SEXUALLY ACTIVE MAN SEARCHING FOR RW

[Boethius]

May I remind you the Original post and question of this thread?

I don't think it's necessary to become so personal and question the cirtumstances of another member, except if it's deamed to have some weight regarding the original question!

Sorry Boethius but I have not read your story(if you posted one), so I have no idea of your personal circumstances. On the other hand why don't amend your profile to indicate cleary you are a FEMALE?

May I remind you most posters thought the original question was ridiculous?  Threads drift.  Often, for the better.

[wiz]

May I remind you most posters thought the original question was ridiculous? 

I didn't think it was ridiculous ......... but was/is mainly your view and not of many others!

Threads drift.  Often, for the better.

I am sure I know that by now and after many years on the boards...... but if you wish to continue justifying your personal circumstances ......... for the sake of it..... please continue! 

[BillyB]

Boethius, a lot of your posts question the sanity of men searching for love in another country. It shouldn't come as a surprise people will question how you found love. Maybe it you found love, maybe it was your citizenship of another country and a potential ticket for a RM to get out and you were a visa mule. When Reagan struck a deal with Gorbachev to take thousands of USSR's religious persecuted, you'd be surprise how many Atheists found God so they could get a ticket to America even at a time believing in God was not popular.

You know your story and the men here know their story. You want to think negative about their motives, they will openly think negative about yours and the people in your life motives. Most men here are far from sex tourists. Surely you have some good things to say about us.

[Boethius]

but if you wish to continue justifying your personal circumstances

I'm not "justifying" anything.  If someone makes a speculation, I'll respond.

Boethius, a lot of your posts question the sanity of men searching for love in another country. It shouldn't come as a surprise people will question how you found love. Maybe it you found love, maybe it was your citizenship of another country and a potential ticket for a RM to get out and you were a visa mule. When Reagan struck a deal with Gorbachev to take thousands of USSR's religious persecuted, you'd be surprise how many Atheists found God so they could get a ticket to America even at a time believing in God was not popular.

You know your story and the men here know their story. You want to think negative about their motives, they will openly think negative about yours and the people in your life motives. Most men here are far from sex tourists. Surely you have some good things to say about us.

I married at the height of the conflict, registered when Andropov was in power, married when Chernenko was first secretary, so your speculation is out to lunch.  There was also no movement from Ukraine during Gorbachev's time in power.  So, move on to the next "theory".

No, I don't question the sanity of men seeking foreign wives, nor do I think they all have negative motives.  I just question having a "checklist" that is akin to a shopping list or treating a woman like a product.  And I have never posted everyone here is a sex tourist.  I don't think anyone posting here is a sex tourist.  I just noted the viewpoint from the woman's perspective.

When relations are built on financial elements rather than respect and love, family life is doomed to fail.  That is the point I've been making.  Respect for a human being is not based on money.

While many men blame American feminists for the failure of family life, it is not feminism that destroyed this, it was the focus on money, rather than family.

Reinforces my point: you have extremely limited experience with dating, being heartbroken, starting over again, trying to figure out which men are the good men....  

Exactly what point is that?  That women who claim "sex tourist" are lying even to themselves?

[groovlstk]

groov,
While I do see your point that some guys can get a twisted view of people from the fsu if their only contact is with agency connections, I still believe this is an exaggeration.

I do not accept that all agencies and people associated with them are bad.
I met and spoke with 2 of the owners and the 2 office managers of the agency I used.  All were decent, honest and forthright people.  While the women listed at the agency were a mixed bag, I would even go with the 70% "agenda" girls Lena spoke of to me. 

Ken, during my search I used about a dozen different agencies. Some were better than others but even the ones that are praised here by married men pulled the usual shenanigans (fake letters, etc.). This absolutely had an affect on my impressions of Ukraine, at least until I had a few trips under my belt and understood that the MOB industry was separate and distinct and not a good bellwether of the rest of the country.   

