Blowing the RWD Horn a Bit

[Jet]

Helen and Kvinna have been using the other board as their personal private playground for some time now. Personally I disagree with Spencer on this move as she is very, very insightful *most* of the time. She can get incredibly caustic at times too, though. (Kvinna, I could take or leave...)

One thing I will give her a lot of credit for though, is that each time she comes back, she NEVER tries to hide or disguise her identity: Helen / Helen_13 / Helen_13.1 / Hell13. Of course, to succesfully disguise yourself as someone else is futile in the end anyway, as you'd need to consistantly write in a competely different style than you ever did before and make a concerted effort to change lifelong patterns of spelling & grammer mistakes.

It's funny though,I like most of the married contributers, tend to agree with much of what Helen writes, and find her comments "spot on" most of the time. The guys who have big problems with her advice, are always the ones who are still searching, and are too busy being angry or defensive to really HEAR what she's telling them....

[Jet]

wow, Ellen got banned from a board?  Must be a board who feels threatened by her expertise, experience. Or maybe she said something negative towards a paying advertiser, or she must have said something that offended a moderator.
 
 

 

None of the above

[Admin]

Helen and Kvinna have been using the other board as their personal private playground for some time now. Personally I disagree with Spencer on this move as she is very, very insightful *most* of the time. She can get incredibly caustic at times too, though. (Kvinna, I could take or leave...)

One thing I will give her a lot of credit for though, is that each time she comes back, she NEVER tries to hide or disguise her identity: Helen / Helen_13 / Helen_13.1 / Hell13. Of course, to succesfully disguise yourself as someone else is futile in the end anyway, as you'd need to consistantly write in a competely different style than you ever did before and make a concerted effort to change lifelong patterns of spelling & grammer mistakes.

It's funny though,I like most of the married contributers, tend to agree with much of what Helen writes, and find her comments "spot on" most of the time. The guys who have big problems with her advice, are always the ones who are still searching, and are too busy being angry or defensive to really HEAR what she's telling them....

Maybe I should start a different topic on this - BUT - I wonder - why is the creation/use of multiple identities such a bad thing?

Something I learned a while back is to challenge conventional thinking. The creation and use of multiple identities is often outlawed on internet boards. Let's challenge that a bit - So What? Who cares? and What Difference Does it Make?

Yes, I know some people will play games and answer themselves - and yes, it does give the appearance of some form of scurrillous behavior - but consider the FACTS of the situation.

Each post is, or should be, taken on its own merit. If a single person is going to go to the effort of creating multiple identities, what does that really have to do with the value and content of the board and its topics?

I suppose if EVERYONE did that, and they ALL actively made use of multiple identities, it would create some uncertainty over who is really posting - but with the anonymity of an internet board - is that really a valid concern??

For instance, I have never met jet, nor jb, nor Maxx, nor Shadow, nor MandM (as only a very few examples) - yet, I believe all of them to be valuable posters. I suspect that each of them wishes to be identified with their posts. Someone who would post under multiple identities would be less concerned about being identified distinctly to their postings - but that does not necessarily make the posts, themselves any less valuable - does it?

It seems to me the biggest problem created by multiple identities is the potential diminution of the sense of 'community' one begins to gain by regular participation on a board. Candidly, I am not sure how valid that sense of community is anyway. For some, who have personally met face-to-face, it is more valid. But still, after all, this is an internet board and is both virtual and anonymous. The vast majority of board members will never meet in the 'real world' and the sense of community we gain by participating here needs to be kept in context of the medium we use.

Not so long ago - over on the P-L board - there was a regular who posted under multiple names - and announced he was doing that. It generated no problems whatsoever. Patrick was fully-aware, as was the entire board. The reason he did so, is that P-L installs cookies and if you post from a different computer, the cookies can be lost and password retention (at least for us older folk) becomes problematic, hence, the creation of multiple identities for different computers. No big deal.

So what do you think - what is the downside to multiple identities? Why should we care if someone chooses to exercise that behavior?

