Teachings of Tashkent....

[JR]

Recently went to Tashkent to meet a woman. Long story short is that it didn't work out. The details are her if you're interested: http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=11415.0

This is what I learned from the trip. I learned that I still have some learning to do)))

Things went south when the sister in law of the lady in question was informed by a third party that the contents of my trip were here on this forum. When next I spoke on the phone with the sister in law she told me about being aware of this forum and that it contained the details of my trip. I defended myself by saying that I said nothing wrong or bad, which I had not. Even though I heard in her voice that the betrayal came in the form of posting anything at all I refused to recognize and address this as the issue. Instead I drove my point home by promising to and actually having the contents of the thread translated and sent to her. Of course this didn't help at all as it failed to address the central issue.

So I owe the family an apology. Which I will do.

What is to be learned is that you say in public can come back to haunt you. And even though there may be only one or two people on the face of the Earth who could connect the dots it can happen. I was thinking to myself this sort of thing couldn't possible happen again. WRONG, the last few days I was found by another lady from England who I thought I was beginning a correspondence with until she found....you guessed it, this forum. She had some rather nasty things to say which I thought were/are rather silly and petty but played along because it was funny. However when she started attacking my three year old child I lost my sense of humor. I may post that episode here as a warning to others, haven't decided yet.

These two events remind me of a Steven King story titled "Sometimes They Come Back." The storyline goes like this: Be careful when summoning a demon to do your dirty work, sometimes they come back.....for you.

[Blues Fairy]

There's also a saying, "People who hold sincerity in contempt are not the kind of people whose contempt is likely to be of any consequence to me." 

Just keep swimmin'...

[BillyB]

What is to be learned is that you say in public can come back to haunt you.

I'm very aware of this too and it really doesn't affect me. I speak of everyone in my life as an anonymous person. Only my ex fiancee's Name and photos are here and I told her I'd be putting them on the internet.

If people weren't allowed to speak of their experiences with FSU women, good or bad, this place would be dead if all we talked about is the buildings and museums we seen in the FSU. There's a lot to be learned here and I'm sure we saved untold thousands of dollars by keeping men away from scam woman and agencies.

You didn't say anything bad about the woman you went to visit in Tashkent. Some posters insisted she and her family were insincere and they probably got upset about that. I think if they really cared about you JR as a person, they would not be so upset and cut you off so quickly but defend their actions and reassure you that the lady you went to visit has sincere intentions. I'm not amused by people who have quick tempers, low tolerance, and have the inability to forgive.

[kievstar]

Would agree about things haunting you on internet.  My wife hates I post here. She likes things kept private.  

[Misha]

I was found by another lady from England who I thought I was beginning a correspondence with until she found....you guessed it, this forum.

I am curious, how did she find you? I was thinking that she googled your email address, but it is hidden.

[dogspot]

JR,

Have you ever thought about removing your photo from your profile? I think abbreviating your screen name was a good move, but if someone who knows you goes browsing and sees your photo they are automatically going to know it's you and be able to read all of your 1998 posts (not that there is anything bad written). But still, I think it's a good idea to make yourself as anonymous as possible when writing TRs and discussing experiences on a public forum. I know I have made some mistakes by posting a few details that I shouldn't have. This is why I hide behind the much more handsome face of Sharikov.

[Misha]

I see how she found you now: you have the same profile name on POF as you do/did here. Googling the profile name, I get your POF profile and the thread to the trip report you and Dave wrote (the "long" version of your profile name is in the title of the thread). Best to use different profile names on different sites IMHO, or at the very least different profile names on different categories of sites.

[BillyB]

I see how she found you now: you have the same profile name on POF as you do/did here.

If a lady finds JR's postings here and goes into a frenzy, she's got more to worry about than a guy like JR.... unless JR has some sex tourist stories elsewhere.

It's everybody's right to have a past life and I don't care if a woman had past boyfriends. I will evaluate how she acts with me at this moment. That's what matters.

[Faux Pas]

JR other than going to  Tashkent on a wing and a prayer I didn't see/read anything you "did wrong". I stated in that thread somewhere IMO, you were being used. That was my first reaction when I started reading it and it remained unchanged as the thread grew and you provided more details. If the SIL felt she and the family were insulted or abused on the forum, why didn't she make a post to that effect? There wasn't anything "I" read from you that was offensive to her or the family and I read her later words and actions to you as just more of her and your RW's insincerity. Good riddance to old rubbish and be thankful you found out the real them sooner than later

[Miri22]

Imagine how many others there must be reading these posts.. The Internet has made the world a significantly smaller place. Six degrees of seperation has become two?

[groovlstk]

This is a major issue now that internet access has proliferated throughout much of the FSU, and it will come up again and again.

FWIW, you can be 100% truthful, you can avoid writing about anything unpleasant, you can keep photos from your trip private, etc., but bottom line is that many women see this as "kiss and tell."

