Why try this?

[spectris]

What I've learned in the past 60 days is that this whole concept of AM looking for a SO in the FSU seems to be very viable and certainly possible if you are willing to put the appropriate amount of time and energy into it.  Specifically, it seems to offer a true alternative (if you are willing and able to travel) option for 40-50+ year old AM here to have the opportunity to date a group of 30-45 year old women that is simply not available here.  Since I am one of those men, it's very encouraging to me so far.

I also have the impression that most of the men who contribute here have very little (or maybe current or relevant would be more accurate) experience with dating AW in recent times.  I can speak with some authority that a typical 45-55 year old man (as I consider myself, albeit barely considering my recent birthday) in the US has 3 real options in dating.  WOMEN IN THEIR LATE 40's-50's - truly unlimited pool of availability (all types, shapes, sizes and personalities) who are about equally divided between total immersion in their careers, dedicated to their usually very large and very extended families or very, very lonely and borderline desperate.  WOMEN IN THEIR MID to LATE 30's (much smaller universe of course) but also pretty evenly divided by those who have small children, those who have a NEED to start a family and those who have not decided what they really want yet.  WOMEN IN THEIR EARLY TO MID 40's – again quite a large pool, but divided into more complicated categories of any of the attributes of the other age groups with the added complication of quite possibly being recently divorced after a long term marriage and in need of immediate emotional and/or financial support.  Oh, and of course the serial daters (of any age), you know - the women who want to be “out” 4-5 nights a week and are attractive and/or intelligent enough to be able to make that happen – you will find them sitting at the bar of any upscale restaurant in the country any night of the week.

I’m not intending this to be callous or flippant since there are obvious exceptions to anything, but speaking in generalities, that’s the realities of “dating” in a large metropolitan area in the US for a single man over 40 / 45 at the moment.  And btw, I cannot imagine why any AM under the age of 40 or 45 would even contemplate this option considering there is also an unlimited amount of WOMEN 25-35 that do have sincere values, traditions and intentions available locally and would love to meet you if you are what you say.  I would think 30-something AM’s looking for 20-something FSU women should be a huge “red flag” for the women, but maybe I’m missing something (I don’t’ think so though).

Admittedly my experience these first few weeks has only been w/ email, video chat, etc. so far – but I am very much looking forward to my trip in a few weeks – my initial skepticism has turned to very real optimism.

[I/O]

Experience is worth nothing. People without it have all the answers whilst people with it have few.

[Lily]

spectris, thank you very much for an insightful post.

Soon I will move to North America, supplement the dating pool and join the army of AW that you described. You outline 3 groups of women:

 3 real options in dating. 

 WOMEN IN THEIR LATE 40's-50's - truly unlimited pool of availability (all types, shapes, sizes and personalities) who are about equally divided between total immersion in their careers, dedicated to their usually very large and very extended families or very, very lonely and borderline desperate. 

WOMEN IN THEIR MID to LATE 30's (much smaller universe of course) but also pretty evenly divided by those who have small children, those who have a NEED to start a family and those who have not decided what they really want yet. 

WOMEN IN THEIR EARLY TO MID 40's – again quite a large pool, but divided into more complicated categories of any of the attributes of the other age groups with the added complication of quite possibly being recently divorced after a long term marriage and in need of immediate emotional and/or financial support.  

First, why only these categories where age is the main criterion? Why not all women irrespectively from how long ago they have been born?

Second, why the last group is distinct by such numerous complications?

[Shadow]

Are you sure that group of women is not available in the US ? From what I know there is a large group of women searching as well, provided you include all shapes and sizes.

As for younger men being a 'red flag', I see little difference in a younger man expanding his dating pool outside the local one and an older one. Both are unable to find what they look for locally, and both seem not to like what they see in their own age group.

It merely shows that neither men nor women change over time.

