My Trip to Secret City in FSU

[Mars]

In my first posts back in 2008, I told of traveling to Russia on missions to work at orphanages.  And I told that our group was advised that the members were blackballed and could not again get visas to enter Russia.  Subsequently, I have made some trips to Ukraine.

Now, it seems the political climate has changed a bit in Russia, (or perhaps it is just because of no elections coming up, etc) so our group was invited back.  A rotating group of Americans (people and companies) was involved in contributing all the money and a lot of the expertise and labor in building a new dormitory that can house 200 children, complete with kitchen, dining room, and gymnasium at an orphanage in a large city in Russia.

The organization was able to get several of us multiple entry business visas.  I spent about 45 days in Russia.  Most of my work was of a supervisory and instructional nature that only required a few hours a day, mostly in the mornings, and I did not even work every day.

I met several women on this trip.  Most of my meetings were in afternoons and evenings, but some were in mornings.  My planning was the same as I have discussed before.  For those who care to know, you can look at my prior posts.  Click on my name and then click on 'recent posts' or some such.

But basically I did NOT use any marriage agencies.  I used only web based dating sites that were free or with a monthly fee for unlimited contact with all women on the site.  FreePersonals.ru, singles.ru, luckylovers, allsinglerussiangirls, bride.ru, rbrides, etc.  FPR was free, Singles.ru is free, but to use their detailed search engine it costs around $10 per month, as I recall.  The others were $19 to $29 per month.  I only bought one month memberships, as I made all my initial contacts within the first week or so, and then corresponded via direct email after that.

I sent out probably 900 or more first contact messages and worked down from that.  The response rate is only around 10%, as there are many old and inactive profiles still posted that the websites refuse to remove as it makes it look like they are larger than they actually are.

I made first contact when I had approximately 6 weeks before arrival in the city.
I tried to limit it to weekly messages, so about 6 messages back and forth for each woman. 

By my arrival time, I was regularly corresponding with 27 women and had some contact with 6 or so others.  This latter 6 had answered me very late or some such, and thus were not up to speed with the correspondence, etc.

Of the 27, it just was a coincidence that they were grouped in 9s, as I had 9 that I considered top prospects, 9 that were maybe and 9 that were maybe, maybe.

This grouping was based on how closely a woman fit within my many criteria (read my prior posts), how interesting and timely their messages were, how genuine I felt they were, their English skills, etc., etc.  And yes, I was not always correct in my a priori analysis that led to the groupings.

I can provide detailed reports of my meetings with each woman, but I will provide no actual names, no pictures and will not even name the city that I visited.  There will be no way that anyone can connect my words to any specific woman.

Most all of the women were between the ages of 40 and 47.

I made my own arrangements for an apartment.  I obtained a fairly nice 2 room apartment with modern bath and kitchen.  The only major drawback was lack of high speed internet.

The days I specify below are only for days that I met with a woman.  The day noted does not correspond with my actual day in the city.  For instance, I did not meet the first gal until my third day in the city, but I call it Day 1.  Day 6 in my report might be my 10th day in the city, etc.

- - - - - - -

Day 1.  Red Haired Gal (RHG)

RHG was not necessarily my number one gal, but she had indicated that she could meet with me on any day, at any hour.  And, she had told me that she could take several vacation days for later meetings during this first visit of mine, and that she could take several weeks of vacation for my planned return trip in the fall.  All of that made it easy to arrange this first date.

We agreed to meet at 2 PM in front of a church near my apartment.  The church was surrounded by very large grounds and walkways.  I called her name twice as she was walking in other direction 15 to 20 feet in front of me.  I think she saw me approaching before she turned to walk away, just before I first called her name.  So my first thought, when she didn't respond to my first call of her name, was that she didn't like my looks at all.  At second call, she turned around and said, “yes I am RHG.”  She put out her hand and said “pleased to meet you.”  She smiled a lot and had a small laugh often.
                               
