How do you protect from women like this?

[Yuli]

Hi,

Long time RWD reader, lots of good info here.  I've been thinking about taking a trip to Ukraine but have recently read about so many scams and frauds.

How can you figure out the woman's real intention before you loose a bunch of money, property or worse?

I found one story on Happier Abroad, that is unreal, this one goes from guy to guy and it really scared me just as I was about to submit an application for a visa. I've since put that on hold....

Here's the link to what I saw:
http://www.happierabroad.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=16319&sid=339c566e2e607ae90cec9813ee7ccd70

and a part of the article posted (there's alot more at the link though):
When it comes to beating the system, our immigration laws have provided several tools at the disposal of green card seekers who are adept at manipulation and have no fear of repercussions. One such tool is the affidavit of abuse. On the surface it is a noble cause, protecting foreign brides who arrive to the U.S. only to find their husband is an abusive monster. In action, however, the concept falls apart and lends itself to misuse.

In 2002 a young Ukrainian woman, Elena Buchkovskaya (aka Olena Buchkovska, Alenu Buchkovsky) entered the United States after participating in a long distance engagement and marriage. The young man, Gino Litvak, was in love with Elena, had met her three years earlier and had worked hard to get her immigration papers in order so that she could join him in his life in Brooklyn. When she finally did arrive to the United States in June, she left Gino after 3 months.

She was able to keep Gino pacified, though living separately. In February 2005, Elena filed an affidavit stating that Gino was a drug addict and had abused her. Under U.S. Immigration law, such an affidavit is all that is needed for Elena to qualify for a special U.S. Visa that enabled her to continue to pursue her green card without living with or sponsorship from Gino. Despite repeated attempts over the years, Gino was unable to find where Elena was or her living conditions, even though she was still his wife. Her reasoning to U.S. Immigration was that she was fearful of Gino. In November 2006 Elena was granted a green card on this basis, in December of 2008 she completed divorce proceedings from Gino. Coincidentally two years is the stipulated minimum time from green card receipt to any acceptable change of marriage status for US Immigration.

In 2003, while still married, Elena started to work go-go bars in New Jersey, without immigration work authorization, to make money in cash and un-taxed and to actively seek out likely professional men. In August of 2006 Elena quit working in New Jersey and switched to the more lucrative grounds in Manhattan at the Flashdancers topless bar. By this time she had met and formed a group with two other women each with the same goal, Elena instructed these women on the immigration affidavit method. At Flashdancers they could interact with Wall Street executives, publishing executives and real estate moguls.

In October 2008 she met the perfect man, Michael Frank. Michael had everything she was looking for, a Manhattan apartment in the Upper East Side, a high powered advertising position as VP in David Geller and Associates, an expensive car and a house in the Hamptons. On the side he ran his own real estate development and construction company called FHM Development and Construction. Elena quit her job at Flashdancers and while with Michael, Elena used her other male acquaintances from Flashdancers to support herself. During this year 2008, Elena would gain up to $4,000 per month from her manipulations.

From Michael himself, Elena received $3,500 per month and participated in his real estate business. Michael paid Elena for minimal interior design work despite Elena having no experience or education and was paid through a company called Pioneer Development and Construction of which there is no record of business license with the county clerk of company’s stated address.

During 2008 Elena attracted an income of $6,000 to 7,000 per month. Until 2007 she had not declared or filed income taxes since entering the U.S. She would receive gifts from her manipulated victims such as $2,000 dresses, $4,000 handbags $6,000 jewelry and other luxury items and would take trips to Spain, Las Vegas and Miami.

No official action from US Immigration or IRS has been taken. Specifically U.S. Immigration has a policy that prevents action being taken to a woman that files an affidavit of abuse. The filer of such an affidavit does not need to show any proof of abuse, only write out a description of alleged actions and obtain signatures from usually family members or close friends as supporting collaboration. This is supposedly to prevent a vindictive spouse, yet, clearly leaves the door open to fraud that many have found very lucrative.

[Gator]

Yuli,

This episode happens; however, it is not common.  The more time you spend with your woman, the more you will understand her true intentions.  Also, send a PM to the RWD member Maxx (or is it Maxx2).  It happened to him and turned his life upside down.  He will give you lots of advice.

One warning:  Complete honesty is rare among women, and in my opinion RW on average are more dishonest (or less forthright) than AW.  Part of this stems from their culture (e. g., corruption is more widespread and accepted in Russia and Ukraine). 

Individuals vary widely so YMMV, e. g. Bernie Madoff.

BTW, where are you from where you need to appy for a visa to visit Ukraine?

[BC]

In the overall scheme of things, in the eyes of the Government the whole realm of MOB scam, WAVA etc etc is just a small spec of interest.

In other words it's one of those problems that has such a low priority it's almost better to ignore it.

[Yuli]

Thanks Gator,

I will check with Maxx.

I'm Israeli but I live an work in the United States, honestly, travel bureaus give me conflicting info, I thought I should just get a visa and avoid any kind of trouble especially these days. 

But, well first maybe I should think long and hard on this and talk to more people.

thnx!

[Turboguy]

Yuli, there are scams and frauds and spending time on RWD as you have done can help eliminate a lot of them.  

I was just reading somewhere some statistics from Elena's Models which is where I met my wife.  I didn't pay close attention but I seem to recall the statistics saying that Elena estimates that about 5% of the women on her site find a husband abroad.  That does make it fairly competitive.

My guess is overall it is probably the same or less for the men however if you take out the armchair Romeo's who never make a trip and those who either don't have the resources or focus to really succeed and those who are unrealistic in their expectations the success rate is probably well over 50%.

