Month Off?

[spectris]

Serious qustion - as 'm just curious.  WHO really has a month to take off from work?  I've only know retired men, very wealthy men, men who can work w/ just a web connection or unemployed men who had this amount of time to spend so long away from home.  I have European friends who take August off, and I have a couple of Asian friends who take off about a month around CNY, but I'm very curious to know who has the time to vacation for 4 weeks to see their girlfreind (seriously - I'm obviously doing something wrong)!  And what woman has so much time to spend w/ you if they are employed and/or have children?  Maybe the FSU employers are far more lax than their American counterparts (I tell my employees that if I can live w/o for3 weeks than maybe I can live w/o for...   )? 

[Gylden]

Spectris,
FWIW, This endeavor is a major life changing event, I personally don't think it is something you can squeeze into vacation time. It requires time and money, so you need to be a little creative about both.
You are right though about vacations being different in Europe, here in Norway we get 5 weeks every year and in France the standard is 7 weeks.

[Ade]

Spectris,
FWIW, This endeavor is a major life changing event, I personally don't think it is something you can squeeze into vacation time. It requires time and money, so you need to be a little creative about both.
You are right though about vacations being different in Europe, here in Norway we get 5 weeks every year and in France the standard is 7 weeks.

And that 5 weeks doesn't include national holidays like Christmas/Boxing day or extra days given by some companies - mine, for instance, gives an extra week at Christmas and Easter. I think my yearly total is closer to 8 weeks plus whatever flex time I build up.

The first year I was dating my now wife I had almost 3 months of vacation time to play with and most of it was spent with her (that's excluding the months that she spent here in Norway while I worked). Those Yankees that go over and date a girl for a week or two before starting a K1 are really pushing long odds for a successful K1 I think... You really should spend considerably more time than one years worth of American vacation time with someone before you decide to marry them.

[Gylden]

If you find that it is not easy to take more time off, maybe it is better to have the woman apply for a tourist visa and for her to visit the US. I know it has been almost impossible before for women to get this visa, but it seems as though it is getting easier now. There are huge benefits as well, because she would have an opportunity to see how things are in reality.
This is why I myself had never even been to Ukraine until after I was married for almost 5 years.
I think a big part of culture shock comes from the imagination of the woman, not ever being in the US and thinking about what it will be like, instead of getting the opportunity to experience it, meet your friends, see you in your/ her potential environment. Anyway you get the idea.
I hope the recent success we have seen in regard to tourist visas signal a change.
 

[ECOCKS]

Nothing against the OP but I am always surprised at how many view the time issue.

I remember the logic of why you shouldn't hesitate to spend $2000-3000 on a mattress and foundation set. You spend 1/3 of your life in bed. Next to your home and car, maybe a vacation/retirement location and possibly a boat, what other one-time personal expenditures will you get recurring use of in your life?

It's the same way with a spouse. Speaking for myself, I knew I was in a new phase of life and a big concern was that I was without a partner. I thought about how things were going in my geographic comfort zone and then decided to move around a bit. So, off to Europe and nosing around for a new work line and opportunity. While I didn't go to get a wife, I expected I'd date and eventually remarry somewhere along the line. It was an adventure and I don't regret it. Yes, yes, I know, you have a job, a career, an investment in your business, your friends, your children, blah, blah, blah, the list goes on.

However, how fulfilling is your life right now? You're looking for a new life partner so you apparently feel some need or absence of some sort. How long will you spend with an empty spot in your heart, your bed, your life? What will the future be like if you don't find a partner that is right for you? Is the job, career, house you own, whatever your perceived limitation, worth being alone when the day comes to retire.

It's a cliche' I know, but how many people on their death bed or even in their "golden years" say they wish they had worked harder, passed up more dates, not traveled to new places, etc.?

It's all about how much you want this when you are deciding which limits are real and which are just self-imposed.

[GregfromGa]

Again I'd just like to say that this process isn't for everyone. To be done right a person will consume much time and it's not cheap. Now that's not to say there haven't been guys that spent a week with their brides and they get married and live happily ever after. Again, it's certainly not for everyone for a number of reasons.

