Why are some members on here, arrogant?

[Handycam72]

quote author=Turboguy link=topic=10606.msg208273#msg208273 date=1258453018]
a room full of inexperienced guys (you can substitute the word "suckers").
[/quote]

So all new people to this, are "suckers" in your eyes?

Why is it, that a certain few long term members, who have written 1000's of posts and all tend to be married for a good few years are so belittling and arrogant towards those that are new here? Just because you have been there done that, and now got your prize, does that make you somehow superior to those who are still searching? Were you so perfect when you started that you knew everything there is to know?

People will make mistakes along the way, some will make huge mistakes, I am one of them and I am not afraid to admit it. But it does not mean people should be beaten with a huge bat just because they made the kind of mistake that you have seen a thousand times. All you are going to do is make new people to this think twice about asking what to them is an important question or telling of some their experiences.

Debate is expected and people will have different views and opinions on subjects, disagreements will happen. That is to be expected of course. But come on, too ridicule and chastise someone for having less experience than you!! Thats just arrogance, in fact I will call it being Smug or having delusions of grandeur.

[Turboguy]

Hello Handycam,

I apologize for how you took my statement.   They sure are not suckers in my eyes but in the eyes of a scammer someone on thier first trip to the FSU can often be a little nieve and gullable.  I would never consider them anything but serious guys who really want to meet a good woman. 

Handycam, once I found RWD and was able to compare notes and ideas with a lot of other guys I realized how stupid I had really been with some of my thinking and ideas.  When the only thing you have to go by is the things you read on a agency website promoting thier $ 4000.00 tours you don't really have a lot of idea what to expect.

When I was referring to "suckers" I wasn't saying I was the smart one in a room full of gullible suckers.  I was as much a sucker as the rest and perhaps more.

A quick rundown of the ladies I met on my three big agency tours.   The first to Kiev and Moscow left me with the thought that I had found a wonderful and beautiful 38 year old woman.   I did wonder why she was at a social in Moscow when she was from a city hundreds of miles away in Ukriane that had their own socials.   What I concluded in the communications after was that she was a professional fiancee and  went to socials all over and had a string of fiances all sending her money for English classes and other things.   I dumped her and went on another social.   The next time was the Moscow and St Petersburg.  I met another woman that I thought was beautiful and wonderful and made a trip to visit her.   In a 5 day visit I spent over $ 3000 on the ground not including my hotel.   I figure she scammed me for about $ 1500.00.   I dropped her and went on another tour.   Kiev, Vinittsa and Moscow the next time.  On the tour one lady from Vinitsa scammed me for a few hundred and the follow up trip to see a lady from near Kiev had her shopping for $ 500.00 boots in less than an hour after we met after spending 20 minutes together during the social.   No one was a bigger sucker than me Handy.  That was the end of my big agency tours and 3 months after the last tour I found RWD or rather Dan found me.   Nothing ever helped me more. 

Handy, I have a lot of good freinds I made on those tours and I have nothing but respect and admiration for them.  I am sorry you felt that I considered them suckers but for a skillful scam artist we all were. 

[tfcrew]

I think if someone is gullible, they will be so crossing the street, or the country, or an ocean.
 A naive dweeb dufus chump is going to be one anywhere.
Just stay out of the wrong places.

Also, it is sometimes easy to tell if a new poster is sincere or not.
And they could get a razz.

[Turboguy]

Yesterday was a bad day.  I am accused in one thread of being a high roller and in another of being arrogant.   Those are the last two words I would ever use to describe myself.

I do think that sometimes people become more arrogant or direct or something like that the longer they are on RWD.   I think it is possible that when someone is new they sympathize more with newbies who have much to learn and can easily do things they will regret later and the longer they post on RWD the more of a feeling they get that they are beating their head against the wall unnecessarily and trying to help people who may have a tendency to want to learn by making their own mistakes.  I think in some cases it is the stage before they find another passtime.  I can recall seeing a number of old timers who seemed to become less patient with time and then drifted off seldom to be heard from again.  Hopefully I can still relate and sympathize with a newbie and am a ways away from the drifting off into never-never land stage.

[I/O]

Yesterday was a bad day.  I am accused in one thread of being a high roller and in another of being arrogant.

I keep telling you these age gap marriages have "issues". Life changing issues.

