Fed Up

[jdk1963]

I am tired of having my intentions and sincerity questioned.  I got on the plane and met her and everything seems to be going well.  Then she questions my sincerity after I've gone to Moscow when I should have probably done other things then fly half way around the world.  Now because I've gone with a male friend to a club, simply because they have a $3 buffet on Fridays, she has gone off the deep end.  This coming from someone who went nuts because I had not taken down my profile 6 weeks after we met yet still maintains one at Bride.ru.

I'm through.  I do not need this and I doubt she is worth it.  I do not need another relationship where everything I do is wrong.

[dogspot]

(Venting)  :noidea:

I think most of us have been through this in one way or another. How you proceed is something that only you know the answer to. But let me ask you, for curiosities sake, how many times have you visited her? How much time have you spent together? Is there already commitment involved?

Truthfully, this story sounds all too familiar to me. I once had a girlfriend, a Russian lady from Moscow, who was very controlling and very jealous (although she would never admit to this, of course). We had so much fun together. She was gorgeous and I enjoyed being around her ALMOST all the time. This was great for the first couple visits. But when I realized she was going to require my attention ALL THE TIME for the rest of my life, I questioned my ability to live like this, and ultimately ended the relationship.

[jdk1963]

Semi-committed,  I've seen her 2 times for about a month, we spent all of my time in Moscow together, and we talk every day.

I am just fed up with being told not to question her motives yet being accused of wrong-doing at every opportunity.  I have a skype phone with a skype-in number.  I am logged in all of the time.  It took several emails and photos to convince her that I was not chatting with other women.  Yes I took a photo of the phone and the screen. 

I am tired of this process being so one sided.  Women seem to have it in their heads that they don't need to win us over and they behave that way. 

[Ade]

Semi-committed,  I've seen her 2 times for about a month, we spent all of my time in Moscow together, and we talk every day.

I am just fed up with being told not to question her motives yet being accused of wrong-doing at every opportunity.  I have a skype phone with a skype-in number.  I am logged in all of the time.  It took several emails and photos to convince her that I was not chatting with other women.  Yes I took a photo of the phone and the screen. 

I am tired of this process being so one sided.  Women seem to have it in their heads that they don't need to win us over and they behave that way. 

So I guess we have the context of that translation now. Trust is difficult for some people but it should be a prerequisite for a relationship. Without it, you'll just have a lot of grief. Maybe you can earn her trust over time if you are willing to persevere?

[Shadow]

Why are you telling this to us and not to her ?

[kievstar]

Best to move on and start over. 

[SMS60]

I am just fed up with being told not to question her motives yet being accused of wrong-doing at every opportunity.

Is she telling you or yourself or someone else?

JDK

Women are way more insecure than men by nature. Part of the gender differences. Unless you can put yourself in their shoes you wont realize how much.

She probally has trust issues from the past. She does not know how she is coming across in the dating scene. She is trying to protect herself but does not realize she is doing more harm than good. Its like a holding a wet bar of soap. The harder you squeze the more likely you will drop it. She is doing this with your relationship. She trying to keep control of it by holding on tight.

If you wanted to make sure you are making the right choice by giving up......then dont react........ Let all this roll off your back like water. Do whatever you can to steer away from the subject in a pleasant way. Dont be bringing up all this stuff. Talk about other things......not this drama stuff.

What usually happens is she will keep bringing it up and will eventually run from the situation which is giving her these terrible feelings (self defeating actions....survival for some). You stay calm and cool and allow her to break it off. If she has major trust issues her own actions will do herself in. Sad but true.

[I/O]

Two ways of looking at this FWIW, and yes, I have been there. A lady I was with (Not Russian or FSU) for considerable time (much more than a couple of month long vacations together) was near crazy in this way. Everything and I mean everything was challenged. I eventually ended the relationship and upon later reflection asked myself what did I do to cause  / deserve this. The answer was, quite a lot actually. Nothing tangible, it was my intent or lack thereof and if my suspicions are correct, she was sensing that. She was absolutely committed to the future together and I was still basically trying to make up my mind. I suspect that imbalance eroded her confidence to the point of constant panic with the need for reassurance which obviously, although we were very close, I was failing to provide.

