When she just doesn't get it

[Blues Fairy]

My husband used to work for DoD and had a pretty high security clearance, so for us, any Middle Eastern countries were out of the question right from the start.  He barely managed to sneak into Russia (using employment info from his secondary job to apply for the visa).

The OP might have his own reasons; why should we question them.  On the other hand, if he cannot explain these reasons to his lady in a satisfactory way, and she is unable to explain why she so fervently insists on Turkey and Egypt, there is obviously a very big communication or power struggle issue and it probably makes sense to explore and resolve it first before making any travel plans.

[Shadow]

There is a difference between not being able to go somewhere because of security clearance, and just because you feel scared of any country inhabiting a number of people from a different religion.
As for her insisting, it might be a simple matter of her wanting to be able to pay her own trip.

[RussianWind]

As for her insisting, it might be a simple matter of her wanting to be able to pay her own trip.

I suspect it's a different reason. Not to owe a debt of gratitude (if something goes wrong).

[I/O]

On the other hand, if he cannot explain these reasons to his lady in a satisfactory way, and she is unable to explain why she so fervently insists on Turkey and Egypt, there is obviously a very big communication or power struggle issue and it probably makes sense to explore and resolve it first before making any travel plans.

So much more eloquently put than my "They're goin' tits up". Nevertheless, he mightn't think she gets it, but if he goes down this road too long she'll be getting it and he won't be the one giving it.

[swede]

Thailand!

I and my lady will go in march for two weeks. From Moscow (Aeroflot) there is sometimes very cheap tickets (I found from 400 Euro). And the people in Thailand are amazing.

And she is very excited about this.. 

[Turboguy]

I do see both countries as terrific places for an American to wear a big read target on his back. 

Unless you have "I hate Muslims" tattooed on your forehead I think your gal is the one who "doesn't get it"  Egypt and Turkey are probably safer than LA or NYC. 

I have not been to Turkey but did come close once.  I have been to Egypt and with the exception of being attacked by peddlers trying to sell souvenirs or camel rides there is no danger there.  You don't need to worry about a bulls eye on your back.  It isn't there.   Thialand is also a nice place to visit.  We went to Phuket and had a wonderful time with no danger.  We had a great little romantic cottage right near the beach and could not have asked for a better place.

There are other choices in the Caribbean.  We went to Barbados and Grenada and both were as safe as could be.  We walked all kinds of back streets.  Both are easy for Russians to get into.  The Bahamas does require a visa but I don't think it is hard to get.  Actually the Bahamas are probably more dangerous than Turkey and Egypt. 

I can understand some concern about Muslim countries.  When I went to Baku I knew little about the situation there and did have some mild concerns that turned out to be totally groundless but with all the car bombings in the news anyone could be fearful but you really don't hear of them in Egypt or Turkey.

[Blues Fairy]

There is a difference between not being able to go somewhere because of security clearance, and just because you feel scared of any country inhabiting a number of people from a different religion.

Actually, why give a damn about anyone's reasons for not wanting to go to any particular country.  Not wanting to go somewhere might be a perfectly valid reason, in itself.   I won't be persuaded to go to China, for instance, - not because I'm scared of the Chinese, but because I simply don't want to.  Period.  

[JR]

Xman, lets say you do get snuffed by an irate street urchin in one of the two aforementioned countries. Isn't she worth it? If you can't answer yes then don't go. You don't qualify as a knight in shining armor

[GQBlues]

Hmmmm, don't know that the beaches are empty and isolated is open to interpretation I guess. Gitmo has several developed beach areas offering cabanas, cooking grills, restrooms, showers and an adequate roadway for access.

Wouldn't surprise me if someday in the future there's a Holiday Inn beach resort or a Marriott there and maybe we'll even put in a Harrah's or Ballys Casino operation! We already have an airport and a harbor suitable for cruise ships.

