Divorce

[Jumper]

 Well after 6 years.. We are filing for divorce.
Things are very very amicable,there are no harsh words,far from it.
 actually we both still love each other very much.
we are both also devasted by this,but feel its in all of our best interest (obviously)

I still have no real idea how i can live without her in my life,and her me,
she says i'm the very best husband ever.in every way...noone can compare.
we have spent endless night crying in each others arms over this and trying to work it out.
.we had set a date to separate, she was going to be moving in with a family friend,
but kept not actually moving out,because neither of us could really  follow thru once we started to pack,
we'd break down, and end up postponing it.
After the decision to divorce/and seperate was final..
we have still always lived as loving husband/wife.. doing all the normal  things married couples do each day and night.
enjoying each others company,and touch, even the day i finally helped her move out (2 weeks ago) 
we were never estranged,, or sleeping in seperate beds, or anything like that.
in fact we found comfort in each others arms.
I understand without knowing us, this this may seem strange,, and why *break up* then?

The devil is in the details, but at this time its still pretty hard for me to go into any real detail  on a public forum.
but its nothing sinister or secretive, it simple isnt one *big thing*,
 but many small things and some large fundamental differences  as well
in a big general way :
two people can be absolutely crazy about each other,
 but not be a good match or truly compatible long term.
 I think we both always knew this, there are and were no surprises..
but in that oft romantic way, believed that  big love can over come anything,.
 and it did for many years.it still could, and we could continue on as before easily enough!!
in fact  its very tempting for both of us. we still see each other daily almost, and always call.
but we both know its unfair to each other long term.. and it is not a realistic view long term.
just before  our recent anniversary we were having a big talk about future plans,,and we are just very different on our views on
family, life and our mutuakl goals on where we see us  in 5 or 10 years,,
 our goals are so different , there isnt a close enough to compromise, though we have been all along.
 we are very different people. always have been. opposites do attract!!!!
we have always been oil and water,, but with that also came big passion and great love as well.
 She is absolutely the best.
We are self filing and she can have anything she wants,and i'll help her anyway i can.
On her side, she doesnt want anything,at all ,we are just keeping our respective vehicles and personal items.
she keeps insisting to come cook /clean, to help me  and my boy  adjust
  (he is very close to her ,only mom he has known , even though it isnt his natural mother)
She calls him each night to say "sweet dreams", and comes sees him after school often.and her big concern is that she can continue to see him in the future (of course she can )

I know forums are based around speculation:
i'd like to put some to rest,i've always been open here.
 maybe i'll even talk her into posting her thoughts as well,but shes never been interested in these forums so i
really doubt she will now, and probably couldn't anyway for some time, it's still far too close to the heart.

In my opinion, our marriage shouldnt be looked at as some  *well another AM/RW marraige  bites the dust*
it was a positive experience for both of us,, and we still love each other.likely always will.

 Nothing about our divorce has much to do with where we met, or what our nationalities are.
I would even suppose statistically, its likely in the same range as most domestic marriages (sad as that is)

It isn't some case of not knowing each other.
We knew very well what each other was like ,and our life goals.
We knew they did not match fully, ,and that looks stupid in hindsight.
We made concious decisions to look past that in light of our feelings for each other.
and knowing that people and life changes over time, maybe love could and should  overcome,
perhaps  our goals paths would shift and merge with time.
We have an age gap,but it certainly isnt an issue in any way.weve never noticed it, people in public certainly wouldnt, and noone that knows us even thinks of it.
Language  was never an issue for us.
Cultural issues did arise,,and caused some misunderstandings,, but nothing major and often made us laugh.
She hads a hard time adjusting to the USA initially,in fact never wanted to relocate here, prefered i could move there if i had been employable in that culture. That initial 6 months here, was a rough time for us, after that she was fine and became very well adjusted quite quickly when looking back on things.
She has lots of good friends here,and is well established here ,with or without me,which was my goal from before she moved here.