[SMS60]

I wouldn't even consider(want) to take a month off. I enjoy going in circles too much.

[Chicagoguy]

  Re: Month Off?
« Reply #3 on: Today at 01:39:48 AM » Quote  

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If you find that it is not easy to take more time off, maybe it is better to have the woman apply for a tourist visa and for her to visit the US. I know it has been almost impossible before for women to get this visa, but it seems as though it is getting easier now. There are huge benefits as well, because she would have an opportunity to see how things are in reality.
This is why I myself had never even been to Ukraine until after I was married for almost 5 years.
I think a big part of culture shock comes from the imagination of the woman, not ever being in the US and thinking about what it will be like, instead of getting the opportunity to experience it, meet your friends, see you in your/ her potential environment. Anyway you get the idea.
I hope the recent success we have seen in regard to tourist visas signal a change.
  
Glyden,
Sorry friends I do not know to make the blue colored box thing.

Your idea for the woman to spend some time here is right on the mark. It would be the best answer for many rerasons. It was almost impossible for Russian women to get visas in the past. If this is truly changing now I think maybe we should have a new thread with some current stories or information. Maybe even some instructions or other ideas.

Meeting in another country does offer new perspectives but is not the same as coming to view her new possible home.

[Jack]

In this thread, and in superbb's thread "What are the odd's?",  I have seen it written that it is easier now for Russian/Ukraine women to get a tourist visa.


I would like to offer my 2 cents, and of course opinion only, in hopes that some men reading this do not put a lot of hope in their lady getting this tourist visa to America.

I have not seen any difference in the approval of young, single Russian/Ukraine women being granted a tourist visa to America.  Week after week I am still seeing rejections from men who thought they would be the exception, the one in twenty, or the 5% figure we see floating about, that I think is still a high figure.

Russian women over 30 and with a child are probably in the one in twenty, or maybe even one in fifthteen, but single Russian/Ukraine ladies in there twenties being able to get a tourist visa to America,.....at best, the very best, 5%.  If those odd's are good enough for you then my all means proceed.

[groovlstk]

I have a pretty liberal vacation plan for an American but like most career people it's difficult to take more than 2 weeks off at a time.

-Be creative, bracket your vacations around the usual 3-day holiday weekends so that you don't burn up as many days.
-Make sure your trips coincide w/vacation time for the woman you visit so that you're using your time fruitfully and not sitting in an apartment all day waiting for her to get off work.
-Meet in closer locales. (I wouldn't recommend this for a first meeting.)

I used every vacation day, holiday, or personal day available when I was courting my wife. It worked out for me but since then I haven't felt much of an urge to do anything with my days off besides sit on a beach somewhere   

[Gylden]

Last year there were 115, 807 non immigrant visas issued to Russians and 3,833 immigrant visas.

Ukraine had 41,509 non immigrant visas and 1,894 immigrant visas.

[Jack]

Gylden, how many of those were tourist visas for Ukraine/Russian ladies in there 20's?

[Gylden]

Total number of non immigrant visas for all of Europe have not changed since 2004.

Number of non immigrant visas for both Ukraine and Russia have doubled since 2004.

Unfortunately Jack I haven't found any information about whether they are for blonds, brunettes, or if they are even women, but these stats show a trend and as we all know those ladies are a part of this and IMO maybe a larger part.

[Jack]

Gylden, the American goverment does not allow but a very few single, young blonde, brunette, red head Russian/Ukraine women into America on tourist visas.  The explanation I was given for this by BCIS, prior to Homeland security, was due to the high percentage of young Ukraine and Russian women who got married on tourist visas to the US and thus ended up staying in the states.

Women over thirty, women with children, women who owned a flat or business, the goverment felt had a higher percentage of these women were returing home, thus from a percentage point of view, these type women had a much higher chance of getting a tourist visa to America.

[Gylden]

Do they give this information out? Or are you just pals with someone there? I am really curious to get some facts, so if you can point me in a direction to get the facts, I would appreciate it.

