Have I fallen prey?

[CanadaMan]

I want to start off by saying what a great site/resource this is. I have been following a lot of threads and learning a great deal already about personal experiences.

Little did I expect to be posting a thread in this section (scammers) of the site!

I could use some help from the experts here.

What I'm looking for is an assessment of my situation and if it's deemed to be questionable or very questionable, what tools can I now use (in a very short time) to get to the bottom of this?
Of course I'd need to be subtle, for example if a webcam meeting is required, I could suggest one, but demanding one would not go over well if she is legit.


Here are my notes:

She works in a fitness club as an administrator.
Is it common for Russians to work 12 hours a day?
She now has two days a week off, but the past two weeks has been working six days a week, 12 hours a day.

She gave me her cell number and e-mail address in her first site reply to my brief letter of interest.

I write her asking about a good time to call, and call before receiving a reply late in the evening her time.

First e-mail from her (after we have spoken) is sent from a different e-mail address from the one she gave me.

Next 5 e-mails from address 2 ('her address").
E-mails are read/answered by 'friend', who she later told me she is actually paying because she didn't have a computer.

Most of our correspondence is by my calls to her cellphone. The first couple of weeks it was almost every day for about 30 min/call.

My internal red flag started just two days ago when I received an e-mail that made me immediately sit up and take notice.

After my internal red flag went off I went back and added up all of the other red flags that I hadn't paid too much attention to. Here are my red flag notes.


Red flags:
(Bear in mind that her e-mails were written by her 'friend'.
Also bear in mind that her English is very basic and she often doesn't understand sentences from our conversations.)


- In very early e-mail she states "I married at 19 and lived with my husband for 20 years. We divorced because of his hard alcohol drinking."
Later in a phone conversation she tells me she married at 22 and was married for 15 years.
   
- Over the phone she mentions her parents' age first as being 77 and 77, and then in another conversation as 78 and 78.

- In email, suggested we use the service of a driver-translator rather than take a taxi from the airport.
Over phone, also suggested we use a driver-translator for a few days of my visit as well.
Later in e-mail and over the phone mentions that the driver-interpreter service costs $100 per day.

- In a phone conversation she mentions possibly renting a horse-buggy ride for 5 hrs for $300 !!!

- I tell her recently that I made a reservation at a hotel and that we won't need her translator/friend pick us up at the airport, that the hotel has a shuttle bus service. I said we'll see if we want to use a translator/driver the next day.


LAST TWO E-mails made me sit up and take notice:

- In the first she writes about needing to take a taxi to airport to meet me at 5:00 am since no public transport at that time.

- In same e-mail again suggests that instead of a taxi we use a driver-interpreter to take us to hotel and to restaurant in the evening for $50.

- In same e-mail tells me she borrowed money and bought a used computer and now has her own e-mail address, gives it to me.

- In her last e-mail (first one from her new address) She's happy about the hotel I have chosen, saying it's in the same area as her girlfriend; that we'll go with her skiing, on a horseride, "by their car"...
   
- For the very first time, she asks me if I still want her to meet me at the airport or rather after I have come to the hotel and rested (now that she knows I don't want a translator/interpretor to pick is up at the airport.) She even suggests possibly waiting until the next day to meet, that it's up to me.
   
And finally, now that I want to talk to her since my internal red flags went off yesterday I haven't been able to. Yesterday and today her cell phone rang 8 times with no answer.

So once again I'm requesting an assessment of the situation and if it's deemed to be questionable or very questionable, what can I do to best nail down with absolute certainty whether she is legit or not.

I'm willing to cancel this leg of my trip and take a loss.

[Misha]

Are you flying into Moscow? If it is, given that there is now a train going from Sheremetyevo to the metro, I don't see why a driver would be necessary, let alone a translator/driver.

[Jooky]

A few questions first:

How old is she?
What city are you going to?
How long have you been corresponding?
On what site did you first find her?
Has she ever asked you for money?
Have you ever sent her any money?

[Gator]

Jooky gives you some good questions.  In addition, please tell us how you first encountered this woman.  If via an agency,  which agency?