[KenC]

quote author=Turboguy link=topic=10606.msg208273#msg208273 date=1258453018]
a room full of inexperienced guys (you can substitute the word "suckers").


So all new people to this, are "suckers" in your eyes?

Why is it, that a certain few long term members, who have written 1000's of posts and all tend to be married for a good few years are so belittling and arrogant towards those that are new here? Just because you have been there done that, and now got your prize, does that make you somehow superior to those who are still searching? Were you so perfect when you started that you knew everything there is to know?

People will make mistakes along the way, some will make huge mistakes, I am one of them and I am not afraid to admit it. But it does not mean people should be beaten with a huge bat just because they made the kind of mistake that you have seen a thousand times. All you are going to do is make new people to this think twice about asking what to them is an important question or telling of some their experiences.

Debate is expected and people will have different views and opinions on subjects, disagreements will happen. That is to be expected of course. But come on, too ridicule and chastise someone for having less experience than you!! Thats just arrogance, in fact I will call it being Smug or having delusions of grandeur.

Handycam,
You may be the single worst judge of character to come to RWD in a long long time.  Your questions and concerns are expected, but your target of Turboguy is as far off the mark as anyone could be.  TG is well known here as one of the "rah rah" guys.  In fact he may even be their leader.  He is a guy that gives constant positive reinforcement even when their is none to be found.  He gives everyone the benefit of the doubt and will hand on to the slimest of possible fairy tale endings.  That being said, your acqusations are misplaced in his direction.

Now if you had directed your comments toward me, then you might have much more credibility.  So let me address your OP as if it were me that was the target.

My comments toward you in your pro-dater thread were harsh and direct.  The girl you spent so much time and money on in the fsu was not a sincere girl by any means.  But her actions toward you were VERY TRANSPARENT and only a complete fool would not have caught on to her tactics immediately.  It took you what?  A week? And then some time after you returned home?  You are incredibly naive or lacking in any skill to read people.  RW are NOT for you.  You will be eaten alive.  The girl that just "ate you up" was a stumbling bumbling and terribly inept scammer and yet you fell for her BS hook line and sinker.  God help you if you ever get hooked up with a real pro.

The part that irritates me personally is that much of the fault for your terrible trip falls on YOUR shoulders and not necessarily hers.  You come here and report this bad bad girl when it is apparent that you are a sucker waiting to be had.  In fact this girl MAY not have been all that bad, but it was just too easy to take advantage of you that she could not resist.  (Kind of like finding a wallet full of money on the sidewalk)

You are a grown ass man, start taking responsibility for your own actions before you start blaming the big bad teenager that "took" you.
KenC

[BC]

I've always held the stance that if anyone says something that irks and rubs your hair backwards, it's probably something you should take a closer look at.

[KenC]

I've always held the stance that if anyone says something that irks and rubs your hair backwards, it's probably something you should take a closer look at.

And I did, BC. 

Attempting to develop a serious international relationship is not for beginners or the faint of heart. I am always taken a back by the neophytes that fail because of their own shortcomings and yet manage to blame it on everyone and everything BUT themselves.
KenC

[Gator]

Handycam,

Good speech, except for misreading TG.

KenC is one crusty SOB when he sees something he does not like, yet he is almost always right.  Believe it or not, he is a choir boy compared to some others from the past.

Many of us feel that if something such as KenC’s style of giving advice upsets a man, his skin may not be thick enough nor his patience large enough nor his wisdom deep enough to survive RW.    A reasonable man would study all advice, as difficult it may seem, and then make a decision.  Advice should be ignored only if it is deemed dead wrong, not if it is harsh.

Unlike KenC, I did not equate your posts as whining but rather as learning from your experiences.   IMO you should continue to think about romancing RW.  Yet, you do need to make some changes if you decide to try again.  I see two primary changes:

1.  What was most lacking in your meeting with your pro-dater was the strength to take charge.   Red flags were flying and alarm bells were surely going off, yet you did little to stop her deceptive plan and change the direction.  Most RW respect men who take charge, provided the man is correct.  RW do not want a man-child, a girly man.  You need to think about that.  I don’t know the answer for your case and neither does KenC.

