Cindy Agency

[JamesTee]

I'm new to this board so forgive me if this question has been asked repeatedly. Does anyone have any opinions about Cindy Agency in Dnepropetrovsk? I didn't see them listed on the honest agency list, but maybe I'm blind. I get a lot of mail from the youngest, best-looking girls on their site and I can't figure out if it's a scam. I'm young enough and not unattractive, but just wondering how these girls don't have hundreds of guys writing to them.

[catzenmouse]

A poster here [user=238]groovlstk[/user]  has used them and had good experiences (If I remember correctly and  groovlstk please correct me if I am misremembering as I did not take  the time to go back and re-read your experiences) and I used them for a  bit though I did not end up going to see the ladies I was writing to. I  found them to be quite good to deal with.

Ken

[anono]

hi james..  i have and will continue to use cindy agency.

however, i must report that i have received a "first letter" from a lady i not only met, but had "relations" with,  after the fact.

i think a lot, maybe even a vast majority of agencies send out introduction letters in the name of the ladies at the agency.

this is how i met my current girlfriend. i thought she sent me a letter first, she thought i sent her a letter first. we discussed this. i am happy the agency (not cindy agency) sent me the letter becuase i doubt i would have met her otherwise.

this practice has been discussed in another thread. it's not a good practice but it is one of the more benign things agencies do.

[anono]

hey ken, i think groove is aware of what i just typed above about CA.

like most agencies, i think the best way to utilize them is just show up and select women to meet. no wasted letters to who knows who. this is what groove basically did, but he also wrote to a few also. i am reasonable sure once you start up correspondence with a lady, it is real. i do understand a lot of the times a letter is read and responded to over the phone.

groove is in a very good position to comment about CA.

[groovlstk]

My experience with Cindy is mostly positive, but please be aware of a  few caveats. They often remove email addresses and home phone numbers  from the girls' responses to you. When I first discovered this I was  angry, but I mellowed a bit when I came to realize that they spend a  chunk of change on photographing and marketing these girls + paying  their programmers to update the website. I wish they'd be upfront and  state that no email addresses or phone #s will be exchanged until X  number of letters have been traded, allowing them to recoup their  investment. But I'm not their business manager. Just be smart about  it... if a girl doesn't answer your questions or seems to be using an  email template, don't waste your time/money.

I never received bogus letters from new girls, but I made it clear with  Ann (the manager) before my trips that I had concrete plans to visit so  she knew I wasn't a keyboard cowboy.

One thing I wasn't crazy about is that since they're very eager for  girls to write back to you, their interpretors will phone your girl  and, if she's too busy to stop by the office and write you, they'll  "dictate" her response to you through email. As you can probably guess,  these responses are short and often cold.

I wouldn't show up at the office without having written girls before  arrival since they have a 3-letter minimum to each girl, which if not  met means you'll pay $15 for the introduction/first meeting. Each  translated letter costs $4 so you're better off using the fee to lay  some groundwork before you arrive, if even to weed out girls you're not  interested in so that you save an evening or afternoon for something  better.

Thanks to Robert, I can give you this tip which worked out very well  for me: When you first arrive at the office, corner Ann (or her  husband, Andrew) and explain to her/him that you're serious in your  search and not some sex tourist and ask that your list of girls you  plan to meet be reviewed. If Ann or Andrew isn't there, ask Katya (she  does most of the day-to-day management, from what I saw) the same  question. Katya pared off three or four professional daters for me  which allowed me to spend more time with serious girls.

I realize this post sounds negative re: Cindy, but as long as you go  into it knowing the rules of engagement you'll do OK. Maybe it's the  best we can expect, given the horrid nature of this business.

On my last trip I met a really sweet girl that, because of another  engagment, I couldn't follow up with after one date. I'd be glad to  recommend her for you if you send me a PM.

I hope Michelangelo will post his opinions on Cindy, as he also has some experience.

[TwoBitBandit]

I've used Cindy agency and was reasonably happy with them.  Most of their girls are sincere, although I also met some professional daters.

I had one girl there (Elena #1943) who thought it would be fun to bring a couple of her friends along on the date and see if I would take them all to dinner.  As soon as I realized what was going on I politely excused myself and left them.

