The Good, the bad, the ugly,... Get the truth.

[Doll]

I can say bad things about marriages in general, but they only apply to those who are not ready for the endeavor.
Is this what you mean?

Yes. To be married to RW (UW) you need much more patience and understanding than any average man. Amer is not the one- that's all.
But yet there are and always be things that AM miss in the relationships with RW- mentality and the way AW behave. RW are different, AM are not used to it.
  Now and then I have some RW in the house. John is polite and ok  
But watch him when he is in the company with AW! Relaxed and never shut up.
 After 8 years of our marriage I still watch it.
Just a small situation- my friend (AW) and I stopped at the bar to have a drink, my husband was there too. Oh, God! He'd never seen her before, she is totally out of his league  (I am not), unattractive and very simple but you need to see how they talked! Everything- food, kids, money. Now and then John remarked,"See, Irina! This  is how WE think" I am the parent with VERY good results, they are not, yet "See how WE think!" Yes- they think same and different from me. I didn't react- had my drink and shut up.
  Yes, we think differently- none is better, we are different. AM very often think "different" is wrong.
 I know both sides, so does Amer. He is missing something but it is ok.

[Gylden]

Doll,
It was very diplomatic of you to not say anything, but maybe not so productive for your future. (maybe you are becoming Americanised lol).
I probably shouldn't say anything but what the heck it is a forum. Of course I wasn't there, so hard to say exactly, but your husband IMO is making a mistake and you are helping him to do it. You obviously were affected by his statement (understandably IMO), He probably was kidding (at least I hope so). In some nonconfrontational way maybe you should say something to him, so he understands?  OK I will but out!!

I wish I would have had children with my Ukrainian wife, her way with kids and family are different it is sure, but you can't argue with results and she has two of the finest kids I have ever met.

[Doll]

It was very diplomatic of you to not say anything, but maybe not so productive for your future. (maybe you are becoming Americanised lol).

I was not diplomatic (RW are not often diplomatic)- I know the situation. The situation is that all three of us have kids about same age (30 and 16-me, 25 and 20- my husband, 20 and 16- this woman). I know how it is going with all of these kids, I personally met all of them (and raised mine). Who is sometimes rude to their parents, who never calls them, who never care for how the parents feel?
 And many other things? To tell these two all this when they do know that,  yet "See how we think?" Come on!
 What future? My step kids are 25 and 20 and we have what we have.
Besides it is often just a waste of time- to prove anything to Americans.
Hope I am not getting any warnings from Admin 

[Daveman]

Yes. To be married to RW (UW) you need much more patience and understanding than any average man. Amer is not the one- that's all.
But yet there are and always be things that AM miss in the relationships with RW- mentality and the way AW behave. RW are different, AM are not used to it...

So, to take this a step further, what exactly are some of the differences which we miss? What are some of the larger hurdles which we face? Can you describe this mentality of RW in a way that will enhance our understanding?

[Fashionista]

So, to take this a step further, what exactly are some of the differences which we miss? What are some of the larger hurdles which we face? Can you describe this mentality of RW in a way that will enhance our understanding?

I don't know if it's possible.  Technically I'm sure there are many Russian or American couples that don't understand each other, and they speak the same language, just have different background, raised in different environments.  However, people who speak same language and got common sense can easily avoid these pitfalls, may only take 5 minutes of exchange. You don't need to carry a manual with red flags written out by some internet experts for you, classified and categorized, your intuition is your best manual.

People who speak different languages, on the other hand...  Someone meets a pretty face, she is "interested in him", they don't speak common language to start with, цигель, цигель, ай-люлю, they are married, 2 years later down the road it turns out they are completely different people. What a shock. And that's the scenario in which both parties are sincere. What if they are not? Courting a person from a different country just has an additional risk factor.  It doesn't mean it is never going to work out, just less likely.

My recommendation is: if you feel very uncomfortable with something, don't say - oh it's just their culture. Maybe it's not. And even if it is, how are you going to live with that? Is this important for you? Maybe you should try and meet some other person, and there'll be no "cultural" misunderstandings. Just like normal dating.

[Amerkanski]

Part II:

I get back to my flat and start cooking (always remember matches) and made myself a fine meal of something with rice and peppers that came from a frozen bag and I mix it with frozen muscles. I topped it of with incredible smoked (wild king) salmon and roe. Life was complete. In my kitchen there was this very old ratio nailed to the wall, but only had one station with very old Soviet Style music and I loved it. Within an hour I caught myself marching around my flat wishing I had a tank.

