Corrupt Police in the FSU

[LatinSwede]

Everytime I go to Odessa,  it's like the militzya pass me by like I don't even exist.  Am I lucky?  This isn't to say I won't be stopped and asked to pay a "fine" in the future.  The worst of it is going through customs and one of the police women asking "do you have presents?" I haven't been slapped with arbitrary "taxes" as of yet.  Maybe I'm not really bringing anything very fancy to begin with.  I've brought some clothing and shoes for my fiance from Hot Topic and Target.  The Militzya lady at customs asked for receipts.  I told her I didn't have any, and she just waved me on through.  One thing I won't do is bring any jewelry.  Infact I'm buying our wedding bands when I'm in her country.  It might be an issue when we leave though.

My first time in 2002, I dropped my passport and went back to the airport.  When I retrieved it and went on my way, the driver asked if I gave the officer $5.  He told me I had to or I'd have trouble when it was time to go.  So I haned the driver a $5 bill, and he took it to the cop.  Then he started smiling.  Infact my first day ever in Odessa was horrible.  By the way, don't stay at the Chernoye More.  That hotel sucks really bad.  They're a bunch of k'yobanoi suki.

The last time I was coming into Odessa, they didn't even make me open my bags coming in and out.  It's been my 4th trip.  It was like a totally different airport inside, because of the renovation.  Everything looks much nicer.  The waiting hall, where you sit before check in, still looks like a bus station.  As well there are many "taxi drivers" waiting to welcome new visitors. 

[al-c]

From my experience, things are a little different in Moscow, on the honest side to be specific.

Tle last time I boarded a plane there to NY, everybody's bags were opened and inspected, in your presence, 100%.  The man inspecting mine found a souvenir jewlery box I bought for my mother, that was in a carboard box secured with scotch tape.  Needless to say, it caused him a bit of consternation, especially being found in an Arab's suitcase.  Since he did not speak English, it took quite a bit of doing and hand motion to explain to him that he had my permission to cut the tape and inspect the pacage.

I did, however, have an encounter with the Russian Mafia, as explained to me by the cab driver who took me to the airport, when he told me that the man who flagged him for me and with whom he had to share 20% of his fare would arrange for 4 flat tires on his cab if he tried to cut the Russian Mafia out of the loop.

 

[dostogirl]

It depends, but most stories about FSU police are not very positive. When my mother and my sister were driving in a car they got hit by a police car, drunk policeman driving. No one really suffered seriously, thank God. He tried to cover his tracks. It took my mom a year to prove that it was his fault and that he was drunk. Unfortunately no criminal case was open against him, but my mom succeeded in firing him.

[Rvrwind]

You Know it just irritates me every time I read this crap!!!

All your doing by paying these a-holes are verifying your an idiot!!! The more you fools pay them the more people that will have to pay them, thanks for being a man & quaking in friggin' boots. Why didn't you just piss yourself & really show him how to deal with foreigners!!!:X

I've lived here for 3 years & been in & out of here several times. I have never paid a bribe, I have never paid a "fine", I have never let some greedy little twit rip me off. I was even thrown in jail in SPB & still refused to pay. Wasn't 2 hours & I was on the street again. Havn't you figured out that they are hoping you will cave & pay, they prefer it that way. They lock you up they have to  let you call your Embassy. Maybe your Embassy won't do a whole lot but I guarrantee you, they don't want the paperwork that goes with hassling a foreigner for no reason. Grab a clue & grow some balls.

I have been stopped drunker than a skunk by 6 cops on Novy Arbatt in Moscow & when they tried to get me to pay them I laughed in their faces. They count on you being an easy target, they count on you believing all the bullah!t so you will pay & not put up a fuss. They just love fools like you.

I own a buisness here, I don't pay no roof, what the hell is that? It ain't raining in my office. I'm gonna be surprised as hell one day when you pussies really learn how to be men & stand up to these guys because the sooner you do the sooner they will know it ain't easy anymore & it will stop happening.

Sure there is some corruption but if you stand your ground, sooner or later you find an honest guy that puts a stop to the whole parade. The day I knuckle under to a crook or a crook in cops clothing is the day I fold up my tent & go home!!!

Sorry but guys who pay these fools just make my skin crawl!!

RVR - Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner

[Admin]

You Know it just irritates me every time I read this crap!!!

