Greece and others????

[55North]

Slight off Topic warning.

Thank heavens.  A fair, balanced and informed discussion on a subject that really agitates some internet commentators in our area of social relations.
 
Believe it or not, there are commentators with Ukrainian UW interests who are beside themselves with anger that the (EU/Euro/Europe/Germans) didn't (sort out/take into membership/spend anymore serious time and money on) Ukraine, before the Blue Meanies took over and started selling the family silver to Russia. 
 
That the EU is a major trading partner with Russia is an apparent crime of monstrous proportions, and we should be prepared to invade soon.  Of course, the EU couldn't fight itself out of a paper bag, but that's our secret weapon.   

[kievstar]

One thing to keep in mind is that not all companies and / or countries go into the economic crisis at the same time. All do not recover at the same time.  2 years ago many people predicted that USA would be hit harder than Western Europe but USA would recover faster than Western Europe.  Western Europe would be struggling for 5 -10 years or more to get back.  Seems that is what is taking place except for the Obama negative impact.

EU zone's peoples attitude is not much different than what is going on in the USA.  There is a lot of hate among the different countries / states.  The 2012 USA president election is going to be interesting. Less than 20% of the USA people think the country is headed in the right direction.  Question is headed and not current state. 

[Shadow]

Shadow,


  Before you just pop up and say "WRONG"...lol.


   The money used for some members of the EU is the EURO right? Some members don't use it right?  Great Britain is a good example of not using the Euro if I'm correct here?


   Maybe I did not explain exactly what I meant in regards to federal system?


   All the EU countries for the most part are independent right?


   Maybe up until now due to problems the EU based monetary system is not like the US system right?


   Is there an oversight law or set of actual laws that requires each Euro using country to spend a certain way? If this is true then why does each country have freedom to be independent?


   We know all the answers to these questions but the one big question and possibly the big answer is that each independent country shares a currencey but they do not share laws that would in effect each country in a law bound manner. This group of countries shares the Euro but Greece has shown the oversight or law bridge is lacking????????


Makkin

Instead of a federal system the EU uses a democratic system.
There is a central European Bank for those countries who are part of the Eurozone, and countries are having rules. However due to the recent crisis countries like Grees who used creative means to stay within the rules got exposed.
Currently talks will mean a stricter set of rules for any country.

As for the GBP, correct it is not in the Eurozone. When the Euro was introduced 1.00 Euro was worth 1.5 GBP, current exchange is 1.00 Euro for 1.16 GBP. Europeans are happy not to have to support the GBP as much as British were to keep their currency.

[Gator]

I read more about this issue, and it seems to me what is happening in Europe will happen here unless America backs away from its recent strides towards liberalism.

          -  Growth of government
          -  High tax rates
          -  The need for an ever smaller working population to fund an ever growing pension policy
          -  Imbalance among states (Germany does not want to pay for Greece's lax policies; likewise Nebraska does not want to pay for California's lax policies).
         -   Appeasement of a growing immigrant population
         -   Loss of manufacturing jobs to Asia, et al

So Europe is the canary in the mine. 

I don't understand how RWD Europeans are not alarmed, suggesting that they believe everything will be dandy.  Then again, I am not an Eurologist. 

[55North]

I don't understand how RWD Europeans are not alarmed, suggesting that they believe everything will be dandy.  Then again, I am not an Eurologist. 

Easy.  That's because, deep down in our 'waters', we know that we'll drag the rest of you down with us!
 
Call it WW3 if you like, for letting Wall Street corrupt us these last 20 years.     

[Makkin]

55 North,


   Britain is in a good position actually to drag down Europe because it owns companies world-wide. The pound has been used to buy cheap and magnatize other countries for many many years. If and when a problem occurs with the pound it won't drag anyone down per say except Britain but that's another story.


   Since England is the size of the state of Louisiana it makes sense that many folks moved to Australia,Canada,New Zealand and many other places like California. No room on the island of England anymore and no place to make laws other than the island right? As long as the pound stay afloat it's all good but recently the trend looks weak and the pound is falling due to the Euro and the parabolic connection. What shall be the next move for Britain as things get more and more interesting?

