Dental Work

[Vaughn]

"This is quite common in my old country" said the Russian-born dentist today in the consultation
room. "We haven't seen such techniques in our American system, and I'm going back at least
15 years." She was being charitable. My wife's teeth look pretty good, but below the gums there
is big trouble in paradise. The X-rays revealed a few pins that resembled sheetrock screws, with
threads clearly visible. Root canals that came up 4 mm short of completion. Bone decay.

In 2006, we visited Elvira's home in Yoshkar Ola, where in the course of her 4-week stay she submitted
to some major dental work in a blistering series of visits, maybe 12 in all. She was insistent on saving
money by getting around the US system. Root canals, caps, crowns etc. What a mistake we made,
and I blame myself for not having been more forceful about the risks over there. The dentist came
with glowing recommendations, the best in Mari-El Republic.

Problems exist in all four quadrants, with one particularly in need of urgent restoration where the
bone structure has been compromised - and is deteriorating rapidly. Specialists will be involved,
including an endodontist and an oral surgeon.

My Russian is too weak to fully explain the technical difficulties she faces - and her comprehension
of English is also sorely lacking in such matters. In short, we are revisiting language barrier. The
practice we've located, fortunately, is fluent both ways. Dr Yelena Brikina even secured her DDS
at my alma mater on Long Island, SUNY at Stony Brook.

I should have paid more attention and assigned more significance to threads on this subject.

[kievstar]

Hi Vaughn,

I have seen several Russian / Ukraine dentists in the USA and they tell me how bad the dentistry is there.  What cracks me up is there men on this board who go to Ukraine because of the cheap price and get work done.  10 to 15 years after the work they had done they will realize what cheap dentistry is all about.  Plus they use  x-ray machines with radiation in many offices that are off the chart on what was allowed even 20 years ago in the USA. 

You pay for what you get. 

[ConnerVT]

After dealing with this for 6+ years, it truly goes both ways.

Some of my wifes early dental work don in Russia was many years (decades?) behind what modern methods and materials are currently used in the USA.  Our US dentist always says bad things about the repairs she has had to make to FSU dentistry.  And she sees a lot, as her husband is an active ESL teacher here in the area.  (Lots of referals)

Last summer, my wife had some signifigant dental work done when she was in Russia.  Root canal, bridge, crowns.  She was hesitatnt when it was time to visit our US dentist for her cleaning/checkup, for fear of her response to seeing new dental work from the FSU.

The dentist spent considerable time inspecting the work, and said it was nearly as good as what she could of expected here in the USA.  When my wife told her how much (how little) it cost, our dentist easily agreed that she had done the right thing.

So it all comes down to who you have do the work.  Not as much oversight on these things in the FSU as we have in the USA.

[Enot]

My wife had broken needles in her gums and ended up pulling 4 teeth.  We are currently in the process of having implants done in the USA.  Most doctors/dentists I know or had experience with in the FSU are pretty bad.  I wouldn't risk having dental work there.

[Vaughn]

We are currently in the process of having implants done in the USA.

Implants were a part of our consultation today. I didn't realize that (at least in
my wife's case) they will need to stimulate bone growth in the hopes that the
implant would be able to fuse naturally - hence, we opted for a bridge in that
quadrant. Good luck to you and your wife in this process, Enot.

I should have known to trust my gut. Yoshkar Ola was once a munitions city, and not
exactly a metropolis. All the good doctors and dentists flock to where the big rubles are.

[KenC]

While the local dentist was highly complimentary of the dental work done in Russia, he still insisted on redoing everything with more modern technology and materials.  $10 grand later, Lena's teeth were good to go.

I do recall Jack Bragg highly reccomending a dentist in Kiev.  According to him, there are a few good dentists in Ukraine but they are far and few between.  Most charge too much for the locals to use but are still way below American costs.
KenC

[GQBlues]

Vaughn-

I had my wife read your post and these words came out of her mouth...

"Exactly like mine"

She took it upon herself when we were dating to have her teeth fixed. What was once 32 proud, 3 were root canals. It wasn't until about 2 years later when she started gurgling with salted, warm water every night. When asked, she told me she was feeling a bit of discomfort with her teeth.

Apparently, the work she received mirrored your wife's. Additionally, they didn't fully finished the fillings thus she actually had air pockets inside the crowns.

Dentist / Endodontist care for two that almost hit 5 figures. The last one was the toughest one because of the root & bone decay which required an oral surgeon.  ka-ching...

My dentist was very careful in giving her his opinion about the type of work she received out of decency. But wasn't as shy about it to both me and our bank account 

[Rutherford]

We are in the process of having my wife's  dental work done on Mexico  , just across from Yuma  .

Get this , to have a wisdom tooth pulled here , $350  .
In Mexico ,  $35  .
To complete my wife's dental work  here , $3500.
Under a thousand in Mexico , we assume

Consider  the following info   below
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=dental+tourism&aq=8&aqi=g10&oq=dental+t&fp=4b0e053116aeea03

[Admin]

While the local dentist was highly complimentary of the dental work done in Russia, he still insisted on redoing everything with more modern technology and materials.  $10 grand later, Lena's teeth were good to go.