The next morning I see the same old couple cleaning the building area sweeping and such, so I fold a 100 ruble note and drop it through the cage that is my first floor balcony. She finds it and he promptly takes it for the vodka fund. I need a steak so I head out to attempt the butcher section of that open air market. Although, they did have a vast selection of lard I still could not bring myself to buy anything. It was just pork, pork, and more pork. I made my very first mistake and started to take photos of the market and did something stupid and took a photo of the crowd. Some guy just freaked out and got in my face and a large crowd started to form around me. I was thankful because I had dark sunglasses on and they could not see my eyes, but it was developing to a very bad situation and I was getting very scared. Then some younger guy came up and started to grab my camera and I screamed "get the F@#$% off me" and the crowed went silent.

AMERKANSKI!!!!- was then my new name. I flipped open the digital camera window and started to delete pictures in-front of them and was so scared I started to delete all my pictures of the city center war memorials and that is when he stopped me. He (young guy) grabbed my arm and tried to pull me out of there and thought it was a good idea so I went. We get out of the building around the back and he starts pulling at my camera and arm. So I pulled my arm away and gave him a look to never do that again. He did not believe me so I forearmed him in the mouth and this stunned him. I remember seeing a small booth where the police hang out and I quickly made my way there. He followed me and when I got there he quickly left, so I took off thinking how am I going to last 3 months...

More later



 

[Doll]

So, to take this a step further, what exactly are some of the differences which we miss? What are some of the larger hurdles which we face?

It might have something to do with the background- the social group, the way people were raised. This is what occurs in any marriage.
Also- the life style and the cultural differences of upbringing.
I don't say these things can not be overcome- they can be very hard to deal with.

  Can you describe this mentality of RW in a way that will enhance our understanding?

I am not sure but I'll think of it.

[dogspot]

I made my very first mistake and started to take photos of the market and did something stupid and took a photo of the crowd.

This mistake could be beneficial for new guys...Be careful where you point your camera. I generally don't take my camera out unless I am in the presence of Russian friends and/or acquaintances.

[Jumper]

"See how we think?" Come on!

Doll ,
seriously ,John wasn't proper in this, joking or not, and not all Amercan men think this way at all.
many would talk it out,  to a mutual  understanding of the differences..the positives and negatives of both views.

While my wife and i had very dissimilar views on child rearing ,it had little to do with the cultural difference,
 and far more to do with personal backgrounds.
Her RW friends told her countless times that they agreed with my take on those things.
Still i wouldn't say to her "See how WE think?" 
I tried to understand how she thought , and why..she felt that way..


I do agree, the cultural differences can be a problem,,
but i don't believe that it is something a couple cant get past or understand each other.
its not unsurmountable.

It's making Russians sound so mysterious they cant possibly be understood at some deeper level ?
 yet all the while the rest *here* are proclaiming  that *women are women* everywhere.
They are either different or the same..,
 but in any case humans can relate and understand each others differences if they want to.

My best friend is a RW here,,just as much in common or more so than an AW.
 if your husband "clicks " with AW,  maybe it is because of culture.. but i havn't experienced that.
(and yes i like AW just fine)


As you alluded to ,there are personality types that anything different is "bad"

This is not a good venture for them , That is for sure!

[ECOCKS]

Finally this thread finds it's way back on track and you want to suggest the OP start a new thread to tell a story that is totally relevant to the message he is trying to convey?

 

Please continue, Amerikanski.

Who pulled your string?

Another person makes my Ignore list.

[Boethius]

I was not diplomatic (RW are not often diplomatic)- I know the situation. The situation is that all three of us have kids about same age (30 and 16-me, 25 and 20- my husband, 20 and 16- this woman). I know how it is going with all of these kids, I personally met all of them (and raised mine). Who is sometimes rude to their parents, who never calls them, who never care for how the parents feel?
 And many other things? To tell these two all this when they do know that,  yet "See how we think?" Come on!
 What future? My step kids are 25 and 20 and we have what we have.
Besides it is often just a waste of time- to prove anything to Americans.
Hope I am not getting any warnings from Admin 

No offense, Doll, but don't you think in your husband's case, that might have something to do with the fact he divorced, remarried and has another family (meaning  you)?  I know his sons spent time with him and you, but I think this result is the consequence of a broken family.

[steveh1155]

This mistake could be beneficial for new guys...Be careful where you point your camera. I generally don't take my camera out unless I am in the presence of Russian friends and/or acquaintances.

