A few questions about a Ukrainian girl I have been writing to

[cessna88]

Hi all,

I have been writing to a Ukrainian girl from Odessa for almost 2 years now, I am only 23 and she is 24. Honestly it just started out as something fun to do, I mean writing to a Ukrainian girl, when I started doing it I had no knowledge of the whole Russian/Ukrainian 'mail order bride' thing. We meet through a free penpal website that had nothing to do with dating, marriage etc.

To cut a long story short she speaks very good english, for a start we would write to each other at least once a week, she has always written long letters and I would write long letters back. Then after about about 6 months it fell back to about 1 letter a month, and it has stayed like that until now.

She has never really said anything about moving out of the Ukraine, but in every letter she says things like she is 'hinting it' if that makes sense. She really wants to have a large family with the 'right man' and I feel like she thinks she wont be able to do that in the Ukraine. I once offered to buy her some gifts for her birthday and send them to her in Ukraine but she refused because she didn't want me to spend money on her. She has never mentioned money or asked me about my material possesions so I know she isn't trying to get money out of me. I live in Australia, I am right to say that if a woman from Eastern Europe wanted to marry a 'western' man purely so she could get residency in another country she would focus on Americans or men from Western Europe? Australia is a great country but I am assuming it wouldn't be first on a list of a Ukrainian womens potential countries to emigrate to? I live in Cairns in North East Australia so it is warm/hot and humid for most of the year.

About 5 weeks ago, after a few to many Friday night drinks (I only drink in weekends and I have told her that), I asked her what she thought about me going to Ukraine to meet her, then I hinted that if we hit it off then I could go home, and we could both think about her emigrating to Australia. She hasn't written to me since, so I am getting a little bit worried that she didn't have that in mind. Luckily, due to connections in the family I have a well paid job that most people would find 'interesting', although most people think my wrongly think that it is a dangerous job. I get 2 months off work in about 10 months time, that is why I suggested it. That is the first time I (or her) have suggested being anything more than penpals. I have read on the net that they would almost never consider marrying a younger man, in fact they like there husbands to be at least 10 years, even 20 years older than themselves. We have both sent each other many photos of each other, and I have always been sure hers were real photos.

I have told her that I want to start a family as soon as I find the right women, just as she does. We have similar goals in life, she wants to travel the world just as I do, something I think she wont be able to do if she stays in Ukraine.

She is beautiful (aren't they all?) she is polite and caring.I have had 3 girlfriends in Australia and Canada, they were all charming and seemed 'perfect' for a start then they showed there true colours, so I am somewhat 'scared' about starting another relationship with another Western woman.

How expensive is internet in Odessa? I assume she goes to Internet cafes to write to me, I always feel a little guilty because I know she doesn't earn much money and she must spend alot on the internet time to write to me.

If anyone would like to take the time to comment on this 'situation' I would greatly appreciate it. I know that I should have thought about it more before asking her a potentially life changing question but what done is done.

Thanks, 

cessna











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[Sculpto]

You never talked to her on the phone?

[cessna88]

No  I guess I thought we could do that later, I was going to be away from the net for 3 weeks when I wrote the last letter so I though why not...I could talk to her on the phone closer to the time I go to Ukraine if it happens.

How could she talk to me over the phone though? Do they have places that you can recieve International calls from? I have always naively assumed she didn't have a phone at home, she lives in a hostel, so maybe they do have a shared phone.

[Sculpto]

they all have cell phones.  Never met a FSUW that didn't.  If you ask her for her phone number and she claims she doesn't have one.. it is usually sign of a scam.

[Handycam72]

Hi Cessna and welcome to RWD.

As 2012 has said, the chances of her NOT having a phone (cell phone) are very remote, the one thing the girls of Odessa have is phones. Have you asked her for her number?

As for internet access it is available with great ease in Odessa, have you wrote to her since your last message 5 weeks ago?

[Sculpto]

not only that but chances are she has a profile on vkontakte.  do you know her full name?  have you googled her email address?

[cessna88]

Ok thanks, I will ask her if she ever writes back. I thought that considering the average wage over there is something like $200USD a month I assumed she would have more important things to spend her money on.

I really don't think she is scamming me, if she is she isn't a very good scam-artist. I'm only 23 and I have a large student loan so I thought she would figure that she wouldn't get any money out of me if she was a scammer. Maybe she is, but I don't think so. It has been fun and interesting writing to her anyway.

No, I haven't written to her since, I only got back to civilisation recently, and I'm about to leave again in 3 days, I am doing a 12 month work contract in the hell-holes of the world.

Thanks again, anymore input would be appreciated.  

[cessna88]

Maybe I should have come on this site earlier 

Yes I have her full name, but I googled vkontakte, then I said 'translate this page' and then it said 'THIS IS NOT VKONTAKTE AND NOT VK SITE'

Anyone else had this problem?