I cant think of a thing i'd do differently, or do over.I value every minute we had ,or will have(as friends) together.
The big obvious thing,  is to make sure someone you marry is aligned on the bigger life goals and is truly compatable long term..
no brainer right?

but i'd have to be honest with myself and say ,, that in life, and love,at least for me,
 it isnt easy to just be "calculating"
i'm not convinced you can do much about who you truly  "love" 
you can make a decision to not get involved further, or to seperate from them in thier,or your own, best interest..
,but you love them regardless.

This is such a case, I love Tanya completely, always will, she feels the same for me.
Since we have such long emotional investment and history together thru thick and thin,.
We are torn ,confused,  but if we look past the romatic ideals , we do intellectually recognize
that long term it is not in either of our best interest, to stay together.

What an incredible heartbreaking and  tough decision this has been on both of us,
even though we both know it to be true.
it would be so much easier if we had fallen out of love ,or been apathetic.
It would be easy to fall back together ,and a struggle not to.
Just because we came to this decision now ,and are perhaps being more realistic,
 doesnt mean we love each other less

 I dont know what anyone can learn from our example,i'm still struggling to learn from it myself.
Even though i know intellectually it to be best,it feels in my heart and soul like the worst decision ever.

I hope my explaination makes sense...
 I've seen other couples in life have a similar situation, and always thought it strange and impossible,,
and wonder how could that be? why they dont just work it out..?
now i'm living it..  and understand somewhat

For her,she is incredibly strong, independent person.
she is charming and intelligent,  and  i know she will be fine,
i'll always be here to help if she needs it.

For myself, I have no idea what any future will bring, i can't look ahead at the moment.
jmy big plan is to just  keep breathing and put one foot in front of the other at this time.
Take care of my boy and limit any emotional damage this could have..
I'm a religious person and feel all things have a purpose.
 

[TwoBitBandit]

Hello AJ,

I first started reading your posts on these forms back in the Planet Love days.  I remember your posts talking about your new marriage like it was yesterday.  I'm sorry to hear about this.  You and Tanya seemed like such a well-matched couple from your stories.

I've made this observation about people expressing something difficult: it's usually best to let them express it and not try to influence their expression, and simply offer a little bit of compassion, listening, and some encouraging words.

In that spirit, be strong and hang in there.

[Shadow]

Hi AJ,

Its kind of a shocker to be honest. You guys seem to love each other even in this time, so for an outsider it is hard to understand why a divorce. Future plans and goals can change, a future is never made.
I wish both of you the best in this time and after, and hopy you will stay the persons you were.

[Zhena]

oh no....

[Rina_G]

Thanks for    sincerity and frankness
and sorry...very sorry
i have no words...

[ScottinCrimea]

AJ, there is so much in your description of my current situation that matches my own that I could have written nearly the very same words.  It's a tough and confusing time.  It seems that in even the most apparently happy marriages there can be underlying issues that eventually surface.  Maybe you can work them out and stay together, and maybe no.  Ultimately it is important that you focus on doing the right thing and let the future decide.

[I/O]

AJ: 

[Law]

Hello AJ.

I am so sorry to hear this. I wish you a full recovery from the injury of mind and heart, brother.

I am right in the middle of planning my second trip, and as I bend and stretch my mind to imagine what kind of future, obstacles and challenges I may face, the one question I keep asking is What is the premiere trait to seek out to find longevity in a relationship where the partners are drastically different?

Could it be Congruent expectations? Commitment? Or is the answer different for each case and circumstance?

I wish you peace and healing.

[viking]

AJ

Shocked is an understatement. I am sorry to hear this. My divorce ( AW) was amicable as well, but still not an easy time. I only hope that your future life unfolds into whatever will make you happy, peaceful  and content.

[Doll]

Guys, what happened? I am reading the OP posts from September about his happy 6th anniversary.