All your doing by paying these a-holes are verifying your an idiot!!! The more you fools pay them the more people that will have to pay them, thanks for being a man & quaking in friggin' boots. Why didn't you just piss yourself & really show him how to deal with foreigners!!!:X

I've lived here for 3 years & been in & out of here several times. I have never paid a bribe, I have never paid a "fine", I have never let some greedy little twit rip me off. I was even thrown in jail in SPB & still refused to pay. Wasn't 2 hours & I was on the street again. Havn't you figured out that they are hoping you will cave & pay, they prefer it that way. They lock you up they have to  let you call your Embassy. Maybe your Embassy won't do a whole lot but I guarrantee you, they don't want the paperwork that goes with hassling a foreigner for no reason. Grab a clue & grow some balls.

I have been stopped drunker than a skunk by 6 cops on Novy Arbatt in Moscow & when they tried to get me to pay them I laughed in their faces. They count on you being an easy target, they count on you believing all the bullah!t so you will pay & not put up a fuss. They just love fools like you.

I own a buisness here, I don't pay no roof, what the hell is that? It ain't raining in my office. I'm gonna be surprised as hell one day when you pussies really learn how to be men & stand up to these guys because the sooner you do the sooner they will know it ain't easy anymore & it will stop happening.

Sure there is some corruption but if you stand your ground, sooner or later you find an honest guy that puts a stop to the whole parade. The day I knuckle under to a crook or a crook in cops clothing is the day I fold up my tent & go home!!!

Sorry but guys who pay these fools just make my skin crawl!!

RVR - Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner

Sheez Richard - I sure as heck wish you would SPEAK YOUR MIND next time! This Harvey Milktoast act you've got going on is getting a little old.  :seething:

- Dan :cool:

[Rvrwind]

ROTFLMFAO!!!!:)

I Know Dan, I gotta toughen up some, one day maybe, LOL.

RVR - Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner

[jb]

Harvey Milktoast

  I thought that mild mannered character's name was "Caspar Milquetoast"

[Admin]

I thought that mild mannered character's name was "Caspar Milquetoast"

Yeah probably. It predates my time. I think my parents used to comment about it - which is why I misquoted.

(Making you feel ANCIENT yet jb??)

:angel:

- Dan

[jb]

(Making you feel ANCIENT yet jb??)

Actually, no.  I remember hearing my parents talk about that comic strip, I just have that kind of memory.

[Ste]

I never saw any militsia in Chelyabinsk, other than sat in their cars (on the pavement - sidewalk in American!) to get nearer the building they wanted to go into, like cafe or produktny.....

And some loitering about on the road to the airport to trap any speeding motorists late for the flights....

Moscow was different, I got stopped by a Soldier! Begging money, cheeky sod! I actually had a guide that day to buy me tickets for the Trans-Siberian, and he got stopped!! Was funny....

Was in the metro near to Red Square, I didn't know what was happening but these two police guys stopped us, one had a dog. Kiril motioned to me to say nothing, as the two guys asked him questions. These guys were extremely short I might add, in UK you have to be over 178cms (I think) to be a copper, anyway...

I was bored as this endless babble of Russian ensued so I looked at the dog. The whole World knows how we Brits are with Dogs and this one looked really bored. No idea what breed it was, looked a bit like a labrador, certianly no Alsation as our Police use. Sat there it was, also bored.....

I know it was stupid but I started to stroke it (God, now I think back....), out of the corner of my eye, I could see Kiril motioning me imperceptively with his little finger that was screaming "DON'T TOUCH THE FRIGGING DOG!!!'

So I stopped, Kiril had all his papers out and the police guy obviously new his propiska or whatever it is was a forgery.

Policeman "Is this real?"

Kiril "Maybe....."

And that was it!

Off we went to a bar in an underground market nr Red Square drinking Redkoye and practising saying "klassnaya popka" as the ladies walked by.....

Funny really, where ever there is beer, and women, you always say "I could live here......"

As all this happened about two days before I met Nad' for the first time Im allowed to say it!

Next day train to Chel! That first 30 mins on the Trans-Siberian was fascinating, the next 33 hours was bloody boring though, you can see too many birch trees......

Ste

[Voyageur]

My then fiancee and I were stopped in Red Square this past August. We  were doing the sightseeing bit, and two young policemen saw us, guessed  that I was a tourist (even in my best black FSU clothes - maybe it was the camera?) and stopped us to look at our papers.