These are my responses to your specific red flags.

Red flags:
(Bear in mind that her e-mails were written by her 'friend'.
Also bear in mind that her English is very basic and she often doesn't understand sentences from our conversations.)

Better than "basic" if you could converse by phone for 30 minutes every day.  Phone talks are more difficult than face-to-face talks.

- In very early e-mail she states "I married at 19 and lived with my husband for 20 years. We divorced because of his hard alcohol drinking."
Later in a phone conversation she tells me she married at 22 and was married for 15 years.

- Over the phone she mentions her parents' age first as being 77 and 77, and then in another conversation as 78 and 78.

Close enough.  Then again, I am an engineer by education and we round off our numbers. 

- In email, suggested we use the service of a driver-translator rather than take a taxi from the airport.
Over phone, also suggested we use a driver-translator for a few days of my visit as well.
Later in e-mail and over the phone mentions that the driver-interpreter service costs $100 per day.

That seems reasonable IF you need such.  A one way taxi from SVO to downtown Moscow was $65 afew years ago, less if you negotiated well.  Other cities would be less. 

- In a phone conversation she mentions possibly renting a horse-buggy ride for 5 hrs for $300 !!!

Moscow is not inexpensive.  This sounds like fun if the two of you are really into each other.  I say do it towards the end of the trip when you can be romantic if you like each other.  You need to have fun with a woman; otherwise she will think you a dreadful bore.

- I tell her recently that I made a reservation at a hotel and that we won't need her translator/friend pick us up at the airport, that the hotel has a shuttle bus service. I said we'll see if we want to use a translator/driver the next day.

Reasonable decision by you.  RW respect decisive men.

LAST TWO E-mails made me sit up and take notice:

- In the first she writes about needing to take a taxi to airport to meet me at 5:00 am since no public transport at that time.

- In same e-mail again suggests that instead of a taxi we use a driver-interpreter to take us to hotel and to restaurant in the evening for $50.

- In same e-mail tells me she borrowed money and bought a used computer and now has her own e-mail address, gives it to me.

- In her last e-mail (first one from her new address) She's happy about the hotel I have chosen, saying it's in the same area as her girlfriend; that we'll go with her skiing, on a horseride, "by their car"...
   
-   For the very first time, she asks me if I still want her to meet me at the airport or rather after I have come to the hotel and rested (now that she knows I don't want a translator/interpretor to pick is up at the airport.) She even suggests possibly waiting until the next day to meet, that it's up to me.

 

All seem reasonable.  She is letting you decide.  Before she probably thought that you needed her help.  Now she realizes you are big boy. 
   

  And finally, now that I want to talk to her since my internal red flags went off yesterday I haven't been able to. Yesterday and today her cell phone rang 8 times with no answer.

 

Listen to her explanation when you get it.  Don’t interrogate her response.  Make it friendly.  You must accept that RW do not necessarily sit at home awaiting your arrival.

  So once again I'm requesting an assessment of the situation and if it's deemed to be questionable or very questionable, what can I do to best nail down with absolute certainty whether she is legit or not.

I'm willing to cancel this leg of my trip and take a loss.

Everyone goes to the FSU on their first trip with some paranoia.  Do not let it prevent you from having a great travel adventure and enjoying the company of a woman interested in you.

Read the recent pro-dater threads so that you are schooled on how a pro-dater operates.  Have some sort of back up plan if nothing more than the telephone number of an agency or the links for dating sites.
 

[BillyB]

Is it common for Russians to work 12 hours a day?

It is common.

Here's a story that I'm dealing with

I'm communicating with a very beautiful woman for half a week now. She just responded to a letter I wrote 3 months ago. Maybe she did not repond earlier because she was in a relationship. She really likes me, wants me to visit, and I ask in a call this morning "Out of all the men communicating with you, how do you know ME who's calling you from all the others and matching me to the email I wrote you months ago?"  She said "your email is B****@*****.com and I like your mustache" I told her I sent her another email today and she said she will send me one tomorrow since she's currently at work.