Hhhmmm, I just don't agree. I'll likely edit this post much later tonight just so I can add pictures to show what you said isn't necessarily true. I can take you to empty and isolated beaches of Hawaii and Mexico despite their capitalistic amenities that is vastly adorned by far more than cabanas and cooking grills. I seriously doubt the beaches of Gitmo is anywhere near the scales of the aforementioned locale.

Besides, the whole Gitmo idea was more tongue in cheek.

I digress however and agrees with BF. For whatever reason Xman has for electing not to go in certain places, is not the point of his query. I think there's enough ideas here that Xman received/got what he really wanted out of it.

[Shadow]

Actually, why give a damn about anyone's reasons for not wanting to go to any particular country.  Not wanting to go somewhere might be a perfectly valid reason, in itself.   I won't be persuaded to go to China, for instance, - not because I'm scared of the Chinese, but because I simply don't want to.  Period.  

Not wanting to go is a very valid reason by itself. But to try to cover the 'I do not want' by a variety of non-reasons will not help. When will you go to China ? 

[BC]

The OP might have his own reasons; why should we question them.  On the other hand, if he cannot explain these reasons to his lady in a satisfactory way, and she is unable to explain why she so fervently insists on Turkey and Egypt, there is obviously a very big communication or power struggle issue and it probably makes sense to explore and resolve it first before making any travel plans.

Perceptive IMHO.

I'll chip in and say TU, or Egypt are quite ok, even great places to go.  The 'target on my back' issue sounds like media/politics instilled phobia.

I'll even go out on a limb and say that anyone with a 'tude towards these two countries should also avoid FSU.

How about Vietnam/Cambodia ?.. one of the UA couples I work with are just coming back from a two week stay there, am waiting for their impressions and photo's.

[ECOCKS]

Hhhmmm, I just don't agree. I'll likely edit this post much later tonight just so I can add pictures to show what you said isn't necessarily true. I can take you to empty and isolated beaches of Hawaii and Mexico despite their capitalistic amenities that is vastly adorned by far more than cabanas and cooking grills. I seriously doubt the beaches of Gitmo is anywhere near the scales of the aforementioned locale.

Besides, the whole Gitmo idea was more tongue in cheek.

I digress however and agrees with BF. For whatever reason Xman has for electing not to go in certain places, is not the point of his query. I think there's enough ideas here that Xman received/got what he really wanted out of it.

And what exactly would pictures of beaches in Hawaii or Mexico have to do with this? It's a simple statement that someday they may turn the existing facilities into a tourist area.

[ECOCKS]

Actually, why give a damn about anyone's reasons for not wanting to go to any particular country.  Not wanting to go somewhere might be a perfectly valid reason, in itself.   I won't be persuaded to go to China, for instance, - not because I'm scared of the Chinese, but because I simply don't want to.  Period.  

True BF. Personally there isn't much I wish to see in Turkey except a couple of historical locations. Same with Egypt although a few more locations there to see. Still, if my wife wants to hit the beaches there, they seem safe enough despite the Egyptian attack a few years ago. China and Japan are the same, I am pretty sure I can satisfy my interests in a week or so then be done with those countries too. The world is full of places which hold no interest yet admittedly, a growing number where security is becoming a concern. To each their own.

[GQBlues]

And what exactly would pictures of beaches in Hawaii or Mexico have to do with this? It's a simple statement that someday they may turn the existing facilities into a tourist area.

…a supporting proof of my rebuttal that established tourist beach resorts are not necessarily void of empty/isolated beaches. I used Hawaii and Mexico as samplings for that point as these places are well 'developed' and replete with hotel rows for far more than a decade and widely far more than Guantanamo. Complete with harbors and cruise ship ports – is all.

[kievstar]

The thing that makes southern part of Turkey better than Mexico is the nightlife and people. Turkey is going to have a strong mix of Germans and Russian tourists with 5 star resorts with Russian language.  Not going to find that in Mexico.

You will also find the nightlife in Turkey far safer than Mexico and more entertaining.  Fishing and golf is better in Mexico.  Mexico is more for older people and Americans as compared to Southern Turkey. 

Price wise excluding air cost is about the same. 

