The best way to go about this process

[BrianW]

All,


Keep in mind I am a newbie. I'm 26 years old. I've never traveled to the FSU, and I've only dated one RW, who lived here in the U.S. But judging on what I've read on this site and what I've learned from befriending some members whom I respect and have helped me (like 2012) this is the strategy that will bring about the best chance of a good result.

First, get on a plane and go. Stay for at least a few weeks. If you can stay for a month or more, this is the best scenario. Rent an apartment instead of a hotel. Get a local guide that can help you. Learn Russian, at least some. AVOID agencies, most are corrupt and many of the girls that join are merely pro daters or total scam artists. Letter writing is mostly a waste of time. You can learn more in one meeting than you could during weeks of writing. Once you are in country and on the ground, use sites like Mamba and befriend locals who could introduce you to nice girls. Volunteering can help or taking an English course at a local university as well. When problems arise, use this forum for help.

Avoid the major places like Kiev, St. Petersburg and go places where Westerners are a little more scarce. In regards to finding a wife, be realistic. Don't just marry the hottest one you can find. Don't marry a 19 year old if you are 50. Don't marry a Phd if you are a high school drop out. Don't bring up sexual matters early, let things happen naturally. Be decisive and a gentleman. Bring a small gift when you meet her and her family. Be a good person.

If anyone wants to add anything, please do. Godspeed.

[JohnDearGreen]

  AVOID agencies.... Letter writing is mostly a waste of time. You can learn more in one meeting than you could during weeks of writing. 

It depends on how "selective" you are as to looks, interests, and whatever.  If you are very picky, the method you described will be fun but will probably not succeed.  I am somewhat selective.  First I find the lady(s) I like, then worry about how dishonest the agency is.  One of the ladies I liked best was from the most dishonest agency on internet.  I had to wade through dozens of emails from 19 year old bikini girls to communicate with her.   The advantage for me of dating FSU ladies is that I could accomplish in 6 months what would take me 6 years to accomplish here.  Supply and demand...

[facetrock]

  Remember Brian, you will be dating early 20s women. Alot more westernized than the late 30s models I chase around. In fact my experience with meeting some that age is they are little different than their AW counterparts. And if you do hit it off with the hottest one you meet, marry her.

[vwrw]

There is no universal way to go about this process. Men are different and the best way for everyone does not exist. In determining what is the best way personally for you, contingency factors (who you are, what you can and how much you can afford to spend and so on) play a crucial role.

If I was a guy that is interested in FSUW, first I would decide whether I am a WMVM or WMVO or WOVO woman guy. Then, I would start communicating with one woman at a time if I prefer WOVO or with many women, trying to identify a woman I really like.  After the woman is located and if I was VO guy, I would make plans to meet her and contact agenc-y/-ies located in the woman’s city and make arrangements for the case if I am disappointed of my #1.  If I was VM guy, I would continue search and try to identify more women that I like from the same city and contact agenc-y/-ies located in the women’s city for case if I am disappointed of everyone I was corresponding with.

For 1.5 year I was a member of an agency where I communicated with many women. The allegation that many women there are pro daters or scam artists is a rubbish begging for riddance.

Letter writing can be a waste of time indeed if you are lacking analytical skills, do not know what you want, or are ignorant of techniques that are helpful in eliciting info. Otherwise, corresponding stage can be pretty revealing.   

[vwrw]

Another important variable is the degree of likeability you possess.  If you are as charming as Bret Pitt(spelling?) that most women find attractive or as Antonio Hopkins that women similar to me find attractive, then whatever way you choose to go, everywhere there will be women sincerely interested in you .  However, if the 26 years were wasted and the traits that women commonly value were not developed, then whatever way you go, expect to gain interest only from pro daters, GCG and other scam artists.

[remiel6]

I do not consider letter writing a waste of time. I understand why some do, but it depends on your ability to be open and honest in the letters. I have over 400 pages of letters with my fiance and had over 100 pages by the time I had ever set foot in the Ukraine. If you are uncomfortable writing then by all means do not rely on it, but personally I think writing is a good way of getting to know people and getting close to them without spending 5K to do it.
The post about there being no right way is I think the best answer. What is comfortable to you? that is the key question.

[Bruce]

Do not bother going to the FSU.   Look for a wife here.   

[KenC]

All,


Keep in mind I am a newbie. I'm 26 years old. I've never traveled to the FSU, and I've only dated one RW, who lived here in the U.S. But judging on what I've read on this site and what I've learned from befriending some members whom I respect and have helped me (like 2012) this is the strategy that will bring about the best chance of a good result.

If you are going to follow someones advice, why wouldn't you follow advice from someone that has been successful?