[cppd508]

I suppose I'll try to offer a sound opinion on the 30-something males looking to FSU women for relationships.  Since I am in my lower 30's maybe my perspective will help give some understanding.  I don't really have a set stereotype of one group of women having benefits over another group of women.  The reality is that we live in a global world now.  I'm sure debate could be had on the topic, that women, from this part of the world or that part of the world, have this or offer that; but that would require all women to fit neatly into stereotypes.  Fortunately for us men, women are individuals.  What fun would it be if all women were the same, and every husbands' wife was identical.  It would be boring.  Personally, I cannot say with certainty where I am going to find a good match, but I can say with certainty, that I'm not going to limit myself based on geography. 

[Ravens9273]

I’m not intending this to be callous or flippant since there are obvious exceptions to anything, but speaking in generalities, that’s the realities of “dating” in a large metropolitan area in the US for a single man over 40 / 45 at the moment.  And btw, I cannot imagine why any AM under the age of 40 or 45 would even contemplate this option considering there is also an unlimited amount of WOMEN 25-35 that do have sincere values, traditions and intentions available locally and would love to meet you if you are what you say.  I would think 30-something AM’s looking for 20-something FSU women should be a huge “red flag” for the women, but maybe I’m missing something (I don’t’ think so though).

Would absolutely Love for you to explain your logic here.
Would it not be more of a "red Flag" for 40, 45, 50 year old Men looking for 20 year old Women? Which is what more of the reality to Men looking is. I think that says more about a Man giving Women a reason to Run then a 30 something Men looking to meet 20 something Women.


spectris
Most of your post falls into believing in the hype. There is no better odds of of a 40-45 year old Man to marry 25,30,35 year old FSU Women as there is in the USA. FSU Women in reality are no different the AW when it comes to the ages of the Mate they are looking for. What you are fed is nothing more then Agency hype.
The difference is: That agency hype at least made Men try in the FSU where they do not try in the USA. Even with the effort many fail in the FSU and spend years looking. As the old saying goes if you try hard enough sooner or later you will succeed. The same will apply to AW as well but proabably with less effort.
If you are looking for Women in the age range you described you would have just as much of a chance of success in the USA of finding such a Women if you had the same confidence (what I mean by confidence is the false hope agencies give you can succeed in the FSU) and effort towards AW. Obviously one cannot marry an AW of similar age when they go into the market believeing they are defeated before they begin with putting no effort into trying. That is the only difference. Men go to the FSU believing the hype and that gives them confidence they can succeed. But there is no difference in the thinking of RW and AW when it comes to age. The only difference is a false sense of hope by angencies on one side giving you the impression you can succeed. How else would they get your money?

[GregfromGa]

Of course there are women in the age your looking who are readily willing and available to date men your age here in the states. It's about confidence and the way you carry yourself. If you think for one second that your going to just step off a plane in Ukraine/Russia and the younger women are going to be all over you like a rock star then you are dead wrong. Now you will have some that will certainly date you and let you buy them sushi and take them shopping.

[spectris]

Yes Greg, that was my point in fact.  There are hundreds (thousands?) of women in just my local DFW area that would date a man of “my age”.  I just don’t necessarily want to date them – for the reasons I spelled out earlier.  I was just posting for the other newbie’s like me who are lurking out there (and very skeptical like me) to say that I’m excited and optimistic that only after only a brief time exploring this FSU world, I’m already convinced there really is another potential option.  And sushi – I don’t even like sushi!

Lily (nice to meet you btw) – age is not a criteria of MY choice – it’s just reality (circumstance) and is more fostered by women than men.  Until about 45, women are just more comfortable with women their own age (similar interests, life experience, children, divorce, career, etc.) and this carries great influence over to their choice of partners and how society views them.  For example,  for a 40 yr old woman to have a relationship w/ a 38-48 year old man would be considered normal and not questioned regardless of his character, for someone older than 50 - it would require explanation and some criticism (for someone younger than 35 – she would be revered as a rock star!).  Anyway, I certainly don’t make the rules – I just understand them. 