Is this only in Russia? I carried my camera out everywhere & generally took photos of anything I wanted - crowds, at the markets, churches inside & out in full view of the Priests, government buildings - the only thing I was ever advised was, if you want the shot, don't ask permission first! Of course my experience is limited to Kiev and the small outlying areas, and thus attitudes may be different, but I was ignored and no one ever bothered me in the least.

[ECOCKS]

I never saw any indication of this anti-picture mentality in Ukraine, That includes the large cities, medium cities, small villages, fortresses, museums, demonstrations, parades, classrooms, rinoks, homes, buildings, businesses and such, dating from 2006.

[tfcrew]

Disoriented completely after the #548 post...

 (P1) What kind of dog do you have and does it also crap on the neighbors lawn?
(P2) Do you pick it up? etc etc blah blah yawn
 

to help single guys with their first trip to Russia.

Didn't sign up as a commercial member.
 
After two years..for the first time.. I believe I will utilize the ignore option with this one.
 

[dogspot]

Who pulled your string?

Another person makes my Ignore list.

Wow! Now that's what I call sensitive.

[Doll]

It's my own 8 years experience in this country- I mean "this is how we think, this is how we do" meaning "this is the rightest thing to do"
That's fine with me- I understand this well known American "we're the best".
My post about this "accident" in the bar was not about right or wrong- it was about the differences in cultures.
You have no clue how many people here "taught" me how to do things! I just shut up because it is not worth discussing- how to raise kids, how to shop, how to spend money, how to.....they know best! "This is how we do"
BY THE WAY you, guys, watched how many times the way RW posted- their thoughts and approaches were severely criticized by "good men". Remember? Maxx and me, Ken and me, admin and me? You do remember. How many times did we, RW, hear on this  board "because I said so". Many times. So what are we talking about?

[CanadaMan]

Is this only in Russia? I carried my camera out everywhere & generally took photos of anything I wanted - crowds, at the markets, churches inside & out in full view of the Priests, government buildings - the only thing I was ever advised was, if you want the shot, don't ask permission first!.....

I was stopped twice in my life while abroad.
The first time was in Bucharest. I was walking down a beautiful street where most of the foreign embassies are located.

I was clicking away and then as I approached the Canadian Embassy
a man walked up to me and motioned me not to take any pictures. The freakin' Canadian Embassy in Romania!

The second instance occurred when I was in an art museum in Sofia. There was a special display of Picasso artwork. I was given the dirty eye the moment a security person noticed my camera until I made my way out of the building! He just wouldn't let me out of his sight.

[Doll]

CanadaMan, it is all about security. I am not talking of poor Amer at the market.
I can picture this guy there! 

[ECOCKS]

I was stopped twice in my life while abroad.
The first time was in Bucharest. I was walking down a beautiful street where most of the foreign embassies are located.

I was clicking away and then as I approached the Canadian Embassy
a man walked up to me and motioned me not to take any pictures. The freakin' Canadian Embassy in Romania!

The second instance occurred when I was in an art museum in Sofia. There was a special display of Picasso artwork. I was given the dirty eye the moment a security person noticed my camera until I made my way out of the building! He just wouldn't let me out of his sight.

OOooops, I forgot, there was an incident at the US Embassy one night. A friend tried to take a picture of the Embassy at around 2AM and was intercepted by 2 Ukrainian policemen. Turns out it is against the law in Ukraine to take a picture of a foreign embassy in Ukraine. It was an ugly incident though and eventually one of the US supervisors or security guys came out to try to calm things down.

In England I was searched and my camera was examined when I snapped a picture of a policeman.

[Doll]

It makes sense!

[OlgaH]

You have no clue how many people here "taught" me how to do things! I just shut up because it is not worth discussing- how to raise kids, how to shop, how to spend money, how to.....they know best! "This is how we do"

Doll I don't remember a website where I read the story by one Russian woman. After a week of woman's arrival to US her mother in law came to visit them and begun to explain: "This is a stove. In US we cook on stove, it also has an oven... this is a vacuum you don't need to use a broom... Hot and cold water in the kitchen... " Finlay when the MIL took her in bathroom the woman said: "I know it is not just a bathtub but a whirlpool, good not only for relaxing but also to wash off all the sh!t that was put on your during the day. Definitely I will have it today ".  

[steveh1155]

I was stopped twice in my life while abroad.
The first time was in Bucharest. I was walking down a beautiful street where most of the foreign embassies are located.

