The 10 Commandments---Age Difference

[Simoni]

"How are "women at the coffee shop"  more real than "women in groups"?"

Doll-- you are pulling the wrong definition of "real."

The way I'm using the word to describe women you meet in natural environments means -- not artificial, fraudulent, or illusory.  That is why I called them real.

These green card girls are not real because they are not like the vast majority of sincere, good hearted, good-willed RW.

[SFandEE]

most of all don't don't get seriously involved with any woman who isn't absolutely crazy about you.

That seems to be the key wisdom that I am realizing.  i do not have that yet.  I hope that cultural differences won't get in the way of this being clear when/if that time comes.

I do love many of the stereotypical qualities in EE women and although it is not a goal, it would be nice to find that crazy chemistry.  Hopefully the discussions that we have on this board will help sort through the details.

[Doll]

"How are "women at the coffee shop"  more real than "women in groups"?"

Doll-- you are pulling the wrong definition of "real."

The way I'm using the word to describe women you meet in natural environments means -- not artificial, fraudulent, or illusory.  That is why I called them real.

These green card girls are not real because they are not like the vast majority of sincere, good hearted, good-willed RW.

You're funny. I did understand what you meant by "real" but the women "online" are same as in "real" life. They are not virtual at all.
How do you know the RW "online" are GCG? Or how do you know the one in the park is not?
You're funny.

[Doll]

I do love many of the stereotypical qualities in EE women

Which are?

[Doll]

"It is better if your wife..." Are you, guys, going to tell her what is "better"?
So, she found the RW forum but you have your preferences for her? Or what?
 

[groovlstk]

That seems to be the key wisdom that I am realizing.  i do not have that yet.  I hope that cultural differences won't get in the way of this being clear when/if that time comes.

I've heard other guys who married RW say this before, even if I can only speak from my own experience, but you'd have to be in a coma not to know it if/when it happens.

A lot of the horror stories you read about here started out w/the man falling for an indifferent woman.

[SFandEE]

Which are?

I was worried about writing that--I know by definition stereotypes are just that.

The qualities that I have found in most of the women that I have met from EE are forthcoming, family oriented, nurturing, sexy, value education, value culture, and care about how they present themselves physically.  

Please don't make me regret too much my positive "fantasies", because I will rescind if you insist that having stereotypes like these are ill advised.

[Doll]

I was worried about writing that--I know by definition stereotypes are just that.

The qualities that I have found in most of the women that I have met from EE are forthcoming, family oriented, nurturing, sexy, value education, value culture, and care about how they present themselves physically.  

Please don't make me regret too much my positive "fantasies", because I will rescind if you insist that having stereotypes like these are ill advised.

They are not but by now I've met thousands AW who are all above. All above and much more- they are much more positive in their families, very sweet with their husbands, not so stubborn as RW. Also, don't forget the mentality- AW are much closer.
These are my 8 year observations.

[Daveman]

They are not but by now I've met thousands AW who are all above. All above and much more- they are much more positive in their families, very sweet with their husbands, not so stubborn as RW. Also, don't forget the mentality- AW are much closer.
These are my 8 year observations.

Yep. That they are. They just don't speak English with a Russian accent... if only AW would master that little nuance of language... 

I was worried about writing that--I know by definition stereotypes are just that.

The qualities that I have found in most of the women that I have met from EE are forthcoming, family oriented, nurturing, sexy, value education, value culture, and care about how they present themselves physically. 

That last one is dead on balls accurate... as is sexy.. and most value education... the rest are hit and miss on an individual basis.. probably more miss...

Please don't make me regret too much my positive "fantasies", because I will rescind if you insist that having stereotypes like these are ill advised.

I insist!  Stereotypes usually exist for a reason, but.... A lot of 'em are pretty and sexy.. not all are deserving of your positive 'fantasies'....  not trying to kill your dream there -- guys just need to remove the fantasy colored glasses at some point... better sooner than later.

[Simoni]

How do you know the RW "online" are GCG? Or how do you know the one in the park is not?
You're funny.

It's not funny at all.  I know it because they openly say it.  Read what Groove posted above.  We heard the same things from such women's groups.  And the shocking thing is they say it to our wives, thinking they are like them.  Not knowing they would tell their husbands what was being said...  Sad, really.

[SFandEE]

To me sad and dark too.  Really, really dark.