My papers and passport were available and in order, but my wife's  Russian passport was back at the flat.  She could not show that  she had a place to stay (as I could understand it) in Moscow. Of course  it was all bullsh!t, they were just trying to shake some money loose  from me.  It took about three minutes, but we walked away without  paying anything.  She was pretty forceful and also hates to pay  anything for these kind of police deals.

[wxman]

I never had a problem when visiting eastern Ukraine, however, it's seems the police are always shaking down their own people. If we were out late at night, riding in a taxi (not owned by the major taxi company) the taxi would always be pulled over and the driver would end up shelling out 10 to 15 grivnas. The police also like to set up check points on the highways, and they pull over the expensive cars, and also the petrol trucks. Apparently at the checkpoints, they get as much as $100 from the drivers of these petro trucks, who in turn get the money from the higher ups. Don't ever get involved, or worse, hurt in a car accident, as the police will probably not come as they would rather make money shaking people down than helping people out.

[al-c]

My then fiancee and I were stopped in Red Square this past August. We were doing the sightseeing bit, and two young policemen saw us, guessed that I was a tourist (even in my best black FSU clothes - maybe it was the camera?) and stopped us to look at our papers.

My papers and passport were available and in order, but my wife's Russian passport was back at the flat.  She could not show that she had a place to stay (as I could understand it) in Moscow. Of course it was all bullsh!t, they were just trying to shake some money loose from me.  It took about three minutes, but we walked away without paying anything.  She was pretty forceful and also hates to pay anything for these kind of police deals.

The U.S. State Department warns us to NEVER appear in a public place in any FSU country without your passport and visa on your person, and this is the reason why.

 

[Casanova]

Really RVR?  What about this article?  I won't even get into my experience, posted,  in part, on another forum topic in the Experienced section.  In fact, there are other articles I could reference too.  You are right, you DO NOT have to pay them, and they are VERY VERY reluctant to put any foreigner (particularly American) under arrest, and also to have to deal with the U.S. Embassy, though it does NOT stop them from the attempt at extortion, blackmail, and entrapment, and I know this first hand.  You make a good point about not having to pay, but how long will you be HELD before you can just simply go on your way?

March 13, 2005

[align=center]Extortion, Blackmail
and Entrapment[/align]
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[Casanova]

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[align=center]By J.R. Nyquist [/align]

[align=center]Something recently came to light during a conference at the George Bush School of Government and Public Service at Texas A&M University. According to Bill Gertz's March 6 column, "Barry Royden, a veteran CIA official, said Russian intelligence services are targeting U.S. troops in the Middle East for recruitment as agents, as well as seeking recruits among Americans in Russia." The CIA official said that Russian intelligence was using "very aggressive actions and operations," including blackmail, extortion and entrapment to turn Americans against their own government. [/align]

[align=center]Now why would the Russians engage in such activity? [/align]

[align=center]I got a note today, touching on this question, from a retired Cold War spy. My correspondent wrote: "The communist forces have reorganized themselves under new 'name tags' but their goals are still the same: to dominate the world and to destroy the enemies of their wicked ideology. I am not naïve," he added. "I don't believe in political declarations and slogans. I am trying to follow up facts of life. And these facts are more and more alarming. The foreign policy of G.W. Bush is irresponsible…. The United States are unable even to control Iraq, not to speak of the world. [The] Russians and Chinese are quietly building up a huge first strike and destruction capability, deceiving the U.S. and Europe. The scheme is emerging more and more clearly. The NATO alliance is becoming more and more weak and downgraded by the NATO members themselves." [/align]

[align=center]Worse yet, there is an economic unraveling underway. There is an unraveling of the NATO alliance, and an unraveling of our position in the Third World (especially Latin America.) On March 10 Peggy Noonan wrote an opinion piece for the Wall Street Journal that began with the statement: "Freedom may be on the march, but America is still vulnerable to attack." And that's the bottom line[/align]
 



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[Casanova]

Actually, Al-C here is exactly what the U.S. State Department says about the matter:

"Unprovoked harassment of racial minorities is not uncommon and may occasionally involve violence. Travelers are urged to exercise caution in areas frequented by "skinhead" groups and wherever large groups have gathered. Americans most at risk are those of African, South Asian, or East Asian descent, or those, who because of their complexion, are perceived to be from the Caucasus region or the Middle East. These Americans are also at risk for harassment by police authorities.

