Mistakes in International Dating that only lead to failure

[Ravens9273]

Due to many posts I have seen recently and the all famous age gap discussion I decided to share some information with everyone.

Once upon a time I decide to enter this business. I even went so far as having a clone of Anastasia built. I met and befriended many agencies, ask many questions and learned alot about all the people involved.

I never did follow through with the website. While I still posses all the files for the site I changed my mind on entering this business.

While I was working on the Anastasia Clone I did put up a normal dating site (without agencies) for WM to meet RW.
The purpose of this site was to build clients for the release of agency site.

I never charged for that site nor did I ever make a dime from it. It was not my intentions.
While I changed my mind about the big picture I never took the FREE site down. I have other websites (completely unrelated to RW) and own my own server so the dating site does not cost me anything to keep online.

I am not here to promote that site. In fact I will not say the name of it at all, not even in private PM's. That is not the purpose of this post.

I want to share with everyone what over 3 years (time this website has been online)of observation has shown.

At the present there are several thousand WM and several thousand RW on the website.

This is a website whee profiles are reviewed before activated. So I see all and with that it is easy to see why many fail on this adventure yet none ever talk about or admit here.

Just like any site mine includes areas for picture, self description, and description of partner they are searching for including age range.

85% of Men are between the ages of 40 to 65 years of age.
Did you know 95% of those Men start the age at 18 of the lady they are looking for? FACT
Yet most list the max age at 15 to 20 years younger then themselves (40 year olds will still go to 30 however 50+ in age rarely go above the age of 35.

We have all seen Men complain about GCG and those who use them for Money.
While this is a big complaint for many do you know that 90% of Men use their financial status and Western Passport as a ploy to meet ladies? Most Men spend more time describing what they have then who they are in self description. They even go so far as posting pictures of their cars, house, and other toys in profiles.
It seems ironic that what they complain about the most is also what they use the most to meet ladies.

Another huge mistake I see many make and if anything gives the most details as to the Man's character and what type of person they are.
Most Men when describing the lady they are looking for use words and phrases such as:

Must be beautiful
Must be slim
Good in Bed
Big breasts

This is just an example but what I see far far too often. No where do they describe the real person they want to meet but are more concerned on the physical beauty, and sexual habits of the ladies rather then the type of person the lady is.
What the Men who post this do not realize is they are already showing a lack of respect for Women. They show they are not looking for compatibility but a trophy wife or sex toy.
Women are looking for someone they are compatible with. Someone who shows they care and respects them. Those simple things go along way and without them you will not succeed.


Now on the other side It is very rare a lady will list looking for a Man over 10 years her senior. The exception usually applies to Women over 40 who will list a higher age range. The 18 to 20 year old ladies (which is also rare to see since this is not an agency site) hardly go over the age of 25. A Very few will list up to 30 but not over.

Sites like Anastasia or HRB could not survive with accurate age ranges the lady seeks considering they thrive on 18-22 year olds and their main customers are over 40.

The Men I see who succeed are those who are realistic in their search. They are also the Men who are looking for someone compatible with them and not just a pretty face. While many say they want someone compatible they in truth look for someone much younger and beautiful and compatibility is the last of their concerns.

While some here may want to argue these points I am actually showing the facts of 3 years and thousands of Men. These facts are the things most think are hidden to only the ladies to see in their profiles and ones many will not admit to others.

In conclusion if you are one of the above as described this journey is a waste for you to even begin. Until you change your thinking process you will only see failure in your future.

For the rest of you I thought maybe these truth you would find interesting to learn. It sure does explain alot of the people we see coming in here from time to time.

[Gylden]

This is IMO the most valuable material ever written on any of the forums, which I have read. Everyone who is seriously looking for a woman from a foreign country should read this post!  Very Interesting!! Thanks for sharing!!

[Ade]

This is IMO the most valuable material ever written on any of the forums, which I have read. Everyone who is seriously looking for a woman from a foreign country should read this post!  Very Interesting!! Thanks for sharing!!

Actually, I'm not sure it's the best thing to coach the clueless, the shallow trophy wife hunters and the sex tourists. It's probably a good thing that a lot of these men are obvious losers.