[KenC]

SF,
Of course an age gap marriage can work and an equal age matched couple could fail.  To my knowledge there is little or no statistical support to the concept of how much more risk is involved in a marriage with a great age difference.

What makes your original questions relevant is the fact that RW will even consider an age gap relationship.  There are many reasons for this, but they can be discussed at another time.  We, as men, think we died and went to Heaven (or at least the Playboy mansion) when our dating pool is expanded to women we dated many a year ago.

After my marriage to a much younger RW (25 yrs) ended, I gave this topic much thought.  (Not that I didn't give it a lot of thought prior to the marriage.)  My first thought is that the life stage that the couple shares is most important.  For example: A RW in her mid 30's that has had a child (or children) with a man in his mid 50's with children still would be in a similar life stage.  Whereas a man in his mid 40's with children (and no desire to have more) would not be a compatible match with a childless RW in her mid 20's.  Regardless of the current mindset of the young woman, as that can change over the years.

Other factors to consider are your long term health prospects and your energy level in the future.  These may be fine in the beginning, but with a great age disparity, will catch up to you long before the much younger woman.

There has been a number of discussions regarding the "shelf life" of age gap marriages.  They may indeed have a limited life.  All might be fine and good in the beginning but as the Beatles once sang "will she love you when you are 64?"
KenC

[Daveman]

 My first thought is that the life stage that the couple shares is most important.

I've always thought that this 'life stage' idea is the absolute best boil down of the age-gap 'question' I've ever heard/read.  It really makes perfect sense.

And it also explains the general built-in shelf life concept as well.  A stage of life can overlap and be shared for a period of time, either briefly or longer term, but will generally diverge at some point as one or the other takes the next step into another phase.

[KenC]

Dave,
It also boils down to the man playing both sides of the age gap.  He may feel young enough to keep up the interest with a much younger woman, but then he can't (or shouldn't) claim he is too old to.... (have children as an example)

A guy like Simoni (whom IIRC has a big age dif with his wife) is enjoying the raising of their beautiful young daughter,  Same life stage.

Billy makes the point up thread that even though he is 40, that he may be a good match for a much younger wife.  (Not that I believe for a moment he looks 32 )  Billy has always appeared to be in good shape (health) and if he is open to raising a baby or babies with a much younger woman, has a good chance IMO.

As for "how much is too much?", I would point out that the average age difference here on RWD is 14 years.  Of course guys like me and Turbo probably skew that number to the high side.  But Groov shouldn't worry so much about his 15 years as it is only slightly above average.
KenC

[Ade]

You're funny. I did understand what you meant by "real" but the women "online" are same as in "real" life. They are not virtual at all.
How do you know the RW "online" are GCG? Or how do you know the one in the park is not?
You're funny.

I would have to agree with Doll - sweeping generalisations about "networks" and "women online" are just ridiculous. My wife belongs to an online  "group" of Russian women/men in Norway; these are far from GCG and most are normal Russians who have come to Norway to live and work, some are Russian couples, some are singles here by their own professional merits and yes, some married Norwegians or other foreigners and emigrated here but those aren't the majority.

People should be treated and judged as individuals and attributing negative stereotypes just because you met them in and online group is just plain silly and ignorant - unless the group happens to be called "GCG online" but then you'd have to be dumb to want to hang out there.... or a GCG.

[Gylden]

They are not but by now I've met thousands AW who are all above. All above and much more- they are much more positive in their families, very sweet with their husbands, not so stubborn as RW. Also, don't forget the mentality- AW are much closer.
These are my 8 year observations.

Very correct! IMO

I've always thought that this 'life stage' idea is the absolute best boil down of the age-gap 'question' I've ever heard/read.  It really makes perfect sense.

And it also explains the general built-in shelf life concept as well.  A stage of life can overlap and be shared for a period of time, either briefly or longer term, but will generally diverge at some point as one or the other takes the next step into another phase.

Agree!

It's not funny at all.  I know it because they openly say it.  Read what Groove posted above.  We heard the same things from such women's groups.  And the shocking thing is they say it to our wives, thinking they are like them.  Not knowing they would tell their husbands what was being said...  Sad, really.

It most certainly happens, but not a surprise really when you consider the haste in which some relations develop.

[Simoni]

Doll & SJ-- the healthiest marriages occur when the wife assimilates with the people in the community, and does not cling to a life with a subset of the population.  The point I made about the two groups IS accurate and not a stereotype.  Yes, extending it to all similar groups would be a stereotype, sure.  But that is why I started the comment with my statement "sound one word of warning about this so called 'Russian network of friends.' "

So mine is one word of warning, and guys can take it or leave it.