First, get on a plane and go.

"Going" is very important.  "Going blind" is foolish.

Stay for at least a few weeks. If you can stay for a month or more, this is the best scenario. Rent an apartment instead of a hotel.

All good ideas.

Get a local guide that can help you.

Lots of pros and cons regarding guides here can be found here.  Agency terps are usually more than adequate and far cheaper.

Learn Russian, at least some.

Good idea unless the woman you are visiting speaks English.

AVOID agencies, most are corrupt and many of the girls that join are merely pro daters or total scam artists.

I do not agree with this at all.  You can find good or bad women anywhere.  It is most important that you meet the right woman for you regardless of the source of introduction.  You can easily weed out the bad agencies here to focus on the good ones.

Letter writing is mostly a waste of time.

Prior communication is the only smart way to ensure that the woman (women) you go to visit are within your interest parameters.

You can learn more in one meeting than you could during weeks of writing.

While this is very true, it still is wise to refine your choice(s) prior to meeting.  I do not advocate a long term correspondence prior to visiting, but some refinement of choices is wise.
 

Once you are in country and on the ground, use sites like Mamba and befriend locals who could introduce you to nice girls.

So you would rather trust a stranger than an agency that has good references here?  Doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

Volunteering can help or taking an English course at a local university as well.

Do not understand this at all.

When problems arise, use this forum for help.

While it is a good idea to be able to make contact here, the help would not necessarily be 24/7 available like a respected referred local source would be.

Avoid the major places like Kiev, St. Petersburg and go places where Westerners are a little more scarce

.
Sounds like you want to be a big fish in a little pond or lack the confidence to pursue a quality big city woman.  If you only seek a desperate woman, I agree.

In regards to finding a wife, be realistic. Don't just marry the hottest one you can find. Don't marry a 19 year old if you are 50. Don't marry a Phd if you are a high school drop out. Don't bring up sexual matters early, let things happen naturally. Be decisive and a gentleman. Bring a small gift when you meet her and her family. Be a good person.

Don't leave your common sense at home.  
KenC

[Ravens9273]

Brian

There is no formula to success on this journey. In fact you will see most of the married men here did the opposite of what you wrote.
Too many think they need a plan or that there is some secret instruction manual to dating Women in the FSU. When your mind thinks this way it will lead to alot of failure. You can see the results of that thinking right here on this forum.

The moment you removed that state of thinking from your mind the better off you will be.
Every man on this forum is different and every Women is different. It is our unique differences which guide our paths.

Just be yourself and do not think too much into it. You do not put alot of thought into dating an AW then do not do the same here because it is the same (other then being 1000's of miles apart).

What I have always found interesting about this forum is the majority who follow the above plan rarely find success. Yet the majority of the married Men here did almost the complete opposite. I tend to wonder why this advice or PLAN is still being used and much less given as advice to new people.

Now I will give my opinion to long letter writting. This is my opinion and not stating fact or what anyone else should do but I am personally a fan of long letter writting.
The end result of this journey is marriage (at least for most). I do not think this decision should be rushed or taken lightly. I am not a fan of the famous advice of "Do not write unless you can get on a plane to visit within 90 days".
A marriage should not be a foot race. I think going into a marriage at such a pace will lead to disaster later.
Many are concerned with pro daters and scammers. Honestly many cannot be sorted out in 90 days and to waste money and time on a quick trip for one is also not what Men here want. We have seen it happen over and over.

My wife and I wrote and chatted via IM for 26 months before first meeting (not recommending others do so as long).
My wife spent her nights talking to me. She is still young and was talking to me instead of going out with friends to night clubs. She waited for me daily on the computer to talk and these talks went into the wee hours of the night for her.
Those 26 months told me plenty. What they told me was she was for real and she was all about me. I had no doubts in her intentions at all. No what ifs or buts about it.
To me the long time without a meeting shows peoples true colors and intentions. Would I really want to marry someone I had to race over to see? If I am not there in a few months then they will move over to the next guy. To be honest that is not the kind of marriage I wanted.
While many will say the time was long I can also say that I am married to a beautiful, loving and caring Women who means the world to me.  Many who would say I took a long time started this journey before me and are still looking.

Believe me. The first meeting will be completely different with a longer correspondence then a short one. Time creates more of a connection and feelings between two people which helps increase the odds of success during that first meeting. But each has his own beliefs.

