Sacrifices the ladies make to be with us.

[Sculpto]

It was brought to my attention, again, that our fiances make extra-ordinary sacrifices to be with us and as such we are obligated to make an extra-ordinary effort to support them emotionally and well as materially. 

They quit jobs, leave family and friends. learn new languages, begin new careers.. etc etc etc...

[mies]

Of course.
Frankly speaking - I rather not make sacrifices and thus do not request/expect full maintenance and support from men in return. I'm sure any person will eventually feel tired of being obliged to "make up for my sacrifices". But in some cases sacrifices are unavoidable. Then - there should be balance of mutual sacrifices. Not only woman's.

Also, I would slightly shift the stress from "obliged to compensate for sacrifices" to "both parties voluntarily choose to cooperate". Such: woman chooses to sacrifice certain things because (a) she wants to be with this particular man and (b) it is infeasible for this particular man to move to live in Russia. That is - of course he can, but then woman will be a sole provider, man would have to do all housework and be at home with kids, and in many cases woman don't want to do it (because they want to contribute more in-kind to family rather than financially), or they are unable to earn enough to support herself and a man.

While man, in his turn, chooses to support woman emotionally and materially not as a compensation for her sacrifice, but rather as an act of free will - because he wants to be with this woman.
Women's requests for "compensation" and reminders of what men are obliged to do happen when men are too self-centered and egoistic, taking all sacrifices from woman for granted. Such men usually talk of what they want to see/take from woman, and rarely show any willingness to give (in emotional and material sense). They act like all women owe them something for the right to have access to men's precious bodies/hearts/souls/homes and so on. Then some women decide they should tell such man to change their behavior.
As for me - I always avoided such men. I am not going to waste my time "educating" and enlightening self-loving men. If man does not understand those simple things - then we won't be a good match for me for sure.

[SMS60]

Yep

But Im worth it.   

Come to think of it I have sacrificed a lot also but on my own free will.

[mies]

There is a piece of wisdom (don't remember who's the author):
"we tend to think the people who truly love us - do so because we are so wonderful and well worth it (or maybe even deserve more/better partner), but in reality they love us because they are so wonderful and often we don't deserve them"

[groovlstk]

It was brought to my attention, again, that our fiances make extra-ordinary sacrifices to be with us and as such we are obligated to make an extra-ordinary effort to support them emotionally and well as materially. 

They quit jobs, leave family and friends. learn new languages, begin new careers.. etc etc etc...

I don't think anyone who has gone through with this will disagree with your statement, but in my experience the man's adjustments are often shrugged off despite the fact that he also has to make huge sacrifices. There needs to be understanding and patience on both sides, and you need to transition away from this 24/7 support/accomodation thing as soon as possible or run the risk of it defining your relationship.

[SMS60]

but in reality they love us because they are so wonderful and often we don't deserve them"

To put this in clearer words is they love themselves or they are happy with who they are.

This notion of thinking in terms of being obligated in a relationships is self defeating. Its a time bomb which will explode eventually. You are doomed going down that road.

[Blues Fairy]

Also, I would slightly shift the stress from "obliged to compensate for sacrifices" to "both parties voluntarily choose to cooperate".

Agree 100%.  I don't like the talk of sacrifices and never allowed myself to remind my husband of how much I had to leave behind.  After all, it was my own free choice and I made it in full awareness of the implications.  Needless to say, the gains are definitely worth the losses, so no complaints.

[mies]

To put this in clearer words is they love themselves or they are happy with who they are.

This notion of thinking in terms of being obligated in a relationships is self defeating. Its a time bomb which will explode eventually. You are doomed going down that road.

yes on both statements.

on first part - it's natural for one to love themselves, yet it is not as natural for others to love him/her. Hence love of others should not be taken for granted.

[Sculpto]

Mies.. excellent reply. 

I don't think of it in terms of a "deal" so much as a responsibility.  A responsibility taken willingly but not to be forgotten.  And also, a much greater responsibility when crossing oceans is not part of the equation.

Some men, as have already shown their colors, think they are doing women a favor.. because they are such great guys and carry a blue passport.. seems to me that is nothing more than a recipe for marital failure. 

[Sculpto]

I don't think anyone who has gone through with this will disagree with your statement, but in my experience the man's adjustments are often shrugged off despite the fact that he also has to make huge sacrifices. There needs to be understanding and patience on both sides, and you need to transition away from this 24/7 support/accomodation thing as soon as possible or run the risk of it defining your relationship.

Also an excellent post Groov.  Basically the reason i brought it up has to do with my experience with the French woman several years ago.  During her adjustment period I was accused by her and her AW friends of not being supportive enough.  I thought, WTF, I am giving her a nice apartment, she doesn't have to work and I spend most of my free time with her.. what more can I do?  But, the reality was there was an emotional component to the support that I never practiced.  I dictated, she complied, until she was miserable and then she acted out.  BTW.. I started thinking about that because my Mom ran into her last month.. at the therapists office, with her new husband, heading in for couples therapy.  Talk about awkward for my Mom! 

I agree that the sacrifices and adjustment the men make should not be ignored, but, the consequences of a failed relationship are far less serious for the man and therefore, IMO, it is on us to go above and beyond what we think is sufficient and make the extra-ordinary effort.

[Jumper]

Of course.
Frankly speaking - I rather not make sacrifices and thus do not request/expect full maintenance and support from men in return. I'm sure any person will eventually feel tired of being obliged to "make up for my sacrifices". But in some cases sacrifices are unavoidable. Then - there should be balance of mutual sacrifices. Not only woman's.

Also, I would slightly shift the stress from "obliged to compensate for sacrifices" to "both parties voluntarily choose to cooperate". Such: woman chooses to sacrifice certain things because (a) she wants to be with this particular man and (b) it is infeasible for this particular man to move to live in Russia. That is - of course he can, but then woman will be a sole provider, man would have to do all housework and be at home with kids, and in many cases woman don't want to do it (because they want to contribute more in-kind to family rather than financially), or they are unable to earn enough to support herself and a man.

While man, in his turn, chooses to support woman emotionally and materially not as a compensation for her sacrifice, but rather as an act of free will - because he wants to be with this woman.
Women's requests for "compensation" and reminders of what men are obliged to do happen when men are too self-centered and egoistic, taking all sacrifices from woman for granted. Such men usually talk of what they want to see/take from woman, and rarely show any willingness to give (in emotional and material sense). They act like all women owe them something for the right to have access to men's precious bodies/hearts/souls/homes and so on. Then some women decide they should tell such man to change their behavior.
As for me - I always avoided such men. I am not going to waste my time "educating" and enlightening self-loving men. If man does not understand those simple things - then we won't be a good match for me for sure.

well said..
and is true from both sides.