OTH, Mrs I/O although being very much a woman (The boys hear me) in this respect was and is very different. Casual and relaxed in that way is an understatement. She was very easygoing from the first letters etc in that way and has never changed. That said, as am I with her. Why? Did we subconsciously set boundaries with each other right from the start? Did we just know? (as they always told us as kids we would). Don't know, the armchair psychologists present will give us some insight perhaps. From the first letters, we both maintained our respective social lives and yet, it was always clear (unsaid) we were both committed to working towards a meeting and both would have sidelined any social event, date or other commitment had the other called up and said I will be there tomorrow for our first meeting.

I can't explain any of the above other than to say perhaps it was me. Does a woman look to the man so much to lead in this respect? Is it just how the cards fall? Don't know but what I do know is if the two of you or even one of you is feeling like "out" then out is where you should be. Any relationship, more so an international relationship and dare I say it, absolutely a relationship with a RW, requires 100% commitment. Less than that and it's a case of get the butter out because you're toast.

Sidetracking slightly, it has been apparent to me few years now that to some extent at least (in our case a large extent) this confidence, trust, respect or whatever can be and often is developed in the letter writing stage. So many people talk of this as international "dating". That's fine for them, but I see it differently. If you track half way around the world for a date or series of dates without any groundwork, it seems an expensive hobby to me with little chance of much benefit. Therefore, I feel, if you get a bit serious about the letter writing stage (letters, chats, phone calls whatever), you can establish at that point whether or not there is going to be that level of trust required to move forward. I suggest it might be worth thinking this through a little before mooning over the next website profile. BTW, I think you know in your own mind this one is history.

[jdk1963]

So I guess we have the context of that translation now. Trust is difficult for some people but it should be a prerequisite for a relationship. Without it, you'll just have a lot of grief. Maybe you can earn her trust over time if you are willing to persevere?

Yes,  I was not sure of the last word from what she wrote.   I've told her many times there are no other women.  How many times do I have to defend myself?  What exactly am I supposed to do to earn her trust?  We're several thousand miles apart and for all I know she's running a mattress rodeo when we're not chatting or talking on the phone.  It's a 2-way street she needs to earn my trust as well.  

I told her before I went out with my friend what I was doing and told her about the night afterward.  If I am guilty of anything it's being a chap bastard and going to a club with an all-you-can-stand $3 buffet instead of going high class with Ronald McDonald.  My friend wanted to hear about Moscow and from our discussion came a question so I asked her.

I may move on but I doubt I'll start over.  I'm really not impressed with the women I've encountered, other than her.  

[SMS60]

Yes,  I was not sure of the last word from what she wrote.   I've told her many times there are no other women.  How many times do I have to defend myself?  What exactly am I supposed to do to earn her trust?  We're several thousand miles apart and for all I know she's running a mattress rodeo when we're not chatting or talking on the phone.  It's a 2-way street she needs to earn my trust as well.  

Dont be jumping into the quicksand pit with her. One of you must stay on solid ground. Let that be you.

[jdk1963]

Is she telling you or yourself or someone else?

JDK

Women are way more insecure than men by nature. Part of the gender differences. Unless you can put yourself in their shoes you wont realize how much.

She probally has trust issues from the past. She does not know how she is coming across in the dating scene. She is trying to protect herself but does not realize she is doing more harm than good. Its like a holding a wet bar of soap. The harder you squeze the more likely you will drop it. She is doing this with your relationship. She trying to keep control of it by holding on tight.

If you wanted to make sure you are making the right choice by giving up......then dont react........ Let all this roll off your back like water. Do whatever you can to steer away from the subject in a pleasant way. Dont be bringing up all this stuff. Talk about other things......not this drama stuff.

