Question about Ukraine and news sources

[Seeker]

There is a great thread here called "The Moscow Times and other sources of information about Russia".  I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for sources of news about Ukraine.  I have been reading up on the election over the last few months and have found a few sites, but they seem like a cross between "The National Enquirer" and "Fox News".  No insult to either of them, I just do not like the style or the slanted content (not that there is much better in the rest of the US media.      )

So I was hoping someone might be able to help me find more points of view on Ukrainian news.  Not just about the elections necessarily, but news in general.

[JR]

Why not talk to some Ukrainians?

[Seeker]

Why not talk to some Ukrainians?

I do.  Just looking for new sources that want to talk about it.  Like reporters.  The only two Ukrainians I know do not like talking politics.  Actually the one that lives here is removed from it, and the one living there is sick of it and can't wait for the elections to be over.  And as far as general news, I just want to learn about the country and the culture. 

[Vaughn]

Seeker, have you tried these two?

http://www.day.kiev.ua/en

http://www.unian.net/eng

The second calls itself an independent news source.

The below link offers more...

http://www.world-newspapers.com/ukraine.html

Happy hunting, Seeker -

[Seeker]

Seeker, have you tried these two?

http://www.day.kiev.ua/en

http://www.unian.net/eng

The second calls itself an independent news source.

The below link offers more...

http://www.world-newspapers.com/ukraine.html

Happy hunting, Seeker -

Thank you!  I appreciate the help.  All of these are new to me...  Now I have more reading to do.   

[ECOCKS]

Google The Kyiv Post.

It's not the Times but it gives you a fair, readable view in reasonable English.

[Faux Pas]

I do.  Just looking for new sources that want to talk about it.  Like reporters.  The only two Ukrainians I know do not like talking politics.  Actually the one that lives here is removed from it, and the one living there is sick of it and can't wait for the elections to be over.  And as far as general news, I just want to learn about the country and the culture. 

Then you should visit 

[Seeker]

Then you should visit 

I am in March.  So I figured it would be helpful to learn as much as I can before I go.  Plus, just from a sociological point of view, it is very important time for a very old "country" that has just recently become a nation.  This is an amazing point in a young nations life.

[Faux Pas]

I am in March.  So I figured it would be helpful to learn as much as I can before I go.  Plus, just from a sociological point of view, it is very important time for a very old "country" that has just recently become a nation.  This is an amazing point in a young nations life.

Sweet! Just a suggestion: pay more attention to reading and learning the history and culture of Ukraine which there is plenty of on the net, rather than the politics. It's unlikely you'll understand it anyway. What you'll see  or think you see on the surface is deceiving. It's the up is down and down is up mentality. IMO

[Seeker]

Sweet! Just a suggestion: pay more attention to reading and learning the history and culture of Ukraine which there is plenty of on the net, rather than the politics. It's unlikely you'll understand it anyway. What you'll see  or think you see on the surface is deceiving. It's the up is down and down is up mentality. IMO

Believe me, I am getting that!  And the extremes of what is quoted as being said by the politicians involved!  If you were to believe it all, the choices are not that good, and most of them should be in prison or mental hospitals.  "They" are alot more aggressive in the campaign for office than "they" are here.  I am curious, is it the media or the politicians themselves?

The anthropology and archaeology of the region intrigues me too... (actually of the entire world but this is where I am learning now.)  And I was so amazed to learn of the history and "pre-history" of Ukraine and the countries around.  Well, okay I knew of some, but none about Ukraine.  I have no illusion that I can see all of it.  I will be happy to see any of it.

[ECOCKS]

The politicans are, if anything, treated in an understated manner by the press, both domestic and foreign. The two primary contenders for the Presidency have both served jailtime. That said, you can also keep in mind that so had Nelson Mandela. Still, the arrogance, lying, outrageous claims and so on are fun to experience and are a bit safer than most African elections. At least there shouldn't be any tanks or automatic weapons fire in the streets.

Murders, intimidation, shoulder-strikers, bribed election officials, voter payoffs, ballot box theft and stuffing, Ukraine has it all.

If Yanukovich wins, I will make no further investments in the country of any type and concentrate on a more intense plan to get family members out of there.

If Tymoshenko wins, the people will be happy and safe enough as long as they are not sitting between her and something she wants.

The "democratic" process and fledgling capitalistic changes to a free market of the country are in danger in almost all scenarios unless they eventually get a crop of honest politicians into office who eliminate their immunity from prosecution. That won't happen this election but some of the possibilities offer less evil consequences than others.