I had a couple of girls simply not show up.

[Jack]

James, if you deal with agencies like the Cindy agency then your pursuit for a Russian bride will be more effecint and fun. They are without any doubt, in my book, one of the top 20 Ukraine/Russian marriage agencies in the world.

No agency is going to be without some questionable women. All agencies can and will have suspect women. And we have some loose cannons on this side of the water as well. You can't take every report you hear as being the gospel. But look at many reports, and with agencies that have been around five years or so your going to be able to find many reports, look at the number of good compared to the number of bad reports. Everyone's going to have two or three, just because you can never please everyone. But if you have a couple of hundred good reports for every two or three bad reports, I'd recommend doing business with them.

Hope that helps James. In other words, their good, use them.

[Aleksia]

Jack is right. when a woman wants to become a client, she always tell that she is sincere, looking for a second half, etc. etc. you can not be sure what her real intentions are. the same goes to men of course.

[catzenmouse]

I've  used Cindy agency and was reasonably happy with them. Most of their  girls are sincere, although I also met some professional daters.

I had one girl there (Elena #1943) who thought it would be fun to bring  a couple of her friends along on the date and see if I would take them  all to dinner. As soon as I realized what was going on I politely  excused myself and left them.

I had a couple of girls simply not show up.

I was curious about Elena #1943 and looked around the site a bit and I  have to say "WOW!" they have a lot more stunning ladies than when I was  using their service.

 Damn! Being married to a beautiful RW is really getting in the way of my dating! :D:P

Ken

[groovlstk]

James, if you deal with agencies like the Cindy agency then your pursuit for a Russian bride will be more effecint and fun. They are without any doubt, in my book, one of the top 20 Ukraine/Russian marriage agencies in the world.

No agency is going to be without some questionable women. All agencies can and will have suspect women. And we have some loose cannons on this side of the water as well. You can't take every report you hear as being the gospel. But look at many reports, and with agencies that have been around five years or so your going to be able to find many reports, look at the number of good compared to the number of bad reports. Everyone's going to have two or three, just because you can never please everyone. But if you have a couple of hundred good reports for every two or three bad reports, I'd recommend doing business with them.

Hope that helps James. In other words, their good, use them.

Jack, I don't think any agency as big as Cindy can be held responsible if they have some professional daters or scammers, they can't be intimately familiar with every girl and anyone who thinks they should be is being unreasonable. At issue is not the individual girls, but the policies of the owners.

My #1 caveat about Cindy is that they sometimes remove phone numbers and email addresses from the girls' responses, without stating this policy up front to their clients. This is not based on a single "bad report" on my part; I've experienced it with multiple Cindy girls (who were spittin' mad when I told them I never received their mobile #s, which they'd repeatedly sent during our correspondence, after we eventually met) over the course of three trips in the last six months,  as has every man I've spoken with who has used Cindy. I know for a fact that this happens and it doesn't happen at the translator level.

That said, I will not condemn Ann or Andrew because in every other regard they were very professional and efficient, and every girl I met from Cindy was pretty much as advertised. If I return to Ukraine again I will definitely use Cindy. I understand Cindy invests in each girl on their site and if a new girl has her own email account and the agency is cut out after her first exchange with a man, they lose their investment.

I have no axe to grind here, on the whole I'm pleased with Cindy. But James needs to recognize that he's the only person in this matrix who has his best interests at heart, and Cindy's commitment to their bottom line takes precedence over his needs. If he understands this simple fact going in, his skepticism will help prevent him from being gouged excessively. 

 

 

[Journeyman]

I've been watching the CindyAgency web site for over a year.  On that basis, only, I would have some concerns (although that is not unique to CindyAgency).

It seems to me that CindyAgency is employing more and more of those provocative photographs for its newer ladies -- of the kind that Elena's Models also tended to increasingly employ during the last 2 years -- more and more skin and lingerie.  AFA did that for a while too, but seemed to back off that approach -- at least for a little the time being.  Of course, AFA has been receiving and re-publishing CindyAgency profiles for quite a while now, and so there is that overlap, too.