And I apologize, I see that you post frequently but I have no idea what your age is.  If you are in your 20’s then absolutely you will be “supplementing” the dating pool and be somewhat disadvantaged unless you are spectacularly beautiful or Mensa intelligent.  If you are in your late 20’s – late 30’s you will find that you now have the very real advantage here that I believe older AM have in the FSU at the moment.  If you are late 30’s to early 40’s YOU will be the rock star here (if 45-60 year old men are acceptable to you – your choices are unlimited)!    If you are older than early 40’s you should stay where you are if love/relationship is your primary goal – you would be back to a severe disadvantage and it will worsen with each passing year.  Whatever your reason for joining us – I wish you all the best!

And “Ravens” – geez, did you even read my message?  Apparently not, so please let me explain again.  As my daughter would say, “it’s creepy” for a 50-something year old man to want to have a relationship with a 20-something year old woman in ANY country (again as a rule – I know, I know, exceptions and all) I will leave that to my 20 year old sons.  There is no shortage of single “looking” women in the US no matter what various websites might imply – trust me on this, there are far more women looking for a relationship than men in our country. 

No, my search in the FSU has been very specific (35-45, divorced, w/ teenage or older child/children, etc. – lots more, but this is not the topic).  I’ve been single for long enough to know I would rather be with someone than alone, but I don’t like the choices I have here.  And age does matter – in either direction I might add (I wouldn’t date someone older than 48-50 for example – again as a generality).  “Agency hype” should be accepted as simply that – hype.  It’s just marketing and in my brief experience, it’s been very easy to discern between fraud and reality (God bless the web and all) – easier than in the US in fact surprisingly.  I have no issue (and appreciate) a couple of the agencies – they are just online dating sites really – kind of feature-poor versions of Match.com.  I will agree with you that men who can’t successfully date here in the US won’t do much better in the FSU at least once a relationship has evolved – I mean a 30-something FSU woman that moves to America to be with a man is only 10 years away from being a 40-something AW you know?  Wonder if those “traditional values” will still be present after a decade in the suburbs?

[Lily]

  If you are in your late 20’s – late 30’s you will find that you now have the very real advantage here that I believe older AM have in the FSU at the moment. 

 If you are late 30’s to early 40’s YOU will be the rock star here (if 45-60 year old men are acceptable to you – your choices are unlimited)!    

If you are older than early 40’s you should stay where you are if love/relationship is your primary goal – you would be back to a severe disadvantage and it will worsen with each passing year.  Whatever your reason for joining us – I wish you all the best!
 

spectris, thank you very much for details! It is really very interesting to read your standpoint. Could you please elaborate on these three? Why the real advantage in group 1 compared to men who go to FSU? Other than that, why such a severe disadvantage in the last group when compared to, say, the group 2, if by your hypothetical conditions, the target group would be men of 45-60?

Also, by age, do you mean the year of birth in the ID, or something else but that? How do you define age which seems to be an issue in your posts? I never see a person with their YoB tattooed on their forehead.

[spectris]

OK Lily – I’ll take these as serious questions since I admittedly have a weakness for pretty blonde women, but…

First, I apologize about always referring to age so frequently – I would not do that in “real life”, because it wouldn’t be necessary.  I’m speaking in generalities, certainly a 40 yr old woman can pass for 30 or vice versa – I wasn’t trying to be literal. 

And I only speak of age in this forum because in “real life” you learn basic information about the other people you meet during an actual personal meeting and then get the biography if there is interest and chemistry.  Here online however, it’s the opposite – you search by age as the most basic differentiator on any dating website in my country or yours so the interest and biography come first and then you find out if there is chemistry.  You could argue for either system – but no reason to, it’s just fact.