But, if these guys learn the tricks of the real predators that can mask themselves with pretty profiles then, well, a lot more women will end up disappointed or worse, used. 

[Misha]

The Men I see who succeed are those who are realistic in their search. They are also the Men who are looking for someone compatible with them and not just a pretty face. While many say they want someone compatible they in truth look for someone much younger and beautiful and compatibility is the last of their concerns.

Were you really surprised? Sorry, but it is pretty clear to me that the main driver IMHO of men seeking wives from Russia is youth and looks. If the men were really looking for compatibility, they would be dating the divorcees in their home cities 

[Gylden]

I don't really think the OP's intentions are to coach any predators (but I don't really know what you mean by that anyway) I believe it is meant as some sort of a wake up call for serious men who find themselves tempted to look for a lady based on looks as a priority, who is most likely too young in reality. Anyone who has seen those web sites such as brides.ru or the like, much emphasis is placed on young posing/sexy women and lets face it, it sells!!
Anyway Good wake up call IMO

[I/O]

Must be beautiful
Must be slim
Good in Bed
Big breasts

Yeah? And...........what's wrong with that?  Most of us think it but haven't the balls to say it. Ravens, noble though your scientific study is, without trying to rain too heavily on your parade, you haven't presented anything here that I (and anyone else with normal eyesight) didn't notice within about 30 minutes of being in Russia.

[Gator]

Ravens,

I did not know about your plans.  Someday please tell us why you did not launch the business.

I wonder how much of this is just playing by men who would never have the time or money or courage to go to the FSU.  You mentioned "several thousand WM."  How many got on a plane?  100 maybe. 


That aside, let me join the other indignant posters.  Regarding your findings, they certainly seem believable.   What  most impresses me is not the obvious fact that men seek youth and beauty, but the following:

What the Men who post this do not realize is they are already showing a lack of respect for Women. They show they are not looking for compatibility but a trophy wife or sex toy.

This is exactly why they are not dating AW. 

If the men were really looking for compatibility, they would be dating the divorcees in their home cities 

Misha, you almost have it.  Instead of saying these men are not looking for compatible AW, you should say that AW are not compatible with such men.  In other words, these men have looked at AW, and they have struck out again and again because no AW would put up with this lack of respect for women.   

And now these men look to the FSU.  No wonder I did well with the FSU ladies even though I am a senior.  By comparison with the average bloke, I seem like a fine gentleman.   

[XMan]

"If the men were really looking for compatibility, they would be dating the divorcees in their home cities"

Apparently you never met any of the divorcees where I have lived. 

[vwrw]

While this is a big complaint for many do you know that 90% of Men use their financial status and Western Passport as a ploy to meet ladies? Most Men spend more time describing what they have then who they are in self description. They even go so far as posting pictures of their cars, house, and other toys in profiles.
It seems ironic that what they complain about the most is also what they use the most to meet ladies.

Another huge mistake...................

If I understood correctly by the phrase - another huge mistake…- you implied that the males’ behavior you described above is a mistake from your standpoint. I disagree with your judgment. There are as many women as their are men who think that material evidence in terms of house, car, and other toys is a more reliable indicator of certain traits and qualities than any self-description. Why should anybody  hide that s/he  was capable of achieving ? Maybe they should do that to provide the losers who are only  able of composing vivid self-description with an equal chance to women’s attention. LOL Believe me, the men who highlight their financial status in their profiles are at least as smart as you are, and they typically understand  that  by doing  what they do they attract a definite type of women.

I think the statement that 90% of men use their financial status to woo women is BS. Because 1. 90% of the men in the search for a bride abroad do not have such a financial status which might be used embellish them; 2. if your number was true than 9 of 10 contesters for my attention would had used their financial status but they did not. I had encountered only three guys who highlighted their financial status. Yes, they wanted slimness and beauty in  women in addition to loyalty, intellectual skills and a sense of humor. I can see nothing wrong with that. Few men search for ugly and fat.

How do you know what the men who use their financial status to woo women complain about?

[Mars]

I agree almost completely with what VWRW wrote.

In addition, I have these comments.