[Boethius]

And the extremes of what is quoted as being said by the politicians involved!  If you were to believe it all, the choices are not that good, and most of them should be in prison or mental hospitals.  "They" are alot more aggressive in the campaign for office than "they" are here.  I am curious, is it the media or the politicians themselves?

It is the politicians.  My husband says it is already "groteseque".

Sorry, Ed, but no Ukrainian politician is a Nelson Mandela.  They are all former devoted commie dogs, now showing their true faces.

There are two good history books on Ukraine in English - one by Orest Subtelny and one by Paul Magosci.

[Seeker]

The politicans are, if anything, treated in an understated manner by the press, both domestic and foreign. The two primary contenders for the Presidency have both served jailtime. That said, you can also keep in mind that so had Nelson Mandela. Still, the arrogance, lying, outrageous claims and so on are fun to experience and are a bit safer than most African elections. At least there shouldn't be any tanks or automatic weapons fire in the streets.

Murders, intimidation, shoulder-strikers, bribed election officials, voter payoffs, ballot box theft and stuffing, Ukraine has it all.

If Yanukovich wins, I will make no further investments in the country of any type and concentrate on a more intense plan to get family members out of there.

If Tymoshenko wins, the people will be happy and safe enough as long as they are not sitting between her and something she wants.

The "democratic" process and fledgling capitalistic changes to a free market of the country are in danger in almost all scenarios unless they eventually get a crop of honest politicians into office who eliminate their immunity from prosecution. That won't happen this election but some of the possibilities offer less evil consequences than others.

I guess what I have been told is true... but I see the hope for the future.  It took the US a long time to get to where we are, and we are screwed up too.  We have just learned to hide it better.  And the Ukraine constitution is a well written document.  Even we still struggle with ours.  They have a good basis to start from.  As you said, it is up to the honest people (and politicians) to make it happen.  Hey, we are still working on this one, they are just starting.  I have hope for the best.  And based on human nature, we can expect that it might take a while.

[Seeker]

It is the politicians.  My husband says it is already "groteseque".

Sorry, Ed, but no Ukrainian politician is a Nelson Mandela.  They are all former devoted commie dogs, now showing their true faces.

There are two good history books on Ukraine in English - one by Orest Subtelny and one by Paul Magosci.

Thank you!  I will look for them tomorrow.  There is a library in the building I work in.  If they do not have it they can usually have it in a day or two if it is requested.

[Boethius]

I guess what I have been told is true... but I see the hope for the future.  It took the US a long time to get to where we are, and we are screwed up too.  We have just learned to hide it better.  And the Ukraine constitution is a well written document.  Even we still struggle with ours.  They have a good basis to start from.  As you said, it is up to the honest people (and politicians) to make it happen.  Hey, we are still working on this one, the are just starting.  I have hope for the best.  And based on human nature, we can expect that it might take a while.

The problem is the country is mired in corruption.  I mean, they had a member of parliament who hunted people for fun.  And, he has "disappeared", meaning he wasn't alone, and he is either being protected, or dead.  My guess is he'll resurface after Yushchenko is defeated.

[Faux Pas]

I guess what I have been told is true... but I see the hope for the future.  It took the US a long time to get to where we are, and we are screwed up too.  We have just learned to hide it better.  And the Ukraine constitution is a well written document.  Even we still struggle with ours.  They have a good basis to start from.  As you said, it is up to the honest people (and politicians) to make it happen.  Hey, we are still working on this one, they are just starting.  I have hope for the best.  And based on human nature, we can expect that it might take a while.

Hope springs eternal huh? Ukraine has been a country much longer than the US. The US constitution is a solid document if we'll quit trying to re-write it

[Boethius]

Ukraine has been a country much longer than the US.

Depends on your definition of a country.  Ukraine as an independent country, with its current borders, has not been around for two decades yet.  The last prolonged period of Ukrainian independence was during the Cossack Hetmanate, but the Cossacks didn't view themselves as "Ukrainians".

[ECOCKS]

I guess what I have been told is true... but I see the hope for the future.  It took the US a long time to get to where we are, and we are screwed up too.  We have just learned to hide it better.  And the Ukraine constitution is a well written document.  Even we still struggle with ours.  They have a good basis to start from.  As you said, it is up to the honest people (and politicians) to make it happen.  Hey, we are still working on this one, they are just starting.  I have hope for the best.  And based on human nature, we can expect that it might take a while.