A common scam in Russia is the turkey drop, perpetrated mainly against foreigners at crowded tourist destinations, such as Red Square. Generally, two or more individuals working together attempt to lure a pedestrian into a confrontation after catching his/her attention by dropping a conspicuous wad of currency on the ground. Typically one individual accidentally drops the money on the ground in front of the pedestrian, while the second either waits for the money to be picked up by the pedestrian, or picks up the money himself and offers to split it with the pedestrian. The individual who dropped the currency generally returns around that time, aggressively accusing both his cohort and the pedestrian of stealing the money. This provokes a confrontation that may cause the pedestrian to remove their wallet to prove their innocence, generally resulting in the pedestrians money being stolen. Westerners in Moscow are frequent targets of this scam. Avoidance is the best defense. Do not get trapped into picking up the money, and walk quickly away from the scene.

It is not uncommon for foreigners in general to become victims of harassment, mistreatment and extortion by law enforcement and other officials. Police do not need to show probable cause in order to stop, question or detain individuals. If stopped, travelers should try to obtain, if safe to do so, the officers name, badge number, and patrol car number, and note where it happened, as this information assists local officials in identifying the perpetrators. Authorities are concerned about these incidents and have cooperated in investigating such cases. Travelers should report crimes to the U.S. Embassy or the nearest U.S. Consulate.

Extortion and corruption are common in the business environment. Threats of violence and acts of violence are commonly resorted to in business disputes. Organized criminal groups and sometimes local police target foreign businesses in many cities and have been known to demand protection money. Many western firms hire security services that have improved their overall security, although this is no guarantee. Small businesses are particularly vulnerable. U.S. citizens are encouraged to report all extortion attempts to the Russian authorities and to inform consular officials at the U.S. Embassy or nearest Consulate.

Travelers should be aware that certain activities that would be normal business activities in the United States and other countries are either illegal under the Russian legal code or are considered suspect by the FSB (Federal Security Service). Americans should be particularly aware of potential risks involved in any commercial activity with the Russian military-industrial complex, including research institutes, design bureaus, and production facilities or other high technology, government-related institutions. Any misunderstanding or dispute in such transactions can attract the involvement of the security services and lead to investigation or prosecution for espionage. Rules governing the treatment of information remain poorly defined. During the last several years, there have been incidents involving the arrest and/or detention of U.S. citizens. Arrested Americans have faced lengthy periods of detention -- sometimes in deplorable conditions while awaiting trial.

The U.S. Embassy receives reports almost every day of fraud committed against U.S. citizens by internet correspondents professing love and romantic interest. Typically, the Russian correspondent asks the U.S. citizen to send money or credit card information for living expenses, travel expenses, or visa costs. The anonymity of the Internet means that the U.S. citizen cannot be sure of the real name, age, marital status, nationality, or even gender of the correspondent. Several citizens report losing thousands of dollars through such scams. American citizens are advised never to send money to persons they have never met in person. See our flyer on Russia internet dating schemes" at travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_2088.html

[Rvrwind]

First of all Casanova, I am not an American, which probably explains a great deal.

My country is not continualy making life difficult for Russia & continualy critizizing Russian Politics etc. at NATO & G8. We tend to get along with everybody. Your own governments policies are what cause most of the problems American citizens encounter when travelling abroad, not the countries you visit.

Secondly Russian law is not much different than laws anywhere. They cannot hold you for more than 24 hours without charging you. Even at that a foreign citizen, unless they have a lot of undisputable evidence to prove a crime, is not going to be held that long.

Those who usually find themselves in such a predicament have done something to attract attention to themselves or have commited a crime. The only places I have ever even been asked for my documents or questioned by the police is Moscow & SPB. I have been walking the streets of Tver for 3 years & have never been stopped by a cop, ever. I was even without my Visa & passport for 2 months & never once considered it a problem.

The fact remains that there is corruption everywhere, even in the good ole' USA & to think otherwise is pretty niave. The difference is that those with an agenda, ie: Newspapers, tend to take isolated incidents & blow them totally out of proportion. You can argue with statements from politicians, read here agenda, till you are blue in the face. I live here, I live it everyday & I don't see widespread corruption & crime that others claim, at least no more than I saw in my own native Canada.

RVR-Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner

[Rvrwind]

By the way this article by J.R. Nyquist you posted is just too funny.

If you have followed the posts that I had on the other board under Noteworthy News & here under News From the Front you cannot help but find it humorous.

