married and divorced...

[fred3]

Question for those who married a russian girl and are now divorced
Would you try again with a russian woman? Travel to Russia, visit marriage agencies,...

I have never been married to a RW, but I have been there, and had a relationship, did not marry her, right now is the perfect time for me to travel for a month or two, I am free but I just dont have the desire anymore to travel there,... its not interesting to me anymore at all, maybe because now I dont think RW are much different than women here,...

[BillyB]

Question for those who married a russian girl and are now divorced
Would you try again with a russian woman? Travel to Russia, visit marriage agencies,...

I would marry a RW again. I would travel to the FSU if I found an exceptional women who I felt had genuine interest in me based on her commitment to quality correspondence with me. I've never used a marriage agency and I never will. It's not for me but I recognize there are good agencies out there and it's a suitable model since there provide services unlike dating site for some people to find their happiness.

Even RM in the States still want to find RW. One RW told me that some RM will offer to fly a RW across country to NY in his first message to her so they could meet. She tells me some of those guys are motivated to find a RW because RW are more likely to put up with their BS staying in the relationship longer praying and wishing her man will change. In her opinion, RW stands by her man and are more tolerant of a man's bad behavior than her Western sisters.

[Daveman]

...
Even RM in the States still want to find RW. One RW told me that some RM will offer to fly a RW across country to NY in his first message to her so they could meet. She tells me some of those guys are motivated to find a RW because RW are more likely to put up with their BS staying in the relationship longer praying and wishing her man will change. In her opinion, RW stands by her man and are more tolerant of a man's bad behavior than her Western sisters.

Well, I'be been analyzing this for about 4 years now.  I  would say that you are half correct.. a RW stands by her RM and is more tolerant  of his less than stellar behavior.  I'd say more often than not, AM are considered weak and easy pickins to be taken for a ride, dumped, and then forgotten to go in search of the RM with her new spoils of war. 

Again, we are talking generalizations here, but there is little to no doubt in my mind that as a general population of women, AW will stand by AM, and RW will stand by RM... but the long term cross cultural deal is more of a fluke/exception than anything else. 

My opinion is not really jaded, because I do believe there are exceptions to the norm, but I also am pretty sure they really are indeed exceptions rather than the norm.

I guess in its simplest most "natural" form, AW and AM understand each other - their mating games, psychology, etc, and RW/RM understand each other. 

Once the dopamine high subsides, you are left with understanding and respect as the foundation for long term love to grow.... think about that.. very few RW really understand/respect AM, regardless of what they might say.  I think there may be exceptions on this forum, but in the general population and in most cases, that RW will naturally gravitate to those of like mind.. Russian friends, and Russian men. 

One day I will probably take the time to really do a proper dissertation on this topic, but I really just don't have the free time at the moment.   Agree or not, it really makes little difference to me... but all I'll say to anyone in this pursuit is the same thing I've said before... take the time to know your partner... don't rationalize way anything that give you a weird feeling in your gut... and understand that if you DO find an honest to god life partner this way, you are the exception rather than the norm.

I think anyone CAN be an exception, but most guys pluck the wrong fruit from the tree, for all the wrong reasons and wind up with poison.

[Shadow]

Most certainly. However I might use a different tactic.  :evil:

[kievstar]

Billy very few RM would fly a RW all over the USA for a first date.  Sometimes best to not believe everything you hear.

It is true in the last three cities I have lived in there is a huge population of Russian and Ukrainians who prefer there children to marry from their home country and frown on RW and RM who marry outside home country.  This is not a small number either.  I saw the same thing in Detroit with Arabs as well.  This is typical to try to keep the Russian or Ukrainian heritage intact.  But once you get third generation living in the USA you will see this die out.  Past 30 years was start of a huge population of Russians into America which has slowed past 10 years.  Right now you have the children being brought up in America but once the grand children start expect the families to become more diverse. 

My wife meets a couple of new RW / RM each month that frown on her being with an American man when there are many good RM in America.  I told my wife not the best quality of RM / RW came to America during the 1980's and best to stay clear of them.  Many were corrupt and lied / paid there way into the country.

