The Good, the bad, the ugly,... Get the truth.

[tfcrew]

Why would anyone want to keep it unless she was in it for the money?

Here in the states, as I have always understood, if the girl breaks off the engagement...she returns the ring.
If the guy backs out, she is under no obligation.

[Amerkanski]

Here in the states, as I have always understood, if the girl breaks off the engagement...she returns the ring.
If the guy backs out, she is under no obligation.

There is a simple solution I've seen a few times in RU. That is to give her the ring and tell her that it's going home with you because it is insured at home and it will be waiting for her when she gets there. If she refuses- you could not get a clearer message on what is about to come. Hence pay now or 10x later.

[Shadow]

There is a simple solution I've seen a few times in RU. That is to give her the ring and tell her that it's going home with you because it is insured at home and it will be waiting for her when she gets there. If she refuses- you could not get a clearer message on what is about to come. Hence pay now or 10x later.

There are crazy people everywhere in the world.   

[Maxx2]

There are crazy people everywhere in the world.   

Shadow, it least there is evidence of creative thinking of the OP 


Amerikanski, welcome to the board. I am perhaps the best example of the consequences of being naive in this endeavor. Check out my website that I and another guy created to help those victims of a bad choice in marriage mates  www.immigrationfraudvictims.us



Maxx

[Faux Pas]

Here in the states, as I have always understood, if the girl breaks off the engagement...she returns the ring.
If the guy backs out, she is under no obligation.

This has always been my experience as well. I believe at one time years ago I read it also in Dear Abby. I've never been in such a situation but have seen it happen to others and it generally worked this way.

[Amerkanski]

Shadow, it least there is evidence of creative thinking of the OP  


Amerikanski, welcome to the board. I am perhaps the best example of the consequences of being naive in this endeavor. Check out my website that I and another guy created to help those victims of a bad choice in marriage mates  www.immigrationfraudvictims.us



Maxx

Wow, caught a couple stories in your forum..brutal. A real crying sausage fest over there.

[Maxx2]

Wow, caught a couple stories in your forum..brutal. A real crying sausage fest over there.

Yes and I get calls all the time from them. Sometimes from their lawyers asking me for my legal opinion on how they should argue their clients case or for additional legal resources they can look into. I have been asked to be an expert witness. I was called by a TV news show producer for leads on these types of stories. I had a film of mine on the subject shown at the Heritage Foundation D.C. at their VAWA reform conference. Some politico somebody from the 80's named  Horowitz praised it. Yet I am considered a know-nothing schmuck around here about these women. I'm telling ya I get no respect.

Anyway I liked your initial posts. I knew immediately how this thread was going to devolve. Who the usual suspects are who were going to derail it. I was really pleased to read the insightfulness of Facetrock (that's pronounced "Facet Rock", he cuts semiprecious stones) and GQ. I was amazed at how wise these guys had become. Or perhaps it's me with them as in the Mark Twain quote: "When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years." 


Maxx

[Amerkanski]

Yes and I get calls all the time from them. Sometimes from their lawyers asking me for my legal opinion on how they should argue their clients case or for additional legal resources they can look into. I have been asked to be an expert witness. I was called by a TV news show producer for leads on these types of stories. I had a film of mine on the subject shown at the Heritage Foundation D.C. at their VAWA reform conference. Some politico somebody from the 80's named  Horowitz praised it. Yet I am considered a know-nothing schmuck around here about these women. I'm telling ya I get no respect.

Anyway I liked your initial posts. I knew immediately how this thread was going to devolve. Who the usual suspects are who were going to derail it. I was really pleased to read the insightfulness of Facetrock (that's pronounced "Facet Rock", he cuts semiprecious stones) and GQ. I was amazed at how wise these guys had become. Or perhaps it's me with them as in the Mark Twain quote: "When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years." 


Maxx

Is your film anywhere online? Also, did you build that website?

[Maxx2]

Is your film anywhere online? Also, did you build that website?