That tells me she reads my emails and looked at my photos and matches it to my voice in a matter of days but.... an hour later I received an email from her and it sounded like a canned letter. The email did say she was writing the letter with the interpreter but at the end of the letter it said she will give me her phone number in her next email.

Whoever wrote that letter did not understand that I'm already calling her. I do know some real and sincere women have busy lives and they will get a call from an agency saying a man wrote, tell what he wrote and the lady may tell the agency to write a letter back for her with little or no input on what to write. Maybe she has some canned letters the agency will send on her behalf.

I found her on a dating site so if an agency is writing a letter on her behalf, they are not making any money off of me. She is very good looking and could make any agency money if they charge per letter. I'm sure they will do freebies for her if she asked. I did a google search and haven't found her on any agencies yet. I wtote back an email saying I look forward to receiving her number.

I'm going to call her again, ask questions and drill her. She better have a damn good reason that email showed up at a time she couldn't write it because I'm not going to put up with games. Besides, there's too many other ladies out there that doesn't come with all this drama.

 CanadaMan, you're spooked and I don't know if you could have a good trip if you tried with this woman. You're already worried she'll suck you/your wallet dry once you arrive. No man should make a trip to the FSU unless he's totally happy and comfortable with the lady he's visiting. If you're doing a WMVM, then it wouldn't matter if one lady flakes on you, just move on to the next.

[CanadaMan]

Are you flying into Moscow? If it is, given that there is now a train going from Sheremetyevo to the metro, I don't see why a driver would be necessary, let alone a translator/driver.

No the city is Perm. Thanks!

[CanadaMan]

A few questions first:

How old is she?     47  (I'm 54)
What city are you going to?   Perm
How long have you been corresponding?  One month (I was planning a trip anyways)
On what site did you first find her?   Free Russian Personals
Has she ever asked you for money?    No never.
Have you ever sent her any money?    No never.

She mentioned this translator/driver a couple of times in our conversations but I told her we will see, I really don't think we need one at all, as she can carry on a conversation in English.

It's the e-mails (written by her 'friend') that has been more persistent about mentioning the translator/driver.

[Misha]

What city are you going to?   Perm

It's the e-mails (written by her 'friend') that has been more persistent about mentioning the translator/driver.

I love Perm. Wonderful city. IIRC, the airport is actually very close to the city center and there are many buses going from the airport to the city center. I still don't see the need for a translator/driver.

[BillyB]

she can carry on a conversation in English.

It's the e-mails (written by her 'friend') that has been more persistent about mentioning the translator/driver.

You should have told her a long time ago the emails between you and her are private and the friend does not belong. If a RW doesn't have it, tell her to get a free @mail.ru email account since it has a free translator to use. Lady needs to push a button and instantly have your words translated to Russian or  her word translated to English before she sends it to you.

[CanadaMan]

I love Perm. Wonderful city. IIRC, the airport is actually very close to the city center and there are many buses going from the airport to the city center. I still don't see the need for a translator/driver.

Right, everything I've read about Perm so far has been very positive about the city.
Yes the airport is about a 15 minute drive into the city.
Just to be clear, the driver/translator had been mentioned (mostly by the e-mail writer) but also by phone a few times not just for the airport pickup, but for one or two days also, in case we needed help conversing.

As I mentioned we're not really having any big problems conversing now, and it's over the phone. In person would be even easier as you can now use gestures, your hands, see each other's expressions etc. etc.

[CanadaMan]

You should have told her a long time ago the emails between you and her are private and the friend does not belong. If a RW doesn't have it, tell her to get a free @mail.ru email account since it has a free translator to use. Lady needs to push a button and instantly have your words translated to Russian or  her word translated to English before she sends it to you.

 Thanks Billy.
I didn't know that this strange twist in events would occur and that I would be going back and investigating all correspondence carefully.

I was always taking the e-mails with a grain of salt because:
a) I knew she wasn't writing them (the English was quite a notch above her abilities)
b) the writer was clearly pushing this translation/driver thing

So I kept the e-mail correspondence to just the facts.