1. I agree that men aged 40 and over should not be looking at women starting  at age 18.

2. I do not initially post pics of my house, cars, etc.  But quite honestly I am a little mystified why this is such a No, No.  I have seen women posters (maybe not here, can't remember where) who say bad things about such pictures; such as, the man has all these toys and is just looking for more.  I don't agree with such comments, but they have dissuaded me from posting such pics.  But I really can't see why it is such a turnoff to show the ladies the type of house, etc., that you have.

I agree with VWRW here.  It is easy for a man (or woman) to type glowing things about his character, etc., but such words are subjective and perhaps BS.  But for women who are worried about financial security for their children, etc., what is a better indicator for her:  A guy who tells how  great he is in many terms, or a guy who shows pics of his mansion, yacht, Rolls Royce, etc.  True the pics may be faked, but that will soon be discovered.

3. And like some other respondents; I see nothing wrong in describing the physical attributes desired.  Women get to tell what they want; so men should also.  True, the women's desires always seem more noble; but that's just a fact of life that men and women think differently.  There are plenty of brown nosers who tell the women what they want to know, and castigate men who won't cowtail to what the women want to hear.  No need to beat on the honest men.

4. A man (or woman) can describe in glowing terms all the noble things they are looking for in a mate, but they have absolutely zero chance of verifying any of those subjective concepts before a meeting.

But other, less noble sounding things to the brown nosers, stand a better chance of doing some weeding.

For instance, one dating site (rbrides I think) has a category that asks how frequently you  desire to have sex.  The categories are something like: Several times a day, Once a day, Few times a week, and one that says Sex is not important to me.

Now I think this  is something that should be very important to all men and women who  are looking.  Most men and women certainly know whether they would be compatible with a person desiring sex several times a day or with a person who says Sex is not important to me.

So, I think this whole process could benefit greatly if more questions such as this (not just about sex) but about many things.  May sound very cold and calculating to some; but  would certainly help avoid a lot of wasted effort by both men and women.

5. The OP says that men are really looking for youth, beauty, big breasts, etc., and that compatibility is not really on their minds at all.

Well, I disagree.  The men who state such will really not feel compatible with an old woman, ugly and with AA cups . . . even if she is a Mensa member.



Now let me say that I don't think I do any of the things in my profile, etc., that the OP objects to.  However, I get very tired of the brown nosers who will not be happy until they can get all men to acquire the behavioral characteristics of women.

[wendaaaal]

"If the men were really looking for compatibility, they would be dating the divorcees in their home cities"

Apparently you never met any of the divorcees where I have lived. 

 

[Ravens9273]

VWRW,

No where did I say posting pictures of houses, cars etc... was a mistake.

You edited what I wrote to make it look that way.
The TERM
ANOTHER BIG MISTAKE was in for another matter

You took this term and added.....................
To something else.

What I said about the pictures is the Men who do this are also the first to complain when Women use them for the money etc...
My point was plain and simple. If you do not want someone to use you for money do not use money as a way to lure them in.
No where did I say it was a Mistake to do.

The purpose of my post was showing the realities to all of this.
My site is the real deal. Not the fake agency hype.
On my site the Young beauties do not answer nor respond to the 40, 50, 60 year olds.
On Anastasia, HRB etc... they have to. It is part of the rules to work with them that all letters must be responded to. This is where the fake letter writting and fantasies start.

Now in all honesty a Man can meet and marry a Women on both of these sites. A Women will really write to a Man. It is not all fake. Yet the Women who do write to the Men are in the same league.
These young hotties will write to Men. However the Men these young hotties really write to are also the much younger guys.

The point from what I wrote is that until a person lets reality sink in they will not succeed in this adventure.

Now I am sure most of the Men I mentioned above would not be doing the same thing if trying to date in the USA.
They would not list an 18 year old in their search etc....
It is done in the FSU because of the fantasy played there.

I have had people get married from my website. I found this out by doing a search in google on the domain name. It was listed in forums that a few actually married from the site.
Those people also did none of the above.

While you can disagree with what I posted facts are still facts. I am not making this up.
Look at the married members here at RWD. I have seen just about every married Man here talk about their wives like they are the greatest thing on this earth. These Men truly love their wives. The way they talk about them tells without question they love and respect their wives. Then look at the Men who come here who in a sense can be described with one simple word "PIGS". I have yet to see any of these Men have success. They are the ones who come here and complain more then any others. They are the ones who have taken multiple trips and wasted tons of money for nothing.