Your optimism is noted. I'll look forward to your view periodically as you gain more exposure to the region and certainly hope that your attitude will wear off on some of the people a bit.

Their Constitution essentially setup conflict between the Presidency and the PM with no means of resolution through their legal system. The legal system is completely screwed up and their implementation of immunity is nothing short of a license to steal and carry out whatever malicious mayhem they deem is in their best interest.

While none of the pols show any sign of Nelson's redeeming characteristics, I do try to keep in perspective that the use of arrest warrants and the multiple armed law enforcement units are open for manipulation by the highest bidder. Lech Walesa spent jailtime before leading Poland into the new age as well. Specifically, while Tymoshenko has a record and probably is guilty of a lot of things, her actual jailtime is more politically motivated than her opponents'. The people I have met who worked around her use words like, "vicious", "crazy", "megalomaniac" and "arrogant" as recurring themes. As for her leading opponent, I'd like to think if I was an American diplomat, faced with the requirement of shaking hands and introducing a thug like Yanukovich to my wife or any other female that I would have the strength of character to resign my position first.

My belief is that the communist methodologies may still be the readiest tools they have at hand but self-interest, wealth and power are their primary motivators these days.

[Boethius]

While none of the pols show any sign of Nelson's redeeming characteristics, I do try to keep in perspective that the use of arrest warrants and the multiple armed law enforcement units are open for manipulation by the highest bidder. Lech Walesa spent jailtime before leading Poland into the new age as well. Specifically, while Tymoshenko has a record and probably is guilty of a lot of things, her actual jailtime is more politically motivated than her opponents'. The people I have met who worked around her use words like, "vicious", "crazy", "megalomaniac" and "arrogant" as recurring themes. As for her leading opponent, I'd like to think if I was an American diplomat, faced with the requirement of shaking hands and introducing a thug like Yanukovich to my wife or any other female that I would have the strength of character to resign my position first.

Hmm, well, diplomacy is the science of opportunity.

Ed, Wałęsa was jailed by the commies - a whole different kettle of fish.   I will call Ukraine's politicians "politicians" for semantic purposes only.  They are a vortex, which sucks in everything around them.  If you looked at the biographies of any of the current crop of Ukrainian "politicians", they were all mid level party officials in the FSU; Yushchenko couldn't rise higher than a village accountant, Tymoshenko is of dubious (non Ukrainian) origins, which she won't discuss, Yanukovich was a petty criminal.  These were not even the middle of the crop, let alone the cream, in the absolutely corrupt, decaying communist system.  The fresh wave of independence brought this scum to the surface, and nobody is capable of cleaning them away.

[ECOCKS]

B:

One man's oppressive regime, is another's opportunity apparently.

I merely say that people should keep past jailtime in perspective. I regard them both as at least unsuitable for the country's best interest to outright dangerous. Mrs. T's rise to wealth and power is strongly indicative that she is guilty of other things. I doubt any of the oligarchs or pols could stand much scrutiny into their past.

Until a true revolution brings in a completely new and hopefully honest group into power which truly has the country's future well-being as their goal Ukraine will suffer setbacks and squandered opportunities. It's sort of like watching the barroom rape of a promising young woman by a gang in complete control of the situation.

[ECOCKS]

International Opinion on the situation in Ukraine:

ANALYSIS-Despair in West over situation in Ukraine
12 Jan 2010 12:43:23 GMT
Source: Reuters

 * Orange Revolution optimism shattered by bickering, crisis

* No quick NATO or European Union entry for Ukraine

* European hopes of rapid change not high

By David Brunnstrom

BRUSSELS, Jan 12 (Reuters) - The West is hoping for more political stability in Ukraine after Sunday's presidential election but quick entry into NATO or the European Union are off the agenda whatever the outcome.

Infighting among Ukraine's leaders and economic crisis have shattered the optimism inspired in the West by the former Soviet republic's "Orange Revolution" in 2004, and Ukrainians say Western leaders have lost interest in their country.

"Ukraine has gone from being a darling of the EU to a complete and utter nightmare," said Tomas Valasek at the Centre for European Reform think tank.

"A few years ago most EU states were convinced it should be in the European Union within a few years. All that has changed."

Ukraine, which is squeezed between Russia and the European Union and carries Russian energy to Europe, is vital to its Western neighbours' economic and security interests.

