When she just doesn't get it

[XMan]

Don't get me wrong. 
Things are going quite well. 

That having been said, we've been discussing the next meeting (daily) -- in particular, where to meet.

She wants to meet "on a romantic beach."  OK. 
I do not see Egypt or Turkey as a romantic place to meet anywhere at anytime for anyone. 
To each his own.  But definitely not for me. 
I do see both countries as terrific places for an American to wear a big read target on his back. 

She doesn't understand, and for a very intelligent woman, I cannot grasp why. 
"Ukrainians and Russians go there all the time, it is perfectly safe."
Sure. 
For them. 

Has anyone seen the movie "Spinal Tap?" 
This one goes to 11. 

So I talked to her about attempting a USA visa and visiting a beach somewhere here (most likely Florida, considering time of year, i.e. March/April).  I think it could be interesting in many ways.  So, she did check into it, got the "it's impossible" routine, and they wisely suggested Israel as an alternative. 

I don't know how to get across the whole "I shun the Middle East in order to increase my odds of living to celebrate my next birthday" scenario.  She sees my concerns as strange, of course, because she has not seen things like suicide bombers, rockets blowing up market places, beheadings, Jihad, and what I consider to be typical Middle Eastern occurrences.  This is not something I'm going to be talked into. 

I was in chat and ran this question by some folks there:  where is a good alternative place to meet? 
I appreciated everyone's feedback, did a little research, but was not too enamored with the options. 

Does anyone know what's it like to try to get a visa to get into the Bahamas? 
Never been there, looks incredible, flights are possible, I like the idea. 

Not interested in going to Costa Rica, Mexico, Dominican Republic.  Cannot really think of an alternative. 
Thanks.

[Gator]

"Not interested in going to Costa Rica, Mexico, Dominican Republic"

Why?  Splendid places to meet a RW altough getting a visa to Mexico is difficult.

"She sees my concerns as strange"

So do I.  You sound like you have not traveled abroad much.  Turkey is safe, and Egypt is safe too if you don't meander by yourself in the ghetto.  Been there maybe 7 times and no incident.  Tourism is a big industry and the government protects it (e. g., there are plenty of armed guards for the bus trip to Luxor).  Maybe I am not the best source for defining 'safe' because I have traveled to Afghanistan and Ethiopia for pleasure (long time ago).

Turkish beaches are not romantic.  A better name for them is the Russian Riviera akin to the Redneck Riviera here in America.   The Red Sea is spectacular if you like diving. 

[Gator]

How about Thailand?

[Chicagoguy]

It sounds a little parochial when someone dismisses the cradle of civilization so easily. Egypt and Turkey are wonderful places. I was with my Russian fiance in Turkey last year and it was wonderful. And no visa's needed.

[Simoni]

I do not see Egypt or Turkey as a romantic place to meet anywhere at anytime for anyone. 
 
I do see both countries as terrific places for an American to wear a big read target on his back. 

She doesn't understand, and for a very intelligent woman, I cannot grasp why. 
"Ukrainians and Russians go there all the time, it is perfectly safe."

Xman, your girl is correct, and you are wrong.  Turkey is a safe place and a beautiful, romantic place as well, as long as you go to the right place.  You need to listen to the advice men like Gator are giving, and broaden your perspective.

The place in Turkey I visited and can recommend is Antalya.   You can get a 5 start hotel with a private beach at a reasonable price, and you guys will have a great time.

[XMan]

Maybe I am not the best source for defining 'safe' because I have traveled to Afghanistan and Ethiopia for pleasure (long time ago).

It sounds a little parochial when someone dismisses the cradle of civilization so easily. Egypt and Turkey are wonderful places. I was with my Russian fiance in Turkey last year and it was wonderful. And no visa's needed.

 
You are definitely not the best source (no offense Gator).

I like having the odds in my favor, when it comes to things like survival.  
Switzerland, Sweden, Australia.  Places where I feel less likely to be kidnapped by drug lords, stoned for some infraction that I don't understand, shot for having blue eyes, etc.  
Call it parochial.  Call it paranoia.  
I call it risk management.  

The point of my question is not to be convinced to go where I have no intention of going.  
It's to find an alternative.  
I have nothing against anyone else who wants to visit any of the aforementioned places.  
I just won't be joining them.  

[Blues Fairy]

Whatever happened to the good old Shengen visa, why can't she get one and go with you to Barcelona or Croatia, or Greece?  Nothing is easier if the hotel is paid for in advance - I'm sure you can arrange that easily. 

[XMan]

Whatever happened to the good old Shengen visa, why can't she get one and go with you to Barcelona or Croatia, or Greece?  Nothing is easier if the hotel is paid for in advance - I'm sure you can arrange that easily. 

I don't know.  I am unfamiliar with the "Shengen visa" you mentioned. 
Barcelona or Greece seem reasonable.

[JR]

Have you looked into how many Americans have been beheaded or blown up by a bombs in the recent history of either Egypt or Turkey?

You sound paranoid without good reason.

Maybe you shouldn't go...if someone set off a firecracker you might piss your pants in front of your lady! Sorry couldn't resist that...it is of course a joke.

But seriously, you've got a FAR greater chance of dieing in a car accident. But you're not going to stop driving are you?

[JR]

Greece seem reasonable.

Athens, Greece. TWA Flight 841, flying from Tel Aviv to New York, made a scheduled stop in Athens. Shortly after takeoff, it crashed into the Ionian Sea and all 88 passengers were killed, including 32-year-old Steven R. Lowe, husband Jeremiah Michel and wife, Kathrine Hadley Michel of Poughkeepsie, NY, Frederick and Margaret Hare of Bernardsville, NJ, Ralph H. Bosh of Madison, CT, Seldon and Etan Bard of Tuckahoe, NY, Dr. and Mrs. Frederick Stohlman of Newton, MA, Don H. Holiday of Mahwah, NJ, and Jon L. Chesire of Old Lyme, Ct; all of which were Almerican citizens. An investigation of the crash conclusively established that it was caused by explosives set in the rear cargo department of the plane.