All the reasoning in the world isn't going to get you anywhere, particularly during the early days of a relationship (such as in the wake of a first trip) when both the man and woman are more likely to jump ship at a major disagreement or misunderstanding.

Bottom line is that you don't have to do something "wrong" to torpedo your relationship, just the perception of it can be enough. So if you're going to write a TR make sure you cover your tracks.

It also smacks of sour grapes to claim that JR is better off without her, as if her reaction to all this is somehow indicative of bad character, etc. (And I'm saying this purely in the context of her family discovering his TR, everything else about this situation aside.)


 

[Blues Fairy]

It also smacks of sour grapes to claim that JR is better off without her, as if her reaction to all this is somehow indicative of bad character, etc.

People are usually the most reactive when they feel guilty, and that's IMHO what we saw in the family's reaction to the TR.  A nice victim stance to protect themselves.  It's not indicative of a bad character, just of inability to cope with their feelings of guilt in a dignified way. 

[BillyB]

People are usually the most reactive when they feel guilty, and that's IMHO what we saw in the family's reaction to the TR.  A nice victim stance to protect themselves.  It's not indicative of a bad character, just of inability to cope with their feelings of guilt in a dignified way. 

It's one thing if JR gave them nothing but I suspect JR was a gentleman in their presence, gave them gifts, bought them dinner and of course gave them money.

Groove, if someone did all that for you and then did something that you didn't like, wouldn't you give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not doing it to hurt you or maybe it's a misunderstanding and that you may be overeacting or would you just bail on them and keep the money?

JR has gone out of his way to apologize and explain. He gave them money and yet he's the one on his knees to gain their acceptance and trying to prove he's a good guy.

[Miri22]

Perhaps it's as simple (or as complicated) as feelings of betrayal?
Each betrayal begins with trust.

[Ade]

Perhaps it's as simple (or as complicated) as feelings of betrayal?
Each betrayal begins with trust.

Yes, I think it's as simple as that but some, perhaps most here, just cannot understand this simple concept and I find it sad and just a little contemptible that they sneer at those who feel this way.

[groovlstk]

Groove, if someone did all that for you and then did something that you didn't like, wouldn't you give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not doing it to hurt you or maybe it's a misunderstanding and that you may be overeacting or would you just bail on them and keep the money?

Don't ask me. Ask JR's girl and her family. Ask the women who used another forum to disparage TooTallBill, etc. That's where your answer(s) lie.

Everyone seems hellbent on convincing themselves that there is nothing wrong with kiss & tell, yet this situation is happening with greater frequency and it's not being addressed properly. Bill got plenty of reassuring pats on the back from people (including me) who insisted he did nothing wrong, as did JR. Yet both wasted expensive trips and have nothing to show for it but bruises.

I have my own opinions about JR's trip and all I'll say is I believe he's much better off without this girl and her family, but that's a separate issue.

[Faux Pas]

Don't ask me. Ask JR's girl and her family. Ask the women who used another forum to disparage TooTallBill, etc. That's where your answer(s) lie.

Everyone seems hellbent on convincing themselves that there is nothing wrong with kiss & tell, yet this situation is happening with greater frequency and it's not being addressed properly. Bill got plenty of reassuring pats on the back from people (including me) who insisted he did nothing wrong, as did JR. Yet both wasted expensive trips and have nothing to show for it but bruises.

I have my own opinions about JR's trip and all I'll say is I believe he's much better off without this girl and her family, but that's a separate issue.

I agree with you that it is happening with much more frequency than in the past but, JR's instance wasn't a kiss and tell. He never even got to meet the girl which IMO, is another sham/scam all to it's self. He posted nothing but compliments about the mystery girl's family. What was there to offend? Whatever it was, I missed it. If SIL chooses to hold JR accountable for what others posted IMO, she is wrong there too. This situation is far from the norm.

There is also likely untold number of times where women out of curiosity do a search, find this forum, find a picture and description of themselves along with a guy they had a date with and are not offended. For whatever reason choose not to take issue with it. If one sides with some of the more liberal members at RWD, we should not post anymore TRs or photos for the only reason, that someone might get offended. Thats throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Maybe I jumped the gun when inferring that the girl is a skank, should have refrained and left my opinion to myself. But my opinion is still unchanged.

[GQBlues]

JR’s experience happened to me and that was back in ’04 when I wrote my TR, Moscow: My Twilight Zone, so this isn’t anything new. I didn’t say anything on the TR that didn’t happen yet despite of it, it didn’t change the color of distaste with this particular person involved. In a lot of ways I understood the underpinnings of the person’s concern and ultimately asked Spencer to remove my TR completely.

This concern shouldn’t be isolated to this type of experience either. The fact is, even folks you actually meet online on message boards are people, for the most, you absolutely do not know. It doesn’t matter how they appear online and how well you believe you already *know* them as a person. I made a mistake of being ‘trusting’ before and actually opened myself up and started sharing some personal information I should not have. Lesson learned. I am not saying folks in general should not be trusted, I am saying proper discretion is always called for.