[KenC]

Ravens,
Do you not think you can get to know a woman well enough over a 90 day period of consistant conversation?  Not knocking what you said but I had always feared that the "fantasy factor" takes hold over a long term correspondence.  Either one or both may have built up their expectations to an unattainable level because of their own imagination.
KenC

[Sculpto]

Ravens,
Do you not think you can get to know a woman well enough over a 90 day period of consistant conversation?  Not knocking what you said but I had always feared that the "fantasy factor" takes hold over a long term correspondence.  Either one or both may have built up their expectations to an unattainable level because of their own imagination.
KenC

I agree with Ken, even though I had a very long correspondence before meeting.  The risk is the reality doesn't meet the fantasy and then there is so much invested it is harder to walk away. 

Brian I thought you were planning to go for an extended trip of a couple months?

[Ravens9273]

Ravens,
Do you not think you can get to know a woman well enough over a 90 day period of consistant conversation?  Not knocking what you said but I had always feared that the "fantasy factor" takes hold over a long term correspondence.  Either one or both may have built up their expectations to an unattainable level because of their own imagination.
KenC

I actually think the long time helps eliminate the "fantasy factor".
As well all know a relationship is great in the begining. As time goes on it begins to fizzle.

Many years ago (mid 90's) I worked for a company under the boss. The company back then did alot of hiring. It was growing rapidly and alot of the times they did job interviews in groups. The boss would litterly hold about a 2 hour ordeal before meeting each person individually at the end. I always thought the 2 hour ordeal was crazy until one day I asked why.
I never forget what he told me.
The boss told me he did it for a reason.
He first asked me if I knew how much money it costs a company to hire a wrong person? I did not know the answer and cannot remember it now but it was alot more then the salary be paying them.
He said anyone can fake you out for 10 minutes in an interview. You honestly do not know who you are hiring  you would in that 10 minute interview. They can put on their big smile, answer all questions with answers they think you want to hear and show genuine excitment for the job during that 10 minute interview. He said however after two hours of sitting in a room with uncomfortable chairs you will see the real person come out. At that point you have many no longer paying attention, slouched over in their chairs etc...
He knew by the time that two hours was up who he wanted to hire.

In a way I sort of believe in the same idea with what I said.
I do not think I would have known my wife in 90 days the way I did in 26 months (once again not recommending this amount of time being needed).
My wife could have been anyone for 90 days. But during that 26 months and the fact she waited that long told me more about her and how she truly felt about me.

I will never forget our first meeting. It was incredible. I had no doubt it would be a failure etc..
I went my first trip for one month. No back up plan and I was invited to stay with my now wife in her home.
I do not think that meeting would have meant as much had it been a shorter period of writting.

I do not disagree with what you said Ken. As always you know I have tremendous respect for you. Not writting this to say I am right and everyone else is wrong.
I truly believe longer time in writting builds a stronger bond that helps first meeting and if that person is there for you that whole time speaks volumes in their true intentions to you.


OK we got nailed with snow today. Heading off to the movies since nothing else to do to see The Blind Side for the 3rd time (great movie). Could be I am biased since it is about a Raven

[KenC]

Ravens,
This is a discussion, not a debate or an argument.
I talked with Lena almost daily for 2 months before I went over.  She was exactly who I thought she was and she said the same about me.  It was like a meeting between two old friends.  Not to discount the possibility that it was just blind luck either.

I love the logic your boss used too.  Anyone can BS someone for 10 mins! And I used a similar logic when I clue bat a one week wonder.  I also agree that there is no shortcuts either.  Maybe our different opinions are based on VO vs. VM?  If I were to go visit multiple women, I would venture to guess that a 90 weeding out period would be adequate to refine my choices.  To be followed by multiple VO visits and a more lengthy communication period.
KenC

[Sculpto]

I dont know.. having done a lot of internet dating before I ever went to the FSU the biggest frustration was getting hopes up during a great online interaction and not feeling the chemistry when finally meeting in real life.  I don't really see how engaging in a very long correspondence would minimize that risk.  On the contrary, it makes the risk greater IMO simply because expectations are that much higher.  On paper a long correspondence should bring the advantage of knowing the person better, but, chemistry is chemistry and there is simply no way to assess that in a virtual relationship.

Raven.. your situation is unique and I am sure it is a formula that is very infrequently repeated successfully.  Kudos for you and your wife for pulling it off, but....

Now, speaking about Brian, having had hours of chats with him I am sure in his situation the best bet is an extended trip of at least one month and even better two if he can swing it.  Brian is a real nice guy but probably a bit soft from dealing with American girls.  An extended trip would give him a chance to know how it feels to be cherished for being a man, build some confidence and some insight into the mentality of FSUWs before getting locked in with anyone.  I think he needs simply to decide WHERE he wants to go and start making some friendly contacts in whatever city he chooses.  I would also suggest that since Brian lives in a pretty big and fast moving city he would be better served to focus on ladies from a relatively large city, but, that is again my opinion.