No, I just send DVD copies of it to those who ask for it. The film is called "Avi's Story" and is a "Pursuit of Happiness Production". It's 24 minutes long. It starts with a couple of clips of a Russian/American (US naturalised citizen) woman immigration attorney being very honest about this problem. The credits weaved through this and then it gets to the story. Avi is an Ukrainian immigrant to the US who had some real difficulties with his second wife Elena from Azerbaijan. The story is told by his first wife Ilona, their son Alex, Avi himself, another RW attorney and Zoya, "the wife of the boyfriend" (Avi's second wife's boyfriend's wife). I got smoking gun e-mail letter in there. The kind of letter you got from your former girlfriend and I have some detective's video footage Avi had taken. It's a potboiler.

No, I didn't build the website. That was built by another guy named Texan. He had the same problem with his ex-wife Elena. My ex-wife was also named Elena and so is Avi's. It seems that RW named Elena have to be specially watched out for LOL.


Maxx

[tfcrew]

There is a simple solution I've seen a few times in RU. That is to give her the ring and tell her that it's going home with you because it is insured at home and it will be waiting for her when she gets there. If she refuses- you could not get a clearer message on what is about to come. Hence pay now or 10x later.

I disagree...
If I were her I would refuse. Think about it.

Wave a prize in front of someone and then put it back in your pocket?
That would be so not cool.
Nothing to show her family and friends of a genuine proposal?
Bogus.
If things are really that questionable..better to buy the ring out of a gum machine.

[Amerkanski]

I disagree...
If I were her I would refuse. Think about it.

Wave a prize in front of someone and then put it back in your pocket?
That would be so not cool.
Nothing to show her family and friends of a genuine proposal?
Bogus.
If things are really that questionable..better to buy the ring out of a gum machine.

I absolutely understand your point and it's a good/great one. But what I've seen and "if" in that position it would be going home with me.

[Amerkanski]

No, I just send DVD copies of it to those who ask for it. The film is called "Avi's Story" and is a "Pursuit of Happiness Production". It's 24 minutes long. It starts with a couple of clips of a Russian/American (US naturalised citizen) woman immigration attorney being very honest about this problem. The credits weaved through this and then it gets to the story. Avi is an Ukrainian immigrant to the US who had some real difficulties with his second wife Elena from Azerbaijan. The story is told by his first wife Ilona, their son Alex, Avi himself, another RW attorney and Zoya, "the wife of the boyfriend" (Avi's second wife's boyfriend's wife). I got smoking gun e-mail letter in there. The kind of letter you got from your former girlfriend and I have some detective's video footage Avi had taken. It's a potboiler.

No, I didn't build the website. That was built by another guy named Texan. He had the same problem with his ex-wife Elena. My ex-wife was also named Elena and so is Avi's. It seems that RW named Elena have to be specially watched out for LOL.


Maxx

If you ever want to make it an internet film ie., Youtube, i'd me more then happy to do it for you free. This way if you want, you could load it on your website and a great way to get traffic to your website and more online exposure.

[Shadow]

I absolutely understand your point and it's a good/great one. But what I've seen and "if" in that position it would be going home with me.

Probably it would fit. 

[tfcrew]

I absolutely understand your point and it's a good/great one. But what I've seen and "if" in that position it would be going home with me.

Then..... [in all seriousness] why bother to bring it?
 

And just what did you 'see'?
One gold digger after another?
I didn't take the Hope Diamond or anything when I made my proposal visit.
It was a really neat engagement ring, but it cost less than the airline ticket.
 

[Gylden]

Since in the FSU there isn't the tradition of giving an engagement ring, why give one at all? As a first sign of respect to their culture.

IMO in this case the giving of the ring is more to satisfy the man than the woman.

 

[BC]

Since in the FSU there isn't the tradition of giving an engagement ring, why give one at all? As a first sign of respect to their culture.

IMO in this case the giving of the ring is more to satisfy the man than the woman.

 

In our case it was MIL that insisted.. sort of testing sincerity.. in western terms..

We ran down to the local jewelery store, picked one out and I was astonished.. I thought the ring with the higher price tag looked better so a couple hundred bucks later MIL gave her permission..