To exemplify the point, it wasn’t too long ago a certain member boasted or threatened another member here about divulging whatever personal information  that member felt was damaging to another. Why people do this, or have an appetite for such, is beyond me BUT they do and they will. The devil lurks in unexpected places. Even now, people boast about different ways on how to invade and/or intrude into other people’s life and privacy. It’s almost like a drug, or an addiction.

Besides, there's better than a good chance the only thing in common you'll have with that person is the interest with women from the FSU and likely nothing more....So I agree with Kievstar’s wife. Keep things personal as personal as you can possibly keep them.

A member once ask if we can meet in person for a drink or two, knowing what I’ve come to know and experienced before, and with respect to the offer, I just felt it simply isn’t something I really want to do anymore.

Just be careful.

[kievstar]

I would recommend to posters if there worried about people tracking them down do not post pictures of themselves or others and use different name and city where they live.

For example use a name no where near your name (i.e. kievstar) and if you live in New York city say you live in Los Angeles.

there are really only two English message boards dealing with RW and marriage so not hard for someone to find out. But with no photo or names makes it much more difficult for someone who really wants to investigate.

JR did nothing wrong based on American culture.  But obviously to the sister she was pissed.

[Gator]

Regarding the overall theme of JR's thread, I say it is best to change names, not use photos, blur if not delete details, etc.  RWD readers do not need hard facts to be able to comment in a supportive or constructive manner.

There is enough that can be misunderstood by the RW without giving them documented exhibits.  And once there is a misunderstanding with a RW, it is very difficult to reach a friendly peace.

Facts and photos and locations add credibility to a story,  yet being considered credible is not the goal.  JR's story would have been the same if he wrote he went to Siberia.

[Gator]

I have my own opinions about JR's trip and all I'll say is I believe he's much better off without this girl and her family, but that's a separate issue.

A separate but not unrelated issue because it supports Blues Fairy's point: 

"People who hold sincerity in contempt are not the kind of people whose contempt is likely to be of any consequence to me." 

JR, you are a stand-up guy who unlike a number of RM is doing his best to be a good father to his young daughter.  IMO the Tashkent woman and her family are not worthy of you.  Nor is the woman in England if she indeed attacked your 3-yo.   

A question.  You are good looking, charming, etc.  Why are you flying all the way to Tashkent to wait at some woman's door hoping she will see you for a few hours????  That part really bewilders me.  I read your responses to this same question in your other thread, and it still perplexes me.

[Shadow]

MrsShadow did read my trip reports in 2006, long after I wrote them, and while already living with me at the time.
She found nothing in there that was untrue, or even worrying to her. Even the stories of my past trips (which are available here as well) did not contain anything that upset her or made her reconsider anything she knew from me.

There for there is nothing to tell except the truth, and if people can not handle the truth you should be happy to discover it in a realitve early stage.

[SANDRO43]

A question.  You are good looking, charming, etc.  Why are you flying all the way to Tashkent to wait at some woman's door hoping she will see you for a few hours????  That part really bewilders me.  I read your responses to this same question in your other thread, and it still perplexes me.

Wild guess: a non-refundable airline ticket ?

[CanadaMan]

Ah phewy, I was hoping for something more in the league of the Kamasutra, the Book of Job or the Works of Maimonides. That sort of thing... 

[tim 360]

A separate but not unrelated issue because it supports Blues Fairy's point:  

JR, you are a stand-up guy who unlike a number of RM is doing his best to be a good father to his young daughter.  IMO the Tashkent woman and her family are not worthy of you.  Nor is the woman in England if she indeed attacked your 3-yo.  

A question.  You are good looking, charming, etc.  Why are you flying all the way to Tashkent to wait at some woman's door hoping she will see you for a few hours????  That part really bewilders me.  I read your responses to this same question in your other thread, and it still perplexes me.

JR, I did not read anything in your trip report that I thought was negative or insulting toward the girl (who disappeared) or her family.  The posting of some photos of the family while you were ALL having a good time seems innocent enough to me and I don't think a level-headed person could construe that as some personal insult.

Now the woman in England--well that whole thing is bewildering at best.  Maybe you are attracted to the wrong women?

I do agree with Blues, Faux and Groov--something is strange about your Tashkent girl and family.

I gotta echo Gators' above view, your Tashkent modus operandi, to fly to Tashkent to see a girl for one day (maybe) best case scenario... is not thinking clearly.  What do you think?  I think that was a bit too impulsive or desperate, but I've heard of stranger things.

Anyway,  it is good you are rid of this Tashkent girl and her family.  I can't think of one good reason for them to be mad at you,  unless I missed something.

I'm not sure who the blabla was?  But I did Google your trip report thinking the keywords would lead me here but after 15 pages I had nada.  Someone eiher had to put in some effort or they had been reading rwd.