I do recall Jack Bragg highly reccomending a dentist in Kiev.  According to him, there are a few good dentists in Ukraine but they are far and few between.  Most charge too much for the locals to use but are still way below American costs.
KenC

I had a number of old amalgam fillings replaced in Kyiv with modern composite materials. I've had several check-ups since, and the dentist has had nothing but compliments about the work they performed in Kyiv.

Having said that, the work I had done was pretty mild. It was merely removing old fillings and replacing them with new materials. For that, if a modern facility is selected, the price cannot be beat. I recall it being less than $200 USD for quite a number of filling replacements - probably 8 or 10.

Also, Olya needed a fair amount of dental work upon arrival in the US in 2001. In Ukraine, she had always been self-conscious about her smile and often 'hid' it with her hand a bit. After the work here - which involved fillings, crowns, at least one post for an entirely rebuilt tooth, root canals, and numerous veneers - she stopped hiding her lovely smile.

BTW - one of those veneers (VERY expensive BTW) managed to chip a while back. They come from Europe (Italy or Germany, IIRC) and the cost for a single replaced veneer was well over $1000 - nearly two.

- Dan

PS. FWIW - I don't seem to have much problem with dental work no matter where it is. I had my first and only root canal performed in Edinburgh (Scotland), and I've had fillings (not the ones replaced in Kyiv) performed in Manila. No real problem with any of it.

[Markus]

The x-rays showed my wife is missing a molar tooth. Our dentist said the previous dentist probably just pulled the tooth
instead of fixing it. That's the only thing wrong she had. Her jaw is beginning to hurt some so it looks like her wisdom
teeth will becoming out soon. Then she wants braces due to a couple of her teeth being a little crooked. I don't
think her teeth look bad at all, but, we're going to get it done..gotta keep the wife happy.

Mark

[RussianWind]

What I find annoying in these threads is that speaking of Ukraine you mean the whole FSU segment. Today we are two different countries with different development, techniques, laws and income. When will you understand this? 

At least in big cities we have lot of modern dantist clinics with modern materieals, equipment and good specialists. They are not cheap but they are cheaper than in America.

[kievstar]

You really do not know about dental work until 10-15 years later. 

You guys also now about needles and tools not being very clean in Ukraine. Again, You pay for what you get.

[Aloe]

I have one filling, made so long ago i cant remember, probably 10-15 years ago, and its still good  Im perfectly happy with FSU dentistry 
My dentist at home told me to pull all wisdom teeth 2 years ago, cuz there is no space for them if they ever surface, still havent done it, i guess i better go to a dentist 

[SANDRO43]

Additionally, they didn't fully finished the fillings thus she actually had air pockets inside the crowns.

Good thing she didn't do any scuba diving then . On the way to our diving site in the Maldives - where what few local dentists were in Male only, the capital island, a 6-hour boat trip away - a fellow diver was telling the rest of us of the problems he had experienced the previous year in the Caribbean due to air pockets in his fillings. He had seen his dentist just the month before to have those problems fixed.

Reaching the desired spot, we suited up and dove. 15 meters down, he made a strangled noise and shot up to the surface - apparently, his problems had not been totally fixed, and he could make no further dives in his remaining days there, increasing air pressure at depth was playing hell with his tooth nerves .

[viking]

Aloe

Dont pull your wisdom teeth out unless you have to. They can stay there forever. Dont make a problem if there is none.

[groovlstk]

Don't even get me started on this subject    Last year my wife needed $15,000 worth of dental work. And that's out-of-pocket, tack on another $3k that my insurance covered. She still needs more work done. We went to three different dentists for evaluations and every single one was appalled at the shoddy work she had done in Moscow.

Ironically, when our Russian friends heard about this, they urged her to fly to Moscow to have the work done there rather than in the US since it would be cheaper 
One of our friends, a RM, still chides me about "wasting" all this money. When he busts my chops about it my wife and I try to hide our grins - because when he laughs at his own witty routine he reveals a mouthful containing about a dozen discolored teeth.

It's really hit or miss depending on the quality of the dentist, so buyer beware.

[Misha]

At least in big cities we have lot of modern dantist clinics with modern materieals, equipment and good specialists.

The problem is that the modern clinics and modern materials does not help much if the dentists were not fully trained as to how work with that equipment.

[GQBlues]

increasing air pressure at depth was playing hell with his tooth nerves .

That was saying that mildly Sandro.

When my dentist showed me the X-rays of my wife's gnashers and pointed at those air pockets, the first thing that raced in me was anger because of the knowledge I had with an ex-GF's Dad. He got a root canal done in Fiji where he was living at the time. When he flew back to the westcoast, with the shoddy job done with his fillings, the loose packing of the material created a havoc inside the tooth. The change in the air pressure moved the pocket of expanding air to the path of least resistance. Which was towards his soft tissue/nerves. He said never had he had a feeling of wanting to die than those agonizing moments. Flight from Fiji I believe was a cool 12 hours.