[Daveman]

. 
...
My wife meets a couple of new RW / RM each month that frown on her being with an American man when there are many good RM in America.  I told my wife not the best quality of RM / RW came to America during the 1980's and best to stay clear of them.  Many were corrupt and lied / paid there way into the country.

And therein lies one of my most basic and controversial observations.  RW, I'd say at least in large numbers, respect this behavior... lying, cheating, stealing to get ahead is just the status quo and normal modus operandi, some consciously and some not.  The results are more important than the path. This is one of the hurdles of 'misunderstanding' we face.  We might amass a fortune over time through sound decisions, whatever, but that playground bully who steals lunch money accomplishes the goal of a better life quicker.  I didn't dream this up. This comes directly from the mouths of RW, friends of ladies I've dated bragging on what their husbands/boyfriends have done. Ladies I've dated telling me stories of events, etc.  Some things have been rather jaw dropping. Are these RW in the majority? I have no idea, but they *seem* to be in my small sampling of the overall RW population.  They seem like Angels, but that's a freaking dream brother. Again, we need to find the exceptional FSUW...

Of course I'm not denying that we have bad people with goofy values and such in the west, or trying to turn this into an "us vs. them" but what I am saying is that this is a foundational cultural difference that needs to be understood by anyone who wants to find a real life partner from the FSU.

I think the trick is finding a woman who truly values your intellect... values character, perseverance and inner strength above immediate results and instant gratification...  common sense, eh? Yeah right...

And that's all I'm gonna write on the topic. Believe it or not, that's up to the reader.  It has definitely made me much more aware of pitfalls that I was very lucky to miss in the early phases of this pursuit.  They all look like angels don't they? 

[BillyB]

Billy very few RM would fly a RW all over the USA for a first date.  Sometimes best to not believe everything you hear.

I guess two of the RW I know are lairs. Thanks for the heads up.  I don't have to hear it to understand some of these ladies get all kinds of invitations for whatever.

Before meeting me, one actually accepted an invitation and went to Boston from the West Coast. I guess that was a lie too? I didn't ask her if the man she met was Russian/Ukrainian but those are the dominant males that use the site she's on.

If a RM is lonely, desperate and has money, he isn't much different than the wealthy, lonely, desperate American male and it is very believable he will to anything to get a woman flown to his doorsteps.

[Gator]

And therein lies one of my most basic and controversial observations.  RW, I'd say at least in large numbers, respect this behavior... lying, cheating, stealing to get ahead is just the status quo and normal modus operandi, some consciously and some not. 

This is true.  The point you failed to mention is that a RW who respects this behavior will quite possibly behave the same.

That is why if you find a RW who seems above this, even though it is chronic in the FSU culture, you have indeed found a gem.

[Gator]

fred3,

My uncontested divorce will conclude soon.  I am communicating with two former RW girlfriends and a few new ones.  The question remains in my mind whether RW are worth the trouble. 

Marriage is far from my mind.  I state this early in the communications, and upon realizing this fact RW have dropped me like a hot potato.  A surprising few wish to continue.

My plan is to stay diversified.  AW are not so bad (for a weekend).

[Misha]

One RW told me that some RM will offer to fly a RW across country to NY in his first message to her so they could meet.

Offering to do something and actually carrying through with it are two very different things. Why would any Russian in New York offer to fly any RW to New York when all he has to do is go down to Brighton Beach or pretty much anywhere in the city and meet Russians  :evil:

In her opinion, RW stands by her man and are more tolerant of a man's bad behavior than her Western sisters.

Sure, in Russia or elsewhere in the FSU. Give her enough time to integrate in her new home, and all bets are off IMHO.

[Misha]

Before meeting me, one actually accepted an invitation and went to Boston from the West Coast. I guess that was a lie too?

Perhaps. We don't know the woman in question, so how can we judge either way 

[Misha]

This comes directly from the mouths of RW, friends of ladies I've dated bragging on what their husbands/boyfriends have done. Ladies I've dated telling me stories of events, etc.  Some things have been rather jaw dropping.

