RW and the dreaded P word...

[Seeker]

Nope. Alex thinks this board was organized yestarday 

I saw gentlemen left without pants with their prenups for a memory.

I wouldn't sign for a simple reason. I personally think that if the prenup question arises, that means only one thing - your relationship has big cracks and the wise thing would be not to marry this man at all.

I do not mean to play devil's advocate... but I will.   :evil:

What if the prenup is to protect the wife?  I have seen those in US marriages.  They seemed just as strange, but I understood the reasons.

[alex330]

What if the prenup is to protect the wife?  I have seen those in US marriages.  They seemed just as strange, but I understood the reasons.

Good point. If the American man has a lot of debt and he is upside down on his house due to the current market a pre-nup would protect the wife from incurring the debt I have been told.
A firend of mine just went through this exact scenario.

[Seeker]

Good point. If the American man has a lot of debt and he is upside down on his house due to the current market a pre-nup would protect the wife from incurring the debt I have been told.
A firend of mine just went through this exact scenario.

Not just that, but to make sure she is protected and provided for.  The law can work in mysterious ways.  It is best to spell out our desires if there might be a question...  But the term "prenup" has a definite male slant.  How about a "us-nup" to make everything clear that it is both of us agreeing to it and not just a one sided thing?

[alex330]

True. It may make a woman that is nervous about moving to a foreign country a feel more secure.
I have never believed in prenups personally, but sometimes decisions and choices are not so black and white.

[RussianWind]

What if the prenup is to protect the wife? I have seen those in US marriages.  They seemed just as strange, but I understood the reasons.

Do you mean cases when a young wife doesn't get enough sex?  

[Seeker]

Do you mean cases when a young wife doesn't get enough sex?  

I wish....


 

[Kuna]

Nope. Alex thinks this board was organized yestarday 

I saw gentlemen left without pants with their prenups for a memory.

I wouldn't sign for a simple reason. I personally think that if the prenup question arises, that means only one thing - your relationship has big cracks and the wise thing would be not to marry this man at all.

The OP wanted a RW's opinion... I believe he just got it!

[acrzybear]

Well the advantage of not being rich is that I don't have to worry about who gets what if things don't work out. 

[Gator]

“Marriage contracts” are becoming more common in Russia, and they essentially are prenups.  So the concept will not shock a RW.  However, I would not mention it until you are looking at rings.  And she should execute it there before arriving in your country.

First examine whether you need a prenup.  You seem young.  Do you have substantial assets now vs. what you could earn over the length of a marriage?  If yes, you need to protect them because people and circumstances change.

Do you participate in an ongoing family owned business? If so, you would not want a divorce to compel a sale of the business.

You may have already started a small business with much upside potential and this has you wondering "what if."   Such a business would be considered a marital asset if most of the value were realized after marriage.  Remember, while your efforts may earn millions, she receives equal credit for her contributions to the care and education of the children and services as homemaker.

The archives are replete with prenup discussions.  For how not to do it, search for posts by Ambach.

[tfcrew]

On a lot of issues like this it would be best to use the search engine provided above..
There are pages of results...

*Can't seem to link them but just enter 'prenup'...search
I believe that if a prenup seems to be really needed..someone made the wrong choice.
Besides, most of the courts [when it involves a foreign bride] will read this agreement, remark how well it is composed and proceed to throw it in the trash can.

[tfcrew]

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3732.0

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=71.0

 

[Aloe]

I dont like prenups, thats like saying "i dont trust you" to my face, if the purpose is to protect his assets that is. I did sign some contract before i got married, god knows whats in it, i couldnt read a word of dutch when we got married, i have to believe in what they told me  that in case one of us makes a business in the future and ends up in big debts, that way they wont seize assets registered in the other spouse's name

[alex330]

I did sign some contract before i got married, god knows whats in it, i couldnt read a word of dutch when we got married, i have to believe in what they told me 

You should ALWAYS know what you are signing...

[Aloe]

You should ALWAYS know what you are signing...

i know, but i trust him   See thats the thing, if somebody i was going to marry offered me to sign a prenup regarding ownership of something, even if its to protect somebody else, id still be offended that he doesnt trust me.