To start with the Russian Armed Forces are so depleted & morally incapable of launching a full scale war that to even entertain the thought of them launching a first strike is totally laughable. Not only that 90% of their hardware is non functioning & wouldn't be able to make it to the front, wherever that may be.

Also to think that they are teaming up with China is so comical as to be absurd. They are more conserned at this point in trying to stop China from taking over parts of Russia for their expansionist policy.

And from Russias point of view, NATO is the force to be wary of. They are the ones that are expanding & setting up airbases & missile bases etc right next door to us. Not the other way around. So to think this guy is telling it like it is is in my opinion total bull & he hasn't got a friggin' clue about the realities in this country.

To think Russia is capable of anything more than a small local conflict is laughable.

RVR-Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner

[Casanova]

 

RVR, it's true, American foreign policy and radical Islam, among other things, have made American's traveling abroad worldwide a risky endeavor.  However, I disagree with you on J.R.'s article in one sense:

-"Something recently came to light during a conference at the George Bush School of Government and Public Service at Texas A&M University. According to Bill Gertz's March 6 column, "Barry Royden, a veteran CIA official, said Russian intelligence services are targeting U.S. troops in the Middle East for recruitment as agents, as well as seeking recruits among Americans in Russia." The CIA official said that Russian intelligence was using "very aggressive actions and operations," including blackmail, extortion and entrapment to turn Americans against their own government." -

   So RVR, while some of your post is accurate, the following is true:  Either the above statement is true, or it's false.  In which case, you are either calling George Bush School of Government and Public Service at Texas A&M University's Bill Gertz a liar, or a veteran official of the C.I.A. Barry Royden a liar, and insinuating that the U.S. State Travel Warning and Consular sheets are false as well.  Now you are making me laugh... hard  I have not only my own experiences, but those of many expatriates and tourists living abroad or traveling here in the FSU to affirm my point.  Those of you who own agencies, or have various "interests" in agencies and providing services to tourists and men seeking marriage in the FSU may argue until you are blue in the face, the facts remain the same, and furthermore I can quote Sorcha Faal's book as to this Russian reality, and way of life, not too mention the U.S. State Travel Consulate statement on the matter.  You yourself even admit in your post that WE Americans DO get trouble from situations being abroad... the jest of your article in part being that YOU are CANADIAN  WE are American, and THAT is PART and PARCEL of the "PROBLEM" which you thus ACKNOWLEDGE, as does the American C.I.A., myself, my buddies experiences in the FSU, and the U.S. State Travel Warning or CRIME or TRAVEL AND SAFETY on RUSSIA.  Everyone knows traveling in Moscow your chances of getting stopped and frisked down are VERY inportionate to those natives actually "living" in Moscow.

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[Rvrwind]

-"Something recently came to light during a conference at the George Bush School of Government and Public Service at Texas A&M University. According to Bill Gertz's March 6 column, "Barry Royden, a veteran CIA official, said Russian intelligence services are targeting U.S. troops in the Middle East for recruitment as agents, as well as seeking recruits among Americans in Russia." The CIA official said that Russian intelligence was using "very aggressive actions and operations," including blackmail, extortion and entrapment to turn Americans against their own government." -

And of course American Inteligence is not involved in similar activities with Russian citizens. The world of espionage I will admit is a little out of my league but I assure you I am not niave enough to believe that the CIA is not involved in doing exactly the same thing to Russia.

Although I don't share my morning coffee with the spooks hereabouts I can assure you that anything Russia is doing, America is doing. Its called tit for tat & these guys in high places are good at it.

Maybe not liars but perhaps misinformed would be more appropriate. Case in refrence: Weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. How many have they found to date? None & they never will. Misinformed, manipulation, call it what you will. The CIA & other such organizations are not above lying their asses off to promote their own interests or those of those they supposedly represent. Whether they be American, Russian or Chinese, non in my opinion can be taken at face value.

You are correct in that you do have to be careful to a certain extent when traveling abroad. But to say that Russia is ripe with crime is a total fallacy. My house & buisness were broken into & robbed more times in my last two years in Canada than during anytime previously. I have lived & worked in Russia for going on three years now & have never been robbed, accosted or had my apartment broken into or my buisness. I feel safer walking the streets here at 4am than I did in Edmonton, Alberta, a city of the same population but far more ripe with crime & criminals in IMHO.

RVR-Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner[/size][/font]