I was clicking away and then as I approached the Canadian Embassy
a man walked up to me and motioned me not to take any pictures. The freakin' Canadian Embassy in Romania!

The second instance occurred when I was in an art museum in Sofia. There was a special display of Picasso artwork. I was given the dirty eye the moment a security person noticed my camera until I made my way out of the building! He just wouldn't let me out of his sight.

Didn't know about the embassies - guess that makes sense though. Flash photography is generally prohibited inside any museum worldwide because of conservation issues such as with artwork and textiles.

[dogspot]

Is this only in Russia? I carried my camera out everywhere & generally took photos of anything I wanted - crowds, at the markets, churches inside & out in full view of the Priests, government buildings - the only thing I was ever advised was, if you want the shot, don't ask permission first! Of course my experience is limited to Kiev and the small outlying areas, and thus attitudes may be different, but I was ignored and no one ever bothered me in the least.

I don't know from experience but I have heard and/or read stories of people having their camera's "confiscated", destroyed or being fined for taking photos of militsia and OMON. Perhaps it's a myth but I have always played it safe by not taking photos of folks if I can't talk my way out of the situation.

As far as photos in public alone...I don't want to stick out like a tourist and be "eye mugged" by the wrong people. I’ve been some places “off the beaten path” where I wouldn’t want some people to know I’m a foreigner. The OP mentioned one of his encounters and that is exactly what I want to avoid.

 

[OlgaH]

As there are many photos of Russian militia posted in the Internet I guess those people escaped  penalty and a dog or were lucky to be unnoticed  

[Jumper]

It's my own 8 years experience in this country- I mean "this is how we think, this is how we do" meaning "this is the rightest thing to do"
That's fine with me- I understand this well known American "we're the best".
My post about this "accident" in the bar was not about right or wrong- it was about the differences in cultures.
You have no clue how many people here "taught" me how to do things! I just shut up because it is not worth discussing- how to raise kids, how to shop, how to spend money, how to.....they know best! "This is how we do"
BY THE WAY you, guys, watched how many times the way RW posted- their thoughts and approaches were severely criticized by "good men". Remember? Maxx and me, Ken and me, admin and me? You do remember. How many times did we, RW, hear on this  board "because I said so". Many times. So what are we talking about?

Doll, ok?  true enough?
 and *some* RW say the same thing, the way they have always done something is the "one  right way"
it only proves that both sides can be rigid, stubborn, and not open to new ideas?
I can certainly imagine an AM thinking his way ,and his country is the "best"
I can equally imagine a RW thinking the same and sticking to the idea, no matter what.

as far as people "showing you "
I'm a bit surprised you just dint tell them , you wanted to do it your way,  and it was your business to do so.
end of discussion.

The similar comments on the forum? yes  I've watched and  noticed them ,
and shook my head..
wondering why some of the AM would ever consider marrying abroad if their views are so *closed minded*.
Which has been posted as well.

I understand , and believe that is your 8 year experience.

Now,since you are advising AM , NOT to marry a RW ....
 i'd like you to consider something.
Do you think your 8 years experience would be the same if you lived in Chicago?
Or any major city with a huge immigrant population that is quite used to different cultures and views ,as well as ways of doing things.
My "ex" experienced very little of what you are talking about in her 6 years here so far,and unless she moves to a more rural location it's doubtful she ever would.
 
An AM well traveled, open minded, and from a major city , really shouldn't run into half what the OP is talking about.
While a good portion of what he says rings true ,another portion is brought on by him ,just being him, in any culture.
A RW, who is open minded and relocated to a major western city,, will have some culture shock ,just like the OP
but her results will be reflective of not only the culture,but her ability to adapt or accept that different isnt "bad:" as well.
If she relocates to a rural area, then absolutely it is even more culture shock ,
as any AW *city girl* from a USA city,,  would also experience that moving out to a small rural town or rural area.

The biggest cultural differences my ex has noticed were that people drive more ,don't walk much.Live often o credit..so the vbalnce of wages to what sowed is different ,and that in general people were more friendly
(but yes sometimes it is fake)That AM tend to look younger..
That product availibility is better of fruits foods, etc.
and that you can return many products bought with no hassles . .which to her that alone is worth a relocation of countries LOL!
Anyway hardly life shaking differences.
That said, she lived a stones throw away from plenty of russian grocery stores ,and over  a million eastern eurpeans in the area.
So I think some of the problems lie in that there are large cultural differences just with in the countries themselves.