[BrianW]

OK, I will change my earlier statement about letter writing. I revise it by saying, sometimes its good, sometimes it can get a person's hopes up too high. 

[greg2654]

Avoid the major places like Kiev, St. Petersburg and go places where Westerners are a little more scarce.

The only reason I can think of to avoid the major cities is if you happen to live out in the country. Big city girls sometimes have a hard time transitioning to rural life.

[Ravens9273]

The only reason I can think of to avoid the major cities is if you happen to live out in the country. Big city girls sometimes have a hard time transitioning to rural life.

EXCELLENT POINT GREG!!!!

[docetae]

For 1.5 year I was a member of an agency where I communicated with many women. The allegation that many women there are pro daters or scam artists is a rubbish begging for riddance.

Letter writing can be a waste of time indeed if you are lacking analytical skills, do not know what you want, or are ignorant of techniques that are helpful in eliciting info. Otherwise, corresponding stage can be pretty revealing.   

I agreewith BrianW about marriage agency. The issue is not with women from agencies. The issue is with agencies themselves. This system is today outdated, has more risk and more cost than other solutions. Yes, this is possible to meet someone trough their intermediary, but why to choose the risky road when you have more easy alternative ?

[Enot]

Forget about finding a girl from Russia or the Ukraine.  Concentrate on women from other former soviet union countries like Belarus, Moldova, or Uzbekistan.

Maybe you're interested in this one?  http://fdating.com/profile?id=98449;

[docetae]

Forget about finding a girl from Russia or the Ukraine.  Concentrate on women from other former soviet union countries like Belarus, Moldova, or Uzbekistan.

why ? because economy in Russia or Ukraine is better, you can not find a woman desperate enough to marry you ? Need more explanations...

[vwrw]

I agreewith BrianW about marriage agency. The issue is not with women from agencies. The issue is with agencies themselves. This system is today outdated, has more risk and more cost than other solutions.

Why you quoted the part of my post to agree with Brian I did not understand. 
According to Brian, BOTH agencies and many of their women are corrupt. I know that what he says about women is misinformation, so I objected.  I dealt only with one agency, and certainly it would be wrong for me to produce any positive or negative generalization about agencies with the data I have, so I did not.

Yes, this is possible to meet someone trough their intermediary, but why to choose the risky road when you have more easy alternative ?

Because when you are there in FSU with plenty of free time on your hands and disappointed of one or several of those women who were chosen  by the  more easy alternatives, it would be beneficial to call local agencies and see if you can meet someone through their intermediary.
When I said I would make arrangements with agency/-ies of the city where I travel to, I did not mean I would make an appointment to meet with them when I am in the city. What I meant was to get their phone numbers and their assurance that the agencies would work with me if my initial selection was wrong. 

[Enot]

The reason is your ODDS (remember ODDS, thinks ODDS) are better of finding a serious woman to be your wife.  The reason for increased odds doesn't matter ... but your odds are better if you stay away from Russia and the Ukraine.

Your next question is probably what do you mean by serious.  Serious means finding someone that is truely interested in finding a foreign husband and is ready to accept a life in a foreign country.

[Bruce]

I still can not figure out why it is better for a 26 year old guy to start a very long distance relationship in a country that is very far away with a very different culture     A guy 26 years old who can not attract quality women here needs to look within himself and see what he needs to do to get his act together, not fantasize about long distance relationships.    If anything going to the FSU will be more trouble than positive for him.   Correct me where I am wrong.   Sure, go to the FSU for a vacation just to see what it is like.   Work on your whatever difficulties you have here meeting a quality girl  .    That is the best most honest advice anybody can give you.    FSU women at 26, forget about it !

[RussianWind]

If I was a guy that is interested in FSUW, first I would decide whether I am a WMVM or WMVO or WOVO woman guy.  

Sounds already like a sexual orientation. Decide! What kind of guy you are! 

Brian, don't listen to anybody on this board. Just do as your heart says to do. Good luck!

[vwrw]

  A guy 26 years old who can not attract quality women here needs to look within himself and see what he needs to do to get his act together, not fantasize about long distance relationships.    If anything going to the FSU will be more trouble than positive for him.   Correct me where I am wrong.   Sure, go to the FSU for a vacation just to see what it is like.   Work on your whatever difficulties you have here meeting a quality girl  .    That is the best most honest advice anybody can give you.    FSU women at 26, forget about it !

If your assumption is right and he looks abroad because he can’t attract women here, then your advices are good, and he better look within himself and so on. However, if your assumption is wrong, and he can attract women here, but the interaction with women of different culture gives him thrills, and he wants to experience those on regular base, then I cannot see any problem with his motivation to go to FSU.