2.  You seem intellectual, and I doubt your pro-dater was intellectual.  So even if she had not fleeced you, it would not have been a match.  You would have wasted a week and maybe still half as much money.   If you do decide to try again, search for a woman of your intellectual bent.  Hints: she will probably be older than your pro-dater girl, will have something tangible to show for it, and will not have bikini photos.  I suggest that you spend a long time in correspondence to explore this point of compatibility.

Good luck. 

[ScottinCrimea]

KenC,  Why don't you write what you REALLY think?   

[Enot]

Yes Turboguy is one of the better memebers here but their are a few members that are definetly arrogant and they think they know it all.

This arrogance will continue because the admins and mods don't care.  They don't even step in when someone is being verbally attacked.  You have to have thick skin to stick around here for very long.

Best of luck!

[BillyB]

I've always held the stance that if anyone says something that irks and rubs your hair backwards, it's probably something you should take a closer look at.

Then take a close look at this BC "F-U!!" Just kidding of course. I'm in a good mood for fun today.

[Vaughn]

This arrogance will continue because the admins and mods don't care.

Enot, pass me a hankie...

Admin and mods are not able to monitor each and every thread/post 24/7.... if something really irks a member,
he/she has the ability to bring it to attention, and privately if need be. With the tough delivery by a few members
here, a few feelings are bound to get hurt - a small price to pay for saving another member a walletful of bills,
wasted months or immeasureable heartache.

Should a situation degenerate beyond your threshold of tolerance, and nobody seems to "care", by all means,
register your discomfort with the mod listed in that particular section.

[Enot]

I have brought to the attention of mods and administartors in the past many times and they do nothing about it.  This is how I know they don't care and the arrogancts and attacks will continue.

[Vaughn]

Enot, I personally don't enjoy being the target of belittlement as much as the next member. We all
have the option to:

1) Place the recurring offender on "ignore"
2) Take what substance there was offered and as BC implied above, self-inventory
3) Decide who we like and don't like, and to
4) Keep moving on

I was called a "twit" recently by a member I'm not exactly fond of - but whose contributions
do have merit, backed by experience. So do I tuck tail, hurl darts back, or what? No, to all
of these. I brush it aside and focus on what interests me.

There is another option I failed to mention - CTA, aka Clear The Air. It's a seldomly frequented
section where you and the offender can do just that - and hopefully get it behind you.

[Enot]

All good ways of "making peace" Vaugh but the fact still remains that there will be arrogant members and members that attack other members because of poor moderation and administration.

[Vaughn]

All good ways of "making peace" Vaugh but the fact still remains that there will be arrogant members and members that attack other members because of poor moderation and administration.

Enot, this clearly bothers you - and believe me when I say I do understand where you're
coming from. The existence of arrogant members and attacking members on any discussion
board typically reflects a cross-section of folks we find in everyday real life. If you elect to
attribute their existence solely to non-action by Admin and/or mods, you're sadly mistaken.

Please PM me personally the next time one of the beasts rears his/her head. Maybe together
we can bring it to a halt - or figure out why this issue bugs you so much. The more productive
course, IMHO, being the latter -

[Enot]

Thanks but no thanks Vaugh.  I will deal with it my way, with the person or mods/admins.

[Admin]

Thanks but no thanks Vaugh.  I will deal with it my way, with the person or mods/admins.

Enot,

Out of curiosity, exactly how to you plan to "deal with it in my [your] way"?

I just went back through my PM's to see what you may be upset about, and I found that Mod7 slapped a warning on you more than a year ago (appropriately) - and earlier in this year you had a tiff with a member I later asked to be a moderator. As far as I can tell, that is the entire extent of RWD staff interaction with you.

I happen to not agree with you about the admins/mods here at RWD - but more to the point, nothing is going to change on the basis of your public whining. I also do not plan to allow RWD to be a platform for your whining about the staff. Given that, it seems your choice is clear. Stop whining and participate constructively - or find another venue.

- Dan

[ECOCKS]

Not really much point in continued complaining, it's been commented on before.

The people who tire of the personal attacks and needless personal insults will move on or cut back their posting to where they are no longer bothered by it. Those who enjoy those things will remain and thrive on it.

[Turboguy]

Personally I think there is a fine line between keeping things civil and infringing on people right to express their opinion in their efforts to help someone.

KenC is direct in how he expresses his ideas.   That is KenC.  He also has a pretty good track record for good advice even though it may sting a little.  I am sure the moderators would be capable of riding herd with an iron fist and deleting anything that was even minutely negative and that would keep those who are making a big mistake in their search from getting good advice.