[Vaughn]

AJ and Tanya,

  We will be thinking of both of you at this difficult time. Thank you for sharing in the forum.

Vaughn and Elvira

[tim 360]

AJ, I was kinda shocked to just read your post.  I still recall your posts from the PL days and subsequent posts here and I have always though you were one guy who had his head screwed on properly; which makes your divorce a bit sadder.  I know you have the inner strength, class, and brains to get yourself through all this despite how painful it may be.  Divorce happens--even to the best of people, just take it slow and one day at a time.  Sincerely, Tim360

[AnastassiaAsh]

AJ, i am absolutely shocked!  I can't believe this! I didn't know you guys really, but from what I read here and saw on all of those absolutely beautiful pictures - nothing prompted what's happening now. I am so sorry! How can this be? What kind of differences in the future do you guys have that it is enough to crush your feelings and devotion of 6 years? How come you haven't talked about these things before? This is so sad! 

[Doll]

Kids, moving to a city,purchasing a house, her education.
What?

[IAmZon]

You, AJ?!?!? ( I thought it was another AJ)  I am as surprised as I am sad.

However - and this is a big HOWEVER - it is a fairly tail to believe that things must last forever in order for them to good. I would like to think that true love conquers all, but that is easy to say and hard to live through.  Incompatible long term goals are central to a person's identity.  They can be an unclimbable wall.  I completely understand what you hinted at:  a million little things.  The cumulative affect of those little things can change who we are, and how we are perceived by our spouse too. For love to be worth saving it must make both people better; and bring more joy than regret.

Divorce - ESPECIALLY when there are amicable and loving, are hurricanes wrapped in earthquakes where down is up and up is down.  Give yourself time to land.  Everything ends up for the best

[Blues Fairy]

I'm very shocked and sad to hear your news AJ.  Wish you speedy healing and moving on.  
Still, you guys had 6 wonderful years together, that's worth something!!

[docetae]

I don't know the background process who lead to this decision, but from what i read it seems you still love each other. Take your time.

[GQBlues]

AJ-

When I first got married, Marty told me straight up that if there ever comes a time where I need to consult with someone about marriage and relationship, that I should have you at the top of my list. I enjoyed all of your posts in that lost board many of us met in, and saw you as someone cut from a different cloth.

Your post today only enhanced my opinion of you. You are, and always will be, a very classy guy.

I once fell so much in love with an incredible woman before and had also enjoyed a magical 6 years with her. Unfortunately, my views for the future was drastically different than how she viewed it from her window. So believe me when I say, I know exactly what you're going through.

The very best to all of you!

[Jumper]

Thanks  all..

on the questions-I thought i covered it at least a bit,(or as much as i can at the moment,,its pretty close to me still)
we have always been different and knew that.
I know its is hard to understand for some, certainly from the outside looking in.
Unless you've been thru similar, there is no way to truly comprehend it.
As mentioned - i've seen it in other couples,and never understood before.it seemed simple? if you love each other that much,work it out!!  While i can't say that i fully understand even now, i certainly can relate.

 The various issues are not  something that we dint know,
and of course we have talked about our whole marriage.
But it is easy when you are both crazy about each other, to keep things going even with underlying things
that never get resolved.You live on hope they will.In the reality of routine daily life they are not a problem,and if your live's are filled with someone you love.you both will avoid rocking the boat, instead of breaking it.
 It doesnt mean you are unhappy.


I could go into detail.
what would it help?
would a list of things that we cannot resolve between us after years of loving each other despite them..
help anyone here?

everyone is different.

 The very things i might find an issue needing to be resolved, another person might align perfectly on?
or not be a priority to them.
The same if she made a list?

You can really love someone ..that you are not truly compatible with,..
and in this case two people did so.
it may sound strange to say,,but yes you can be happy together ...
love can conquer many things.

for example:
Today i could call her and go spend the day and night with her, and we'd both be very happy.very!!
True compatibilty is a bit more complex?

