Woman: from friend to lover after some time?

[Lily]

Many thanks for your replies dears!`   Happy Valentines Day to you all 

So, do I see it correct that when a man meets a woman he first instinctively thinks about her whether he wants to have sex with her? That means, first he evaluates her as a potential sexual partner?

If yes, would he do this in whatever setting?

What if he makes a hiring decision at work and looks for a business partner, not lover? Would his instincts still be talking in such situation?

[Seeker]

Many thanks for your replies dears!`   Happy Valentines Day to you all 

So, do I see it correct that when a man meets a woman he first instinctively thinks about her whether he wants to have sex with her? That means, first he evaluates her as a potential sexual partner?

If yes, would he do this in whatever setting?

What if he makes a hiring decision at work and looks for a business partner, not lover? Would his instincts still be talking in such situation?

Happy Valentines! 


For me, I might think things when I first meet a woman... I am a man.  But the mental part of a relationship is far more important than the physical.  And I do like the physical... but it is empty without the heart. 

And I have been the employee and she was the boss. 

[myrddin]

What if he makes a hiring decision at work and looks for a business partner, not lover? Would his instincts still be talking in such situation?

I dare say that the voice of instinct is there for any man under the age of 984...but hopefully in some contexts, such as business, it can be reduced to a whisper. Or at least shouted down by the fear-of-lawsuits voices in the US 

[Mars]

Many thanks for your replies dears!`   Happy Valentines Day to you all 

So, do I see it correct that when a man meets a woman he first instinctively thinks about her whether he wants to have sex with her? That means, first he evaluates her as a potential sexual partner?

If yes, would he do this in whatever setting?

What if he makes a hiring decision at work and looks for a business partner, not lover? Would his instincts still be talking in such situation?

I would reword it somewhat Lily. Most men will think about any woman as a potential sex partner . . . provided she is within the appropriate age bracket, as judged by himself.  But this doesn't have to happen in the first instant of meeting. So I wouldn't say he 'first evaluates her as a potential sexual partner.'  The evaluation will happen eventually, but not necessarily right away.  It depends on the 'setting' as you mentioned.

For instance, I have hired several women for different positions within different companies.  During the interview process I really can and do focus on trying to decide if she is the best person for the job.  I know that romance with a person at work is very dangerous, so I push that out of my mind and concentrate on who I think will do the best job and make me look good at my job.

After I have made the hiring decision (or recommended it), my male instincts come back into play and I fantasise about the various women I interviewed . . . including the woman hired.  But I never have done anything about this fantasising, unless I happen to meet the woman again in a different setting; i.e. she and I are working at different firms, etc.

However, be aware that the atmosphere for 'on the job' romance, pressures for sex from female employees and sexual dalliances can vary substantially from country to country.  In the USA there can be extreme penalties applied to men for such behavior, so that cuts down on such activity substantially, even though new court cases arise each year.  In other countries, female employees are more openly and directly viewed and treated as potential sex partners; just the same as they would be if they were first met at a nightclub.

[Gator]

Haven't read the thread, but seems like a good one.  I will respond just based on the title of the thread.

My strong opinion is that the best marriages are those couples who are true friends.  That being the case, why not friends first!

Lily, I have met you and I think this scenario is possible in your case. 

You are a very friendly and easy going person with an interesting background, exactly the type of person who would be a good friend.  Nevertheless, you are well endowed and I find it difficult that any man would not fantasize sexually at times when talking with you, especially if he is a "breast man."

Pardon my frank talk, yet I consider you a distant friend.  When I met you I had no fantasies because a) my physical attention was taken by my future wife and b) I found you interesting.

Ignore the following personal question if you wish as I am being forward.  Is the title of this thread something that happened to you or  could happen?  Probably discussed earlier in this thread.

[Lily]

Thank you all my dears  Gator, your last comment is very heartwarming for me to read 

Me too, I consider you and some more RWD guys as my distant friends, and given my visa and tickets in hand, perhaps in the future we will see each other (for you Gator see you and your wife again )

Well, Gator is right in his last post, this situation happened to me through all my life. The men who were attractive to me considered me a friend who never turned into their lover. They loved other women.

Also I think about a phenomenon of male attraction, it looks like men show their interest right away, and if the woman seems not to be responsive at the first time of knowing each other, they move on and the woman never gets a chance to win them back. So my understanding is that if you don't position yourself as romantic partner right away, you are lost for this man. Time is not on the woman's side. But we need the time. Little problem with this...

[Shostakovich]

Well, Gator is right in his last post, this situation happened to me through all my life. The men who were attractive to me considered me a friend who never turned into their lover. They loved other women.

Also I think about a phenomenon of male attraction, it looks like men show their interest right away, and if the woman seems not to be responsive at the first time of knowing each other, they move on and the woman never gets a chance to win them back. So my understanding is that if you don't position yourself as romantic partner right away, you are lost for this man. Time is not on the woman's side. But we need the time. Little problem with this...