As the saying goes, birds of a feather flock together. If you meet a woman who bragged about the misdeeds that former husbands/boyfriends did, then my advice is to run. There are too many good and decent RW to waste your time on such women IMHO.

[Daveman]

As the saying goes, birds of a feather flock together. If you meet a woman who bragged about the misdeeds that former husbands/boyfriends did, then my advice is to run. There are too many good and decent RW to waste your time on such women IMHO.

I don't necessarily disagree with this statement, especially the "run" part.  I'm just not sure about the "too many" part.  "Good and decent" is relative. There's active participation, passive acceptance, and even the 'birds of a feather' analogy concerning a "decent" woman hanging around not so decent friends. Though I think you'd be hard pressed to find an RW who also has all pristine family/friends.  It's just a very different place with different rules and different norms with varying levels of acceptance of these norms.  That's why I call the ladies we look for "exceptional"... I think they really are.

[Misha]

Though I think you'd be hard pressed to find an RW who also has all pristine family/friends.  It's just a very different place with different rules and different norms with varying levels of acceptance of these norms.

Dave, I have been going to Russia for some 15 odd years, you don't have to lecture me on the differences. However, in my experience, most RW are decent, hard-working women. Based on what I read in forums, it seems that too many foreigners looking for a Russian bride have a knack for finding the type of women that should make them run 

[Daveman]

Dave, I have been going to Russia for some 15 odd years, you don't have to lecture me on the differences. However, in my experience, most RW are decent, hard-working women. It seems that foreigners looking for a Russian bride have a knack for finding the type of women that should make them run 

No lecture intended, Misha, however this is a discussion forum with others not so experienced as yourself reading along.  And the inevitable rhetorical questions follow... how many of these hard working decent women play the system in one form or another through necessity and how does this affect them as it relates to compatibility with the west?  Where is the line drawn?
Certainly it's all about individual people, but individual people are indeed products of their surroundings and unconscious programming.  Agreed about what the foreigners seem to find, and perhaps that's related to the mentality/mindset of those most likely to join foreign specific dating sites from both sides of the pond. 

I've been surprised on more than a few occasions to find myself thinking "and you think this is acceptable?", even with some of the kindest, most decent, friendliest relatives who treated me like a treasure...  and it's been related to more of a mindset, or value system, or something that I'm not really comfortable with any label which comes to mind of "this is how it is" as opposed to some nefarious plan of criminality.  While I haven't really had a bad experience with any of this, my eyes have just become more and more open to tangential experiences. 

[I/O]

In her opinion, RW stands by her man and are more tolerant of a man's bad behavior than her Western sisters.

Does she own a marriage agency? In all of my involvement with Russians I've seen no evidence to support this. Don't kid yourself it is only Russian Men who initiate divorce.

[BC]

And therein lies one of my most basic and controversial observations.  RW, I'd say at least in large numbers, respect this behavior... lying, cheating, stealing to get ahead is just the status quo and normal modus operandi, some consciously and some not.

This is true.  The point you failed to mention is that a RW who respects this behavior will quite possibly behave the same.

That is why if you find a RW who seems above this, even though it is chronic in the FSU culture, you have indeed found a gem.

But don't forget....

AM never, ever lie, cheat, steal, or god forbid get drunk.. They make the most wonderful, secure, patient, supportive husbands on the planet!

Underneath it all, many AM seem to be looking for RW for the very same reasons RM in the US do.

The OP submits that RW are not that different than AW based on his experience.  One might find that a good many RW, once they hit their new turf, find that AM aren't that different than RM.

[kievstar]

Gator, why do you want to be married?  Do you want more children?  You want to hang around the house?  You seem to like to play golf alot and hang out with your buddies.  Enjoy being a bachelor.  You can still date RW periodically.  When you get married you lose freedom.  Marriage is a partnership.  You already have grown children. 

[kievstar]

BillyB, I think those RW tell you about flying across the country as a hint to you to take them on vacation.  Women can be very tricky to get men jealous and get what they want.  Your not hanging out with serious women.  Your hanging out with women wanting to have fun with you. 