I have no doubts there are those who never post out of fear or who leave RWD because of the hostility they imagine here.   On the other hand when a heated discussion gets ramped up I, like many, find myself checking in more often than usual because it does make things more interesting.   I have a feeling if we had totally stringent moderation we would lose tons of members from boredom. 

Sometimes I think RWD is a bit like an on line soap opera that you can participate in but one way or the other I think Dan and the moderators do a great job and keep things the way they should be. 

[Enot]

Enot,

Out of curiosity, exactly how to you plan to "deal with it in my [your] way"?

As I have in the past, by notifying mods and chatting with members.  But I now see you don't what to hear about problems with members attacking and such because you think it is whinning.  This is bad administration on your part.  This place is just one big "good ole boy' network where many newbooies do not feel welcome.

I just went back through my PM's to see what you may be upset about, and I found that Mod7 slapped a warning on you more than a year ago (appropriately) - and earlier in this year you had a tiff with a member I later asked to be a moderator. As far as I can tell, that is the entire extent of RWD staff interaction with you.

You are wrong about this.  I've been attacked many times, reported it, and nothing was done.

I happen to not agree with you about the admins/mods here at RWD - but more to the point, nothing is going to change on the basis of your public whining. I also do not plan to allow RWD to be a platform for your whining about the staff. Given that, it seems your choice is clear. Stop whining and participate constructively - or find another venue.

- Dan

Well that's your opinion and now I know nothing will change your mind set about everything being wonderful here.  This place has a good ole boy network and it appears you're the head cowboy.  I'm sure many other new members feel the same way I do, about the attacks and bad moderating because nothing is ever done.  That's why I have the opinion of this place having bad moderation.  Yes I know, it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it ... or maybe not here since I'm not a good ole boy.

[I/O]

Enot: If you are who I think you are, history (elsewhere and here) says nobody gives a flying f**k what you think. If you're not who I think you are (Thinking $8K rings here) then just put this down to another of those arrogant posts you won't report because nothing will be done about it. BTW, I've long since been excommunicated from the GOB club/s.

[Enot]

Another member thinks this place has a good ole boys (GOB) club.  I'm not wrong about this and many other things.

All I'm trying to do here is to make a better place where newbooies and other members can express their opinion without being attacked.  The way things are run around here, it won't happen.  A change is needed.  Let's be helpful not hurtful but if I'm attacked. I will attack back.

[Handycam72]

Turboguy

Please accept my apology, I used your quote more as an example than directing this topic at you. I think should of made that clear in my OP

Gator

I find your posts always a pleasure to read. The 2 points you raised concerning where I need to change my tactics so to speak, I totally agree with. I have not given up on RW, probably just alittle more cautious now
Also you are totally correct that my Pro-Dating topic was not a case of me "whining" as certain people would say, but a tool for other people to learn from.

KenC

Now Ken, I have to say you were the exact person I had in mind when starting this topic.
I will have to start with your points with regard to my Pro-Dating topic. That was NOT a case of me whining or belly aching as you put it, I wanted to share my experience with others of which I completely messed up so that they could learn from it and avoid such mistakes. Now before you start ranting a raving "Well why you put her details on here and on romancescam, you just a spineless idiot" it is very simple, its called being angry, that anger was with myself, but I directed it at her and wanted revenge. Anger often makes the rational become irrational. Can you honestly say you have never made a mistake, become angry with yourself for making such a mistake, but yet directed that anger at someone or something other than yourself?

Now to your point with regard to me having the worst Judge of Character you have encountered. In regards to the trip to Ukraine and my encounter with the girl, normally I would not even go for a girl of that age, and secondly, as I have mentioned before, I was thinking more with my trouser brain than my normal brain. I can tell you with my hand my heart my judge of character is usually spot on, ninety odd percent of the time, unless of course alcohol is involved then it just goes out the window

Now to my topic here, I noticed you freely admit, well sort of, that you are the arrogant type of person I talk about, but yet, you do not answer the questions I raised with regard to the often aggressive and somewhat arrogant approach and how it appears to newbies on this site or do you care so little that you like the feeling of superiority that being experienced gives you and gain great enjoyment in watching newbies make mistakes.

I have a feeling Ken, that me and you will be locking horns on many subjects in the future