Thanks Jack
 

[Dave13]

" I tell my employees that if I can live w/o for 3 weeks than maybe I can live w/o for... " Maybe its time for a union!    You need to give yourself at least two weeks for your first visit, it's crazy to just fly over and spend a few days, you should realize this can be the greatest journey of your life!

Dave

[JR]

My first trip to Russia back in 93/94 was for a month. I planned it for over Christmas/New Years so that I'd get an extra 2 or 3 days off with pay. I used all my vacation and took a couple days off unpaid. The trip total with travel was 24 days and some hours.

Now with every vacation I take I add one to two days off without pay to stretch my vacation time. I think I am getting 2 1/2 weeks a year. I have a little less than 400 hours of banked time but I am trying to save that as a cushion in case of an unplanned period of unemployment.

Taking additional time off without pay is just another part of the expense of this journey. But really, if there is good reason for you to go then what you will lose in a few days pay isn't much considering the overall cost of what it will take to make another trip. Do what you can to stretch your time, it pays in the end.

[Gylden]

OK I found statistics for the year 2007. In all non immigrant visa applications from all lands there were 19,510 final rejections for Failure to establish entitlement to nonimmigrant status. It doesn't seem too many considering it is for all lands.


Good advice JR, anything you can do to extend time with your lady is just plain smart!

[Jack]

Do they give this information out? Or are you just pals with someone there?

Gylden, it was just an employee of the BCIS, not anyone I knew.  When you can get these guys on the phone some can be a wealth of information, some can be real ass's.
 

[Jumper]

Spectris

Who can get 4 weeks off?
I agree not all ,but more than you'd guess?

as example: I have 14 weeks of vacation and comp time built up
(possibly more , i havnt checked the books),  obviously i cant take it all at once..
 but i earn 5 to 6 weeks vaca per year *minimum*.

and can easily take 3 or  4 weeks at once..
if my employeer felt as you , that if i take  a month off i'm not needed or of value,
Then even in this economy i'd tell them plainly "see you,good luck " , and give 14 weeks notice,  starting my vacation (and they would certianly understand and expect that exact responce)
  I understand not all work schedules are this flexible ,but for example i can work 5 , 6 day weeks for the week off comp time if i choose. When I
am out of town I often work 2 or 3 weeks straight, so i get back with 4 to 6  days of comp time minimum.
 
So I'm sure others out there can  manage their work situations similarly (while others cant! ,but you asked who could?)

 I am not  a teacher , but would think that many in the educational fields could string 3 ,or possibly 4 weeks together easily.

Most RW can get a few weeks off if planned ahead of time ,and yes Europe and the FSU have much more vacation time in general.



All this said , i never took more than 3 weeks  at a time when dating my *ex*..
but i did make multiple trips ,and also was working off and on in Europe so could pop over for even weekends "sometimes", we dated about 1 year before marraige.Not as much face time as standard dating but plenty that we knew each other ,and there were no surprises at all.

Anyone planning this venture should be prepared to take  all their vacatin sand then some,,
including  any leave of absences if they can.

The dating period is hardly the real time contraint issue anyway,
as once she arrives you will probably need to have a more flexible schedule and time off intially at the *least*

There are a lot of realities to face in this venture ,, actually having the time to date someone across an ocean and a culture ,as wel las handling the logistics of visa s ,immigaration abnd getting them settled into  a life here , are just some of them.


Jack has probably seen guys do this with all kinds of time ,
as well as those with only one weeks vacation ..!!
(actually i'm think Jack has seen just about every scenario out there! has a ton on info as well as entertaining stories I am sure)

have you noticed any correlation to long term  success Jack?



off topic but are you planning to throw your own hat back in the ring anytime soon?

[boaterguy]

The beauty of being self-employed! I took 4 trips to see my wife in a 8 month period. 1st visit was 3 weeks...month home,2nd visit for 1 month,6 weeks home,third visit for 1 month,6 weeks home,last visit for 2 months and flew back to the states with my fiance!