She claimed 5' 6 and 124 on profile, but looked closer to 135 plus.  Her posted pics were 10 or more years old.  She did send me more current ones as communication proceeded.  All pics covering several years showed light red hair.  So I assumed it was  natural.  But in real, it was dyed as I saw some darker brown, black roots.  Her nose was very broad at the base or bridge.  Teeth straight but somewhat off-white to yellowish.  Facial skin was quite flawed which can be typical for true redheads, but not brown heads.

As the meeting progressed, I was trying to analyze if I could accept her looks, and decided I probably could.  The small laugh and frequent smiles pulled me in.

She had already told me about a nearby restaurant.  Very nice place and we were the only two there which was great because I had to avoid smokers.  Her English around 6-7 or so, which was no problem.  Said she had studied English in both school and university, but no real practice.  Daughter just turned 22 and had spent 6 months as  foreign exchange student in an English speaking country.

No English menu, but RHG said no worry as I do it for you.  I just had pork steak and potato and water.  Later a small chocolate thingy.  She had beginning salad, soup, an appetiser, salmon with some shrimp, water, juice, 2 wines and a fancy dessert.  Bill came to around $120 of which mine was less than $25.  I left equivalent of around $150 and then went to toilet.  When I came back RHG said she had told the waiter to keep all the rest.  No asking me about it.  Then, she was writing on some paper.  Later, waiter brought her a card.  I asked what it was about.  She said, I come here often so they give me discount card.  But I paid for everything!!  And she can’t afford to pay here.  Her looks not good enough to get many local guys to bring her anywhere, so don’t know what was the story.

I thought that I had scored many points with RHG.  For instance, I asked about the recent birthday party for her daughter.  She smiled and told me it was nice that I had remembered because it was important that her man and her daughter had a good  connection.

And she once mentioned something about her birthday, and I immediately called out the correct date.  This brought a large smile to her face also.  I did all the correct things in helping her with her coat, her chair, gave her my arm at the steps, etc.

We left the restaurant and she suggested a long walk since weather so nice.  I readily agreed.  We walked through the church grounds and some side streets to a main street.  I had told her about wanting to buy an Internet access card for an older dial up system that I had used before in another city.  We stopped in a few places and she showed my old card. We got the standard Nyet comment with a snarl at all places.  I kept pushing her to ask second question of where and who might have it, but as with most all these women, they are reluctant to do so.  They are used to just accepting the Nyet and not making any progress toward a logical solution.  Finally one clerk did say Metro, which I was already thinking from the beginning.

As we were about half way from church (my apt was nearby) to city center square, RHG pointed back toward my apartment area and asked if I knew where we were and how to get back to my apartment.  I said, maybe.  She said it is very simple.  I thought this was a clue of something more to come, but wasn’t sure.

We walked on down to the center and went underground to the Metro.  Looked for the card and got a lot of snarly Nyets.  RHG again refused to inquire as to who might have or where to go.  We climbed up to opposite side of Metro onto a large square.  I was starting to get out my camera when ‘out of the blue’ RHG said to me.  I must go in maybe 10 minutes and pointed in a direction.  That was opposite the direction she had earlier said was the location of her apartment when we were back at the restaurant and looking at map. 

So she again pointed in general direction of my apartment and said: You can go and find it yourself . . . yes?

So here a gal spends a pile of my money, takes me on a long walk away from my comfort zone . . . and then dumps me.  This was agreed to be an afternoon and evening date with more to do later.  Now it is over at 4:30 PM.

RHG had been a good (but not great) correspondent and had impressed me by saying she would meet at any hour of any day.  And she told that she had saved vacation days so could spend several days with me over the course of my long stay in her city.  Now it’s all wiped out in 2 and half hours.

So that first split second glance she got of me from 20 or so feet away was when she decided that I was not the man for her.  She had previously seen close to 30 recent pictures of me from all angles and poses.  The rest was just . . . get the best meal and drinks possible and then a leisurely walk toward some friend’s home.