In my experience, there is a pretty consistent inverse relationship between the sincerity of a girl, and the degree to which she is presented in these provacative photos.  Duh!  When I was a newbie in 2000, I bought the propaganda line that ...... oh, sexuality is just viewed differently in the FSU, and these can still be nice, innocent girls.  Yeah, right.  Yes, no question that most all of Europe is much less prudish and Puritanical than America, but ........ you can only take that so far.

However, it is not just the individual girls that are at issue, but the sincerity of the agency itself.  The increasing use of these photos at the supposedly more reputable agencies should raise some questions -- although not necessarily answer them.  Again, IMO, Elena's Models is a prime example of an agency increasingly succumbing to the dark side.

As others (with first-hand CindyAgency experience) have noted above, CindyAgency isn't always entirely honest regarding first letters, email forwarding, etc.  On the other hand, they are probably still are a cut above some of the other agencies out there.  So I don't recommend throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

What do you other guys make of this?  How would you characterize the drivers of this phenomena?

Increasingly insincere girls?
Increasingly insincere agencies?
More desperate girls using more desperate measures?
More desperate agencies using more desperate measures?
False profiles by agencies to catch they eye?
Simply a reflection of differing views about wearing provacative attire?
Much ado about nothing?

Now, let me also note that this phenomena also represents probably less than 2% of all profiles out there at the supposedly legitimate agencies.  So, not a huge worry.  But, in my years of viewing agency web sites, it does seem that one of the first indicators of questionable ethics does involve an increased publication of such photos.  Hey, yea, I'm a normal guy and like to see them too.  However, just like the gentleman that started this thread, I'd like to end up with a sincere girl.  Actually, not only end up with one, but start out with one, too.

Since 2002, my rule of thumb has been -- if I'm not comfortable in showing a girl's agency photos to my friends and family, she's probably not a girl that I should meet.  Of course, there are a million other potential pitfalls and red flags.  However, photos are a quick tip, in my book.  But, again, what does it say about the agency, itself?

Anybody else with 2 cents on this?

Journeyman

PS.  Edit to add that I just noticed that Jack recently started a thread in the Scammers section that seems to be related to this -- re agencies posting photos of models.

[groovlstk]

I'd have to say that part or even most of the blame for Cindy, or any agency, posting racy photos of their girls lies with their clients. If they weren't seeing a big response to these girls in terms of letters (and letters = income, in Cindy's case), then what else is their motivation for doing it?

I've received a few letters from girls in various stages of undress and simply deleted the letters and discounted any contact with the girls. I'm not a prude but any girl who will bear her nipples for public consumption isn't someone I'd consider bringing home to mom.

But I'm sure the keyboard jockeys who aren't serious or are semi-serious might get a jolt out of communicating with beautiful, sexy girls who will gladly inflate their wretched egos by writing that their biggest dream in life is meeting them in person.

This brings up another point: A lot has been said on these boards about irresponsible, gullible, and foolish men who travel to the FSU and throw money around, behave rudely, and in general make the MOB business attractive to scammers and professional daters--who in turn make it much more difficult for men with serious intentions. We've seen these guys in the field, they're not legion but there's not shortage of this breed in the bigger cities. But what about the guys who write letters to girls simply for their own twisted emotional needs yet never intend to visit? Unfortunately the percentage of these guys who are active in the MOB scene will probably always remain in the shadows, they'll continue to be encouraged by agencies because it's good for business, and I doubt agency owners will shed light on how big this problem is since there's nothing to gain for them by exposing it.  

[NDOC]

Groovlstk,

Good points all around, but IMHO the guy that writes letters and never pulls the trigger on travel or marriage is in another group.  I don't think many men would pay good money to write to women just for the sake of building up some poor girls hopes and dashing them.  That goes beyond cruel and straight to twisted.  I think a lot of these guys correspond with GWs because it's safe.

I work in a prison system and we have lots of "pen pals" writing to inmates.  I think that anyone that would want to start any kind of relationship with an inmate is completely nuts, but both men and women write every day.  Writing lets them have some kind of relationship but at a very safe distance and with a maximum amount of control.  They can be whomever they want to be in letters and if they get a funky vibe or it gets too serious too fast, they quit writing...no need for a dear John letter or meeting.  They get the feeling of being wanted or desired without the emotional risks (or physical risks in the case of inmates) of being in an equal or near equal relationship.