[kievstar]

If your going to do a prenup make sure you explain it to her before she marries you and leaves her country.  You should pay for her to have her own Russian lawyer to explain it to her while she is still living in Ukraine or Russia.

If you do get married and get a prenup, you better have it videotaped with the prenup being done with her own lawyer in English, Ukraine, and Russian.  Ukraine and Russian language is only important if the woman is from Ukraine.  Need to make sure she clearly understands it.  Video taping goes for American women as well.

There is a weekly or bi-weekly Russian paper in Texas for the state of Texas.  Very big paper with many attorneys advertised there.  You can find a good lawyer there maybe for your future wife if needed.

No matter what your prenup is if it is not done fairly a judge will throw it out.  Protecting family members is not enough.  The best divorce lawyers work on the woman's side.  That is where the money is.

An example of a real story that just happened.  Woman who speaks little English goes to USA on K-1 visa.  She comes to USA and they set wedding date.  Just prior to wedding the prenup is handed to her.  She is in shock.  Total surprise.  She consults people she knows.  Some how I get asked for advise through my wife.  I did not comment (as I am very negative on prenups and believe making money is easy) as I could have persuaded her easy to go home.  In the end she talked to enough people and she concluded the wedding was off and went home.  So my advice is you better bring this up before marriage and you better not tell this woman during your dating period you have money.  Telling her you have money and than telling her she is signing a prenup because you feel the marriage may not work will not sit well with her.

Men by nature outside Ukraine and Russia tend to be greedy.  Russian women generally do not like greedy men.  But greedy men tend to have a lot more money as money is more important to them.  You will not find many rich men who were not greedy prior to making their money.  After, many men tend to not be so greedy. 

Doll asked very good questions in this thread on details.  Without details no one can really give a good answer on a question.

I wish you well but do not talk about making more than 100K usd during dating period if you going the prenup way.  Best to say you do not make much than no surprise on prenup.

[alex330]

If your going to do a prenup make sure you explain it to her before she marries you and leaves her country.  You should pay for her to have her own Russian lawyer to explain it to her while she is still living in Ukraine or Russia.

Of course that would only be more than fair.

[GQBlues]

This is a statement of a very limited sampling of these affairs. The fact I only have 4 cases to look at, it however seem to be the same with each one. Marriages between RW and ex-pat living in the States (RMs). This flies in the same mode as pre-marital arrangement and agreements and all the rest of what we, AMs, talk about in how to have a relationship with RWs.

I know of 3 couples here in LA and 1 in the Bay Area.

One couple actually had an agreement prior to getting married that she will have to fully share half of all their expenses once she gets here. Food, rent, etc...They live in an apartment in the middle of the city. When the RW arrived, she literally used whatever money she had saved to use for their living expenses day one. Today, she had used up all the monies and are now getting monies from her parents to make up for the expense. She still doesn't have a car and is actively looking for work. She doesn't have insurance.

Couple two, expenses shared like #1, the woman had to basically work two jobs, one as a bartender (trainee) just to earn enough to pay her share of expense. No car. He won't even pick her up at night after work and make her take the last bus to get home. If she ever misses it she either ask a co-worker or he grudgingly picks her up.

Couple 3. While the woman doesn't work, he pretty much leaves every domestic work on her including care of their child. On Saturdays, he'll spend all day doig whatever he wants to do for himself. Sunday, he uses it to 'rest'.

SF Couple: She works and make a pretty good salary. So good in fact she can support her RM husband. She thinks he's just lazy as they can get by on her salary alone. But despite that, she professes to be very happy in their marriage.

The commonality on each of these marriages is the fact every single one of these women absolutely respects, admire, worship the very ground each of their respective husbands walk on. They won't do anything if *he* doesn't approve. You can also very easily tell each one of them are so very much in-love with their man. Each one doesn't believe there's anything *wrong* with their relationship.