[CanadaMan]

Gator I want to thank you for all the great help you provide on this site!
I've read many of your posts already and you've been so helpful to all the folks here.
It comes across in your posts.

Jooky gives you some good questions.  In addition, please tell us how you first encountered this woman.  If via an agency,  which agency?

 Free Russian Personals dating site. No agency, although this 'friend' that she was paying for her e-mails could very well work at an agency.

Better than "basic" if you could converse by phone for 30 minutes every day.  Phone talks are more difficult than face-to-face talks.

Yes I agree, much better than basic, it's true.

That seems reasonable IF you need such.  A one way taxi from SVO to downtown Moscow was $65 afew years ago, less if you negotiated well.  Other cities would be less. 

The city as I later mentioned is Perm, I don't know the taxi fares there but it's a 15 minute ride. And as long as I coordinate with the hotel I can have a free shuttle bus service.

Moscow is not inexpensive.  This sounds like fun if the two of you are really into each other.  I say do it towards the end of the trip when you can be romantic if you like each other.  You need to have fun with a woman; otherwise she will think you a dreadful bore.

Reasonable decision by you.  RW respect decisive men.

Yes when she first mentioned it in a conversation I was all for it, very romantic.
We talked about it once or twice and then she mentioned what it would cost for a 5 hour rental ($300) and I just said to myself ("Yeah right, one hour will be plenty thank you!")

Listen to her explanation when you get it.  Don’t interrogate her response.  Make it friendly.  You must accept that RW do not necessarily sit at home awaiting your arrival.

 Yes of course I will, but you must understand that we set up a non-verbal understanding of when I would call. I call at precisely the same time each day or second day just after 10 pm.
She goes to sleep shortly after that and has just returned home from work not long before!
So that doesn't leave much time for her NOT "sitting at home waiting for my arrival".
That's assuming she was on the up and up with everything.

Everyone goes to the FSU on their first trip with some paranoia.  Do not let it prevent you from having a great travel adventure and enjoying the company of a woman interested in you.

Read the recent pro-dater threads so that you are schooled on how a pro-dater operates.  Have some sort of back up plan if nothing more than the telephone number of an agency or the links for dating sites.

Thanks Gator, I honestly hope we will reach that stage. The next few days will be VERY interesting!

[boaterguy]

My question to you : Is the translator driver for $100 a day all inclusive? That sounds like a heck of a deal to me.

[Jooky]

It sounds to me that the email writing 'friend' is also the translator / driver, or works with the same agency. Small agencies do place ads for ladies on Free Personals with the hope that a man will come visit so they can profit from him when he arrives.

Nothing about this lady seems like a 'red flag' to me. The prices quoted to you seem about right, but if you don't want to pay for these things, don't do it. It sounds like the lady respects your ultimate decisions, so stay in charge, keep making the calls as you see fit and enjoy the trip!

[CanadaMan]

My question to you : Is the translator driver for $100 a day all inclusive? That sounds like a heck of a deal to me.

Yes it is. I have no idea what the going rates are for driving/translating in Russia.
The point is, is that we don't really need a translator nor a chauffeur either.
To me, even if $100 is a good/fair price, it would be a waste of money AND it would be a distraction. We would not be in private, you know that third party feeling?

[boaterguy]

Yes it is. I have no idea what the going rates are for driving/translating in Russia.
The point is, is that we don't really need a translator nor a chauffeur either.
To me, even if $100 is a good/fair price, it would be a waste of money AND it would be a distraction. We would not be in private, you know that third party feeling?

I would jump at the chance to have a car at my disposal for $100 for a day! Perhaps you can tell him you don't need his translation services and talk him down to $50! I don't know about the price of a car but I'm sure it's more than $100! Translation services are probably in the $10-$20 per hour range. Perhaps you could change your plans 1 day to include a car to get to those places you want to see that might be off the beaten path.

[Vaughn]

We would not be in private, you know that third party feeling?

 I see it as a distraction as well, CanadaMan. Stick to your guns. Time will tell. I don't
discount the service as money wasted for a man who feels he wants it, but the feeling
of toting around a chaperone all day doesn't appeal to me.