(BTW, comparing then to now, I am of the opinion this percentage has actually changed for the BETTER now.  My reasoning is that "Internet dating" or "Internet introductions" are a more acceptable action today than before.  And the increase of direct contact too)

I'm sure this is at least party true, but agencies never offered true internet dating in the way that match.com, freepersonals.ru, and even new Russian dating sites like mamba.ru do. I also think there are many RW who use pure dating sites like mamba.ru that would never use a dating agency because there's a stigma involved, not much different from the stigma most Western men must endure when they decide to look for romance in Russia or Ukraine.

[Misha]

Exactly what point is that?  That women who claim "sex tourist" are lying even to themselves?

When you somehow put forward the idea that women will be forever scarred and unable to recover from a man who may have had sex with them and not married them. Your assertion that somehow women from the FSU are unable to understand the motives of men. Also, I would add that one must be careful to not take everything that any man or woman might say as the gospel truth. Just because a man says a woman was a pro-dater, does not mean that a woman was, and just because a woman says that a man was a sex tourist does not mean that she is right. Both may not be telling the truth and both may be deluding themselves or may be unwilling to face the truth. Or, they may simply use the labels because they make themselves look better. It is always better to lay the blame on somebody else. Again, IMO, some of your statements simplify reality and do not acknowledge the complex nature of dating and the varying expectations that people have, the politics involved and the ways that people delude others and delude themselves.....

As for not justifying yourself, it seems that you are pretty good at speculating yourself. Sure, perhaps what you are saying is true, but then again, you may simply be rationalizing your actions in the past. Why should we automatically believe that your intentions were pure, when you seem to be quite intent on reading into the motives of others nefarious ends.

[BillyB]

When relations are built on financial elements rather than respect and love, family life is doomed to fail.  That is the point I've been making.  Respect for a human being is not based on money.

You defended NickB's lady when she asked him for a $700 coat. When he didn't buy it, you through your husband's mouth, accused him of shopping for cheaper meat. You and bravegirl, the RW who likes to talk about money, think alike more than you know.

If respect is not based on money, why didn't you criticize NickB's girl? The more posts I read from you, the more I understand you have different standards for men and women.

[Boethius]

You defended NickB's lady when she asked him for a $700 coat. When he didn't buy it, you through your husband's mouth, accused him of shopping for cheaper meat. You and bravegirl, the RW who likes to talk about money, think alike more than you know.

If respect is not based on money, why didn't you criticize NickB's girl? The more posts I read from you, the more I understand you have different standards for men and women.

Uh, no, I didn't defend her.  Go back and read what I actually post, rather than what you'd like me to post.  I posted that she was someone who had never known actual poverty, and that she was no better than him.

I have never based any of my relations, be they personal or business, on money.

[Boethius]

When you somehow put forward the idea that women will be forever scarred and unable to recover from a man who may have had sex with them and not married them. Your assertion that somehow women from the FSU are unable to understand the motives of men. Also, I would add that one must be careful to not take everything that any man or woman might say as the gospel truth. Just because a man says a woman was a pro-dater, does not mean that a woman was, and just because a woman says that a man was a sex tourist does not mean that she is right. Both may not be telling the truth and both may be deluding themselves or may be unwilling to face the truth. Or, they may simply use the labels because they make themselves look better. It is always better to lay the blame on somebody else. Again, IMO, some of your statements simplify reality and do not acknowledge the complex nature of dating and the varying expectations that people have, the politics involved and the ways that people delude others and delude themselves.....

As for not justifying yourself, it seems that you are pretty good at speculating yourself. Sure, perhaps what you are saying is true, but then again, you may simply be rationalizing your actions in the past. Why should we automatically believe that your intentions were pure, when you seem to be quite intent on reading into the motives of others nefarious ends.

I never posted that the women would be scarred forever.  Just that men with good intentions won't be leading them on.

I don't need to justify myself to you or anyone else.  Speculate away.  I will no longer play your one upmanship.

Since it is obviously very important to you, yeah, you win.  Any FSU woman who sleeps with a man under promises of marriage is a slut who got what she deserved.  The cyka deserves no consideration or respect.

There, happy now?