[Handycam72]

Best bet is to just go to www.vkontakte.ru you shouldn't need to translate it to join, you will need your cell number as they will sms you activation code.

Also send her a message, she might be sat there waiting for you to write to her, it doesn't need to be a long letter. 

[KenC]

cessna,
You can buy a calling card to phone her and it is very cheap.  I cannot help you in Australia, but we do have some members from there.  I suggest you PM a guy called I/O for any help concerning Australia.  Another thing I would like to point out that your comments of 10 to 20 years older for the man is a fallacy.  Most women from the fsu prefer men closer to their age.  But in all seriousness, you may have some difficulty in they taking you serious at 23.  Even though you seem very mature, just know that your age may work against you.
KenC
(Another member that has great knowledge of Ukraine from Australia is Kuna, but he doesn't post often any more.)

[Sculpto]

not suggesting your penpal is a scammer.. most likely she is not.  But it can't help to make sure before you get too emotional about reconnecting with her.  about the delay in her response right now..

if she lives at the student hostel there is a good chance she is nto exactly from Odessa and she might be home for holidays.  She might live someplace where there is not easy internet access.  Classes should start up again in a week or two.

[cessna88]

Well I tried to give them my cell number with the correct country codes etc and nothing has arrived yet.

I should have gone onto this site a long time ago, I have been looking around these forums and I am shocked! I know there are good and bad women in every country but I can't think of a woman I have met, doing something like some of the things I have read about on this forum, esp in the married section! I am hoping (wrong word?) that some of the guys that posted the horror stories are real scum-bags, maybe then I could believe some of the stories.

I noticed a few guys have travelled to the FSU over 10 times and they have only been married to a FSU for 0-2 years! Sounds expensive.

[Sculpto]

Cessna it is expensive.  But there are ways to make it less expensive.  We can talk about that later. 

Vkontakte just started this phone verification thing and that may well ruin it for people not in the FSU.  Please let us know if you get a reply on your phone.  It would be a pity if that resource is no longer easily accessible to those outside the FSU.  Are you 100% sure you entered your international phone number correctly?

[BillyB]

I really don't think she is scamming me, if she is she isn't a very good scam-artist. I'm only 23 and I have a large student loan so I thought she would figure that she wouldn't get any money out of me if she was a scammer. Maybe she is, but I don't think so. It has been fun and interesting writing to her anyway.

He/she probably doesn't know your only 23 and borrowing money for education. He/she probably doesn't read your letters but send a series of canned letters talking about hopes and dreams. Most scammers don't ask for money. They talk about problems in their lives that are solved with money and there are always plenty of men willing to be heroes. Even if 10 guys give him/her $50 a month for internet cafe, that's enough motivation to keep writing guys like you forever.

Get on the phone with him/her and if it's a "she" talk often. A scammer can only be enthusiastic to hear your voice for a short time before getting bored with you or any guy that's not sending money.

[Sculpto]

Billy.. I see you are jumping to conclusions again.  They met on a penpal site.  Go be negative someplace else please.

[BillyB]

  They met on a penpal site. 

Most people don't expect to get scammed on dating sites and marriage agencies either. Scammers go where you don't expect. You remember the time when you got scammed? Don't tell me scams don't exist on pen pal sites.

http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/pen-pal-scams-beware-of-the-million-dollar-scam/403160

[Boethius]

But, at the same time, a lot of Ukrainians write to pen pals to improve their English.  Most of them aren't scammers.

[BillyB]

But, at the same time, a lot of Ukrainians write to pen pals to improve their English.  Most of them aren't scammers.

Most RW at dating sites and marriage agencies aren't scammers either but they are everywhere. Scammers take advantage of the naive and try to earn the trust of those who aren't naive.

Cessna doesn't seem eager to get on the phone with the pen pal. Until he talks and talks often, he doesn't know who he's dealing with.

Cessna, in letters does she ask you questions about your life often and answer every question you ask of her? Does she write about her life, hopes and dreams mostly?

[cessna88]

He/she probably doesn't know your only 23 and borrowing money for education. He/she probably doesn't read your letters but send a series of canned letters talking about hopes and dreams. Most scammers don't ask for money. They talk about problems in their lives that are solved with money and there are always plenty of men willing to be heroes. Even if 10 guys give him/her $50 a month for internet cafe, that's enough motivation to keep writing guys like you forever.

That sure made me think, I just think if she was scamming me she would have asked me for at least something after 2 years, she hasn't even hinted anything like that. She has finished university recently, she now has a job that involves speaking quite a bit of English, that is why she started writing to me, to improve her English. She does often mention how she works such long hours, but apart from that, thinking back, she hasn't actually said anything negative about her life, she seems very happy and positve. She asked me alot of questions about my work and my life in general, I ask her alot of questions also, I think we try to keep it even. Sometimes she doesn't answer minor questions, but I'm sure I do aswell considering the length of our letters.