There is a difference between a PIG and a MAN. The Men succeed on this journey. The PIGS will always fail.
This is what I pointed out that the realities of my website had shown.
Respect goes along way especially when we are talking marriage and I mean a real marriage in this reguard. Not one with both or one of the individuals has an agenda.

Gator
To answer your question as to why I did not proceed.
I have always been an honest business man. I will not make a dollar under false pretenses.
Several months ago I even posted on here showing others how to make extra cash on ebay. Even my ebay account as a seller with over 1000 feedbacks is 100%.
I did not pursue this business because there is no way to make it scam proof. I worked every angle and yes I tried to reinvent the wheel only to find out it cannot be done. I spent 3 years studying this business from top to bottom. I talked to so many agencies and made good friends with them. I have been inside the agency control panels to almost every site online (friends let me in to see). I know how they all work.
What I have learned is there is no way to make money in this business (as a website owner) and keep it legit.

I saw reality that ladies are recruited to agencies with promises of gifts they will receive.
I saw that it is the young ladies Men mostly want to meet but the reality is these ladies do not want to meet those Men.
No website can monitor every agency nor is it even easy to prove one is foul when you are not right in front of them.
I have seen girls who get over 2000 letters a day on Anastasia and these letters are all replied to (what agency could give up the $1.50 they would make per letter?)
Men out number ladies on Anastasia and HRB 5 or 6 to 1. This is reason no site will ever show male customers how many Men are on the sites. At the same time all those Men are also all writting to the young hotties.
Has anyone ever even heard of a Man getting a rejection letter from a lady on one of those sites?
In 3 years of study I have not.
You could be 70 years old with no hair and weight 500 lbs write to an 18 year old who looks like a supermodel and get a reply back saying "Oh I was so happy to receive your letter."

RWD makes up such a small small percentage of the Men who are on this journey. For the rest that do not come here they are stuck in the fantasy. They all believe that they can just pick any girl on the site and make her their wife.
That is a business that I cannot change and because of this I would not do it.

I even met agency owners I found to be very honest people. You then think that only an individual agency can make their business honest. However Even with some of those agency owners I had alot of respect for I come to find that they had agencies full of ladies who all had boyfriends locally. Men do not want to believe that all those young hotties on Anastaisa etc... Already have boyfirends right at home. Not easy to make money on them if you let this information known.
Truth is I could go on forever with everything learned. In shortest terms. 99.99% of everything around this from a business stand point is just pure BS.....

[remiel6]

I find the conversation curious. I think both the original poster and the "detractors" for the lack of a better word make valid points. I know as I have kept mental notes about such things that there are people on this site who have met women on the sites that are suggested to stay away from. Yet, these men would seem to tell you like the OP to avoid them. You can find genuine girls on any site, its just that some of them are harder to find than others are.
As to the comments about houses, and boats and things. You do not show character by telling people you have character. You show character in more subtle ways. I have always held that if a person does not like writing letters, and is not comfortable with this kind of communication that I think this search is just about impossible. I say this because it forces you to perhaps make premature trips to the FSU to meet people face to face who really want nothing more than expensive gifts from you.
you have to find away to weed out the women who only really want presents. We all know this. the debatable part is how.
Some say avoid 18 - 20 year olds
Some say avoid agency XYZ
Some say use EM
Some say use free dating sites.
I say the first step begins before any of this. It begins by looking in the mirror and asking yourself what you want. If you want a young hottie, then it doesn't matter where you look you will fail. Even if you find her and marry her and bring her here, she will divorce you. Relationships are about companionship and only looking for a "hottie" seems to me that you are not interested in companionship you are interested in boosting your self esteem or something.
Just my two cents. FWIW

[docetae]

I agree 100% with the OP. Me and my wife tried to start a Marriage agency... we stopped because we did not like what we saw.
Men don't read and don't listen. The worst was with one meeting in Kiev, the man wanted to flirt with my wife instead of spending more time with the woman he just met.

 

[RussianWind]

Nothing new to me but thanks for writing.

 

[CanadaMan]

What I have learned is there is no way to make money in this business (as a website owner) and keep it legit.