What usually happens is she will keep bringing it up and will eventually run from the situation which is giving her these terrible feelings (self defeating actions....survival for some). You stay calm and cool and allow her to break it off. If she has major trust issues her own actions will do herself in. Sad but true.

I have no doubts that she has trust issues.  She's not always bringing things up it is usually something pointless.  I have more than 1 skype contact therefore they must be other women, yes they are Mom, Sister, Daughter.  Yet it was a problem.  After my last trip she claimed I was not serious.  Maybe she is just worried?  

[jdk1963]

Dont be jumping into the quicksand pit with her. One of you must stay on solid ground. Let that be you.

I'm just pointing out that I can make useless accusations too.   At some point you have to accept that you cannot watch your SO 24 hours a day so why invent situations?  It does not do either any good.  The question is, can she accept that?

[Vaughn]

jdk1963 - does your handle indicate your year of birth? Just curious on that one.... regardless, I would have to
move on myself - I sought and found a more peaceful relationship - and we never used Skype, just e-mails, vsits
of course, and phone calls. Neither of us felt like we had to be in close touch constantly.

I may move on but I doubt I'll start over.  I'm really not impressed with the women I've encountered, other than her.

Assuming you mean FSU ladies, how many have you encountered?

[RussianWind]

You have to find out what the real reason of her jealousy is.

She is not confindent about you (think why)
She is not confident about herself (more easy to cure) and she can calm down when you start living together.
She has a pathologic psychological problem and you will enter hell if you start serious relationship.

I am inclined to think that you have 1 or/and 2. After few years on dating sites everybody can become a paranoic.

[Vaughn]

She is not confident about herself (more easy to cure) and she can calm down when you start living together.

RussianWind - you are far more optimistic than me.

[Mars]

Why are you telling this to us and not to her ?

I am always quite mystified by comments such as this that crop up every once in a while on these boards.

There can be hundreds of posts in hundreds of threads where a man or woman is venting here and looking for advice.

Much advice is given without such comments quoted above.  And then, out of no where, the quoted comment is thrown into a particular thread which is no different than hundreds of other threads.

??????????????

[jdk1963]

jdk1963 - does your handle indicate your year of birth? Just curious on that one.... regardless, I would have to
move on myself - I sought and found a more peaceful relationship - and we never used Skype, just e-mails, vsits
of course, and phone calls. Neither of us felt like we had to be in close touch constantly.

Assuming you mean FSU ladies, how many have you encountered?

Yes, I was born in 63.  I've corresponded with a few FSU and had a brief relationship with a Panamanian.  After the Panamanian I was not going to travel until I was sure it was someone I wanted to meet.  She's the first FSU woman who I felt was serious.  

This is the first time I've really been angry about this.  

[RussianWind]

RussianWind - you are far more optimistic than me.

Yes, I am an eternal optimist.
But you didn't read my #3 then. I have a friend who had a relationship with such a pathologically sick man. Horrible.

[boaterguy]

JDK! Sounds like she has her hooks in you! When I 1st met my wife she was adamantly not jealous. She didn't start acting jealous or insecure until I was on my last trip to be with her for her K1 interview. Our 1st year together after we were married she was very insecure(I paid my dues!). It has slowly subsided over the years and only once in a blue moon does she have an insecure flareup as I like to call it.

If you want a relationship with an FSU woman that is truly a real relationship....insecurity and jealousy is something you will have to tolerate and have patience with. I'm sure there are some that are not,but think about what a lady has to go through,the gamble she is taking(on you), and perhaps you will understand. If you do understand and have the patience...you will never regret it!

[Ade]

Yes,  I was not sure of the last word from what she wrote.   I've told her many times there are no other women.  How many times do I have to defend myself?  What exactly am I supposed to do to earn her trust?  We're several thousand miles apart and for all I know she's running a mattress rodeo when we're not chatting or talking on the phone.  It's a 2-way street she needs to earn my trust as well.  