That was 8 years ago.. not in Moscow though.. LOL

[tfcrew]

Russians call "engagement rings" the rings that the couple exchanges during the wedding ceremony. The two buy them together; the groom pays; this is the necessary part of the wedding tradition. Russian engagement rings are in reality just plain wedding bands of gold, without diamonds or stones, and they wear them on the RIGHT hand on the finger next to the "pinky". (An "engagement ring" on the LEFT hand on the same finger will mean for Russians that the person is divorced or widowed, i.e. is not currently married but was married before.)

http://www.womenrussia.com/wedding.htm

[Gylden]

Yes there are quite a few countries where the wedding ring is worn on the right hand instead of the left hand.
In my case it was a few years after we were married that my wife LET me buy her a diamond.
 

[Amerkanski]

Probably it would fit. 

...."it WOULD probably fit". If you going to try and insult someone at least structure it right.

[Amerkanski]

Then..... [in all seriousness] why bother to bring it?

It's a polite way of saying I don't share your opinion.

And just what did you 'see'?

More then a few breakups and ring arguments.

One gold digger after another?

Na, IMO it depends where you are in FSU and what part of the social cast they come from.

I didn't take the Hope Diamond or anything when I made my proposal visit.

It has to do with our culture too. Meaning, if I am going to spend 2-3 months of my salary on a ring then it's coming home with me. OR just simply buy here a type of band? ..and then exchange in when she get's to the US...now that sounds a bit cheesy.
 

[CanadaMan]

...."it WOULD probably fit". If you going to try and insult someone at least structure it right.

Don't you just love it when a fellow with a poor command of a language tries to correct another fellow's grammar? 

Shadow simply left out a comma, that's all.
"Probably <,>  it would fit."

You however, commenced to make four grammatical errors in one short sentence!!!
"If you <are> going to try <xandx> <to> insult someone <,> at least structure it <xrightx> <correctly>. "

[Amerkanski]

Don't you just love it when a fellow with a poor command of a language tries to correct another fellow's grammar? 

Shadow simply left out a comma, that's all.
"Probably <,>  it would fit."

You however, commenced to make four grammatical errors in one short sentence!!!
"If you <are> going to try <xandx> <to> insult someone <,> at least structure it <xrightx> <correctly>. "

it needed to be a grammatical error for him to understand it. 

[ECOCKS]

I gave my wife an engagement ring when I proposed. She understands it's our custom, just as I understand it is not theirs. Any WM who gives an engagement ring thinking they will get it back no matter who calls it off, is more than a bit presumptive and is demonstrating he has no business being in a cross-cultural relationship.

As for wearing it, when she wears it she does so on the left hand, thereby following our customs. However, since they regard them more as regular jewelry in their culture, she rarely wore it in Ukraine. Even here she often forgets to wear it and worries about losing it or being robbed of it while out and about.

[tfcrew]

Then..... [in all seriousness] why bother to bring it?

It's a polite way of saying I don't share your opinion.
 

I guess  the question was misunderstood
I should have phrased it better...
 Why bother to take a ring that you know you will return with anyway...?

 

if I am going to spend 2-3 months of my salary on a ring then it's coming home with me.
   

 Three months salary!?
Are you sure you can afford this RW venture?

The common view of marriage to American gentlemen has changed  vastly in Eastern Europe over the past years..they know what's going on...He went to Jarad!
 New engagement rings...new....starts at $389.99

 http://www.jared.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchResultsView?langId=-1&storeId=10451&catalogId=10001&N=0&Ne=1&Ntk=Products&Ntt=engagement&searchButton.x=20&searchButton.y=10

[Amerkanski]

I gave my wife an engagement ring when I proposed. She understands it's our custom, just as I understand it is not theirs. Any WM who gives an engagement ring thinking they will get it back no matter who calls it off, is more than a bit presumptive and is demonstrating he has no business being in a cross-cultural relationship.

As for wearing it, when she wears it she does so on the left hand, thereby following our customs. However, since they regard them more as regular jewelry in their culture, she rarely wore it in Ukraine. Even here she often forgets to wear it and worries about losing it or being robbed of it while out and about.

That's a good point on the different understanding of the meaning of jewelry. I got a very good deal on a tennis bracelet and brought and gave it to my girlfriend. I've only seen her wear it one time and then it goes to the magical place RW store jewelry. I asked her why she does not wear it and she stated she did not want to lose it or bring any unwanted attention to it.