(Just like those liquified products we carry in plastic bottles in our suitcases and bags i.e.  eye drops, toothpastes, lotion, etc... You don't squeeze the air out prior to your flights, chances are the pressure will shoot whatever poduct you have out of the containers).

My wife since arriving to the US had spent a whole lot of time flying and to think she had 3 of those inside her mouth. Luckily, none were anywhere near soft tissues.

[Enot]

Implants were a part of our consultation today. I didn't realize that (at least in
my wife's case) they will need to stimulate bone growth in the hopes that the
implant would be able to fuse naturally - hence, we opted for a bridge in that
quadrant. Good luck to you and your wife in this process, Enot.

I should have known to trust my gut. Yoshkar Ola was once a munitions city, and not
exactly a metropolis. All the good doctors and dentists flock to where the big rubles are.

Thanks Vaughn, I think we found a good oral surgeon here and he has a good reputation with 2 dentists in my city.

The surgeon said my wife might need the bone growth stimulate if her bone would be a problem for the implants but it turned out she didn't need it.  The teeth were pulled in the first place because of infection from the broken needles in her gums.  I think we have everything under control now.  She gets her posts at the end of the month and her crowns sometime in February.  Total cost, almost $10,000.  That's for 3 implants.  We went with implants because the dentist said a bridge would eventually break and we would have to do it all over again.  You might to reconsider implants or ask the dentist if a bridge will last and for how long

Best of luck to your wife with her teeth.

[kievstar]

Aloe,  I thought you were 19 years old?  Even if your 22 - you had issues with your teeth when 7.  Not helping the FSU dentists on cleaning here.

[aikorob]

I am very fortunate in that I have a great dental plan at work. As soon as Nata went on my insurance we visited a dentist and mapped out a course of treatment.

I did not know it, but she had been living with 2 broken drills in one tooth for almost 8 years---the result of a botched root canal in Odessa. The endodontidt spent almost 6 hours total----at one point drilling BY HAND with a 0.5mm bit to get those broken pieces out. He was successful, and she got a crown for that one.

The regular dentist was satisfied with the normal composite fillings from Odessa; and left them alone if they were not showing any deterioration. Unfortunately, this dentist was young, and at the first sign of anything more complicated than a normal filling, she was quick to recommend root canal & crown. We found an older dentist here who actually took the time to make repairs and saved 2 particular teeth.

Even here, the skill set varies widely between dentists.

BTW----Nata has always been very careful with her teeth, even visiting the dental school in Odessa for regular treatments of what she describes as a sort of "electroplating"--a conductive solution with minerals which deposits said minerals on her teeth. Anybody heard of something like this?

[facetrock]

  I have never had dental work done in the FSU. My regular dentist who I have known for decades told me a story a few years ago about some Russian dentists that came to town on some kind of exchange program. He told me they are about where we were back in the sixties for technique and procedures. He has also worked on some Russians and said the work they had done back home was in his words "horrid and frightening."

[Aloe]

Aloe,  I thought you were 19 years old?  Even if your 22 - you had issues with your teeth when 7.  Not helping the FSU dentists on cleaning here.

it has little to do with dentists and a lot to do with little kiddies unwillingness to brush teeth im 21 btw

[Turboguy]

it has little to do with dentists and a lot to do with little kiddies unwillingness to brush teeth im 21 btw

My thoughts were always that it wasn't the lack of brushing teeth but because we add floride to the water supply here that makes the kid's teeth harder and more resistant to cavities.   I doubt there is much difference in the brushing habits here and there.   My own teeth are not my strong point and I grew up right before they started adding floride to the water.

My wife just had a bunch of dental work done in her home city and they seemed to do a great job very reasonably.   

I would really like to get some implants.  I was a little shocked when I saw what they cost in the USA and out of curiosity looked at one site where they were talking about the money you can save getting dental work done out of the country.   One of the countries they listed was Russia and the prices there are very reasonable but I think if I were to go out of the country that would not be my choice of destinations for dental work even though my wife has had good dental work done there.

[kievstar]

Many people in America have well water and no fluoride.  I never had fluoride in the water growing up.

So Aloe - your saying when you were 6 years old you had a filling?  My wording was more of you need to brush your teeth and floss as your making the FSU dentists do more work.

If you put a $ figure on dentist work you pay for what you get.  State of the art dental equipment is almost the same price in every country.  The dentists are not bad its just the equipment they work with. In fact the dentist I see currently in USA said in Ukraine you really had to work hard as the equipment is terrible there.  Have to use your eyes more and heavy radiation X-ray equipment which is banned in most countries.  She says here in the USA with the great equipment and her past experience in Kiev she finds things other USA dentists never find.  Which I think is true.  So find a dentist he did work without good equipment who later has great equipment.  That is the dentist who is going to do a great job more likely.  Just like I find the foreign born doctors in the USA to be far superior than the USA born doctors.