Prostitute at Elenas models

[BC]

Gavriil,

Seems to me someone interested in finding a wife would just blow right by this, decide whether or not to continue using the services an agency supplies and move on with his goal.

Seems your purpose here may be more 'scambuster' than RW seeker imho.

As you stated it happens all the time to all agencies. Nothing new at all.  If you were serious about this lady be happy she was 'up front' about her desires.

[gavriil]

Gavriil,

Seems to me someone interested in finding a wife would just blow right by this, decide whether or not to continue using the services an agency supplies and move on with his goal.

Seems your purpose here may be more 'scambuster' than RW seeker imho.

As you stated it happens all the time to all agencies. Nothing new at all.  If you were serious about this lady be happy she was 'up front' about her desires.

BC, sure, I get your point. This lady was truly honest. But she is still a scammer. I didn't ask for a big debate, I just posted her letter as a scam report. Maybe that's not the intention of this forum? Anyway, people start to jump at me, questioning my motives, so I have to explain that. And the juicy piece is that this lady is at Elena's.

She was up front with me, because I happen to be where she is right now (in St Petersburg), and I told her so in my letter. With other men who are abroad maybe she'll sing another, sweeter song first, one about love and such expendable things, writing many e-mails first which are just obstacles on the way to the guy's dollars.

[Admin]

BC, you really don't get the point, do you? Look at her profile, what is she saying there?

"Personal message My family will be an island of happiness and success ..."

She says nice words about future family, but in reality she sells prostitution. That is a scam. Just a very clearcut one, no doubts in this case! The scam is that she SAYS one thing in her profile, and DOES another thing in reality.

Yes, the normal scammers aren't so direct, they have numerous more or less sophisticated methods to free the guys from their dollars without being sincere about their intentions. But that's really theÂcase, that's how we should define a scam: A diversion between communicated intention (i.e. in this case serious relationship, marriage, family), and actual behaviour (i.e. fishing some bucks from the guys, even if it just means selling sex for the going market price).

I AM talking to Elenas models about this case, but so far they aren't doing anything, not even deactivating her profile temporarily. They just took her away from the "Featured list" so far.

Gavriil,

I think the issue is - how does one define a "scam"?

I recall a VERY beautiful young lady on a popular internet dating site who was from Moscow. In her 'advertisement' she was quite explicit about her demands, and they included the minimum amount of money she expected her suitor(s) to be earning - and it was substantial. She expressly stated her desires insofar as her suitor(s) not having children. She stated up-front the sort of lifestyle - home, car, travel and so on - she expected. All in all, she was EXTREMELY forthcoming. AND - she was exactly the same way in person as she stated in her ad - external beauty beyond what most will ever have the opportunity to get close to - and a mercenary heart that was extremely fixated on what she demanded.

Many - even most - men who communicated with her, called her a "scammer." She absolutely, positively was NOT a scammer. She merely stated her expectations - and they were beyond what most men could offer, hence, she was "out of reach" and a great many guys responded to this by labelling her someting she was not.

In this case, there is little doubt that the advertisement is explicit about what the woman is, or does. She does not hide those facts, and it is to her credit that she 'puts it all out there' so that guys may make an informed decision.

Now - the fact that Elena's models had her listed on their site - and, in fact, had her as a featured listing - calls into question Elena's models process for reviewing the character of the girls they post. It seems clear, had they reviewed this listing, they would have seen her explicit claims - and could have acted on that information. Did they? I don't know - and maybe you don't know as yet.

In any case, the woman (if it is even THAT woman who posted the listing) is NOT the one to blame here. She gets credit for being honest and forthright - if not moral in other ways. Elena's Models is the appropriate target for your dissatisfaction.

And BTW - not to justify what happened to you in any way - but it has become pretty difficult for any large agency to properly screen the girls they list on their sites. If you REALLY want to avoid this sort of occurrence, suggest you get with someone like Rvrwind (Richard) who has a small agency in Tver and knows, or has met, every woman personally.

One last comment - the moral relativity of prostitution in the FSU is a topic all to itself. I daresay that some guys would be perfectly happy with some of the woman from the FSU whom I have known that also worked, at least for a time, as what most would consider a paid "prostitute."