Governments from Europe to the United States hope the vote will at least provide some clarity as to who is running Ukraine after years of squabbling between the president, prime minister and main opposition leader.

But there is little optimism that either of the two main candidates -- opposition leader Viktor Yanukovich and Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko -- can bring any quick turnaround.

There is also considerable nervousness that the election, expected to go to a runoff between Yanukovich and Tymoshenko on Feb. 7, could generate further political strife.

PROSPECTS DIM

Lack of Ukrainian support for joining the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation has pushed membership off the immediate agenda, despite the Western military alliance's pledge that Kiev will one day become a member.

The political turbulence in Kiev has also seriously damaged hopes harboured by both the main candidates that Ukraine could one day join the 27-country EU, which could offer a country such as Ukraine more protection during future economic crises.

Kiev's handling of a gas supply crisis in Europe last year, when Russia turned off the taps of pipelines running through Ukraine, damaged its reputation in the EU as a reliable partner.

The political bickering that led to suspension of emergency International Monetary Fund loans had a similar effect.

Ukrainians say the problems are not entirely of their own making, and accuse the West of suddenly losing interest in their country. The EU and NATO became more wary after sabre-rattling by Russia and Russian suggestions that drawing Kiev into the Western orbit would damage business ties with Moscow.

Valasek said the election could be a last chance for Ukraine to revive its EU prospects.

"With the economy being in such terrible shape, the appetite and desire among EU member states to consider Ukraine as a potential member has decreased correspondingly," he said.

"We are all looking at the election and hoping for a little more stability, a little more clarity about who's actually running the country."

LOW EBB

Andrew Wilson of the European Council on Foreign Relations said EU-Ukraine economic cooperation remained essential and Kiev's future membership prospects could be revived, but relations were at a low ebb.

"The ball is very much in Ukraine's court. Whoever is elected will have to restore a reputation for policy coherence and policy delivery pretty soon -- within the first 30 or 100 days, particularly on items already on the table," he said.

"There are indications that Tymoshenko, at least, would try to revive those issues were she to be elected," he said.

Wilson said the EU too could move to improve the atmosphere, but added: "All that depends on what type of election we get ... it has to be more or less free and fair with no crazy provocations or obvious fraud, or the loser refusing to accept the result -- all of which are possible."

EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton told a European Parliament hearing on Monday that "clear European interests are at stake" in the election. But the next Ukrainian president will also have to find a balance in dealings with the East and West.

"Tymoshenko would probably play that game of balance slightly more to the West than the East ... she certainly talks more warmly of the EU and IMF," Wilson said.

A senior EU official described dealing with Ukraine's leaders as one of his most frustrating experiences and saw little reason for optimism whatever the outcome.

"It's hard to see anything changing while the same leaders remain in power," he said. (Additional reporting by Timothy Heritage; Editing by Janet Lawrence)


"...a complete and utter nightmare,"  OUCH!

[Gylden]

Now is the perfect opportunity to change the momentum in world politics!!
The solution (at least for the US and Ukrainian interests) is to absorb Ukraine into the USA as the 51st state!! (Mexico missed their opportunity, so we better move on) With China on the move and the EU expanding the USA needs another frontier, especially in a strategically important region as Ukraine (would really shake the tree in the EU wouldn't it?) Think of the benefits! Ukraine has a well educated population, plenty of fertile land (very important in the coming decades) and a strategic gateway into many areas of political importance.
It would make the whole world forget about the "financial crisis" and jump start (more like rocket start) economies and politics around the world!!
Let's Do It !!*




*wendsday morning goofing around, not to be taken serious

[ECOCKS]

Well, maybe, but you're just gonna skip over Canada or what?

[Gylden]

Canada is in the bag allready, just no one has told the Canadians yet!!
 

[Shadow]

One of the most interesting thing about the politics in Ukraine is the opinion of the West.

During the Orange revolution they emphasized the importants of free and honest elections, and that was the only way to go forwards.

Now that the 'free and honest elections' have brought not much improvement, and the next elections could see a return of someone who was marginally defeated last time, suddenly the votes of the majority of the people seems less important.

Ukrainians should remember it is their country, and they fought hard for independence. And no influence, Western or Russian, should be able to dictate or determine who they wil choose as leader.

Current politics are a mess, and anyone who manages to clean it up, regardless of his political direction, will deserve my respect.