[BillyB]

Uh, no, I didn't defend her.  Go back and read what I actually post, rather than what you'd like me to post.  I posted that she was someone who had never known actual poverty, and that she was no better than him.

She is no better than him? Really? Because Nick didn't buy her a $700 coat, you accuse him of shopping for cheaper meat. No excuses for him. Because the woman asked for a $700 coat, you make up an excuse for her that she never known poverty. Strange theory given the fact she was wondering how she was going to pay for her daughters education. For two people you claim are no better than each other, it shows your colors when you give an opinion differently based off gender.

[Boethius]

It wasn't because he didn't buy her the coat.  It was because he threw her out immediately thereafter, subsequent to spending a week lying on top of her (his words).  I never posted her actions were right.  But, she isn't posting here, is she?

I expect more of any person coming from a country of wealth to a third world country (and yes, Ukraine is a third world country), male or female.  I also noted how a UM would respond to the situation.

I have posted the above ad nauseum, yet you continue to misrepresent what I have posted.  Are you being being purposely obtuse?

[wiz]

I never posted that the women would be scarred forever.  Just that men with good intentions won't be leading them on.

..........  Any FSU woman who sleeps with a man under promises of marriage is a slut who got what she deserved.  The cyka deserves no consideration or respect.

That is a very nasty comment ! :seething:

[Ade]

That is a very nasty comment ! :seething:

 

Did you read the context in which it was written?

[wiz]

No I don't speak or can read and write English!

Please refer to my previous answer to you and stop addressing me!

[Ade]

No I don't speak or can read and write English!

Please refer to my previous answer to you and stop addressing me!

Damn dude, I can see why you left this place for so long. Wore out your welcome is my  guess.

[Admin]

That is a very nasty comment ! :seething:

wiz,

You quoted a soundbite totally out of context. SJ merely pointed it out - and you took offense - BUT - he was correct.

- Dan

[wiz]

wiz,

You quoted a soundbite totally out of context. SJ merely pointed it out - and you took offense - BUT - he was correct.

- Dan

Dan

I did not take a soundbite out of context:

She made the following statement in a whole paragraph, which has no correclation to the rest of her post! No emoticons or anything to indicate any diferent meaning!

Since it is obviously very important to you, yeah, you win.  Any FSU woman who sleeps with a man under promises of marriage is a slut who got what she deserved.  The cyka deserves no consideration or respect.

I take offence about his insults and personal comments for me, made here and also in another post!

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=10836.new;topicseen#new

I told him that he has been rude and also has no good manners and decided to ignore him but he is insisting with his agrivating tactics.

I can very well take care of myself, retort back on the same rude manner as his, but I am not interested in creating problems on the board.

[Admin]

Dan

I did not take a soundbite out of context:

She made the following statement in a whole paragraph, which has no correclation to the rest of her post! No emoticons or anything to indicate any diferent meaning!

I take offence about his insults and personal comments for me, made here and also in another post!

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=10836.new;topicseen#new

I told him that he has been rude and also has no good manners and decided to ignore him but he is insisting with his agrivating tactics.

I can very well take care of myself, retort back on the same rude manner as his, but I am not interested in creating problems on the board.

wiz,

I had not see this, or the other thread you reference, until you pointed them out.

In this thread, I needed only look at the last couple of pages to see that Boethius (whom I regard VERY highly BTW), was growing exasperated. Her comment was undoubtedly not intended as a since expression of her beliefs and feelings. She was making a point, and I think (hope?) most folks saw that - though, admittedly, without closely following the topic it may have been easy to mis-read.

In terms of the increasing tension with SJ, I trust the two of you will be able to resolve things without rancor.

Thanks for your comment about not wanting to create problems for the board. It is much appreciated.

- Dan

[Ade]

wiz,

I had not see this, or the other thread you reference, until you pointed them out.

In this thread, I needed only look at the last couple of pages to see that Boethius (whom I regard VERY highly BTW), was growing exasperated. Her comment was undoubtedly not intended as a since expression of her beliefs and feelings. She was making a point, and I think (hope?) most folks saw that - though, admittedly, without closely following the topic it may have been easy to mis-read.