We have been ,and would be completely compatible all day!!!
..hanging out,,eating or cooking dinner together ,
 or spending the night together.
in fact we have joked with each other that we would be great at just dating each other.
or buy a duplex and live in separate houses.
but that's not a *family*?

As a  family,long term,, the dynamic changes.
and i dont think a list of the details of where ,we, as a couple,
are not compatible in that sense,
would help  anyone else? they would be different for many people?




doll- yes i can understand some confusion.
and yes posted we had a happy 6th anniversary, because we did!!!
it was actually a perfect evening..with lots of laughs and good times.
and certainly our discussion of seperating occured before that,,but nothing was assured and as all thru our marriage hope has  burned eternal we would work thru things or go on despite them?
every marriage has its ups and downs,,ours is no different.overall it was very happy.she would agree,
as far as discussing our issues on a forum, i've felt no need in the past .as we worked thru them.as most couples do?
if she posted here. ( i think she made two posts years ago?)
she also would never post anything negative,and view that as undermining our marriage or her husband.
this trait of either of us, shouldnt surprise you.
Even after we had agreed seperation was best for all, we had some incredibly happy times together (perhaps bittersweet)
but we made the most of every day..and had some big laughs and actual good times.
My birthday was a couple of  weeks ago,and even though we had decided she would move out after that ,we had a very good time.
so should i post we were unhappy?
post we had a great time today but  big trouble brewing?
seemed to me there was plenty of time to post our troubles, if things dint ultimately work out.





   

[docetae]

Aj, again, I have not an inner view about your couple, but what you describe is more a typical mid relation crisis (big steps..3 years..7 years..) linked to middle age crisis than a pure case of divorce. Let the dust settle down and see what can bring the future for both you.

remember that ideal does not exist and except if you have a 180 degrees view on life, ask yourself if you are not going too fast with paperwork.
Agree together to put them in a drawer, continue to date each other as you told, and look at them after winter. It will be never too late to sign them but it can be too early now. Another thing, I don't know you, but from similar stories I have seen, people who are still enjoying to see each other after a break up have not really broken up.

They just need time.

[Boethius]

I enjoyed reading your posts AJ, although you mostly were "gone" once I started posting here.  I'm very sorry. 

I too, just don't understand.  My husband and I had very different long term goals, so in that sense, we were incompatible.  But we too were/are passionately in love and despite the differences, it can work.  I don't know what your differences are, but in most cases, compromise can overcome obstacles.  I too, am religious, and believe everything happens for a reason, but I also believe we make our own destinies.  My heart really breaks for your son.

Obviously, I can't comment on your situation, but I tend to agree with docetae.  Did you attend counselling?  Sometimes, having an outside person look in on a situation can open new doors of understanding.

Whatever happens, I wish you the best.

[Moonlight]

argh... AJ, I always liked to see your posts and pics, you and your wife looked so happy on pics...
Maybe you just move out and live for a while on your own? Dont divorce if you still love each other...

[tim 360]

AJ,  I am sure you and your wife have wrestled with this and feel you have thought this dilemma through and that your conclusions are correct.  I hate to say it, but as smart of a guy as you are... maybe like most of us--you are locked into the lens of your own imperfect vision in this.  I don't know nor do I want to know the details of your long-term in capabilities but perhaps the two of you in the long view are..."throwing out the baby with the bath water."

You seem to be a great couple with alot going for each other and a whole lotta love.  Something special.  Sounds to me that something very precious here will be lost for each of you and impossible to recapture.  Something that through the years you will look back upon wistfully thinking...maybe if?"

Whether long term or short term few relationships are perfect and most have their own problems, large and small.  We humans do have our problems to work out.  Despite the opposite polarity of your long term relationship needs I think most issues can be worked out by a couple that loves each other.  Most things.  But, if she wants to have 2 more children and you want zero--that can be a dealbreaker no matter how much love is there.