I like Turkey better as who wants to see ugly old Americans on the beach when you can see young hot Russians in Turkey.   

[Gator]

Everyone has an opinion.

Mexico ....the Good Life.....not just for a burned out hippy but a Bon Vivant as well.  

The thing that makes southern part of Turkey better than Mexico is the nightlife and people.

Mexican people are unique in positive ways.  They and their culture are warm and endearing, among the best in the world.

Turkey is going to have a strong mix of Germans and Russian tourists with 5 star resorts with Russian language.  Not going to find that in Mexico.

And that is a positive?  I stayed at one of the best resorts in Turkey (twice the average price of the other so called 5-star resorts) where clientele was only 50% Russian.  Very little English however.  I heard English at the bar and naturally gravitated to the source, especially considering I was having a horrible week with my UW companion.  A polished German couple, one schooled at LSE, the other UCLA.  They questioned the preponderance of Russians.  I said it is nearly 90% at other resorts, and this being a better resort these Russians have money.  His negative response, "It doesn't show."

You will also find the nightlife in Turkey far safer than Mexico and more entertaining.

Safer, yes (there is a criminal element in many large cities).  More entertaining, no.  Mexican bands and their music are fantastic, although the Turkish music is lively and sexual.  

Fishing and golf is better in Mexico.

Much more than that.  Swimming with sea lions, walking among the winter home of North America's monarch butterflies, outstanding beaches, cuisine, .... (see photos - and the ones from the 70s, 80s and 90s are even better).

Mexico is more for older people and Americans as compared to Southern Turkey.  

Not true.  In fact too "young" at Spring Break.  

I like Turkey better.... you can see young hot Russians in Turkey.  

You are 100% correct, finally.

[CanadaMan]

Just have her go to to a travel agency. For about $2000, she can get the visa, a plane ticket to Barcelona, and the hotel for a week.  The travel agency can handle it all for her.

Been there, done that.  We spent a week together in Barcelona in 2005 doing just what I suggested.

To Simoni and any others who have personal experience doing the Schengen 'group tour' thing:
How does it work in practice as opposed to in theory?
I know in theory you are supposed to be going on a trip with a group and traveling/touring as a group.

Also, can you make your own flight selection? How about hotel choice, can you make your own?

In Barcelona, we were attacked by a gang of four men on the busy, main street and robbed and injured.

Ouch! Did this happen in broad daylight or was it at night? Were there any witnesses?

[kievstar]

Gator, your viewing Mexico on your beliefs and not as of a Russian woman who may not speak English. You also tend to like things an old man would like.  You are old so nothing wrong here. Not being negative here but you like things my parents like to do.

No one is going to speak Russian in Mexico and very few Russian tourists.

Spring break is less than 10% of the time.  Go to Mexico outside of March - not good.

Best resorts in Turkey charge more than 2,000 usd a day per person.  Did you really drop 25,000 usd a week??? Of course Mexico has resorts in this price as well. A decent resort will be at least 1,000 per couple a day.

I speak Russian and Spanish so no English needed for me.
 
If you really want to see culture, nature, and history why go to Mexico.  Go more south a better option.  If you want young nightlife and beach Egypt and turkey are better options.

I do like October in Cabo.  A very good million dollar fishing tournament takes place.  But the city has turned into a whore house 52 weeks a year.  Cabo was great 20 years ago before the hollywood celebs bought houses there.

[GQBlues]

Gator-

I want to say the tee box looks a lot like Jack Nicklaus' Cabo Del Sol's Ocean Course's (I love that course) 17th tee but hard for me to see the greenside left bunker to be certain. Why that is significant is because the 4 times I played that course I always end up on that bunker every single time. My cut shots are too weak for that much wind. It just gets blown over...but better bunker than ocean, I suppose.

If in Cabo again - try Mariscos Mazatlan. Guaranteed. The gang will be there in 2 weeks...

I like Turkey better as who wants to see ugly old Americans on the beach when you can see young hot Russians in Turkey.  