I know that some will be quick to label her as a pro-dater, but she was not good looking enough to pull that off too many times.

I hypothesized it was one or both of two things: 1) it was the instant glance that told her she just didn’t like my looks.  2) I had declined to drink an alcoholic beverage which caused her to label me as (insert what you wish).  I actually do drink an occasional beer and wine frequently, but only in a home.  I tried to explain this (and the reasons) to her, but I don’t think she liked it, even if she understood it.

               

[Ade]

Why on earth do you think that her not liking you had anything to do with how you look? After all dude, I don't like you and I've no idea how you look.

And really, if you take a woman to a restaurant in the FSU, you should at least be man enough not to moan about the bill and complain about her "spending a pile of your money".  

Edit - I just read the "report" to my wife and she agrees with me on many things that are wrong with what you say and your attitude. Here are a few things to start;

- This reports is not as anonymous as you'd like to believe. If you think that the woman and her daughter won't know who you're talking about, you have to be kidding yourself. You can probably add other members of her family and friends too.

- Every person has a right not to like you and to call off all bets once they've met you. Prior statements that they can take time off are not binding commitments and are dependant on whether they like you, or not as this case turned out. This is just a given.

[vwrw]

Mars, thanks for sharing your adventures with us.

Unlike SJ's wife, I do not think that your analytical approach to dating constitutes anything wrong.  Your conduct is a perfect exemplification of how a person would behave has s/he been following the instructions that are usually found in art of thinking guides. You are observant; you do not mindlessly absorb the information that you see, you interpret it thoroughly. You do not neglect thinking of implications of the info you perceive. Besides, you obviously are capable of staying rational in settings where many men would be afflicted by hormones, myopia, emotions, wishful thinking, inferiority complex, …you name it.

All those are good in my book.
My question is- have you ever lost your head (not literally:) over a woman? Or, has any woman ever generated in you so much chemistry that for a while you stopped  being analytical and rational?
Mars, you do not have to give me a detailed response, if you do not wish to do that. I will be satisfied with simple “yes” or “no”.

[vwrw]

I agree with you that it would be unfair to label the woman as a pro-dater. A pro-dater would not walk away on her date, I believe. I think she did not like something in your appearance…wrong haircut or attire, your shoulders turned out to be narrower than she expected, to voice a few suggestions.

I am certain you know that we learn many things through comparisons and contrasts. If there were no other men on your pictures, she would not have an opportunity to evaluate you relative to other men; and as result, she would misperceive the largeness or smallness of your body on your pictures. 

You lost me with your second hypothesis…how a refusal to have a drink would cause a normal woman (not a drunkard) not to like a man? 

[Gtex]

On the other hand:

Thank you for your report.  Not all are accustomed to the style of a technical debriefing.  I found it excellent.
Of course, to reveal a critical eye is to force the reader to turn it on the author.  A brief, candid personal sketch would pre-empt this curiosity, though without a proof of truth short a current picture.  .  

I did not understand your comments to imply that you were "cheap" about the meal, or greedy in your attitude.  To connect this to the quality of your manhood is not appropriate (and I must say somewhat puzzling, even juvenile).  Just for the record, (to the contrary) I think you "manned up" quite nicely.  Still, your back handed comment about her "looks not good enough" reveals a bit much pique.  Still, these folks do not themselves usually tip and for her to give away your money was strange in context.  If it had been an AW it would be more understandable.  

I suspect the paperwork was for her discount card which she may have been crediting to her account rather than benefit you.  You evaluation seems strange to some Europeans because they do not share the same concepts of value and fairness as we in the USA (which I assume you are).  It is basically the weighting value of "earned vs entitled."  Also, most Russian/Ukrainian women would agree with SJ.  It does not mean they are right, just the way it is... different!