At 6 years of marriage you are in the "7 Year Itch" period which many marriages encounter.  Perhaps before ending your marriage you should talk this over with a wise old friend or have a session or two with a professional or clergy you trust.

My apology for being so long winded here and maybe you have considered and done all of the above.  I hate giving anyone advice and the above are just some thoughts.  Take it slowly, I think you each have alot to lose,   Tim360

[Jumper]

I appreciate the thoughts.
I cannot say that they are off the mark,,or not,
 as noone knows the future,and we may both look back and say ..
that this was the wrong choice.
 However,much like the choice to get married despite differences,
because we felt it would work and was best,
we now choose this path , a much more difficult decision,
but for similar reasons ,because we feel ultimately it is best.   
We have sought outside counseling, it helps.

We do both want children,its the center of a family to us.
Children and particularly child rearing ,
are some key issues and very fundemental differences.
In this my wife makes no compromise, and
will not.period.i have compromised in this subject all along.
It is not the only issue, but a good example of one that can be
huge source of incompatibilty in a long term family situation.

To be fair, she has compromised on many things.
just not this one.
I dont want to portray her as a totally uncompromising person in general,but is strangely unyielding in this subject.

I suppose it is natural in a forum setting , to seek answers and wonder "why"

vague general answers dont really work..
There isnt always a single answer,,but examples of situations?
 
One reason we have never had children is my wifes thoughts on child raising, we diffinantly do not agree ,at all.
She will emphatically state that if we have children , ,she wil raise it as she sees fit, if i dont happen to agree with a decision or overall thoughts on "how" to hande something, then it will be done with  no input from me.To me this is considering any child *hers*,, not "ours" ,
and it is one of the deal breakers.
Its largely due to immaturity on this issue.,
and I did think we could work thru it.
No amount of discussion or counseling has changed this basic mind set.and it includes our boy.
She has been a good mother, but we dont agree on many aspects.,
one of the difficulties has been she will not include me in any needed dicipline..(if or when) If it was our child together this would be frustrating at best ,and need resolved,as its not acceptable.
in the current case it is my son.
so the roles should really be for her to certainly have input ,but  me the actual decision in anything of substance..
  she has never accepted this . it has been all or nothing.
or a big dispute,always.
By anyones account (even my wifes)  I'm a very good father.
Afterall i raised my son myself untill she came into our lives.
nd i have done all i could to let her fill whatever role she felt was proper as new wife/mother.
Its really sad that its even an issue, as anyone that meets our son would say our boy is a fine example of a young man,and he is welcome to play at thier house at anytime and a good example for thier kids.He isnt perfect for sure, a typical boy.

At most times there is nothing to bring this matter up,
and perhaps we somewhat avoided it on purpose.subconciously or conciously?
but our home dynamic is greatly effected by this at times,
and our future as far as a family with hoping for more children 
even more so.

I said i wouldnt get into details
 and regretfully perhaps have.

one reason is details only beg for further evaluation,
and without living in our home, no written words would
 give anyone here a good image of the family dynamic.
This is not a case where we did not try to work very hard it,
we have been for years.or more accurately i have been,and hoping
for some change in thoughts from her with time.
but because of her absolute inflexibilty  on the subject it is a large reason we have held back from having children.
so a very very large issue.
and looking back its one thats been existing all along,,but we did not realize the depth of it at the beggining.

[Misha]

She will emphatically state that if we have children , ,she wil raise it as she sees fit, if i dont happen to agree with a decision or overall thoughts on "how" to hande something, then it will be done with  no input from me.To me this is considering any child *hers*,, not "ours" , and it is one of the deal breakers.

AJ, I am really sorry for what you are going through at the moment. However, I would agree with you that such irreconcilable differences when it comes to raising a child would make any marriage impossible to maintain over the long-term. Clearly, you see marriage, including the raising of children, as a partnership, and she does not. Under these circumstances, I understand why both of you may be right in wanting to move on. I can imagine how hard this must be for you at the moment.