I told her before I went out with my friend what I was doing and told her about the night afterward.  If I am guilty of anything it's being a chap bastard and going to a club with an all-you-can-stand $3 buffet instead of going high class with Ronald McDonald.  My friend wanted to hear about Moscow and from our discussion came a question so I asked her.

I may move on but I doubt I'll start over.  I'm really not impressed with the women I've encountered, other than her.  

Some women are inherently insecure and with others it's a learned behaviour from previous relationships. There's not much you can do with either except to try to bolster their confidence in you and the relationship. Be open, talk about it, and try to get her to understand that her accusations, even if indirect, can be self fulfilling by pushing you away. If you are lucky she will come around and become confident enough so that the accusations will stop but be prepared for them to resurface if you do anything suspect or if she ever (and I mean ever) catches you lying about anything (and I mean anything); trust can be a hard won thing with women like this and if lost, can be almost impossible to get back.

One thing, if you do decide to go ahead with this, be careful not to hide innocent behaviour in order to prevent any misinterpretations, for instance, going out to a club without her; when she eventually discovers it (and be sure that she will) this type of lying will provoke insecurity as surely as if you were hiding some guilty behaviour and you will be back to square one.

FWIW, I would make my apologies and walk away; but that's because I spent 10 years in a relationship with a woman that was incredibly jealous and paranoid and which eventually drove her to a breakdown and 5 years of psychiatric treatment. I couldn't go through that again for anyone. Of course, your situation is probably far from this and I'm overly sensitive to it.

[JR]

JKD, if she is this way now and you can't tolerate it there is no reason to believe that in ten years she will be any different or that you will somehow come to enjoy it. Find someone else.

[Sculpto]

JKD, if she is this way now and you can't tolerate it there is no reason to believe that in ten years she will be any different or that you will somehow come to enjoy it. Find someone else.

Great advice from self improvement guy.. so JR.. are you saying you haven't changed in the last 10 years?

[jdk1963]

She finally talks and it turns out it was a misunderstanding.  She misunderstood what I wrote and assumed I was not being sincere with her.  This has happened before and it is not a big issue.  The trust issue is from the stories she hears about internet romances.  It does get a little tiresome and hopefully these panic attacks will stop after my next visit.

[JR]

Great advice from self improvement guy.. so JR.. are you saying you haven't changed in the last 10 years?

Exactly the co-dependant response I expect from you Eric. Go find someone to fix

Yes, I have changed and from that I have come to understand change can be quite difficult.  Most people won't change much after the age of 12. So chances a quite good that jkd's lady friend won't manage any significant changes in what he considers her defects.


"hopefully these panic attacks will stop after my next visit"  They won't, they are a part of her as much as your intolerance of them is a part of you. jkd, she is insecure, misunderstanding my ass. This is not the last time you will see this monster rear it's ugly head. Even after (and maybe more, when she feels there is more at stake) your next visit she will be insecure. Her insecurities have nothing to do with you or how many trips you make. Her excuse about internet romances are just that, excuses handed to you now to calm you down. She will be back with more 'trust issues', keep your eyes open for them.

[Gator]

She finally talks and it turns out it was a misunderstanding.  She misunderstood what I wrote and assumed I was not being sincere with her.

Misunderstandings happen all the time.  My wife and I had a couple of big ones even though she spoke excellent English and had a reasonable understanding of Western culture.  However, our misunderstandings did not last long (an hour or so) because we gave each other the benefit of any doubt and did not want anything to fester.

In contrast I was once involved with a RW who spoke little English, would not give me the benefit of a doubt, and would withdraw for a day or so.  Life with her would have been unbearable.  The idiom "walking on eggshells" probably originated from her first man.

This has happened before and it is not a big issue. 

It sure did sound like a big issue.  How did you say it?  "I'm through."   RW require your abundant patience, especially in the beginning.

So if it has happened before, how did you miss it this time?