The last trip became 2 months because I couldn't get a flight for the time around her interview. I was 6 weeks out looking for a flight in the middle of June. My travel agent asked if I could go earlier...so she started moving backwards looking for an available seat. This was the 1st of May and we had just been approved for her interview...knew it would be the end of June give or take a week. Well...the only available seat was the next week! Talk about flying by the seat of your pants...I was on that plane and fortunately had a multiple entry business visa!

I am very lucky to have the flexibility. To me the most expensive and taxing part of the trip was the traveling...so why not make the best of it!

[Turboguy]

You need to give yourself at least two weeks for your first visit, it's crazy to just fly over and spend a few days, you should realize this can be the greatest journey of your life!

Dave

You are braver than me Daveman.  What happens when you make that two week trip for a first visit and find within hours that you have absolutely no chemistry, or she starts shopping for $ 400.00 shoes and $ 2000.00 coats before you even get your bags unpacked, or she can't give you much time because her boyfriend wants to spend time with her or lots of other possible probelms.

If I had limited vacation time I would make take 2 personal days and go over a 3 day weekend so I could spend 4 days with her and then if it all worked out well go back for a two week visit a month or two later if you hit it off. 

If you have two weeks vacation a year and blow it on the wrong woman you are done for a year.

There are ways to stretch times.   Making some trips over holiday weekends is one.   You could take your two week vacations in two halfs.   Take one week of your vacation the week before a 3 day weekend.   Leave late Friday, come back in time for work and you have 9-10 days together and can do that twice.  It would almost be like having an extra weeks vacation.

[Faux Pas]

Serious qustion - as 'm just curious.  WHO really has a month to take off from work?  I've only know retired men, very wealthy men, men who can work w/ just a web connection or unemployed men who had this amount of time to spend so long away from home.  I have European friends who take August off, and I have a couple of Asian friends who take off about a month around CNY, but I'm very curious to know who has the time to vacation for 4 weeks to see their girlfreind (seriously - I'm obviously doing something wrong)!  And what woman has so much time to spend w/ you if they are employed and/or have children?  Maybe the FSU employers are far more lax than their American counterparts (I tell my employees that if I can live w/o for3 weeks than maybe I can live w/o for...   )? 

Obviously, you and I are the exception to the majority of the posters. Before my first trip to Russia I rarely ever used most of my 6 weeks of paid vacation. I was lucky to actually have 2 weeks a year in the last 15 years even though I had 6. My company doesn't roll over any paid time, use it or lose it kind of thing.

For myself and those that work for me, being away from work for a month without it being medical, illness or other excused unpaid time off, just isn't going to happen. Even while I am on vacation I am still available and to a degree still working. I have to be. The nature of my job demands it. I insist my employees not be bothered while on vacation.

With that said it should also be noted that I can only take vacation for a week or two weeks during certain times of a given month. I could actually take off this time every month, but my job would fail. It simply isn't possible for me to do. I am the only person in my particular realm that can actually do my job. It is that way by design and that design is not mine, just the job is. It's the responsibility I freely accept. But it does not allow me to be gone for a month at a time at any point during the year. FWIW

[ECOCKS]

OK I found statistics for the year 2007. In all non immigrant visa applications from all lands there were 19,510 final rejections for Failure to establish entitlement to nonimmigrant status. It doesn't seem too many considering it is for all lands.


Good advice JR, anything you can do to extend time with your lady is just plain smart!

Gylden:

Looking at this table, I suspect you read the 2007 Table wrong. The number you picked up was the number of rejections which were OVERCOME. There appear to be over 1.5M rejected visa applications for Non-Immigrants in 2008 alone.

XX.Immigrant and Nonimmigrant Visa Ineligibilities FY-08 (by Grounds for Refusal)

http://www.travel.state.gov/pdf/FY08-AR-TableXX.pdf

The footnotes indicate that one person can be rejected multiple times but you can see there are also a variety of causes other than Failure to establish entitlement. There are a lot of categories covering all sorts of issues beside the Entitlement, notably Failure to comply with regulations, misrepresentation, prior overstays, etc.