FWIW

- Dan

[Aleksia]

Well, maybe they are a big agency, but it does not make them

 

Code: [Select]

Elenas models are supposed to be the industry leader in terms of having clean operations and high thresholds.
 

If you would understand Russian language, you will read a lot of discussions on the Russian forums about the way of their working. If the agency or any other business has money for marketing, it does not make them the industry leader. The quantity does not always mean the quality!

[al-c]

As a current client of EM and a former client of smaller operations, I can tell you from personal experience that the smaller ops are the ones that screen better.  They ae there, with a brick and mortar presence in Russia, and the RW come to their door in person.

Elena does not even live in Russian and has not for many years.  She lives in Australia.  So she needs to do everything by remote control.  The ladies write their own profiles and submit their own pictures, just like us guys do, and when you meet, your letters are not moderated by Elena but instead are complete lazzie faire via e-mail.

So who is more likely to let a few non-husband seekers slip through the cracks?

BTW don't worry about the red flag on the e-mail link.  I got many of those with the RW I wrote to, and their e-mails worked every time.


 

[gavriil]

If you would understand Russian language, you will read a lot of discussions on the Russian forums about the way of their working. If the agency or any other business has money for marketing, it does not make them the industry leader. The quantity does not always mean the quality!

 

Aleksia, I know Russian, can you help me with some link(s) to those forums!

[gavriil]

One last comment - the moral relativity of prostitution in the FSU is a topic all to itself. I daresay that some guys would be perfectly happy with some of the woman from the FSU whom I have known that also worked, at least for a time, as what most would consider a paid "prostitute."

I don't morally judge women who use their sex for making a more or less decent living. I don't see a substantial difference between e.g. a 'travel scam' and outright sex-selling. It all boils down to women utilising the unique resource only they have, the attractivity of their sex to us men, to gain some much needed favours, to live a bit better.

Women do live very harsh lifes in FSU. I for one, wouldn't mind marrying a woman who had been into that game for some time, as long as she learnt her lessons and struggled to come out clean, knowing that she compromised her morals doing so, striving to live a decent life.

It is for God to judge us all, not other humans.

For us: Forgive and forget.

[Ste]

If you would understand Russian language, you will read a lot of discussions on the Russian forums about the way of their working. If the agency or any other business has money for marketing, it does not make them the industry leader. The quantity does not always mean the quality!

Aleksia, I know Russian, can you help me with some link(s) to those forums!
[/quote]

http://www.antidate.com is my personal favourite although my Russian is nowhere good enough to read much without getting a headache......

Ste

[Aleksia]

Antidate side.

Well, I do not like them and I will tell you why. If you will read posts on the forum - a lot of women publish pictures and personal information of the man who are "scammers" as they call them, or unserious, etc., etc. some give prove, but there are a lot of men being published there without any prove from the women's site. So, what is the difference between them and those blacklists of Russian scammers, where men are doing the same thing?

I think if the admin of any forum or blacklist decided to publish a woman or a man there, with providing his/her private address, pictures, etc. - you have to be totally sure that this information is correct and not just pay back time for rejection.

[Aleksia]

by the way, for Gavriil, about elena's models.

on antidate site they had some kind of voting about the worst dating site. or as they call it "Judaism site of 2005"

here is results:






Bride.ru






169
 
25.2%

[align=left]  [/align]

Luckylovers.net





104
 
15.5%

[align=left]  [/align]

Absoluteagency.com





95
 
14.2%

[align=left]  [/align]

Elena's Models





81
 
12.1%

[align=left]  [/align]

Freepersonals.ru





63
 
9.4%

[align=left]  [/align]

Interfriendship.de





41
 
6.1%

[align=left]  [/align]

Matchdoctor.com





27
 
4%

[align=left]  [/align]

Yahoo personals





27
 
4%

[align=left]  [/align]

A Foreign Affair





20
 
3%

[align=left]  [/align]

Holostyak.com





20
 
3%

[align=left]  [/align]

Russianny.com





13
 
1.9%

[align=left]  [/align]

Privetzapad





10
 
1.5%

[align=left]  [/align]

 

 

So, you have to have your own experience - bad or good to judge about something.

Several people can have totally different opinions about the same service provided by the agency.