Interesting turn on the thread.  In fact, Lilly, I think your the girl who would probably drive men off as you are much smarter and culturally aware than the most of them. 

I can't believe Gator's breast man comment, but it is true -- I'd say you are very attractive. 

Time is the enemy of women, it is true, but it all evens out.  Men get the short end of the stick early on when they do not have a position in the world and women, if desirable, do not want the diamond in the rough.  Advance the clock 10 years and, if the man has kept to his game, he has come up in the world and has his pick.  It's nature's rule, not mine.  For a woman, they must cash their chips in at the right time.  Don't dumb down though, Lilly, I am certain you'll find your man as you do not need to be <30 in the North America to find a good man. 

[Lily]

Shosty, thanks for your kind words  Interestingly, you apparently talk about years or even decades of time, and I have been talking about probably days or weeks when I meant that time is not on the woman's side. It was about attracting particular men.

[Shostakovich]

I am afraid it is worse and better than that.  The chemistry check out takes 10 seconds.  Gross compatibility concerns take a few hours or days to resolve.  After that it takes between 6 mo. and 1 year to determine long term compatibility.

 

[MR01]

Lily, any man who doesn't check you out for that sort of compatibility is gay or dead ! Although with your character, intelligence & looks you obviously require a man who's confident in himself, has a high EQ, & is easy on your eye. Ask any single woman & they'll tell you there's not too many of them around !

[Shostakovich]

The honeyed words flow from the multitude of ambitious suitors - so many men, so little time.

[OmegaSupreme]

The honeyed words flow from the multitude of ambitious suitors - so many men, so little time.

Yes, no kidding!  But, they're all right. Lily certainly is a hottie. 

[Simoni]

Guys,

I have seen a similar question posted about whether a man has chances to transform into a lover, when he was once categorized as a friend by a woman?

How about a woman friend? Would you be able to regard her with some sexual undertones after you have been 'just friends' for, say, months or even years, if she started to make you signs of attraction?

What if a smart girl used to be mediocre looking but hired a stylist, a personal trainer and made herself beautifully looking, would you see her with different eyes?

My guess is "no."  For me, chemistry is the key, and it happens in seconds.  While all women can be friends, only those I have chemistry could be lovers.   I don't think chemistry is about looks; rather, it is an attraction of the soul and personality.  Those do not change, so my answer is "no," a person you are not interested in initially will not later become your lover.

[Daveman]

...

My strong opinion is that the best marriages are those couples who are true friends.  That being the case, why not friends first!


...

I absolutely agree with this.  I have to say, of the relationships I have had, the strongest ones were the ones which grew slowly over time, beginning as friends.  Of course, that immediate chemistry, within seconds, is something special and of course I have felt and have been guided by that at times of course, but the biggest, deepest emotions I've felt have all come in relationships where I was friends with a woman for a while first and then it just grew.  I guess that also takes a certain kind of chemistry between people. And perhaps that also has a lot to do with the timing, specific situations, etc. but when that growth does happen, it's pretty iincredible.

With the instant chemistry there is a passionate lust phase, and then you begin to really get to know a person.  With the friend first scenario, the bond grows by knowing the person first, and then building upon that in other ways.

Could this happen with a woman for whom I had zero attraction? Hmmm, probably not.  I do know that certain women in my life with whom there was not a great deal of physical attraction at first became amazingly beautiful in my eyes over the time of getting to know her.  Of course that would not have happened without a compatible, chemistry of personalities so overall I would say that it is very possible with the right people and under the right circumstances, and when it does happen, there is a bond that is absolutely amazing.

[Misha]

What if a smart girl used to be mediocre looking but hired a stylist, a personal trainer and made herself beautifully looking, would you see her with different eyes?

Depends how much alcohol was consumed  Sorry, couldn't resist.

Seriously, the answer would be no in most cases. If the "chemistry" does not happen right away, it is unlikely to happen a few months or a few years later. If a man was a "friend" and didn't try to be more than friends, it is unlikely that he will change. But, if he was shy and had a hidden crush on you, and you were to let him know that you were interested, then maybe... But, again, it would be because he had wanted to be more than just friends all along.

[Gylden]

IMO I don't think you can attach any fixed rules with this. I knew girls I went to school with whom I had no chemistry with at all, but then later, WOW there was suddenly plenty. Also the reverse, I met some women later in life who I felt plenty of chemistry with that later in life felt nothing at all.
I believe that friends can become lovers, without a doubt in my mind.
 

[Misha]

IMO I don't think you can attach any fixed rules with this.

True, but I wouldn't recommend either that a woman get her hopes up and think that if she changes herself that he will somehow change his point of view and be miraculously into her. If it happens fine, if not, there are many more of those proverbial male fish in the sea 

[Gylden]

Absolutely correct Misha!