As to your questions, from the women I’ve actually communicated with (as in spoken to) in Russia/Ukraine, they are far more educated, grounded and successful in their careers and with their children/family than their comparable sisters in the US - I only communicate with women who speak English fluently so my basis for comparison is probably skewed, however.  And certainly, there are many very successful women in America (a few work for me thankfully), but they are not routinely available for dating.  Not surprisingly, someone else noticed them years ago, so these women are typically already happily married to someone else.

So the “LATE 20 to EARLY 40” year old FSU woman is what all successful 40-60 year old AM's seek if they really want a SO – attractive, intelligent, “traditional values” (I keep reading that), and not yet sucked into carpool and the mall.  This woman does not exist in the US – so if that is who you are – enjoy!

As for AM in the FSU – surely you can answer that better?  We have the freedom and means to travel there at will – that’s a pretty big advantage right off the bat, yes?  Of course if there is no attraction and chemistry in the end it doesn’t matter, but it will certainly affords us opportunity that women in EU don’t have.  Whether the opportunity is realized is another discussion…

[Gylden]

Spectris,
Hey bud I kind of got lost on this one, can you take the time to explain it in another way?

"but it will certainly affords us opportunity that women in EU don’t have.  Whether the opportunity is realized is another discussion…"

[Handycam72]

Of course if there is no attraction and chemistry in the end it doesn’t matter, but it will certainly affords us opportunity that women in EU don’t have.  Whether the opportunity is realized is another discussion…

As with Glyden, I'm a little lost on this one. Are you talking about all of Europe now as being somewhat disadvantaged next to the US? Could you explain?

[I/O]

As for AM in the FSU – surely you can answer that better?  We have the freedom and means to travel there at will – that’s a pretty big advantage right off the bat, yes?  Of course if there is no attraction and chemistry in the end it doesn’t matter, but it will certainly affords us opportunity that women in EU don’t have.  Whether the opportunity is realized is another discussion…

I'm guessing "EU" means Eastern Europe in this instance. Regardless it's a blunder anyway because the supposition is that women/people are still locked behind the iron curtain and can't travel where and when they want. Buddy, it's a crock of crap. A few Russian girls get knocked back for tourist visas here and there from time to time but for the most part now, if they can afford it, Russians can and do travel where they want. The only "advantage" card you may have is the economic one but the growing perception in the east is that America has lost that for the moment and whether that perception is any where near accurate or not is beside the point, it's a hurdle you'll find difficult to overcome and overcome it you must to even get a start. If I am wrong and you meant European Union, then God help you if some clown has given you a passport. 

[GQBlues]

Spectris-

If you have aspirations of going to FSU to date, especially in this day and age, stop approaching this as an American male. Do yourself a favor and date the women like a Russian and not like an American. They don't split hairs and Q&As themselves to death much about anything beyond relevance.

They certainly don't make justifications why they chase skirts like all AMs do. They simply do because it comes naturally.

[cppd508]

     I don't think he meant it to be taken as Europeans are disadvantaged in a negative sort of way.  I think the point that he his trying to make, is that "Western Men" have an advantage over "FSU Women."  Meaning that we are more able to visit their home country, where as it is difficult for many FSU women to visit the country of Western men.  I also want to throw in it also does not have to imply a financial disadvantage, it can also be more difficult for the women merely due to the Customs and Immigration regulations of different Western Countries.  I do not agree with the statement, but I think that was generally the meaning he meant to convey.  

[Aloe]

when i was 18-20 i was open to the idea of marrying a guy up to 40, if he wasnt married before, didnt have children, and REALLY looked 10 years younger than his age, there are very few guys like that out there tho.

[alex330]

 And btw, I cannot imagine why any AM under the age of 40 or 45 would even contemplate this option considering there is also an unlimited amount of WOMEN 25-35 that do have sincere values, traditions and intentions available locally and would love to meet you if you are what you say.  I would think 30-something AM’s looking for 20-something FSU women should be a huge “red flag” for the women, but maybe I’m missing something (I don’t’ think so though).

