The 10 Commandments---Age Difference

[Doll]

Simoni, how younger is your wife? Just asking.

[TeddyBear]

KenC, your marriage to your RW ended?  I thought it was going well?

[KenC]

Your point is on target, Ken.  Being at the same life stage as we are in, with a focus on our 15 month old daughter, does enhance our marriage and draws us closer together.

But long term, the guy better choose a woman he will love in all phases of life.  It is possible to do so--as I shared earlier, most of our friends here in the condo have big age differences.  They no longer have children living at home, but are constantly together, go golfing or to Ray baseball games or to the movies.  Still holding hands too, after all those years.

Simoni,
It is the younger woman that will have to accept (or not) the life changes in the older man more than likely.  It is he that will be hitting "the wall" long before she does.

BTW, I "get" what you and Groov are saying in regard to a subset of other RW.  My opinion on this is sure to raise the dander of others, but what the hell?  I believe that the quality level of women in America from the fsu is MUCH lower than in their home countries.  It was difficult for Lena to find appropriate friends here in the beginning.  It seemed like she ran into one lowlife RW after another for quite a while.  Scammers, cheaters and liars with many bad habits and traits were rather common.  Being hungry for a taste of home, some of these acquaintances went on longer than she really wanted.  Even here in San Diego after ten years, her group of "friends" was maybe 50/50 with regard to solid good moral women and not.
KenC

[KenC]

KenC, your marriage to your RW ended?

Yes 

I thought it was going well?

It was until it fell apart at the seams due age difference issues.
KenC

[Faux Pas]

Simoni,
It is the younger woman that will have to accept (or not) the life changes in the older man more than likely.  It is he that will be hitting "the wall" long before she does.

BTW, I "get" what you and Groov are saying in regard to a subset of other RW.  My opinion on this is sure to raise the dander of others, but what the hell?  I believe that the quality level of women in America from the fsu is MUCH lower than in their home countries.  It was difficult for Lena to find appropriate friends here in the beginning.  It seemed like she ran into one lowlife RW after another for quite a while.  Scammers, cheaters and liars with many bad habits and traits were rather common.  Being hungry for a taste of home, some of these acquaintances went on longer than she really wanted.  Even here in San Diego after ten years, her group of "friends" was maybe 50/50 with regard to solid good moral women and not.
KenC

Whether this is true or to what degree I really have no idea. I've read much on the forums through the years about these women friends lurking in on the fringes. I suppose I am lucky in the regard that there isn't a measurable RW community in my area. The RW in my area the wife has met are some fine quality women. Quite honestly, she's made one or two AW friends that to me, fall under your description here. She recognizes it to and keeps them at an arms length.

[KenC]

Whether this is true or to what degree I really have no idea. I've read much on the forums through the years about these women friends lurking in on the fringes. I suppose I am lucky in the regard that there isn't a measurable RW community in my area. The RW in my area the wife has met are some fine quality women. Quite honestly, she's made one or two AW friends that to me, fall under your description here. She recognizes it to and keeps them at an arms length.

Faux Pas,
This may be an concept that is driven by the age group in question and also with life stage.  More likely in a mid 20 year old without children than a mid 30 year old with child for example.  Some stability comes with age.
KenC

[Gylden]

I think a large age gap can certainly attribute to this, but basically IMO if a woman is feeling good about her relationship and adjusting well, she won't necessarily feel a need for it. Feeling good about the relationship can and will help with many cultural adjustments IMO as well. Also I believe that most women have given the adjustment stage considerable thought before ever committing to marriage.

[KenC]

I think a large age gap can certainly attribute to this, but basically IMO if a woman is feeling good about her relationship and adjusting well, she won't necessarily feel a need for it. Feeling good about the relationship can and will help with many cultural adjustments IMO as well. Also I believe that most women have given the adjustment stage considerable thought before ever committing to marriage.

Sorry to disagree, Gylden, but adjustment to their new country has little to do with the eventual relationship problems due to age difference.  In fact, the faster the adjustment, the sooner these problems may arise IMO.  It may indeed be a comfort to have an older (wiser) man to lead them through the adjustment period.  A "Father figure" if you will.  Once those hurdles are crossed and the every day routine of life settles in, is when the problems are more likely to come into play.  Having a common goal of "Americanizing" the new immigrant is exciting.  Frustrating yes, but exciting too.  Once the learning of the new culture and systems for living in America abate is when the regular life begins.  Of course it may take years for the much younger wife to ask "Is that all there is?"  Or maybe even "I want more."  Not in a material sense, but in a sociological sense.
KenC

[Ravens9273]

What I have noticed from the many times an age gap thread is started it is the OP looking for approval from others on their decision to court Women much younger then they are. The reason the OP's do this is because they already have doubts in their own mind to do so.
Just the fact they needed to post a thread should already give them their answer and they will fail in the long run with a large age difference marriage.

If not for the thought of large age gap marriages 95% of the Men on this journey would never have started. Marriage agencies would not exist. The age gap fuels this industry but it is never said.
We have heard many times the journey started because of the stereotypes of RW. However how would one know the stereotypes of RW when most Men knew nothing about them when their journey began?

