The Good, the bad, the ugly,... Get the truth.

[UTRO]

The dude singing looks like Seeker!!

No way! It was....

[Shadow]

No way! It was....

who was labeled as Seekers dark twin brother....

[BillyB]

 I have 12 forums/sites and 40 blogs and a new angler singles site.
 

Where do you have time to run 12 forums/sites and 40 blogs, go hunting and fishing, work for a company traveling all over that seeks professionals in the FSU, and post every few minutes averagiing 67.5 posts per day in forums such as this? When do you sleep? When do you have time for your RW girlfriend?

[UTRO]

who was labeled as Seekers dark twin brother....

you mean 'Darker' Twin Brother!

[Amerkanski]

Where do you have time to run 12 forums/sites and 40 blogs, go hunting and fishing, work for a company traveling all over that seeks professionals in the FSU, and post every few minutes averagiing 67.5 posts per day in forums such as this? When do you sleep? When do you have time for your RW girlfriend?

I have many people that work in my Network. To be straight forward it mostly runs on it's own. I've been doing this for 14 years. sleep is something i'll look forward to on a plane..

[Seeker]

you mean 'Darker' Twin Brother!

I am not dark!  I am eclectic and obtuse.   

[Turboguy]

Personally I hope the thread doesn't get locked for a while.  I am sitting out in San Diego with a lot of free time on my hands and it is rather entertaining. 

I think the OP has the same problem some others have here.  I think he thinks he is posting facts and he is really posting opinions.  It's easy to do and lots of others do it.  I think we are all a bit like the three blind men and the elephant.  We get a small view of Russia, its people, culture and women and form opinions.   I have made a few more trips than some of the guys and probably spent over a year in the FSU but not enough to know anything as fact.  Still I can think of lots of trips that would have given me the exact same opinion the OP has.  I have made trips that would make me feel something entirely different. 

I think too different people could look at the same thing in different ways.  RW often do want nice clothes and worry more about what others think.  Some guys might admire the pride they take in their appearance and others might look at them as wastefull and extravagant.  I found a very wonderful RW so I do know they exist.  I am sure there are others.  I think the OP brought up some good points but I would not recommend anyone dropping the idea over his comments.  Personally it is entirely possible that men who should not be doing this but are is as common a situation as women who are not good wife material but are on the sites.  This is not an easy quest.  Not as easy as the agencies try to tell people anyway.  Men need to have the resources, intestinal fortitude, the common sense and the emotional makeup to make this work.  They also need to be smart enough to weed through the women like the OP talks about.

[Amerkanski]

Personally I hope the thread doesn't get locked for a while.  I am sitting out in San Diego with a lot of free time on my hands and it is rather entertaining. 

I think the OP has the same problem some others have here.  I think he thinks he is posting facts and he is really posting opinions.  It's easy to do and lots of others do it.  I think we are all a bit like the three blind men and the elephant.  We get a small view of Russia, its people, culture and women and form opinions.   I have made a few more trips than some of the guys and probably spent over a year in the FSU but not enough to know anything as fact.  Still I can think of lots of trips that would have given me the exact same opinion the OP has.  I have made trips that would make me feel something entirely different. 

I think too different people could look at the same thing in different ways.  RW often do want nice clothes and worry more about what others think.  Some guys might admire the pride they take in their appearance and others might look at them as wastefull and extravagant.  I found a very wonderful RW so I do know they exist.  I am sure there are others.  I think the OP brought up some good points but I would not recommend anyone dropping the idea over his comments.  Personally it is entirely possible that men who should not be doing this but are is as common a situation as women who are not good wife material but are on the sites.  This is not an easy quest.  Not as easy as the agencies try to tell people anyway.  Men need to have the resources, intestinal fortitude, the common sense and the emotional makeup to make this work.  They also need to be smart enough to weed through the women like the OP talks about.

A well balanced post and a good read.

[Chicagoguy]

I do not believe there is a "fact" about Russian women. Or any "fact" about Russians. Even my Russian friends who have been born there and are still there can't agree so people like me are just left with our own opinions.