You would be surprised at the quality of women a younger guy can find in the FSU ....   
Joking aside, the RW women seem much more receptive and sincere (or so it seems).
Many are looking for marriage and a more family oriented lifestyle it appears. A big rosy fake picture? Could be, we will see I guess.

You are also able to browse many women online quickly and find one you like and with similar goals and likes. The local dating online is not so good in from what I have experienced. The response is not very great and many eligible women locally do not need to search online. Not sure where you live but most women where I live in their twenties and early thirties are just starting to party and do not have the values and intentions you so mention.   

And yes, If I went out every night I would meet a great woman here of course. How many nights out and how many women would I need to talk to though? And with a demanding career who has time to go out every night?  Why can't someone look all over the world for a partner? Why not find the best match you possible can for yourself? Why limit yourself locally? The world is an international place these days and you should pursue every option available to you in your pursuit of love.

[spectris]

No offense intended Alex, it's just I don't think you shouldn't be writing off AW at your age.  It's not going to be easy or inexpensive for you to pursue this path.  Plus, it's just a lot more difficult to cultivate a relationship from 5,000 miles away - at least from what I've experinced so far (nothing bad btw, just more complicated).  I am no one to offer advice, but from my experience, a beautiful woman from any part of the world becomes "Americanized" pretty quickly - so in addition to the problems associated with that, you have the handicaps of legal status, language, etc. to deal with.  For dating, I'm sure the FSU (most all of the world for AM btw) is probably amazing - but for a SO - it's just going to be more complicated I think.

[alex330]

Hey, no offense taken
I actually do date locally and I agree with you that you should not write any group of women off. Your dream woman may live around the corner
I also feel that you should use as many resources at your dispossal to find your other half in this day and age.

Honestly I am not sure I would keep pursuing this if I had not already found someone I am interested in. I agree, it will be costly, time consumning, there will be many hurdles to overcome if we do end up liking each other. But, my foot is already in the pool and I am getting ready to jump in. At the very least I will meet some great people and experience a different culture.

[JR]

Younger men in this pursuit are in the minority.

The majority of the men are older.

The majority of those men are social misfits, unable to date sucessfully in their back yard.

The majority of all men doing this are delusional.

The two primary reasons men do this is:
1.  younger
2.  prettier

The rest is self justification for the above two reasons.

Everything is a generality.

Everyone is unique.

There are no absolutes.

It's better to fix yourself then to look for someone to fix the broken parts of you...

[alex330]

The majority of all men doing this are delusional.

I knew that last cup of Kava Kava was no good for me..... 

[jamestee007]

I'm trying this simply because foreign countries are where the girls are. I heard a statistic about 10 years ago that in my age group, there are about an extra 100,000 men in the population. Look at birth demographics and you will see this - there are slightly more male babies born over females so over a large population, you get a lot of extra men running around without dates. The same thing is a HUGE problem in China where this phenomena plus their long-standing one-child policy has led to extra millions of dateless men. I consider myself good-looking, smart and a great guy, but I never meet single, available women. If you include the vast number of cheating males who have a woman, but want more, those number increase the competition. nearly every attractive woman I have met in the US for more than 10 years is already married, engaged or dating someone seriously. Even less than attractive females get attention from men here because of the high numbers of males. And I'm not the type to fight over women. It's actually easier to travel and meet single women. On my trip to Colombia last year I met a young woman in an elevator who invited me to her birthday simply because I was American (and available). That never happens here. Go into a bar and you might find a few single women, but you also have 50 horny men chasing them. American women have become very spoiled by this attention, unwanted or not. They can be much more selective and dismissive. I'm taking a tour to Odessa next month and I would never have the opportunity to meet so many single and available women (I hope) in such a short time here in America. Plus the fact that I can meet younger and more attractive women than I can meet here makes it a no-brainer. I have no doubt that I will succeed, either in Ukraine or Colombia and it's all because of the numbers - the girls exist in the foreign countries.