Is this normal and true for relationships between RM/RW? I don't know, but the similarities in these 4 it sure make it look like it. If nothing else, it does make you go hhhmmm. LOL. I ask my wife if this is pretty much how it is in Russia, she just dismisses it and shrugs her shoulders. To note: every single one of these Russian man are actually pretty cool and fun guys to socialize with.

Pre-nup? I don't have one and could care less for it but that's not to say it's 'wrong'. I suppose you need to follow your instincts in how you *believe* will make yourself, your wife, and your marriage *work* and be happy with.

[tfcrew]

Consider the future near and distant...
 Potential children....
A spouse who works and contributes to the household welfare...
[purchasing a home and vehicles etc]

While prenuptial agreements are recognized in the United States and many foreign countries, the act of enforcing such an agreement is at the discretion of the presiding judge. The judge may decide that some aspects of a contract may be unenforceable; also, the couple's needs and assets may change as the marriage continues, creating the need to invest time and money into revising the agreement. The creation of a prenuptial agreement is an expense of both money and time that many young couples may not be able to afford. A prenuptial agreement may simply be deemed unenforceable, either in whole or in part, rendering it useless.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5057879_definition-prenuptial-agreements.html

[RussianWind]

I did sign some contract before i got married, god knows whats in it, i couldnt read a word of dutch when we got married, i have to believe in what they told me  

It was probably saying you should vacuum twices a week  

[kievstar]

GQ, is it because the RM can not get a good paying job here in the USA.  My experience here in the USA is the RW usually makes more money than her RM husband.  Because the higher educated jobs pay more in the USA where as the physical labour jobs are lowpaying in USA. RM tend to not have the higher education as their wifes I have run into in the USA.

[GQBlues]

kievstar-

I'm not really sure. I can probably count 12 RMs I personally know. The 4 I mentioned, one divorced, and others not involved in these marriages. Of all of them, one is a doctor who was once married to a Moscow woman. Even he was pretty tough. They're divorce now but I remember how he would be upset at how long his SIL takes a shower. He actually told his Moscow wife to tell her son that he need to take a shower in the boater's stall (we used to live in the harbor and there would be boats on the docks along our complex). He meant it too. She would walk with him in the morning and carry his change of clothing and wait while he showered at the boater's stall.

From my POV, I thought he's a jerk but I don't know. What may seem odd to me, may be normal for these Russian relations. Heck, maybe *I* am being odd for thinking him as a jerk. LOL.

What's odder still, the other ones are either dating or are married to, AWs. While you can see a little bit of those types of behavior, they are actually far more normal in their relationships than those married to RWs.

As for careers - my observations mirror yours.

[Gator]

It was probably saying you should vacuum twices a week  

[kievstar]

Aloe, you really should get your prenup translated.  People put in prenups strange things when it comes to when dinner must be served, how often house is to be cleaned, how many kids you must have, and what kind of sex you must do.  Not a joke.

[Al_C]

Who are you looking to protect?  Yourself, or someone else, such as children from a prior marriage who you want to preserve certain assets for?  If it is the latter, I think you have a much stronger case for the prenup.  You trust her; otherwise why would you be getting married.  But your children are not given the choice.  If you need one to protect them, I don't think that would be too much of a hard sell on your RW.

[alex330]

Who are you looking to protect?  Yourself, or someone else, such as children from a prior marriage who you want to preserve certain assets for?  If it is the latter, I think you have a much stronger case for the prenup.  You trust her; otherwise why would you be getting married.  But your children are not given the choice.  If you need one to protect them, I don't think that would be too much of a hard sell on your RW.

Yes, it would be to protect my extended family and child from a previous relationship. Otherwise I would not consider it in the least. It would be selfish in this case though.
Several RW have confirmed that they are very reasonable and would understand in this case. One member also brought up some very good questions that made me think as well. Thanks Doll 

Just a bit of info for anybody who may be contemplating a prenup or lurking. I have spoken to my attorney here in the US and in the foreign country where the investment is. It ultimately depends on the country where the marriage takes place. There are some "creative" things that can be done I am told, but you may as well not get married in that case as any trust would be out the door.