And BTW - Elen and Kvinna are both able to post here. I think both know they are allowed here. And yes, at times, they can be a PITA - but I have recently (prior to the RWG situation) exchanged some very nice PM's with Elen and she knows exactly how I feel about her - the positive and the negative. It has been MUCH longer since I communicated with Kvinna, but she knows how to reach me also, if she should care to.

- Dan

[KenC]

OK Dan, You have now exposed me!!  I have been posting under KenC, Photoguy and Son of Clyde!  Jeesh.

KenC

[Jack]

.......wow, Ellen got banned from a board?  Must be a board who feels threatened by her expertise, experience. Or maybe she said something negative towards a paying advertiser, or she must have said something that offended a moderator......
 
 
 ,,,,,,,None of the above,,,,,,
 
 
 jet, you must be familiar with what's going on with this situation. What Russian discussion board banned Ellen and what was the reasoning if it was none of the above.

[Bruce]

Dan, as long as the person who has multiple names is not using any or all of the names to disrupt the board, incite the board or give misinformation it actually is ok.  However, it is best if each person tries their best to keep one name because it creates a sense of security and consistency.  When Bruce or Dan or whomever posts, you usually know where they are comming from after many posts I hope.  For some of us, we never know where they are comming from, but that is ok as well. 

[jb]

I'm kinda opposed to the use of multiple ID's on the grounds of,, "what's the point?".....

In the case of a computer crash I can understand a lost password, but  to deliberately register several time for no other real purpose usually  means sneaky nefarious underhanded skullduggery is afoot, and I would  be leary of the person who was uncovered with multiple online personas.

Is't just my suspicious nature, I guess.

[Son of Clyde]

OK Dan, You have now exposed me!!  I have been posting under KenC, Photoguy and Son of Clyde!  Jeesh.

KenC

Now we know who is not on KenC's favorites list.

 A freudian slip maybe?

:?

 

[KenC]

I'm kinda opposed to the use of multiple ID's on the grounds of,, "what's the point?".....

In the case of a computer crash I can understand a lost password, but to deliberately register several time for no other real purpose usually means sneaky nefarious underhanded skullduggery is afoot, and I would be leary of the person who was uncovered with multiple online personas.

Is't just my suspicious nature, I guess.

I have to agree with you.  If one has to hide his identity, then he is up to no good.

Clyde,

It was a joke.  Come on, don't look so deep.

KenC

[Admin]

I have to agree with you. If one has to hide his identity, then he is up to no good.

But wouldn't those motives appear in the posts they write?? Why would the mere creation and use of a different ID automatically mean they are up to no good? It might - or it might not - but in any case, no-one would know until they started posting, and their 'agenda' became clear.

I guess the reason it doesn't bother me much is that I spend time on another board in which the use of multiple identities is commonplace. Yes, often it is for children to play their games on the board - but that tactic rarely works effectively.

On a board such as RWD, there seems to be a large proportion of our members who use pseudonyms - and there is little suspicion created by the use of a pseudonym. I know that on some other boards I frequent, the mere use of a pseudonym creates suspicions. On those - very professional and structured boards - only the use of an identity which clearly articulates who the poster really is, is acceptable. Here, pseudonyms seem OK - so long as there is only one. I don't know - it still strikes me as not a big issue one way or the other.

Still seeking input/thoughts from board members. Thanks to those already stating their opinions.

- Dan

[Jack]

Only have a minute, 7:40pm Kiev time, RWD 14 people on line (12 members, 2 guests) and another board 8 people (3 members, 5 guests).  Sign of things to come?

Hey jet, did you see my question to you above regarding who banned Ellen and what for?

 

[KenC]

I have to agree with you.  If one has to hide his identity, then he is up to no good.

But wouldn't those motives appear in the posts they write?? Why would the mere creation and use of a different ID automatically mean they are up to no good? It might - or it might not - but in any case, no-one would know until they started posting, and their 'agenda' became clear.

I guess the reason it doesn't bother me much is that I spend time on another board in which the use of multiple identities is commonplace. Yes, often it is for children to play their games on the board - but that tactic rarely works effectively.