Truth is there are more beautiful Women in the USA then Russia and Ukraine.
USA population is more then double that of Russia and more then 6 times that of Ukraine.

It is only believed to be oposite because the agency websites only put the beautiful Women in our faces. I could build a website of American Women as well 100 times larger with nothing but beautiful Women.

I have tons of pictures from travels to Ukraine of just out in the streets. Going through those pictures of normal day life and 1000's of people in them I was wondering where were all of these super models everyone was talking about.
Occasionally there is the beautful girl in the picture walking up the street however I could get the same results taking pictures in the US. It is easy to build a stereotype of beauty when it is all you show with professional photoshopped pictures of Women recruited on the streets and nightclubs.

There are tons of pictures online and videos on youtube of normal everyday Ukrainian and Russian life. What one will see is the stereotype is not adzactly there.

If I only took all the NFL and NBA cheerleaders I already built a higher database of 10's and 9's then Anastasia has. If I decided to then throw in the Hooters Girls I have surpassed all RW agencies sites of Beautiful Women. Lets also not forget that most of those 9's and 10's on anastasia are really 6's and 5's in person.

Another stereotype is RW are more family oriented. While I find this to be extremely false it is amusing to hear such statements from Men who also write on these forums they no longer wish to have children at their age. Since they do not want a family what is the point of making these statements?

This journey is started more by Men thinking with the little head more then the big one. It has nothing to do with long lasting relationships. They are more occupied with the thought of a much younger Women in their bed. Because of the sales pitch made by agencies for so many years it is in the FSU where Men believe they can fullfill this fantasy.

If the above was not true there would be alot more marriages from these agencies then there are, and as I had mentioned before on these forums most couples (marriages) success stories these agencies have posted the couples are evenly matched and look like a couple that you would expect to be together. I have yet to see Anastasia or any of the other big agencies post success story pictures of a 20 year old beauty with an average middle aged Man.

What is the purpose of my post?
Since most started this journey based on a large age gap relationship they would have better odds of success at home. It is no easier to find such a wife in the FSU (foreget agency hype). The only reason Men are choosing the FSU over their own backyards is because they were lead to believe by agencies (who want your money) that you could do so in the FSU. You will also never succeed in a marriage when the little head is doing most of the thinking.

[Faux Pas]

Faux Pas,
This may be an concept that is driven by the age group in question and also with life stage.  More likely in a mid 20 year old without children than a mid 30 year old with child for example.  Some stability comes with age.
KenC

Good point. My wife and I both are mid and late forties with a 4 year difference and we are in the same stage of life. I can brag and give her credit here though, she is a quality woman and as best as I can tell solely from her actions, influenced by no one but her mother and I, in that order. She is quite demure, soft spoken, very intelligent and a bit charismatic where others want to be her friend. I make no attempts (as if I could) at pick her friendships. I don't see that as my position.

[Doll]

Another stereotype is RW are more family oriented. While I find this to be extremely false it is amusing to hear such statements from Men who also write on these forums they no longer wish to have children at their age. Since they do not want a family what is the point of making these statements?

The point is - "since she is family oriented she will stay with me no matter what"
keep dreaming, guys. If she doesn't (after she gets her GC) then she is a GCG.
 Men want to do what they want and the woman has to support them.
I don't think so.

I am with Ravens.

[Doll]

Another stereotype is RW are more family oriented

Русские долго запрягают, но быстро едут. 

[KenC]

Raven,
I agree with your assessment that most age gap threads are used as sounding boards for the OP.  A kind of a testing of the waters.  However, I do disagree that a large age gap in relationships is as acceptable with AW as it is with women from the fsu.  Having an older man as a benefactor, even if he is married is much more acceptable in the fsu than here.  Most AW are looking for a man of similar age or even younger now.  The beauty of any group of women is in the eye of the beholder too.  IMO fsu women tend to have a leg up on American women because they are much more likely to be weight proportionate.
KenC

[Doll]

IMO fsu women tend to have a leg up on American women because they are much more likely to be weight proportionate.

Men too. It is cultural.

[SFandEE]

Very interested in your stories about how your experience with a large age difference played out and when you become aware of how the relationship would develop (marriage, friends with benefits, friends, or arrangement).  Long question, but I have seen some good relationships with an age difference.

As OP here is the start of the thread.  My experience was not started with foreign dating sites.  I have RW/UW friends that I have made first here and then on my own when I traveled there on my own.  Last year I met a couple that met through AFA.  They seemed to be doing well and were sharing a very compelling story of mutual interests, passion, and adventure.

I am not seeking an "age difference".  I am seeking a quality relationship that can transition into a committed relationship and am expanding my exposure to women in the FSU.  This should increase the number of possible positive opportunities and I hope not increase the likelihood of a bad relationship.

I am highly aware of some of the tools of the scammers, some, I am sure not all.  One tool is 20 year-old bikini girls.  By getting involved with agencies I will get impacted.  Just like playing a sport there will be fouls and penalties.  Part of the experience.  How to minimize.  RWD hopefully and the experiences of others.