On a more pleasant note, I have never been able to explain the concept of AW's  denying sex as a tactic in argument.  The RW/UW usual response was "Why would I deny myself of pleasure to punish someone else?"

Reports being discovered here have happened but it is rare.  The details of your report is I suspect are even more well hidden than just the precautions you detailed.   We will see what happens.  SJ's first language is not English (I think) and he has drawn the wrong conclusion at end (IMHO).  You did not want to spend anymore time with her, you understandably expressed only regret that this most flexible of all your possibles was off the table at first blush.  

Before getting the rope, I suggest we hear more of this adventure.  I look forward to it and thanks for so far not revealing the outcome.  Suspense is not a bad writing technique and I do believe superior to speculative extrapolation and name calling.

Also, if that was USD for the meal and not Gryvna, you got plucked and screwed (or not in this case).

[jb]

I left equivalent of around $150 and then went to toilet.  When I came back RHG said she had told the waiter to keep all the rest.

My BS Meter pegged on that one.  A $30 tip is unheard of,,, my gut instinct says she pocketed that money and plus racked up some form of bonus points at the restaurant.   I'm surprised she didn't take you on a shopping spree.  I think you were played like a cheap violin.

[Ade]

SJ's first language is not English (I think)

No, I'm British. And I think I have a pretty good grasp at Mars' mindset, at least as much of one as is possible from his postings here.

The overly analytical approach, if you want to call it that, is going to go over like a heart attack at a wedding with most women, vwrw being one of the rare exceptions. And please remember that vwrw thinks it's absolutely normal for a twenty-something to want to be with a guy 35 years or more her senior, so her opinion for anything approaching normality is suspect from the get go.

I honestly don't understand why you guys focus on the physical when she apparently saw dozens of pictures before they met. Unless she was blind or Mars did a silly and gave her photos that were 20 years out of date, she knew what he was going to look like. The "walking away" at the initial meeting was more than likely just that she didn't see him, and him bringing this up afterwards was his mind rationalising reasons for her dislike. Well, my guess is that, like me, she found him to be weird. Maybe she noticed him examining her teeth.

And Gtex, remember, a sense of humour is a good thing.

[Gylden]

All of this sounds pretty normal to me. Both knew it would go no where from the first hello. She took him to a restaurant which would benefit her, after that "game over". I am sure it wasn't the first time she was disappointed, if you give her the benefit of the doubt that she is serious.

This "shotgun" approach or whatever you want to call it. An extreme example of WMVM IMO will tend to go in this direction, as a person really doesn't get to know much more than schedules etc. (or at least remember much more than that of 27 women). Hit and miss!  Good job Mars, for remembering the birthdays!!  But in this case it was a waste of brain space. Are you using notes to remember those details?

Looking forward to the next 26!!!
 
 

[vwrw]

A $30 tip is unheard of,,, my gut instinct says she pocketed that money and plus racked up some form of bonus points at the restaurant. 

My instinct concurs with yours. I think RHG pocketed the money.

Some women live by the following precept “If escape is not possible, then relax and try to derive as many benefits of the unpleasant situation as possible”. I think RHG is one of these women. Since she could not escape interaction with Mars, she was looking for ways to benefit from the interaction with him.

[vwrw]

 You evaluation seems strange to some Europeans because they do not share the same concepts of value and fairness as we in the USA (which I assume you are).  It is basically the weighting value of "earned vs entitled."  Also, most Russian/Ukrainian women would agree with SJ.  It does not mean they are right, just the way it is... different!

There are people caring and not caring about their integrity everywhere in the world, in each culture. You are correct that some Europeans do not adhere to high moral principles, yet the same can be said about some Americans. Therefore, please leave ethnocentric declarations out of this thread. 

[vwrw]

The overly analytical approach, if you want to call it that, is going to go over like a heart attack at a wedding with most women, vwrw being one of the rare exceptions. And please remember that vwrw thinks it's absolutely normal for a twenty-something to want to be with a guy 35 years or more her senior, so her opinion for anything approaching normality is suspect from the get go.