[wxman]

by the way, for Gavriil, about elena's models.

on antidate site they had some kind of voting about the worst dating site. or as they call it "Judaism site of 2005"

 

Maybe I am wrong, but the way I read this, is that antidate must be a very bigoted site by equating worst dating sites with Judaism. How can they judge people, when they themselves are bigots? 

[Journeyman]

This kind of thing was the topic of a thread I started previously at:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum4/893.html

I cited a similar, but more blatant example in that instance -- where the "lady" was actually on an escort web site.  Like the one in that thread, there have been a couple of others in St. Petersburg that I have been able to spot over the last few years.  But, it's an old story.

Regarding the escort I found on Elena's Models, I too sent messages to Elena Models, and they didn't do anything (not right away, at least).  Later, however, it seems that they might have removed her profile.  But they NEVER replied to me.

I don't think one needs to ponder such profiles much anymore.  How is it that a number of extremely and strikingly beautiful, 27 to 35 year old, never-married, childless, usually poorly-educated, yet highly multi-lingual ladies are seemingly available to meet "generous" foreign men?  Jeez, I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure that out.  

Journeyman

[Turboguy]

I believe it was yesterday that I was on their site, it could have been the day before and she popped up as one of their most popular girls.

[Shadow]

by the way, for Gavriil, about elena's models.

on antidate site they had some kind of voting about the worst dating site. or as they call it "Judaism site of 2005"

 

Maybe I am wrong, but the way I read this, is that antidate must be a very bigoted site by equating worst dating sites with Judaism. How can they judge people, when they themselves are bigots? 
[/quote]
It seems something is lost in translation here. with Judaism the reference is not to 'Jewish' but to 'Judah'. For those who do not know Judah he was the one who betrayed Jesus. As such the 'Judaism site of 2005' is the most betraying site.

 

[Bruno]

The Kingdom of Judah ( Judea : capital Jerusalem ) in the times of the Hebrew Bible, was the nation formed from the territories of the tribes of Judah, Simeon, and Benjamin after the Kingdom of Israel was divided ( 800 BCE ), and was named after Judah, son of Jacob ( Israel ). The name Judah itself means Praise of God.

So, in some way, the 'judaism site of 2005' is the most recommended site by God .

Again a misconcepting of historical and cultural term who lead to a false interpretation... :cool:

[bgreed]

uh guys Judas was the one who betrayed Christ not Judah.  Judah was one of the brothers of Joseph who sold him into slavery.

[Bruno]

uh guys Judas was the one who betrayed Christ not Judah.  Judah was one of the brothers of Joseph who sold him into slavery.

The original Greek text of the New Testament makes no difference between the names " Judah", "Judas" and "Jude", rendering them all as Ioudas; but in many English translations "Judah" is used for the Old Testament figure and the tribe named after him, "Judas" is used only for Judas Iscariot, and "Jude" for all other New Testament persons of the same name until the end

So, the difference in writing is only due to english translation...

[info_man]

I  got the following letter from a woman at Elenas models, profile nr  11272, she is a prostitute. And she was on the "Featured listing"!

[size="2"]
�
[/size]
[size="2"]ID: 11272
Name: Lana
Address: Russia
191119
St. Petersburg

Lana
Email:
Url: [color="#0000ff"]http://elenasmodels.com/page.psp?.cod=11272[/color][/url][/font][/size][/font]
[size="2"]�

Dear x,
Thanks a lot for your letter and your interest to me.
I provide escort services in St.Petersburg,Moscow and also in Europe,South
America and some other parts of the world.I am a young Independent Escort
Lady,very friendly, cheerful, vivacious, and easy going! I will be glad to
be your special Date for any occasion.Whatever the occasion or date is,
formal, casual, business or just fun, refined or easy going. I speak English
fluently and have higher education.My behaviour is fresh,well-mannered;
working as an travel agent ,i regard the additional income as a simple
convinience and love erotic adventures.
Forget your everyday life, receiving nice and sensual massage and much
more....
I dress in an elegant way,my wadrobe extends from the classic to the
fashionable,from the chic to the smoulderingly seductive.
If you are looking for something a little different, some adventure and
eroticism to help you to forget your everyday cares and stress then,here I
am. Take the first step to what will be a lovely and uncomplicated time
together!
Any questions or special requests are acceptable to be under
consideration.Wishing you to have wonderful time.
Lana

__________________________________________________________________________

Could you get me her number? Just kidding...at least she is honest.