On a board such as RWD, there seems to be a large proportion of our members who use pseudonyms - and there is little suspicion created by the use of a pseudonym. I know that on some other boards I frequent, the mere use of a pseudonym creates suspicions. On those - very professional and structured boards - only the use of an identity which clearly articulates who the poster really is, is acceptable. Here, pseudonyms seem OK - so long as there is only one. I don't know - it still strikes me as not a big issue one way or the other.

Still seeking input/thoughts from board members. Thanks to those already stating their opinions.

- Dan[/quote]
OK, Dan,

Let me turn this around on you.  What possible positive motivation would someone have to post under a second identity?

KenC

[Jack]

.....What possible positive motivation would someone have to post under a second identity?.....

 
 
Ken, maybe someone could be on a site and was temporarily banned and during this banishment this person wanted to reply to some threads or to offer suggestions/help. Just maybe this could be one possiable positive motivation.

[Admin]

OK, Dan,

Let me turn this around on you. What possible positive motivation would someone have to post under a second identity?

KenC

I agree Ken. It makes little sense to me. I have enough trouble keeping track of ONE. My point was - does the creation of a second (or multiple) identities necessarily mean that someone is planning to misbehave on the board?

From a purely administrative perspective - it would be a royal PITA to try to prevent it - though the board software has some pretty good alert features to help with that sort of thing.

I can think of a couple of reasons for someone to maintain multiple identities - one of them being, the separation of their commercial interests from their personal interests. For example, if there is someone who sells a service, and they want to be up-front about those posts in which they are representing their product/service - they may post with an identity that clearly describes that. Then, when they are participating as a normal member and seeking information or exchange - but want it kept separate from their commercial interest, they may want a different identity to use for that sort of post. Would you consider this skullduggery? Some might, I suppose.

It just strikes me that it really would not be THAT important. Unless, of course, they were trying to gain some sort of business advantage by disguising themselves.

Perhaps this is just my natural tendency to assume the best in others coming out. Maybe I am not being sufficiently critical or suspicious, but absent a clear danger represented by the behavior - I say - SO WHAT?

More dialogue, please. I am open-minded, but I'd like to review all sides of the issue.

Thanks again.

- Dan

[jb]

For example, if there is someone who sells a service, and they want  to be up-front about those posts in which they are representing their  product/service - they may post with an identity that clearly describes  that. Then, when they are participating as a normal member and seeking  information or exchange - but want it kept separate from their  commercial interest, they may want a different identity to use for that  sort of post.

I think that's a can of worms you don't want to open, ask Jack what happened when he did that same thing on the other board.

[KenC]

.....What possible positive motivation would someone have to post under a second identity?.....

 
 
Ken, maybe someone could be on a site and was temporarily banned and during this banishment this person wanted to reply to some threads or to offer suggestions/help. Just maybe this could be one possiable positive motivation.

Jack,

Even though the secret identity poster may have the positive motivation to be helpful, it is still underhanded to try and cercumvent the board's administration that intially banned the individual.  They were banned for a reason (justifiable or not) and afterall, it is their board to run as they see fit.

KenC

[KenC]

It just strikes me that it really would not be THAT important. Unless, of course, they were trying to gain some sort of business advantage by disguising themselves.

Perhaps this is just my natural tendency to assume the best in others coming out. Maybe I am not being sufficiently critical or suspicious, but absent a clear danger represented by the behavior - I say - SO WHAT?

More dialogue, please. I am open-minded, but I'd like to review all sides of the issue.

Thanks again.

- Dan

Dan,

As I said above, I don't know if this is a serious enough problem to worry about, but I cannot see this deception (posting under a second handle) ever being honest.

KenC

I have a double identity. And it helps.  But it is not used for deception.

[KenC]

I have a double identity. And it helps.  But it is not used for deception.

Of course it is a deception.  It is an admitted deception to hide your true identity.  As in: 

SUBTERFUGE [/i]suggests the adoption of a stratagem or the telling of a lie in order to escape guilt or to gain an end.

Your identity is not "moderator" because you choose not to share your real identity with us.  You hide behind your secrete identity to escape any possible retribution.  I personally have no problem with that, but it isn't what I would choose to do.  Many people may not like my opinions, but I damn well aint gonna hide the fact that they are mine.