You are correct SJ that many women might be discouraged seeing that their date is capable of rational thinking in their presence because it is extremely difficult to manipulate such men. So why then Mars' overly analytical approach is wrong? Does it not help him to deter incompatible women from himself? Why would he want to attract most incompatible women when he is looking for a compatible one?

To your information, I do NOT think it is normal for a twenty-something to want to be with a guy 35 years or more her senior since such relationships are not as pervasive as relationships without an age gap. My position is that it is possible for a twenty-something to want to be with a guy 35 years or more her senior, not normal. So please, refrain from claiming that you know what I think. You are not on the same weave with me  to be able to read my mind… although you also are one of the rare exceptions, in some sense. 

[Mars]

My question is- have you ever lost your head (not literally:) over a woman? Or, has any woman ever generated in you so much chemistry that for a while you stopped  being analytical and rational?
Mars, you do not have to give me a detailed response, if you do not wish to do that. I will be satisfied with simple “yes” or “no”.

Short answer:  Yes.  But it is all relative.  That is, relative to what some men here (and other places) have done, I have never lost my head.  But relative to my normal behavior, I have lost my head a bit a couple of times.  But it never went so far as to make me do something really, really stupid for or because of a woman; just a little silly perhaps for a time.  I have certainly had some extremely high chemistry meetings and encounters, but still was able to act in rational manner - - - where are the condoms, lock the doors, don't sign a blank check, check the vagina for hidden razor blades, etc.

[Mars]

You lost me with your second hypothesis…how a refusal to have a drink would cause a normal woman (not a drunkard) not to like a man? 

Surpised at your words.  You know much better than me that drinks flow freely in FSU at parties, weddings, etc.  A person who does not drink is often thought of as extremely strange; it even offends some people.

[Mars]

Also, if that was USD for the meal and not Gryvna, you got plucked and screwed (or not in this case).

I clearly stated it was USD.  I don't think Gryvna is much used in Russia!!

I should also state that this restaurant was quite 'high end' as I was able to ascertain after several meals in other restaurants in this town during my long visit.

[Mars]

My BS Meter pegged on that one.  A $30 tip is unheard of,,, my gut instinct says she pocketed that money and plus racked up some form of bonus points at the restaurant.   I'm surprised she didn't take you on a shopping spree.  I think you were played like a cheap violin.

You should check in with VWRW.  She could readily tell you that NO woman is about to take me on a shopping spree.

I never shy away from paying a high restaurant bill; I only noted the disparity between what my portion of the bill was compared to hers, and the tip fiasco.

But you will never read that I bought a gal a $700 coat or pair of boots.
I am not cheap or (greedy as misused by FSU people), but I am not stupid either.

[Mars]

as a person really doesn't get to know much more than schedules etc. (or at least remember much more than that of 27 women). Hit and miss!  Good job Mars, for remembering the birthdays!!  But in this case it was a waste of brain space. Are you using notes to remember those details?

Looking forward to the next 26!!!
 
 

I am blessed or cursed with a large capacity memory.  But, because we never know when Mr Alzheimer will arrive, I do have a summary of each woman in my laptop with the most important info detailed, and review that before my first meeting with each woman.

I have no trouble keeping track of 15-30 different women; although I know many men cannot even do it for 2 to 3.

[Mars]

Day 2 Music Gal (MG)

Met with MG in front of Church at 2 PM.  We arrived at virtually the same moment.  She gave a big smile and said she first wanted to ask how to pronounce my name.  She was looking very good in cream colored silk pants with light colored coordinating top.  5 feet 8 inches, 121 pounds.