 Always hesitant to advise on these types of matters as my experience was limited to
only one woman - my wife. We met face to face at SVOII after months of writing, took
a cab to our hotel. The following day we took a cab to the train station. No interpreters.
Public transportation only. From Moscow to her city by train.

 I feel like I got see Russia, the one she knew, rather than a grand tour via motorcoach
with all the comfy amenities. Everyone's approach to be sure is by individual choice. Go
with your own best common sense approach despite the e-mail suggestions to buy into
the full service offer you're not wild about.

[Vaughn]

CanadaMan, can you clarify something? Are these transportation/interpreter
services being offered upon your arrival in Moscow - or for Perm?

[CanadaMan]

CanadaMan, can you clarify something? Are these transportation/interpreter
services being offered upon your arrival in Moscow - or for Perm?

 I have a connecting flight in Moscow that takes me to Perm.
The services offered are upon my arrival in Perm.

Thanks Boaterguy and Vaughn for your advice!
I really appreciate it.

OK now I know that if I were make use of the trans/interp service at $100/day I would be getting a very good deal.

I will stick to my plans (the same feelings that Vaughn has) and go without trans/interp for the first day. If I feel we could benefit from one for the next day I will definitely pay for the service.

[CanadaMan]

Well I finally have some good news to report on this matter.
I was getting extremely nervous that I couldn't even talk with her anymore.

For the past three days I have been calling her cellphone (same as usual at the same time as usual) and there has been no answer.
Two days ago the phone rang 6 times and when I called back the next two times it was busy.
Yesterday no answer again in a 30 minute period.
And today no answer once again in a 30 minute period.

Plus she hadn't answered my e-mail to her home computer from two days ago.
Then finally I received a brief e-mail an hour or so ago asking _me why I haven't called or written to her recently!

I quickly wrote back asking her for her land/regular phone number (to see if it would work and also to possibly have some way of tracing her location if need be).

She wrote back soon after with her land number and I called her back right away.

We finally spoke again after three days! She said her cell phone never rang in those three days with a call from me. No display showing I called.

I don't have a cell phone (believe it or not) so I'm not familiar with their various quirks. Does a cellphone going on the fritz for a few days sound plausible in Russia?

Anyhow I am greatly relieved that we were finally able to talk again and she seemed genuinely happy too and relieved as I was about the stop to the hiatus.
You could hear it in her voice.

So this is very comforting indeed! 

[BillyB]

Does a cellphone going on the fritz for a few days sound plausible in Russia?

I've called hundreds of ladies in the FSU. Sometimes the international phone system can quit working in certain areas for days, weeks, and in one case, months.

[Jumper]

while the cell phone system is good in the FSU


 When calling internationally to a land line, or a cell,
it certainly wouldn't be that  unusual to get a ring tone, when in fact the call didn't go thru.



 

[CanadaMan]

while the cell phone system is good in the FSU

 When calling internationally to a land line, or a cell,
it certainly wouldn't be that  unusual to get a ring tone, when in fact the call didn't go thru.

Thanks AJ. I will just leave it then to a malfunctioning cell service.
Thankfully the land line was working OK today.
BTW, the sound quality of the call was way above the cellphone quality that we've been getting.

[Vaughn]

CMan, it's great you got the landline number. We've also found it to be far more
predictable and reliable in general.

Perm appears to be a great city to visit. I did write to one lady from Perm many
years ago - and was most interested in visiting there, but our correspondence
fizzled out. There is a travel agency there, Krasnov, whose page is worth a look:

http://www.uraltourism.com/perm.php

Found this older wooden Perm home on another page - its beauty really caught
my eye...  then again, others may see its lavish trim and colors as tacky.

[RussianWind]

I find mentioned prices extremely high for Perm.

And I do not understand why you need all day taxi and a horse for 5 hours!?

A ride from one end of the city to another one will cost around $3-5. Isn't it easy just to call to a taxi service when you decide to go somewhere? And honestly I don't think you will go somewhere out of the centre. What's the reason for a all-day taxi?