KenC

[jb]

Ken,

It would only be deceptive if the moderator is also an active  participant in  other thread discussions.  As long as the person masquerading as  "Moderator" isn't also contributing opinions in thread discussion I  wouldn't have  too much of a problem with the idea of a "moderator".   However,  now that I've learned  that the moderator has a double identity, the possibility exists that  he could be agreeing or disagreeing with us while operating in another  persona, and then stepping back into the role of moderator and slapping  us down for expressing an opinion he didn't like, frankly I'd have a  big problem with that.

At least on the other board we knew who the moderators were, and when they  posted, it was for all to see and the honesty of the message was taken for  granted, i.e., they were accountable for their own words.  Now that the moderator has openly admitted he has a  double identity it makes me wonder about a few things.

[RacerX]

Honestly, if "I" were the moderator of this section, I would have deleted the "moderator's" comment as being prone to generating off-topic responses or at best, rather self-serving.  FWIW.

[Admin]

Ken,

It would only be deceptive if the moderator is also an active  participant in  other thread discussions. As long as the person masquerading as  "Moderator" isn't also contributing opinions in thread discussion I  wouldn't have  too much of a problem with the idea of a "moderator".  However,  now that I've learned  that the moderator has a double identity, the possibility exists that  he could be agreeing or disagreeing with us while operating in another  persona, and then stepping back into the role of moderator and slapping  us down for expressing an opinion he didn't like, frankly I'd have a  big problem with that.

At least on the other board we knew who the moderators were, and when they  posted, it was for all to see and the honesty of the message was taken for  granted, i.e., they were accountable for their own words. Now that the moderator has openly admitted he has a  double identity it makes me wonder about a few things.

No need to hold back jb - ask away.

In this instance, I asked for some assistance with managing the board. The person I felt could be the best at providing that assistance, had legitimate concerns over how their capacity as moderator here at RWD, might be interpreted (or MIS-interpreted) by those at other boards where this person had established respect over many months.

The simple solution was that I established one account for a Moderator, and further established some limitations on the actions which may be taken - and asked them to provide assistance. This past holiday season was a grand example of why I saw the need for this assistance, as I was barely able to look at the board for more than a week. The Moderator helped immensely by gently guiding things back on track.

I follow the actions the Moderator has taken - and I seriously doubt anyone can complain much at all about the actions taken to date.

Any other questions, please ask.

- Dan

Added:

I recently deleted my announcement about my decision to add a moderator - which followed a poll of the membership. I did, however, find the topic initiated by the Moderator introducing himself. I don't think anything at all has changed - except that we now have some significant experience, and know that the Moderator is more than fair and even-handed in the actions they take.

You can read it here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum1/746.html

FWIW

- Dan

[jb]

I didn't think I was too ambiguous in my wonderings, but since you so  ask, has the moderator ever posted on this board in the guise of  another persona?

[Admin]

I think that's a can of worms you don't want to open, ask Jack what happened when he did that same thing on the other board.

Actually, it was Richard's (Rvrwind) recent post here on RWD which made me think of this. He explained that he had gotten some flack, at one time, for not alerting everyone to the fact that he had started an agency. At that point, he began to use a 'signature' so that no-one could claim he was failing to disclose his activities as an agency owner.

I found it rather interesting that there is such sensitivity to the possibility that someone who has a business interest may post as a 'normal' person - and that, all by itself, managed to generate suspicions.

Seems to me there are quite a few people who are incredibly suspicious of others - particularly in this endeavor. I am not clear on why that is - but I am clear that it exists.

- Dan

[Admin]

I didn't think I was too ambiguous in my wonderings, but since you so  ask, has the moderator ever posted on this board in the guise of  another persona?

Sure they have. I asked them to help me with moderation duties after they had established an identity on the board - and they have been incredibly helpful and extremely fair and balanced about doing so. I explained why I chose to implement it the way I did in my previous post.

Have you any specific reason to believe there is ANYTHING inappropriate afoot jb?

- Dan