  Ravens, I agree with the basic thrust of your post, ie. 40-50-60 yr. olds shouldn't be looking for 18 year olds. However it becomes more difficult to draw the lines when a 25 or 29 year old woman states a 30-50 age range for a man. The door becomes open and men will jump in if the door is open.

As for the above quote, it simply isn't true.
I know of a very famous site that is run by pretty much one guy and it's become extremely successful.

It doesn't cater to Russian women strictly, but rather to men and women from all over the world. To boot, it's a completely FREE site!
The owner is now a multi-millionaire.

Enough said.

 

[RussianWind]

 To boot, it's a completely FREE site!
The owner is now a multi-millionaire.

Whilst others tried to create an ideal dating site, a smart man caught a new idea. When others come, he will leave for a new project. I bet 

[CanadaMan]

Whilst others tried to create an ideal dating site, a smart man caught a new idea. When others come, he will leave for a new project. I bet 

Actually this man is being very faithful to his site.
It almost seems as though he doesn't want to entrust anyone else to run or mess up the site!
He's been running it now for close to ten years.

He derives all his income from ads on the site and there are lots of ads.

In terms of "others coming", yes many have since caught on to the fact that you can actually make money from "FREE dating sites".
It takes dedication/perseverance and of course being in the right place at the right time.
His site is one of the biggest FREE dating sites in the world and so has tied up a lot of the quality sponsors already.

For someone to start out fresh now and want to copy/duplicate his formula for success would be a tall order. They would have to come up with some new features that set their site apart from all the others.

[Misha]

To boot, it's a completely FREE site! The owner is now a multi-millionaire.
 

I presume you are referring to Markus Frind, Canadian owner of PlentyofFish.com?

[Ade]

I don't really think the OP's intentions are to coach any predators (but I don't really know what you mean by that anyway) I believe it is meant as some sort of a wake up call for serious men who find themselves tempted to look for a lady based on looks as a priority, who is most likely too young in reality. Anyone who has seen those web sites such as brides.ru or the like, much emphasis is placed on young posing/sexy women and lets face it, it sells!!
Anyway Good wake up call IMO

I don't think Ravens would intentionally want to coach anyone that didn't deserve it and I think he probably holds similar views on men and women as I do. However, there is always a danger when discussing these subjects of giving some insight to those that really shouldn't have that insight in the first place. I'm talking of those that naturally would stand little chance of attracting women and for good reason. It's one of the reasons I'm very careful about giving "dating advice" to newbies on this forum as I really do not want to be responsible for giving some "pig", to use Ravens terminology, an advantage he naturally wouldn't have.

I guess I was just rambling out loud and don't really think these discussions shouldn't happen.

[ECOCKS]

Good advice Raven. Should be required reading for those who are new or wondering why they can't seem to find the right one. While many of the experienced recognize what you say, maybe it will help someone to see it presented well in one location. Others will continue to stumble along and wonder what is "wrong" with all these easy FSUW they are looking for.

[RussianWind]

He derives all his income from ads on the site and there are lots of ads.

Then we are speaking of different people. That free site has no adverts at all, it has a completely different conception from anything I saw so far.

[Chicagoguy]

One thing that strikes me is that Raven has been reading many profiles of the men. How many posters here give much time to reading other mens posts ?

I know I seldom did.

[Turboguy]

VWRW,

No where did I say posting pictures of houses, cars etc... was a mistake.

You edited what I wrote to make it look that way.
The TERM
ANOTHER BIG MISTAKE was in for another matter

If I may take the liberty of answering that for my wife, you can't have ANOTHER big mistake unless it is at least number 2 in the list so therefore her point in including that was that you were infering that the first point was a mistake which was why she added that.

Darn, wish this would have come up while I was still in the searching stage and I could have left my ugly kisser out of my listings and just shown my private plane, yaught, and mansion.   Oh, shoot, I don't have a private plane, yaught or mansion. 

[Ravens9273]

One thing that strikes me is that Raven has been reading many profiles of the men. How many posters here give much time to reading other mens posts ?

I know I seldom did.

Chcagoguy,

When you own a dating site you have to read the profiles before they are approved to show on the website.
This is to make sure a person does not put inappropriate information or pictures onto the site. This is basically every dating site that exists.