The number of women you have met puts you ahead of Wilt Chamberlain. 

[Misha]

Agreed about what the foreigners seem to find, and perhaps that's related to the mentality/mindset of those most likely to join foreign specific dating sites from both sides of the pond. 

That is the point to remember before generalizing behaviors observed to all RW. The fact of the matter is that only the tiniest proportion of Russian women ever join agencies. Most RW are married or looking to marry a Russian man and work hard to pay bills and get on with life. They are not looking for opportunities to steal, scam, or take advantage of others.

[BillyB]

Why would any Russian in New York offer to fly any RW to New York when all he has to do is go down to Brighton Beach or pretty much anywhere in the city and meet Russians  :evil:

Why do you an others go overseas when there are women in your town? Why do you and others go overseas when there are plenty of RW in your country and/or a nearby city such as Chicago or NY? When men see a pretty photo, rational thinking goes out the window.

BillyB, I think those RW tell you about flying across the country as a hint to you to take them on vacation.  Women can be very tricky to get men jealous and get what they want.  Your not hanging out with serious women.  Your hanging out with women wanting to have fun with you. 

You an Misha seem to care about my welfare a lot. Thank you. The women who told me men offered them trips have known me for quite some time. When they first went out with me, they did not tell me this. Only after we bacame friends, they tell me more about how other men interact with them on the internet. If after 4-6 months of friendship they dump me because I never offered them a vacation, so what? They will be doing me a favor.

[Misha]

Why do you an others go overseas when there are women in your town? Why do you and others go overseas when there are plenty of RW in your country and/or a nearby city such as Chicago or NY?

Because they know they don't stand a chance with these women that they would like to date and think that they will be able to date women overseas that they would not be capable of dating back home  :evil: However, this does not apply to a RM trying to date RW in the United States whether they are in L.A. or Boston or anywhere else. If he can't date a hot woman from New York, he won't be able to date a hot woman from elsewhere simply by flying her to him 

[groovlstk]

Why do you an others go overseas when there are women in your town? Why do you and others go overseas when there are plenty of RW in your country and/or a nearby city such as Chicago or NY?

Pretty simple: because without an economic advantage and shiny blue passport, most of these guys would have to date within their league - which means the RW living locally wouldn't give them the time of day.

[Misha]

You an Misha seem to care about my welfare a lot. Thank you. The women who told me men offered them trips have known me for quite some time. When they first went out with me, they did not tell me this. Only after we bacame friends, they tell me more about how other men interact with them on the internet. If after 4-6 months of friendship they dump me because I never offered them a vacation, so what? They will be doing me a favor.

Simply trying to understand what exactly you are trying to say Billy. Though, I have to say that you seem to have a much different definition of friendship than I have. Why would the thought of a friend dumping you even cross your mind  ??? 

[Gator]

Gator, why do you want to be married?  Do you want more children?  You want to hang around the house?  You seem to like to play golf alot and hang out with your buddies.  Enjoy being a bachelor.  You can still date RW periodically.  When you get married you lose freedom.  Marriage is a partnership.  You already have grown children.

Great question!  The answer is that now I don't want to marry.

How about two years ago before I married my soon to be ex-wife from Moscow?

You repeat the same questions that my friends, especially my best friends, asked me then.   

My answer then is that I am a family man.  I do like a cozy home.  All my friends my age have grandchildren; I have none and my sons are far from even considering marriage.  My 30-yo son dates only for sex.

So I married grandchildren!  Unfortunately the mama that came with them had lost much of her interest in family activities that first attracted me to her.  She changed and wanted to accomplish something other than mothering (part of the syndrome of some RW having children too young - their first baby is their last doll). 


My bold experiment is over.  My hypothesis was wrong, and I knew that in the first year.  I hung on for another 6 months and then realized it was futile.  The problem was not the children because they are a joy.

My contacts with RW since then are enough to remind me of the trouble they could cause to my established life.  As I said, most discard me early.  The few that stay around remind me of how sweet and dedicated (or desperate) some can be.  Yet with that comes something else -  the one I met in the DR is now in full rage jealousy.