I was very pleased to note that she was even more slender than I had imagined.  Her pics showed such, but pics are often out of date.  Hers were not or, if so, she hadn’t changed at all, either in face or body.  She had blonde hair, but it was not natural because her profile stated brown hair and brown eyes.  I noted 3 or more medium sized moles or some such on her face.  Her teeth protruded a tiny bit and were yellowing.  But I knew the teeth could be zapped pretty close to white and quickly decided the rest could be lived with.  Particularly since she had exactly the body style that I was desiring.
For those readers who don’t like such descriptions - - - stop reading and go pee up a rope.

MG had been one of my best email correspondents and had charmed me with her wit and original humor.  Not just telling jokes, but original humor about daily things in her life, etc.  She had highest degrees possible, and her mother, father and brother the same.  Quite an accomplished family and all employed in academia, research, or medicine.  And her two adult and near adult children and a niece were on the same path.  They all lived together in a 5 room apartment.  She and brother both divorced, but we never talked about the spouses or reasons.

I was worried earlier in the day if we were even going to meet; and she was also.  I had sent her SMS the day before and again in morning, but no reply.  Finally, I called her in late morning and she was excited to hear from me.  I asked her why no SMS from her.  She replied that she didn’t really know how to use SMS and had not heard any beeps.  While talking to me, she temporarily gave the phone to her niece who brought up the SMSs, to her suprise.

MG had told me before (in last email) that she didn’t want to go directly to eat upon first meeting.  Would rather walk first and, in fact, hadn’t been to restaurants for even a cup of tea for years.  Despite their high employment status, there was little money earned.  But on the phone call the day of our meeting, she said we would do whatever I wanted. And I am ready for a big meal at this time of day before smokers arrive.

So we walked down the first street to a semi-main street for right turn.  We walked north on that street.  We were having a good conversation and her English probably 7-8.  Plus she helped carry the conversation which helps a lot.   I had planned to go west on the big main street to find a restaurant.  But first I was looking for a good rate at a money exchange place.  I wanted to exchange some money and had noted before that some were giving a little more than most places.  I spotted one and did the exchange.

Then, just as we started walking again, MG spotted a restaurant back in a courtyard off the street. She had never seen it before, said it must be new.  It was actually the XXX named after the writer.  Looked like the perfect spot, so we went in and upstairs to an outdoor balcony.  As she ascended the stairs ahead of me, I could see for first time that her thin silk trousers were nearly transparent (in this particular lighting) and that she was wearing string panties.  So I could now see that the slender tight a$$ I had noticed before, was for real.  The string panties actually didn’t fit with her high professional position and otherwise conservative nature, but I was not complaining.

I had ‘pork fingers’ with mashed potatoes, brown bread and water.  MG only ordered raspberry or blueberry ice cream.  She couldn’t quite discern which it was. MG kept up a good stream of conversation with frequent smiles and laughs.  Quite a pleasure to be with.  We talked a lot about places that she and I had visited separately.  She explained her English ability was due to her attendance at her children and niece’s private English lessons over the years.  She had studied it in both school and university, but the more recent private lessons had given her a lot of experience in hearing the language, and she regularly talked with the children in English.  In fact, all the family tried to speak English only, for at least one meal during the week.

We walked over to the main street and followed the same path as I had with RHG before.  But I really felt there was no chance for the dumping I had received on that day.  I had forgotten to bring a chap stick and my lips were burning from the spicy pork.  So we went into an Apteka to find such.  She couldn’t quite understand what I wanted and told me there was no such thing for men.  But after I told her ‘clear lipstick for men’ several times, she managed to ask clerk who produced several ‘balms.’

I opened the package, applied the balm and then, on a whim, leaned forward and kissed her on the lips.  She didn’t resist, but quickly pulled back laughing and giggling, so it was one of the quickest kisses on record.  I said to her my ‘lipstick’ wouldn’t show up on her, but she said hers would on me.  But after an examination, she decided I looked OK.  I think the quick kiss really surprised her and also excited her a bit as she seemed a little ‘tipsy’ for a few minutes.