[Doll]

  I don't see how "Russian women abroad" is a "rotten community". They might me "rotten" in the eyes of American husbands just because they can discuss same problems. Sure, it IS different when you talk to one "woman in the park" and hundreds "online". People always compare themselves to another people, it is a just a human nature. All RW (or FSU) women face same things in immigration- another country, another culture, another mentality, etc. Do we know how hard it is to "assimilate" and how long it takes? Yes, we do. It is always nice to have somebody to talk about all these things, to get some support.
Yes, you're right, Simoni, to share in the park and to share online is different because the "online" has to do with hundreds of opinions and a lot of experience.
Just like you're having it here, on this board. You're participating in the discussion, aren't you, Simoni? Yes, you are. Why? Because you want to share and "listen" to many people. Same is with "Russian network" (online or in the "community").
 Though, we both know what we're talking about- very often the husbands are just afraid of this "exposure" to many people. Many people means many opinions.
This is exactly what you don't want for you spouse, that's why you're "warning".
" Guys"  can take it or leave it, but "guys" can't keep their wives from communication. No way.
 Assimilation is anything but not hiding your wife from her "network".
 

[Doll]

Doll & SJ-- the healthiest marriages occur when the wife assimilates with the people in the community, and does not cling to a life with a subset of the population

In your dreams. In your dreams you can "bring" the foreigner and make her leave everything behind. It's not going to happen.

[Simoni]

Sure, it IS different when you talk to one "woman in the park" and hundreds "online".

Yes, you're right, Simoni, to share in the park and to share online is different because the "online" has to do with hundreds of opinions and a lot of experience.

Just like you're having it here, on this board. You're participating in the discussion, aren't you, Simoni? Yes, you are. Why? Because you want to share and "listen" to many people. Same is with "Russian network" (online or in the "community").
 

You are totally missing the point, or the group.  I am not talking about a virtual group, or an online group.  I'm talking about a group of 150 local women who meet together. They do have online connections, but what I am discussing is their face to face meetings.   My point and the point of other Russian women I quoted is that the group was made up of a subset of good RW--sadly, the subset is divorced and bitter RW and married RW who married for a green card and will soon leave their husbands. And they are very vocal about it.

[Simoni]

In your dreams. In your dreams you can "bring" the foreigner and make her leave everything behind. It's not going to happen.

No, not my dream.  My wife has many russian women friends.  But many more AW friends.  But the RW friends she has are in healthy marriages.  And BTW--my wife goes to the FSU once or twice a year as well as having friends here. She has left nothing behind.

Guys-- I think the answer is not rushing into marriage.  Take your time.  If you connect carefully, you will have a happy wife who won't have a desire to associate with negative women.  She of course will choose her own friends, but will be attracted to like minded women.

[Doll]

They are not but by now I've met thousands AW who are all above. All above and much more- they are much more positive in their families, very sweet with their husbands, not so stubborn as RW. Also, don't forget the mentality- AW are much closer.
These are my 8 year observations.

Very correct! IMO

It sure is. I do meet many AW every day, I work at school where the majority is women (mostly married). I hear them every day- how they talk about their husbands. I actually learn a lot from them because they know how to be "sweet".
By " sweet" I don't mean anything bad. Once they pick the man to be the husband, they rarely b &(^tch this man. This how it is in this country (generalization  ).
RW tend to complain more often which is the mentality. "One woman in the park" or a thousand online - doesn't matter.

[Doll]

You are totally missing the point, or the group

No, I am not. I do understand your point.

[Doll]

My wife has many russian women friends.  But many more AW friends.  But the RW friends she has are in healthy marriages.  And BTW--my wife goes to the FSU once or twice a year as well as having friends here. She has left nothing behind.

OK 

[Simoni]

A guy like Simoni...Same life stage.

Your point is on target, Ken.  Being at the same life stage as we are in, with a focus on our 15 month old daughter, does enhance our marriage and draws us closer together.

But long term, the guy better choose a woman he will love in all phases of life.  It is possible to do so--as I shared earlier, most of our friends here in the condo have big age differences.  They no longer have children living at home, but are constantly together, go golfing or to Ray baseball games or to the movies.  Still holding hands too, after all those years.