That would be wonderful! Especially if you went there under the notion of getting to know someone better romantically. You play your cards right you could actually even end up with nightly 3-somes.

[RussianWind]

I know in theory you are supposed to be going on a trip with a group and traveling/touring as a group.

Also, can you make your own flight selection? How about hotel choice, can you make your own?

They call it "individual tour". You come to them, leave them your passport, phots etc. Say - I want to go to Barcelona since... till... 5 start hotel, double room. Leave them money and they organize everything. Then you go back to them, pick your passport with the visa, travel tickets and hotel recervations.

Hope my answer was useful to your question 

[UTRO]

CanadaMan,

Many, if not all Russian Travel Agents, can get your Lady a Schengen Visa based on a Tour that they Sell.
However, you don't have to actually buy this Tour Just the Visa based on the Tour, which might cost you $200 or more.
This allows you to then do your own planning and make your own arrangements.
Just make sure your Lady has a copy of Your Trip Itinerary, with her named on it, when she passes through Passport Control in Greece or whatever country you plan on visiting! 

BTW, ECOCKS... Americans travel smoothly to Cuba all the time through Canada Weird?? Cuban Passport Control somehow always forget to stamp American Passports 

[RussianWind]

I should warn not to do this. There are some travel agencies what "forget" to book a hotel on a client's name. There are some fanatic visa officers who make call to these hotels and if the booking is not confirmed, they refuse with the visa. The agency tells to a client that the conulate didn't give the visa for unknow reason and they grab the money in any case - either she gets the visa or not.

It's better if she brings them data of a specified hotel and flights, so they will officially book them.

[brave girl]

However, you don't have to actually buy this Tour Just the Visa based on the Tour, which might cost you $200 or more.
This allows you to then do your own planning and make your own arrangements.

It is BAD advices!!

There are some fanatic visa officers who make call to these hotels and if the booking is not confirmed, they refuse with the visa.

It is truth!!

It's better if she brings them data of a specified hotel and flights, so they will officially book them.

It is Good advices!!   brave girl

[ECOCKS]

CanadaMan,

Many, if not all Russian Travel Agents, can get your Lady a Schengen Visa based on a Tour that they Sell.
However, you don't have to actually buy this Tour Just the Visa based on the Tour, which might cost you $200 or more.
This allows you to then do your own planning and make your own arrangements.
Just make sure your Lady has a copy of Your Trip Itinerary, with her named on it, when she passes through Passport Control in Greece or whatever country you plan on visiting! 

BTW, ECOCKS... Americans travel smoothly to Cuba all the time through Canada Weird?? Cuban Passport Control somehow always forget to stamp American Passports 

Some Americans choose to travel through there, still doesn't change the fact that we aren't supposed to do so.

[CanadaMan]

Quote from: UTRO on Today at 02:51:33 PM
However, you don't have to actually buy this Tour Wink Just the Visa based on the Tour, which might cost you $200 or more.
This allows you to then do your own planning and make your own arrangements.

It is BAD advices!! Roll Eyes

Quote from: RussianWind on Today at 03:05:19 PM
There are some fanatic visa officers who make call to these hotels and if the booking is not confirmed, they refuse with the visa.

It is truth!!

Quote from: RussianWind on Today at 03:05:19 PM
It's better if she brings them data of a specified hotel and flights, so they will officially book them.

It is Good advices!! Smiley  brave girl

Thanks BraveGirl, RW and Dave.
This is exactly the info I need to know.

It may be a bit late though but we will see.
Money has changed hands already to the travel agent.
They are working on a Schengen visa, flight and hotel booking.

I just didn't like hearing that a certain flight and hotel was being booked after my GF asked me which hotel I would like to stay at.
She had told me the city a few days ago so I started to look for nice hotels there.
I mentioned a couple of nice hotels to her.

Then I learn that the hotel is being booked in a city 50 km from the original city.

Thus my questions. It seemed to me that the travel agent was locked into using a certain hotel, based on a possible agreement between them.

If anyone knows more about this than me, please educate me!