She took me on a grand tour through the central Park and kept up a running commentary of the various sites.  She made a special point of taking me to one particular spot so she could show me her family apartment building on a hill in the far distance.  We took some pics of each other and continued our leisurely walk through the very large park and past a couple of performance halls or theaters.

We then went across the to a city monument, took some more pics, and sat on some wooden benches in the shade.  Then we continued our circular walk back toward our meeting place at the church near my apt.  We stopped along the way and she helped me buy some cereal, pears and bananas.
                           
I had a feeling all day that she was much too conservative to go to my apt on first date (I never invited her, although I had told all the gals about the music and DVDs I had on my laptop for them to listen and view; when they were ready for it) and I was right.  As we entered the church grounds she said, “I should go home now.”  So we stopped and exchanged words about how pleasant the day had been and discussed some possible future days for other meetings. 

I then surprised her with another quick kiss.  I said, “Aren’t you used to kissing outdoors.”  She replied that she wasn’t used to kissing anywhere in the past several years and she had forgotten how.  I said, “I will teach you about the history of kissing and give you lessons at our next meeting.”  She smiled and said, “OK, it’s a deal.”  Then we walked our separate ways.

After my first disappointing date with RHG, I was quite pleased about this date with MG.  There weren’t great electric sparks, but she was quite a joy to be with.  Excellent slender body, long slender legs, good English, great conversationalist, highly intelligent, tremendous knowledge of literature, history, geography and current events, upbeat in nature, smiled, laughed and even giggled, told me jokes, laughed at my jokes, etc.

[Velena]

If women didn't exist all the money in the wotld would be meaningless.

[vwrw]

If women didn't exist all the money in the wotld would be meaningless.

Do you mean that if women did not exist there would not be trade between males?          Alternatively do you mean that giving money to women is the only meaningful way to spend it ?

[Ranetka]

 The string panties actually didn’t fit with her high professional position and otherwise conservative nature, but I was not complaining.

You're not in Kansas anymore.....

[Faux Pas]

You should check in with VWRW.  She could readily tell you that NO woman is about to take me on a shopping spree.

I never shy away from paying a high restaurant bill; I only noted the disparity between what my portion of the bill was compared to hers, and the tip fiasco.

But you will never read that I bought a gal a $700 coat or pair of boots.
I am not cheap or (greedy as misused by FSU people), but I am not stupid either.

Here's the sticker for me Mars, you invite the woman to dinner and make notation of everything she orders as if you are keeping score. Shouldn't really matter if she orders 3 Filets and cracked Lobster. You invited the woman and I assume with the pretense that you would be footing the bill, why the distinction?

You are very critical of her appearance to the point of if you could get over it. These vibes in a meeting can be easily detected. One may not think you are putting them off but many times it doesn't change the fact that one does and can be pick up on by the other.

The often used phrase "she's just not into you" comes to mind but, she went through with the dinner date anyway. Not a big deal it happens more often than not. FWIW if you invite me to dinner I am going to order what I want regardless of what you order and I expect others to do the same. She may have took advantage of your brief generosity there but it isn't a big deal. I look at those situations where someone defines their integrity with a price and consider it worth the price to be finished with them.

[pitbull]

check the vagina for hidden razor blades, etc.

What's that about? 

[Ranetka]

What's that about? 

I thought it was a joke. You reckon the poster's serious?

[vwrw]

You know much better than me that drinks flow freely in FSU at parties, weddings, etc.  A person who does not drink is often thought of as extremely strange; it even offends some people.

Frankly, I am not a party animal. I prefer spending my leisure time in circle of a few close friends conversing about something over going to a party or wedding.  So, no I did not know that people who refuse to drink might be seen as strange and that refusal to drink might offend some people.   

[vwrw]

What's that about? 

I thought it was an attempt to be sarcastic because checking the vagina for hidden razor blades is a paranoiac precaution, which is the opposite of acting in rational manner.