In terms of the increasing tension with SJ, I trust the two of you will be able to resolve things without rancor.

Thanks for your comment about not wanting to create problems for the board. It is much appreciated.

- Dan

Dan,

seems to me that Wiz is a little sensitive and prone to overreaction. 

Don't worry, I'll ignore the sad old git from now on.

[Misha]

Since it is obviously very important to you, yeah, you win.  Any FSU woman who sleeps with a man under promises of marriage is a slut who got what she deserved.  The cyka deserves no consideration or respect.

And where exactly did I say this? Again, I see when logic fails, you seek to smear by attributing words to me that were not mine. I stated that women do have a choice: they can choose to sleep with a man, or they can choose not to sleep with a man. Women make choices in their lives, and they must take some responsibility for their choices including those choices that they may regret in the morning  It does not make them a bitch (cyka) it does not mean that they do not deserve no consideration or respect, but it does mean that they are adults capable of thinking things through and deciding for themselves whether the potential benefits outweigh any risks. In other words, I expect women to act as adults capable of looking after their best interests.

Nobody's wife, as we have come to learn from your admonitions of almost every married man on this board, compares to the nobililty and good heartedness of your spouse.

Again, you seem quite capable of insinuating vile motivations into the words and actions of others, yet you quickly become offended when the tables are turned 

[Boethius]

wiz,

In this thread, I needed only look at the last couple of pages to see that Boethius (whom I regard VERY highly BTW), was growing exasperated. Her comment was undoubtedly not intended as a since expression of her beliefs and feelings. She was making a point, and I think (hope?) most folks saw that - though, admittedly, without closely following the topic it may have been easy to mis-read.

Exactly.  It is the attitude about FSU women that was displayed on another thread and carried over to here.  My post was intended as sarcasm and to jolt certain posters into realizing what they are really, underneath it all, saying.

[Admin]

Dan,

seems to me that Wiz is a little sensitive and prone to overreaction. 

Don't worry, I'll ignore the sad old git from now on.

SJ,

The emphasized text falls into the category of name-calling and is not allowed.

Please refrain from such behavior, as it is totally non-productive.

Thanks,

- Dan

[Misha]

and yes, Ukraine is a third world country

How exactly do you define a third world country? Virtually all Ukrainians, have access to running water, electricity, schools, health care, and so forth. True, the average salary in Ukraine is less than in Europe and North America, but it is considerably a lot more than earns the world's poor (often a dollar or less per day). By all objective criteria, Ukraine is far from a "third world" country and I would wager that most Ukrainians would be somewhat insulted if told by a Canadian that their country is such.

[Jumper]

How exactly do you define a third world country? Virtually all Ukrainians, have access to running water, electricity, schools, health care, and so forth. True, the average salary in Ukraine is less than in Europe and North America, but it is considerably a lot more than earns the world's poor (often a dollar or less per day). By all objective criteria, Ukraine is far from a "third world" country and I would wager that most Ukrainians would be somewhat insulted if told by a Canadian that their country is such.

to lighten the mood

there is a recent post here saying you need to make 7 digit salary for a really hot ukrainian girl to be impressed or interested..

third world girls are quite spoiled it seems,,,:)



as far as the topic..

i see boethius point ,
 *some* western men manipulate the situation,due to their advantagiuos position.

and i see mishas point ,that it is also done by local wealthy Ukrainian men..
and the women arn't infantile,they are adults and make their choices.

i think both of you would agree that the person using thier advantage to get something over on another,
,is reprehensible  behavior,
 and that despite being adults, some women are duped quite unfairly..

you probably both agree more than the debate over semantics suggests..

[Misha]

i think both of you would agree that the person using thier advantage to get something over on another, is reprehensible  behavior, and that despite being adults, some women are duped quite unfairly..

Yes, I agree with that. Sure it is not nice when men try to use women, and women try to use men. Yes, some people do get hurt when dating. However, most people learn from their experience, are wiser for it, learn how to avoid such men and women in the future, and then move on. How does the saying go: fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.