Writing RWs is more or less the same thing.  You get the ego stroke of having some kind of relationship with a beautiful picture and you have an easy exit strategy once you run out of things to write about and have to fish or cut bait.  Agencies know a large number of these men will never pull the trigger and travel.  These men are too insecure and the difference between what they've written and who they are is so great that meeting the girl would only lead to embarrassment and rejection.  It's the relatively brave, honest few that get past their fear of being scammed, fear of rejection, etc. to go to the other side of the earth to meet the girls.  The agency owners would know better, but my best guess is that 1 man gets married for every 5 that travels and for every man that travels there are 50 that only correspond.

As for the provocative photos, I'm sure a lot of it is scamming, but I also think there's an element of desperation here.  Sometimes I have the "what does a girl have to do to get a date from you shy westerners?" vibe from the girl's narrative.  My best guess is that if the girl was sincere and if the photos were completely in the buff, you'd still have a large portion of men that can't pull the trigger.  There a certain portion of the population that is so cynical or so shy that they won't go any farther even if the girl is throwing herself at them. 

Just my 2 cents

[wendaaaal]

    I used Cindy Agency a couple of years ago. Decided to check out Krivoy Rog, so used them for meeting at Dnepropetrovsk Airport, a flat in K.R. and some interpreting. Well taken care of on the ground there, at decent prices.
Got lots of unsolicited mail from their girls. Mostly ignored it. Sent a few basic intro type letters to girls in K.R. Told them a bit about me, when I'd be there, would you like to meet? From previous trips I'd decided any more written correspondence was a waste of time (was going to write "circle jerk" but waste of time sounds better   ). Wouldn't hesitate to use them, but embark on any letter writing campaign with patience, scepticism, and a huge grain of salt, IMHO. Cheers, Wendell in Austin

[Turboguy]

Some of us have had good luck with letter writing campains Wendaaal.   It is best to not drag them on too long.  Find one you like go meet her, as well as a few others just in case.

[info_man]

I will have to disagree about 1943 being hot, and considering she was  rude enough to ask if her friends could come along makes her that much  less attractive.

Is it me or does #2630 and #622 look like dudes...

Info_Man

[Michelangelo]

My experience with Cindy is mostly positive, but please be aware of a  few caveats...

I hope Michelangelo will post his opinions on Cindy, as he also has some experience.

I think the cindy agency is fine.  As Groove has reported, they do "edit" out personal contact information.  The girl I was most interested in meeting kept saying she would "meet me at the airport" but she was not there when I arrived.  I called the agency manager Anna from the airport and threw such a fit she gave me the girls number and I did see her that night.

The office staff at Cindy is very nice as are the terps I met.  You can go in thier office and make dates and have a nice time.

Groove commented on the fact that the agency calls the girls and reads your letters to them.  For me, that resulted in overly warm letters from one girl who wanted to meet me.  She almost died later when I read to her what "she" had "written." The agency makes you think the girl is crazy about you!

For us, it worked for the best.  Becasue I thought she was so eager to meet me, I made her my number one girl. And now, four months together, she is my only girlfriend.

Cindy worked for me.

[Michelangelo]

[user=686]info_man[/user] wrote:

I will have to disagree about 1943 being hot, and considering she was  rude enough to ask if her friends could come along makes her that much  less attractive.

Is it me or does #2630 and #622 look like dudes...

Info_Man

Yep, 2360 looks like a dude.  and nope, 1943 is not hot.

But one girl i met is definately a beautiful giant-2375.   I almost died in her presence!  But alas, she was far to young for me.

And I found a much more beautuful girl there anyway, inside and out.  And BTW, smart girls downplay their pictures so they lose the sex tourist.  My girlfreind is a 9.5 in reality but only an 8 by her profile pic....

[TwoBitBandit]

[user=686]info_man[/user] wrote:

I will have to disagree about 1943 being hot, and considering she was  rude enough to ask if her friends could come along makes her that much  less attractive.

1943 was definitely not hot when I met her.  If she was a beauty queen and she had tried to get me to take her and her two friends out for dinner, I would have just waved it off as business-as-usual in MOB.  But, she was pretty average-looking, which made me wonder where she got the audacity to try to pull this off.