[ECOCKS]

X:

Sorry, to piss you off Xman but you are just a bit too paranoid. Turkey is fine and completely safe but I too am a little leery (but only a little) of Eqypt myself. After all, Sharm el-Sheikh has a history. Still thousands of westerners go there all the time without incidents. You could also consider Croatia and maybe Montenegro in another couple of months since their beach areas are developing nicely and she should be able to get in and out of there if she books and all-inclusive tour from within Ukraine or Russia and pre-pays on the condition of receiving all visas and travel arrangements by the agent.

If you're agreeing with a meeting outside Ukraine then Turkey is a great place to plan on and you can find a good, all-inclusive spot that will let you enjoy your vacation and get to know each other better. After all, you know she can get in there and you're building a travel record for her as well as building a record of your relationship progressing appropriately.

The only other alternative I can throw you is Bulgaria but that would be in June or later to be sure you get decent weather.

If she can't get a US visa she may not qualify for a Schengen either.

Like Gator said, I'm not sure why you don't want Dominica or Costa Rica. but to each their own.

[Ravens9273]

I will not comment on your concerns. You are entitled to them. I will recommend good places to visit you both can go visa free.

Jamaica
Dominican Republic.

Me and wife have been to both. Between the two though I say Jamaica is better.
Plus the people go out of their way to give you the romantic trip.

[JR]

Barcelona seem reasonable.

American Sailor Dies in Barcelona After U.S.O. Blast That Hurt 10
By PAUL DELANEY, Special to the New York Times

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CloseLinkedinDiggFacebookMixxMySpaceYahoo! BuzzPermalinkMADRID, Dec. 27— An American sailor died today from wounds received Saturday in a bomb attack on a U.S.O. club, the fourth against American targets in Barcelona this year. Rival Catalan separatist groups took responsibility for the bombing, in which nine other sailors were wounded.

Seaman Ronald Strong, 22 years old, of Reevers, Pa., died in a Barcelona hospital from what authorities said were shrapnel wounds to the kidneys, lungs and abdomen.

[GregfromGa]

As a local coordinator for a foreign exchange student program I can honestly say that I would have absolutely no problem with going to Egypt or Turkey. We've been to Kusadasi Turkey and the people were so nice. I hung out with 50 Egyptian students in Washington DC this past June. Of those 50 there 12 in the cluster that I guided around. Everyone of those kids are on my facebook and stay in touch. They were all such great kids. Our prisons here are filled with good ole red blooded American thugs, child molesters and murders. I can promise you that you probably have more child molesters living with in 10 miles of your house than you would Muslims that would want you dead in Giza Egypt.

[Simoni]

I don't know.  I am unfamiliar with the "Shengen visa" you mentioned.  
Barcelona or Greece seem reasonable.

I do not see Egypt or Turkey as a romantic place to meet anywhere at anytime for anyone.  
To each his own.  But definitely not for me.  ...I do see both countries as terrific places for an American to wear a big read target on his back.

Just have her go to to a travel agency. For about $2000, she can get the visa, a plane ticket to Barcelona, and the hotel for a week.  The travel agency can handle it all for her.

Been there, done that.  We spent a week together in Barcelona in 2005 doing just what I suggested.

BTW-- When we were in Turkey, we had a wonderful peaceful time.

In Barcelona, we were attacked by a gang of four men on the busy, main street and robbed and injured.

Which is safest, Turkey or Spain?  For us, Turkey was.

[Simoni]

I will not comment on your concerns. You are entitled to them. I will recommend good places to visit you both can go visa free.

Jamaica
Dominican Republic.

We loved both Jamaica and the Dominican Republic.   Costa Rica was our favorite of all, however.

[GQBlues]

Well, X-man how'bout Cuba? There doesn't seem to be any visa/travel restrictions to either of you...Of course I like Gator's Thailand idea as well....

[ECOCKS]

Isn't X-man American? Unless something changed we're not supposed to be in Cuba.

[GQBlues]

My bad, if so...I thought he's from the UK.

[ECOCKS]

My bad, if so...I thought he's from the UK.

From the original post:

"I do not see Egypt or Turkey as a romantic place to meet anywhere at anytime for anyone. 
To each his own.  But definitely not for me. 
I do see both countries as terrific places for an American to wear a big read target on his back."

[Gator]

Isn't a "Xman" a brave comic book character.  Chicken Little seems more appropriate.  Switzerland!  Yep, it's safe (and tidy and boring).

For others, one can go to Cuba as an American if one has a sense of adventure, jumps through some hoops, and is not intimidated by letters from the State Dept (who will never enforce their threats to prosecute visitors - ACLU (or similar) is waiting for them to take it to court). 

The legal key is to not spend any of your own money, just hers (or what you gave her).

[Boethius]

Barbados.  Russians don't need a visa, it's safe, you can even buy an all inclusive resort package.

[I/O]

Why would either of you consider a next meeting? You both seem so blindly pig headed and know-it-all about places you've never been and things you've never done, I don't see much hope of your making the kite fly in an international marriage.

[Boethius]

Stubborness (or perhaps being "strong willed") is a requirement for a successful marriage against the odds.

[Ade]

Statistically speaking, compared to Egypt, there's probably a greater chance of an American dying from Islamic terrorism, or any other form of terrorism for that matter, in the good old U. S. of A. At least it seems like that from any numbers I can find.

There's a not so fine line between irrational fears and "risk management". Of course it helps to educate yourself to the risks before making decisions.