It truth, my experiences were quite different from almost all the other posters on this board so I often have to keep my mouth shut.

[Shadow]

It truth, my experiences were quite different from almost all the other posters on this board so I often have to keep my mouth shut.

It would be good if you would open it as all kinds of experiences are useful, even those of a certain American  Should you wish not to get too much  discussion you can always name your thread: "Info for old single Americans from Chicago" 

[Amerkanski]

I do not believe there is a "fact" about Russian women. Or any "fact" about Russians. Even my Russian friends who have been born there and are still there can't agree so people like me are just left with our own opinions.

It truth, my experiences were quite different from almost all the other posters on this board so I often have to keep my mouth shut.

Why? Believe me with one post I am still picking arrows out of my ass. WTS, I'll admit I've seen both sides of this fence. Case in point- I have a very good AM friend that is somewhat in the same business as me in Volgograd. We've been working in the same building for 3 years and very close when in-country. He lives in a different part of town, but we eat lunch together just about everyday when there. Anyway, he's the type of guy that loves the women, I mean he is a true man-whore and for years I saw him just go through RW like they were not going to make them anymore.

Then about a year ago he intros me to a sweet RW that comes from a good solid upper-class family that dresses conservative and always watching how not to waste anything? The type that will refuse to even buy a plastic bag in the market? Over the months I saw a complete change in him and just could not believe the things coming out of his mouth and could not believe how she truly changed him. He was head-over-heals and was visibly upset when he had to go back to the US for a business meet.

So he gets in-country and we meet and then he drops a bomb-shell and says he wants to show me something. He pulls out a huge rock and says he loves her and started in with the-it's time to settle down crap and I just start shaking my head telling him he's so F-ing stupid. He has seen so many of these marriages fail (like me) and knows most (not all-for the haters) RW change when away from family and back in the United Steak. A week later he popped the question with a nice party with her family ETC.

He heads back to the US to start the paper-chase and he’s not even back 2 months and I get a call. He said that after being home and truly thinking about it he knows he’s making a big mistake. I tell him a mistake is when you forget to dot an I and a bad choice is what you’ve done. This spineless ass called off the wedding over the phone and will not be back for another 4.5 months and she still agreed to give his ring back.

He asked for a “favor”-

I go back before him and he asked me if I could swing by her flat and pick up the ring and send it to him. I ask why she could not send the ring knowing full well it is illegal to mail jewelry anywhere in Russia and told him that. He then asked if I could hold on to the ring until he gets back. I told him I don’t want to get involved and maybe he should just let her keep it because it might cure him of his moronic tendencies and this might be a great life lesson be it an expensive life lesson.  

One thing at the engagement party I will always remember was how the RW was glowing as if the brightest star in the sky reached down and touched her in front of her family and friends. So never be hesitant to tell the good, the bad, the ugly.

[Misha]

I will always remember was how the RW was glowing as if the brightest star in the sky reached down and touched her in front of her family and friends. So never be hesitant to tell the good, the bad, the ugly.

So what exactly is the moral of your story? That expats can be [fill in with the expletive of your choice]? If you are here to tell us how bad RW are, your story is quite effectively communicating how RW can be hurt if they actually trust WM 

[kievstar]

Hi Amerkanski,

How old was this guy and was he married before? Any children

Reason I ask sounds like a guy afraid of commitment.  Or likes being single.

Usually when you give a wedding ring you never want it back. There are several threads on this board that got into heated debates about should the women give back the ring.  But this is a new twist you provided as the man called it off. Previous threads were the RW calling it off.

[kievstar]

Misha,

Majority of single expats are dirt bags.  They work in a shark tank (foreign women) and there company compensates them very well for being overseas.  Paid apartment, car, maid, driver, etc. They live a life which is at a higher level than they would have at home.

They become dirt bags as they use there money and being foreign to manipulate women.  This happens in all countries.  But is this different than the old man dating / writing young Russian women. 

[Amerkanski]

So what exactly is the moral of your story? That expats can be [fill in with the expletive of your choice]? If you are here to tell us how bad RW are, your story is quite effectively communicating how RW can be hurt if they actually trust WM 

Yes, hence both sides of the fence...