I am interested--still, and thought others might also be interested in the discussion I set up.  Not the answer to the question will a 20 year-old be happy with me 20 years from now.  None of you know this, although may have opinions.  This is not what I am currently considering either.

So originally request is above--it sounds like for some the nature of the relationship took a normal course, albeit undesirable.  It sounds like others may have met a much younger woman who used them to get a green-card, and I have heard some that are still happily married to their much younger wife.  

The wisdom I have taken from this so far is to be sure she is crazy in love with you.  I know how to tell this.  Be prepared that stages of life compatibility may allow for a relationship to work for some time, but when the stages get out of sorts problems can begin.  Perhaps there are things that can be done to resolve these incompatibilities.  From the maturity of the posts I am confident all of us will agree that even the best of relationships are work, have their ups and downs, and require two people who are moving towards the same goal.

[Gylden]

KenC,
LOL this thread is going so fast, I missed the timing. I meant that the large age gap situation can attribute to women finding those forums and hooking up with women having problems.

My position about age gaps is....The larger the age gap = The larger the red flag (to a certain point) and I know that it has worked and that many men including myself have with consideration ignored some red flags on occasion, but age gap is just one of those flags that deserves careful consideration.

I have to agree with Ravens as well, however IMO Europe in general is a bit more liberal when it comes to "age gap" than the US.

[Shadow]

KenC has, by his personal experience, provided the best answer here.

Any age gap difference will depend on the life stage of the men and women, and what seems not a problem now can be one in 10 years. This is why you should look to someone who is as close to you as you possibly can.

If you have had some family experience, find a woman who has as well or who is planning to have a family very soon. If you have no experience, find someone you can build it with together.

As far as age is concerned, never fool yourself. There are differences and while interests can be timeless, relations are not. Everything outside your local group is going to add weight to be carried in to the relationship. Culture, language, education, place of living all are factors that will determine the success. Adding age to it is just another weight, and the more weight you carry the larger the chance of failure.

[Gylden]

This is why you should look to someone who is as close to you as you possibly can.

Shadow,
Actually, this might be a bit extreme, IMO some sort of an age gap can be a good thing.
 

[SFandEE]

Русские долго запрягают, но быстро едут. 

My translation software for Русские долго запрягают, но быстро едут is Russian slow, quickly go.

Must not translate well.

There must be context, reference points.  No culture is an ideal--American included, sorry Sean Hannity.  The RW I know are family oriented.  Some are far from saints, but when it comes to their family they are devoted.  Some have negotiated their relationships though.  Guess I have found the exceptions.

[KenC]

The wisdom I have taken from this so far is to be sure she is crazy in love with you.  I know how to tell this.  Be prepared that stages of life compatibility may allow for a relationship to work for some time, but when the stages get out of sorts problems can begin.  Perhaps there are things that can be done to resolve these incompatibilities.  From the maturity of the posts I am confident all of us will agree that even the best of relationships are work, have their ups and downs, and require two people who are moving towards the same goal.

Very good synopsis, SF.

Men too. It is cultural.

(on RM also being weight proportionate) I agree 100%.
KenC

[KenC]

KenC,
LOL this thread is going so fast, I missed the timing. I meant that the large age gap situation can attribute to women finding those forums and hooking up with women having problems.

My position about age gaps is....The larger the age gap = The larger the red flag (to a certain point) and I know that it has worked and that many men including myself have with consideration ignored some red flags on occasion, but age gap is just one of those flags that deserves careful consideration.

I have to agree with Ravens as well, however IMO Europe in general is a bit more liberal when it comes to "age gap" than the US.

Gylden,
I don't believe Ravens made this point (but I did).  Any marriage is a risk.  Marrying a partner from a different culture with maybe a language bridge to cross is even more of a risk.  Adding a great age difference only will reduce the odds of success even further IMO.
KenC

[TeddyBear]

Hmmmn, would most agree then that 15 years or less is fine?  I would especially like Raven's thought on this.

[Doll]

There must be context

 The context is set by the topic- "RW are family oriented".
  So, in this case the proverb means that RW are patient to some point, then they make quick decisions. They can give you time to improve (lots of time), then, if you don't- they are gone (sometimes in a ugly way)  :evil:

[Doll]

Hmmmn, would most agree then that 15 years or less is fine?  I would especially like Raven's thought on this.

I agree.

[SFandEE]

This saying does make sense, I appreciate the lots of time to improve too.  Although I wonder if this is more of an issue than in other cultures, my experience would be probably not.  I am sure you know the American divorce rate. I think the Brits are the only Western country with more, would anyone have a real clue about Eastern numbers.

Do you think RW/UW own their role in a failing relationship--or is looking in a mirror harder for them? Closest thing I could find to a tongue in cheek icon.

Probably the reality of this problem is that dating and living together, AM/UW, is far less possible because of visa issues.  Which also complicates the motives for marriage as well.  If we were free to create our relationships as we see best, apart from government rules.  I wonder how much of this would be rendered irrelevant rather quickly.  If moving out were the down-side and not divorce and all its' complications, I wonder if these marriages would still eventually happen?  A musing.