I will ask if she wants to talk over the phone, I would love to do that even though I will have to be up at all hours of the morning.

cessna

[Avis]

cheers guys,

see you're talking about scammers and all that stuff again

cessna, try not to get too suspicious about someone you've been staying in contact with for such a long time, it's just not fair to them and to you in the first place i promise you not every Russian/Ukrainian girl on the internet is a scammer.

follow your own feelings and be sensible when necessary and you'll be fine.

if you need any help with searching for some info on vkonatke.ru then i could try and do smth for you

[RussianWind]

I live in Australia, I am right to say that if a woman from Eastern Europe wanted to marry a 'western' man purely so she could get residency in another country she would focus on Americans or men from Western Europe? Australia is a great country but I am assuming it wouldn't be first on a list of a Ukrainian womens potential countries to emigrate to?

Don't worry. They consider Australia to be a good country for living.

I have read on the net that they would almost never consider marrying a younger man, in fact they like there husbands to be at least 10 years, even 20 years older than themselves.

Don't belive this BS. Agencies tell these fairy tales to attract older men and to earn good money.

[Nat]

cessna88, this is a great site and a great forum, but it seems to me, not in your case. You see, here from the very beginning people are in internet dating, which sometimes does involve scams and so on. Your situation is absolutely different - you made friends with a girl, you virtually know each other for 2 years and you are pen friends.
After you read this forum, which is full of reports about scams, gold diggers and so on, you might get really suspicious and it seems to me you might screw your friendship. Keep in mind the fact, that it all started with friendship and it's you who wants to transform it to another level - the level of romance, so it seems to me there are no reasons to worry that she can be a scammer.
About paying the internet - she decided to improve her English and that's why she found you and may be other people and is corresponding with you. So it seems to me she knows what she's doing.
About phone calls - do it only if you really feel that you need to start phone communication and you know what to talk about, not because you read such advice on the internet. If you feel like communicating over the phone, ask her for her cell phone number or her home phone number.
About "expensive" trips to Ukraine. It's expensive, if you consider it as some spendings on marriage process. But have you ever been to Ukraine? Would you like to visit it as a tourist? Would you like to see your pen friend in real life? If yes - just arrange a tourist trip to Odessa. You have at least a friend, if not a girlfriend there - you can ask her to show you around. In any case you'll get an image of Ukraine and you'll visit a new country. You said you like travelling - so just travel and enjoy new culture. You don't have an aim to marry right now, right? So even if it's not gonna work, you'll just have a nice exotic holiday
And about "her not being able to create a family in Ukraine, to travel and so on". Do you really have romantic feelings towards the girl or you just feel pity? Do you like her as a person, do you like her as a woman, or you just want to help her? If you like her as a person, woman and friend and may be want to create a family with her, it's a right motivation
Well, of course all what I've said is my personal opinion, as well as other posts here, and you better think yourself, because only you know this girl for 2 years, and we all here know her only from your description

[SANDRO43]

Yes I have her full name, but I googled vkontakte, then I said 'translate this page' and then it said 'THIS IS NOT VKONTAKTE AND NOT VK SITE' Anyone else had this problem?

One way to get around that would be to register as a member.

Their main page has a menu at left with Мои Настройки (My Setttings) at bottom. If you click that, you'll get another page with Язык (Language) as last item but one, by default set to Русский. Open its pull-down menu and set it to English: you'll get pages in English then.

[tim 360]

cessna88, At this point I don't think you really should be too worried that she is a scammer, but Odessa is a haven for them.  Some years ago I had quite a few penpals in Russia and Ukraine and it was an interesting experience, sort of a cultural exchange for me and them and they got to practice their English both written and verbal (phone) and I got to practice my poor Russian.  

Consider that she may have only wanted you for a penpal as that could be the case.

This board deals with MOB mainly and it gets a bit jaded due to scammers and personalities and the scary stories you may read here may not apply very much in your case.

For sure she has a phone and internet cafes are numerous and cheap in Odessa.  I never paid for their internet cafe costs and at that time it was about $1 per hour.  A few times I did offer to help pay for their internet cafe costs but,  "...they would not hear of such a thing."

[BillyB]

That sure made me think,

You're still a young man but always be aware that people can and will take advantage of you from other countries, in business, in love and even your friends. It doesn't mean you have to be paranoid but it's good you're thinking. You came here to ask a few questions about a Ukrainian girl and you leave better informed to handle what life throws at you.

It's been 2 years that you were communicating with that man/woman and you still don't know who you're communicating with. I wouldn't correspond with a woman more than a month before moving on if she wouldn't let me speak to her on the phone. 

I suspect if you just wanted to remain pen pals, you wouldn't be asking questions so if you're looking for love, you need to be more aggressive when pursing a woman. Your current pace will give ladies the impression you aren't interested romantically and only want to remain friends.