[Amerkanski]

double post look below..

[Amerkanski]

Hi Amerkanski,

How old was this guy and was he married before? Any children

Reason I ask sounds like a guy afraid of commitment.  Or likes being single.

Usually when you give a wedding ring you never want it back. There are several threads on this board that got into heated debates about should the women give back the ring.  But this is a new twist you provided as the man called it off. Previous threads were the RW calling it off.

The guy is in his 30's and does not have kids and never been married. I think he should just give it to her, but if she broke it off she would need to give back ring.

[Daveman]

The guy is in his 30's and does not have kids and never been married. I think he should just give it to her, but if she broke it off she would need to give back ring.

Heh, time to don the Kevlar undies, or use the trash lid, yon unsuspecting Arrowass... more should fly soon,. 

[Seeker]

The guy is in his 30's and does not have kids and never been married. I think he should just give it to her, but if she broke it off she would need to give back ring.

It is funny timing.  My ex-girlfriend just asked this question today.  Not about us.    We have been "just friends" for 5 years.  It was being discussed in her office.

The exact question was should she give it back or sell it... and I said it is her ring, it is up to her.  My ex was supporting the "She must give it back" side of the debate at the time.  I said if she has to give it back, where do you stop?  Every gift needs to be fought over?  Next will be "I bought that lingerie to see you in it!  I want it back!"

[Turboguy]

The USA expectations are that if the man breaks off the engagment she can keep the ring. If the woman does she should return it. Those rules don't necessarily apply to the FSU.

[Amerkanski]

The USA expectations are that if the man breaks off the engagment she can keep the ring. If the woman does she should return it. Those rules don't necessarily apply to the FSU.

I agree with you in this case. But are they getting married in the FSU? And this is where the cross-cultural problems start.. 

[Amerkanski]

It is funny timing.  My ex-girlfriend just asked this question today.  Not about us.    We have been "just friends" for 5 years.  It was being discussed in her office.

The exact question was should she give it back or sell it... and I said it is her ring, it is up to her.  My ex was supporting the "She must give it back" side of the debate at the time.  I said if she has to give it back, where do you stop?  Every gift needs to be fought over?  Next will be "I bought that lingerie to see you in it!  I want it back!"

As mentioned, in this case he should let her keep it. But in honesty she is not the type that would. I understand and agree that all gifts are gifts, but I don't think an engagement ring is a gift. It's a materialistic symbolism of a contract and if the contract is broken with no recourse then what is the point of giving an "engagement ring" in the first place?

I personally feel is a RW breaks off the marriage or you catch her with another and does not even offer to give your ring back you need to drop down to your knees and thank god for the warning. Finally, there is an old saying if you ever need to get back your ring and there is hostility. There is no such thing as diplomacy with Russian without leverage.

[Turboguy]

I personally feel is a RW breaks off the marriage or you catch her with another and does not even offer to give your ring back you need to drop down to your knees and thank god for the warning.

That is one of the truest things I have read on RWD.   So many times in life todays heartbreaking tragedy becomes tomorrows blessings when the dust settles and you see what a big mistake you avoided.   Sometimes it might be because the most wonderful woman in the world turns up later, sometimes the realization that you almost made one of your lifes biggest mistakes and hopefully sometimes both.

If an AM or AW writes Dear Abby about what is expeced concerning rings she will say exactly what I did earlier but even the concept of engagement rings is not that accepted in the FSU and I am sure some of them just see it as another gift and for the man to want it back makes him cheap.  Perhaps our member who caught flack a few years ago for giving a cubic zirconia engagement ring was really smarter than we gave him credit for.

[Fashionista]

Look, guys... Ahem... Maybe i'm old fashioned...

A ring isn't just a gift, it's a symbol of love. No relationship, no love - no ring, who wants it? Why would anyone want to keep it unless she was in it for the money?

There is no monetary value to being dumped.

[UTRO]

Western Women give back Engagement Rings? News to me