[kievstar]

England allows a very lenient tax carryforward of losses (more than the USA).  So many companies in England will not be paying taxes for a longtime as they can carry forward the huge losses from 2008.

Several USA based companies have board agreement if Obama got too crazy (he was going to eliminate tax loss carryforward) to relocate and incorporate in London and switch stock exchanges.  Were talking fortune 500 companies not small companies.  This impacts New York Stock exchange and tax revenues for USA. 

London is very friendly for business.  GBP is a very good currency.  London really is the financial center of Europe just like New York is for South and North America.

[Shadow]

I read more about this issue, and it seems to me what is happening in Europe will happen here unless America backs away from its recent strides towards liberalism.

          -  Growth of government
          -  High tax rates
          -  The need for an ever smaller working population to fund an ever growing pension policy
          -  Imbalance among states (Germany does not want to pay for Greece's lax policies; likewise Nebraska does not want to pay for California's lax policies).
         -   Appeasement of a growing immigrant population
         -   Loss of manufacturing jobs to Asia, et al

So Europe is the canary in the mine. 

I don't understand how RWD Europeans are not alarmed, suggesting that they believe everything will be dandy.  Then again, I am not an Eurologist. 

- Governments have been downsizing for decades here.
- Taxes are actually lowered in the 'richer'  states to level out those in 'poorer' ones. Besides Europe has had high taxes for half a century..
- Solution has been import of work force who pay pensions but might not collect them.
- Imbalance is what keeps things healthy.
- Immigrants from outside EU are slowly replaces by migration inside the EU, which can be kept up through expansion taking some lesser states in, thus keeping the imbalance present.
- Loss of manufacturing jobs is similar. By taking in poorer states the EU can slowly raise a protective barrier and get manufacturing costs on equal level.

In the short run there are problems. But after taking Russia in to the EU, and combining the Euro with the BRIC currency, most problems will be solved. 

[Makkin]

  Most problems will be solved..lol. I agree but solved in a way that drops the holiday pay as well as all the other perks. Those days are over but will the people accept this solution? I have to admit though Europe looks really dandy for the long term but the next 120 days will see the EURO drop and with that drop it will forse other countries to bail.....bail on the EURO.

[Shadow]

  Most problems will be solved..lol. I agree but solved in a way that drops the holiday pay as well as all the other perks. Those days are over but will the people accept this solution? I have to admit though Europe looks really dandy for the long term but the next 120 days will see the EURO drop and with that drop it will forse other countries to bail.....bail on the EURO.

Not exactly. Instead of the US people will enjoy holidays in cheaper locations, and buy cheaper products leaving the market wide open in the near future, while European products will become affordable for markets like the US and Russia, thus giving export new chances.
A drop of the Euro has many benefits for the inner market and for export, its the import that may suffer. As for the solutions I hope that some governments will have the guts to take long-term decisions, though I doubt that looking at most current politics. An Euro spent wisely may return more profit as an Euro save foolishly.

[Gator]

I have to admit though Europe looks really dandy for the long term but the next 120 days will see the EURO drop and with that drop it will forse other countries to bail.....bail on the EURO.

The opinion I hear on the Street is that the Euro will soon bounce up dramatically due to a short squeeze.  However, technicians predict that the Euro will be at 99-120 by the end of the year, presumably near 115. 

That is the opinion this week.  Next week, who knows?!

Those days are over but will the people accept this solution?

What is the alternative?  Well one.....all major countries around the globe agree to monetize their debt at the same time (government issues massive number of new bonds, central bank buys them, and the new currency placed in circulation).  Those holding US bonds (e. g., China) will suffer losses.  Those holding gold will win big.  George Soros is buying gold.

[Shadow]

What is the alternative?  Well one.....all major countries around the globe agree to monetize their debt at the same time (government issues massive number of new bonds, central bank buys them, and the new currency placed in circulation).  Those holding US bonds (e. g., China) will suffer losses.  Those holding gold will win big.  George Soros is buying gold.

If the whole world would decite to monetize all debts at once, Russia and China would come out very big, with the US and many Euro countries getting close to Africa. Somehow I think this will not happen.