[Lily]

Interesting turn on the thread.  In fact, Lilly, I think your the girl who would probably drive men off as you are much smarter and culturally aware than the most of them. 
 

Nice words which are to be appreciated of course. But the thing about 'men are intimidated by the woman's intellect therefore men ate not into this woman' does not seem to be a viable point at all.

[Mars]

Quote from: Shostakovich on February 14, 2010, 10:49:49 PM
Interesting turn on the thread.  In fact, Lilly, I think your the girl who would probably drive men off as you are much smarter and culturally aware than the most of them.
 

Nice words which are to be appreciated of course. But the thing about 'men are intimidated by the woman's intellect therefore men are not into this woman' does not seem to be a viable point at all. 

Lily, you should give more credence to Shosty's words.  I like very smart women.  But in my discussions with many men and many women, I find that I am somewhat unusual in this regard.  Sure, most men on a public forum will claim they are not intimidated by smart women, but in private over a beer they will spill the true story.

Pacifica said she has to rule out about 80% of men because of her height.  Unfortunately for you, you are also going to have to rule out (or be ruled out by) a very big % of the pool.

[Gator]

Interesting turn on the thread.  In fact, Lilly, I think your the girl who would probably drive men off as you are much smarter and culturally aware than the most of them.   

Lily, you should give more credence to Shosty's words.  I like very smart women.  But in my discussions with many men and many women, I find that I am somewhat unusual in this regard..... Unfortunately for you, you are also going to have to rule out (or be ruled out by) a very big % of the pool.

Really bad advice IMO.  What "many men and women" say such?  Men who want a sex slave and maid.  Men who want a woman to remain silent.  Women who are not as smart as they think they are.

...the thing about 'men are intimidated by the woman's intellect therefore men ate not into this woman' does not seem to be a viable point at all.

Go girl!  Don't dumb down.

A smart man would  want to converse with his wife about interesting subjects.    A wise  man would  really appreciate having an intelligent partner to deliberate choices and strategies in life.  A pragmatic man would want a second breadwinner.

Ignore the other men.  Good riddance.

[Daveman]

Really bad advice IMO.  What "many men and women" say such?  Men who want a sex slave and maid.  Men who want a woman to remain silent.  Women who are not as smart as they think they are.

Go girl!  Don't dumb down.

A smart man would  want to converse with his wife about interesting subjects.    A wise  man would  really appreciate having an intelligent partner to deliberate choices and strategies in life.  A pragmatic man would want a second breadwinner.

Ignore the other men.  Good riddance.

Definitely agree here. I'm not overly concerned about a woman being a second breadwinner, but if she wants a career then more power to her. Intelligence, though, is an absolute must have for me as well as the conversations about about many interesting subjects. Of course sense of humor (and a little wacky at that) is another indication of higher intelligence (at least I  keep telling myself that) and a must have for me - IMO, those who laugh together live together. Doesn't mean serious people are stupid, but just throwing that out there.  Religions use the phrase 'equally yoked' often to describe people marrying those who share similar beliefs, but it should be far more pervasive than that and include a variety of levels. Certainly two people won't be carbon copies of each other, but the more 'equally yoked', the easier, deeper, FUN, adventurous, and more fulfilling the relationship is for both.

So, I think the men who are intimidated by a woman's intelligence are simply not her intellectual (or psychological) equal and thus a waste of her time anyway.

[BillyB]

I've always been a fan of Lily's intelligence and online personality. I would have no problem dating an intelligent woman like her.   Unfortunately I could not convince her to live in Vancouver B.C Canada since she's moving to Canada. She doesn't like me. 

As I write this post, I see the random quote to the left is by Lily herself in March 2007 "Beaty is in the eyes of the BEERholder.". I guess you can apply it to this thread and say with enough beer a guy will start seeing women they consider friends as lover. I knew a guy who was an alcoholic who one day woke up married to a 400lb woman. If a woman wants to catch a man and turn him into a lover, alcohol can do the trick!

[Lily]

BillyB, I remember your very first post to me when I came to RWD. It was 'Lily you are out of luck as I am already taken' I thought, 'wow, what an unbeatable self-confidence' 

I see you are with an U.S. flag over your profile. Are you in Vancouver BC with some
special Olympic assignment?

Go girl!  Don't dumb down.

 

Sure I won't  what else can I do?  :hipdude:

[BillyB]

BillyB, I remember your very first post to me when I came to RWD. It was 'Lily you are out of luck as I am already taken' I thought, 'wow, what an unbeatable self-confidence' 

Lily, you are not only beautiful, intelligent, and             (insert many, many more flattering words of your choice) but you also have a good memory!

I see you are with an U.S. flag over your profile. Are you in Vancouver BC with some
special Olympic assignment?

No but I live in the Seattle area which is just a short drive to Vancouver B.C. I've been in Vancouver B.C a few time to go to equipment auctions when the exchange rate was better. It's still not too late to change your mind and move to Vancouver.