Most women are sincerely looking for a good husband as well as a better life.  No matter how careful you are you can find a bad apple.  I think Gator brought up a good point that spending the time really getting to  know the person can help eliminate problems.  I think Gator could also tell you that it is not foolproof.  I have seen guys make one trip and spend a few days with a woman and have great success but not rushing is wise.

Being realistic in what you seek in a woman can also help (not that I should talk) but look for inner beauty which lasts much longer than a pretty face.  

I don't know if I agree with gator about honesty or not.  If I used my first fiancee as a measure I would agree but with my wife she is one of the most honest women I have ever met.  I think it is not so much honesty as scruples.  Some Russian women will do about anything to get what they want and that can include using a man with little concern for the effect it will have on his life.  There are many however who are really great people who are sincere and want to be happy and make their husband happy.

My suggestion is to not be afraid but be smart and careful.   Trust your instincts and if something seems wrong it probably is wrong.  Read the 10 commandments here and follow them.  Find a woman you really connect with emotionally and intellectually and not one who only gets your hormones going.  

[Shadow]

The best way to protect yourself is to be realistic about your goals, take time to get to know who you are involved with, and do not rely on money to win over a woman.

[tfcrew]

If the strip dancer making $8000 a month were a heating and air conditioning guy making 8 thou a month...the IRS would be all over it.

[Handycam72]

The site you quote "Happier Abroad" is owned by Winston Wu.

Read these articles about him and make your own mind up about him. Or even better, just google his name, or search on youtube.

http://www.happierabroad.com/biography.htm

http://www.winston-wu.com/

http://www.expat.ru/forum/expat-cafe/20799-winston-wu-update.html

[tfcrew]

http://www.happierabroad.com/biography.htm
Autobiography

[RussianWind]

Stay at home then. We have a good saying: "Don't go to a forest if you are afraid of wolves"

[ECOCKS]

Yuli:

As several people are saying, many people do this successfully and without overexposure to scammers or professional daters.

Read the threads, be realistic, keep your hand on your wallet and be sure you pay attention to the 10 Commandments.

You'll survive.

[acrzybear]

http://www.happierabroad.com/biography.htm
Autobiography

This guy is a tool!!

[greg2654]

Yuli,
Do NOT listen to a SINGLE word from Winston Wu. He's a complete head case. He's an egomaniac with an inferiority complex. An absolute nincompoop. He will rot your brain.

He used to post on the Russian-Women-L (St. John Maelstrom) a long time ago. You can search his "wisdom" out there. I think they finally gave him the heave-ho. Do we have any alumni here? Anybody back me up on this?

[Aloe]

I had talked to this guy, W.Wu on a different forum, i agree he is a complete psycho.
Did you read continuation of that story? The woman in question wrote to the forum owner saying that topic starter is a stalker, and based on the original post im more inclined to believe the woman. For the simple reason that the details he states about her are impossible to obtain (from his own words, she never paid any taxes, so what she got was cash, so how the hell would he know how much it is?). The whole post stinks of maniac stalker. No person can know THAT much about another person, unless they stalk her 24/7 with binoculars and a microphone  Or unless they come to a forum and make up a completely fabricated post based on guesses and somebody's grandmother's word

[greg2654]

I had talked to this guy, W.Wu on a different forum, i agree he is a complete psycho.
Did you read continuation of that story? The woman in question wrote to the forum owner saying that topic starter is a stalker, and based on the original post im more inclined to believe the woman.

Wu's basic premise is that all women are prostitutes and should be treated with contempt. When he was on the RWL he would meet as many RW as he could and try to prove his point. Total whack job.

It's hard to say how much of what he wrote was BS. My own thought was that he was meeting with real prostitutes and then trying to make them seem like normal women. I had a hard time imagining any RW falling for this guys line.

[Handycam72]

http://www.happierabroad.com/biography.htm
Autobiography

Curious, why you felt the need to change a word on a (copied and pasted) link? 

Wu's basic premise is that all women are prostitutes and should be treated with contempt. When he was on the RWL he would meet as many RW as he could and try to prove his point. Total whack job.

It's hard to say how much of what he wrote was BS. My own thought was that he was meeting with real prostitutes and then trying to make them seem like normal women. I had a hard time imagining any RW falling for this guys line.

I found this Winston guy while on youtube one time, at first I thought harmless guy, untill I read some of the comments to his videos which made me curious, so digged alittle deeper. OMG he is one strange guy.

[JR]

Yuli, welcome to the forum.

Remember this: Garbage in = Garbage out.

If you fill your head with scammers you will see them at every turn you take. They will be everywhere! I suggest you try another road. Learn the ScamCard by heart and use it but don't go involving yourself with all the anti-scam sites. You will only drive yourself to paranoia.

I find myself in agreement with Gator on the lying thing. My ex-wife (Russian) would lie unapoligetically when she though there was gain to be had by it.

Stick to the positive but keep yours eyes open.

[Yuli]

Hi,

Thanks everyone! I really appreciate all the responses and advice, I had no idea about the whole Winston thing, wow.

But I think you guys are right, I was feeling liek I was hunting for shadows but that just encourages paranoia.  Clearly I'm not ready to take the leap and go jetting there yet.  I'll wait until I'm feeling more comfortable before making definite plans.

Anyway, it's all pretty much about money, right? So, I just gotta keep the 10 Commandments in mind, and if talk keeps going back to money and such, that should set off warning bells that I need to make sure override the hormones...

I still gotta find Maxx though, I'd still kinda like to hear from a bona fide story that's not bs.

thnx!

[Misha]

Remember this: Garbage in = Garbage out.

Welcome! JR is right. The problem as I see it is that men see the problems and then will ignore them, coming up with excuses as to whey bad behavior is appropriate. The usual line: "... but I was told that it was cultural..."

[kievstar]

Have to disagree on the lying.  See it more in Asian women.