Info_man


 [/size]

[info_man]

[user=527]al-c[/user] wrote:

As  a current client of EM and a former client of smaller operations, I can  tell you from personal experience that the smaller ops are the ones  that screen better.  They ae there, with a brick and mortar  presence in Russia, and the RW come to their door in person.

Elena does not even live in Russian and has not for many years.   She lives in Australia.  So she needs to do everything by remote  control.  The ladies write their own profiles and submit their own  pictures, just like us guys do, and when you meet, your letters are not  moderated by Elena but instead are complete lazzie faire via e-mail.

So who is more likely to let a few non-husband seekers slip through the cracks?

BTW don't worry about the red flag on the e-mail link.  I got many  of those with the RW I wrote to, and their e-mails worked every time.


_________________________________________________________________


I thought she lived in South Africa












 

[gavriil]

By now Elena's models have worked on the case for more than three weeks, and still have nothing to tell me (: maybe they will just try to let it sink into oblivion. But it will not, thanks to RWD.

[ronin308]

info_man, her site states she's from Australia.

gavriil if you think anything is going to change then you're a bit niave. 

Yes, you were scammed but not by the girl.  You were scammed by the agency who makes money by selling her address. 

I'm sure she makes the agency some money for which they have to do nothing so where's the motivation to remove her?

As to her being a scammer, I don't think so, but there's no way to know either way, so you are judging her without any evidence.

The bottomline is that you've found an agency that isn't what it promotes itself to be. 

It's better than some of the agencies who "pimp" there girls out on the side as well as try to marry them off.

 

[Journeyman]

I hate to say it, but I think it is good that this kind of stuff about Elena's Models is finally coming to light -- through a variety of experiences by different men.  But it is, I'm think we could agree, probably just the tip of the growing iceberg.  Profiles of that type are, in my opinion, showing up more and more in the supposedly "legitimate" agencies and web sites, as Elena's Models had been once regarded.

I have been warned repeatedly by local gals in Ukraine about how much the landscape has changed during the past 5 years -- in term of what kinds of "ladies" are now coming to populate these agencies.  And that also goes for the changes in motivation and objectives of otherwise "sincere" ladies.  But many men just don't want to believe it.  

I will say that, since I started observing such profiles back in early 2000, the average girl (say under age 35) has become a bit prettier.  Unfortunately, there has been, in my experience, a commensurate increase in the degree of insincerity (women who have no real intention of ever marrying a foreign man and leaving their native country).  The increase in prostitutes is, again, notable.  Consequently, one needs to be much more aware of the possibilty of spending time with a woman, attempting to develop a relationship, with a woman who will ultimately never chose to leave her native land.

That is what I and my acquaintences have increasingly observed.

Journeyman

[TigerPaws]

I will say that, since I started observing such profiles back in early 2000, the average girl (say under age 35) has become a bit prettier. Unfortunately, there has been, in my experience, a commensurate increase in the degree of insincerity (women who have no real intention of ever marrying a foreign man and leaving their native country). The increase in prostitutes is, again, notable. Consequently, one needs to be much more aware of the possibilty of spending time with a woman, attempting to develop a relationship, with a woman who will ultimately never chose to leave her native land.

That is what I and my acquaintences have increasingly observed.

Journeyman

 I am going to have to agree with the statement above, things in the Ukraine and to a large extent Russia have changed considerably in the past 4 to 5 years. Many girls seem to be testing the waters now and once they discover (for the most part) the man is serious and that she would have to leave everything behind the reality of what that means sets in and she backs out. Recently a member of this board had that very thing happen to him, he traveled to Russia to meet with what seemed like an intelligent, professional (lawyer), honest lady of 30 (I think), they had been in close communication for several months as her English was pretty good. After meeting and spending some time with her, she realized this was no lark, that the gentleman was serious and even though there was the beginnings of some real chemistry between them she was not ready to leave everything behind.

 This trend seems to be growing along with many of the formerly reputable agencies looking to maximize their profits by allowing questionable listings on their data bases with ever growing frequency. Now with the MBA taking effect in March I believe this trend will continue.
 

[brothertwin]

I still see her profile available on the website (LoL)