The US Embassy site in Kyiv states that they approve approximately 70% of the visa applications received there. This percentage is most probably much lower for tourist visas received from younger, single, unemployed, female applicants. Likewise it is probably much higher for requests from business people, married applicants, older, etc.

Those contemplating the attempt at the tourist visa route need to be honest with themselves and how their "friend" will be seen in light of the following statement from the consular services FAQ in response to how they view an applicant for a non-immigrant visa.

From ACS, Kyiv:

"Each day we schedule 200 to 300 nonimmigrant visa appointments. Even with 200-300 interviews per day, the wait time for an appointment is currently about one month. As you can see, we must keep each interview short and to the point. The visa application and the applicant’s passport provide a consular officer with a tremendous amount of information that the consular officer reviews before the applicant reaches the interview window. With their signature, visa applicants affirm, in writing, that information provided on the visa application is true, so consular officers rarely need to review this information verbally. Often, consular officers believe that information provided by applicants during the interview is correct unless the information is suspect or inconsistent with other information provided. Supporting documents are normally reviewed only in order to clarify answers from applicants, and are normally not themselves the basis for a visa decision. The information provided by the applicant is more important than how long it took the interviewing officer to collect the information.

Although limited resources make it impossible to conduct lengthy interviews, consular officers are trained to evaluate each application on its own merits and to consider professional, social, cultural and other factors. No specific documents prove an applicant’s ties to Ukraine; nor will a specific document guarantee visa issuance. This includes letters or affidavits from relatives or friends who may promise that an applicant will abide by the terms of the visa or "guarantee" an applicant’s return to Ukraine. There is no practical provision under U.S. law that allows consular officers to accept such promises, and therefore these types of letters have no positive influence on the outcome of a visa interview. The burden of proof is placed solely upon the applicants to prove that they are qualified for the type of visa for which they are applying. Each case is decided on its own merits.

When I talk about "evaluating a case on its own merits" that means that an American consular officer must judge each application in the context of U.S. law - namely, the U.S. Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) of 1952, as amended. At each interview the officer is primarily looking at three factors:

1) the purpose of travel (does it make sense; is there a plan);

2) the finances of the trip (who will pay; is the benefit derived from the trip in line with the cost - international travel is expensive!); and,

3) most importantly, does the applicant have compelling reasons to return to Ukraine after a temporary, lawful visit in the United States.

Whereas most applicants focus on items one and two (presenting compelling reasons to travel to the United States and showing evidence about how the travel and lodging costs will be provided), they often fail to present sufficient information regarding what will compel them to return home. This calls into question Section 214(b) of the INA, which is the most common basis for refusal.

Section 214(b) of the INA stipulates that every applicant "shall be presumed to be an immigrant until he or she establishes to the satisfaction of the consular officer, at the time of application for a visa . . . that he or she is entitled to a nonimmigrant status under section 101(a)(15)." Section 101(a)(15) states that a nonimmigrant is "an alien having a residence in a foreign country which he or she has no intention of abandoning and who is visiting the United States temporarily" for a variety of purposes which the law delineates (business, pleasure, studies, etc.).

Unlike many other countries, the United States does not impose internal controls on most visitors, such as registration with local authorities. In order to enjoy the privilege of travel in the United States, aliens have a responsibility to prove they are going to return to their own country before a visitor visa is issued. Our immigration law requires consular officers to view every visa applicant as an intending immigrant until the applicant proves otherwise."

http://kyiv.usembassy.gov/visa_ask001_eng.html

No matter how many times you hear someone else got one or how angry you are at the process, this is reality.

[Gylden]

Ecocks,
I stopped posting on this subject on this thread, as I didn't want to get so far off topic. I know about the OVERCOME visas, and I didn't include visa rejections for example for "draft dodgers" or other similar type of refusals, because those obviously don't apply to single women.
What I have been told by officials, is that visas don't get rejected by age/gender alone. Many try to "trick" the process by assuming that, and invent some "non truth" and those interviewers are trained to recognise this and then the process is doomed.
I realise this is not good news for commercial guys organising tour (or at least on the surface), so I can understand the resistance to see this.