Marriage is about convenience?

[Aloe]

i dont think visa is that hard to get around here? The conditions are a lot milder, compared to getting a visa without EU residence. In Russia u'd have to bring 101 financial papers to prove ur going to come back, while here, according to the forum, you can bring the officially needed 1 financial document, and that's enough.

[Ade]

He does tell me all the time, that what he said was stupid and he didnt mean it (not about this phrase, but about dozens of other masterpieces he comes up with),  but why, why, why the hell would you say it in the first place if you dont mean it? I think he means it when he says it, and maybe means it a little bit at all other times, otherwise why say it?

Yes, at those times, for a brief period of anger and frustration maybe he does mean them but that's what being a young man usually means. I had my fair share of arsehole moments too when younger and, to be honest, I've had a few little ones since. Don't be afraid to tell him he's an arsehole for saying those things but give him enough room to apologise for them too; if you make it too hard for him, he may very well not apologise and then you may be left with lingering doubts as to if he meant them or not.

[Aloe]

Yes, tell him you want to go with him. A long weekend, flying to Stansted with Ryanair it's cheap as chips - hotel is more though of course but you can find cheapish hotels around. If you're going to there at the beginning of July, let me know as my wife and I will be there for 4 nights as first part of our summer holiday and I'm sure she'd be interested to say hello.

i dont think any of this is happening ill just sit at home as usual

[Shadow]

i dont think visa is that hard to get around here? The conditions are a lot milder, compared to getting a visa without EU residence. In Russia u'd have to bring 101 financial papers to prove ur going to come back, while here, according to the forum, you can bring the officially needed 1 financial document, and that's enough.

Its supposed to be easier, however I have read more than one story of a wife being denied even though there was no problem with the financial requirements.
Also it takes two trips at least to the Embassy...

[Shadow]

i dont think any of this is happening ill just sit at home as usual

You can always take the bus to Hasselt and buy Kvass. 

[Ade]

i dont think visa is that hard to get around here? The conditions are a lot milder, compared to getting a visa without EU residence. In Russia u'd have to bring 101 financial papers to prove ur going to come back, while here, according to the forum, you can bring the officially needed 1 financial document, and that's enough.

The UK visa for EU citizens with a non-EU partner is a pita - even for me as a UK citizen! But, it's more or less a formality as long as you get the application papers completed correctly - he will need to prove that there's a good reason to return with documentation of work contract and any assets etc. You fill the form in online but you will have to attend the UK embassy to get photographed and fingerprinted. My wife's application took 2 weeks or so.

[Ade]

Its supposed to be easier, however I have read more than one story of a wife being denied even though there was no problem with the financial requirements.
Also it takes two trips at least to the Embassy...

No, just the one. For the UK anyway.

[Aloe]

You can always take the bus to Hasselt and buy Kvass. 

Id rather go to the asian supermarket and stock up on thai ingredients

[GregfromGa]

My husband told me that "Marriage is about convenience: 2 people helping each other get through life". Honestly, i'm not sure what to make of this. Is marriage really about convenience? I'm thinking it's first and foremost about love, or is this foolish thinking? Can 2 people stay in love for 50 years? When does it turn convenient above all?

Me thinks Aloe's husband needs to get her out of the house more often. This very very lucky man needs to take this girl on a vacation. It's not like she's asking for Phuket or Sidney. The one thing my wife and I did before the babies was travel. It's a little harder with two long tails but it'll get easier. Now every date is not like the first date but we try. I'm not the one that needs to be telling your husband what to do but what would be wrong with you tagging along on a trip and hanging out by the pool for a couple of days? Good luck.

[Gtex]

Aloe, look at what you said:

"i told him if he goes, im coming with him, he says we cant afford it, so i say then if he goes, im going to london or something, cuz i wanna go somewhere too"

I realize you are young, but you are married now, so get a grip.  You want to go somewhere like your husband does, then get a job like his.  Just remember, be like him and bring home to the paycheck to benefit both. 

Think about what you are asking and doing, you behavior is self-centered.  Take me, give me, etc.  And as pointed out, you go there and he has to work.  Perhaps in the evening he has to spend time with the client (not an unreasonable assumption).  You will complain and again make his job more difficult.

You must see this from not just his, but the real perspective.  The center here is not you or him, it is his job.  If you enjoy the benefits, do not endanger it or his performance and responsibilities. 

Vacations together are good, but you need your own productive life.  Most have been very kind and I do not mean to be harsh, but really your thought and action here are immature (though he may be too) and counterproductive. 

The best you have been advised here is to get your own life in gear and moving forward; or, start having babies, that will keep you busy.  But remember, do not complain too much that then he does not help at home... he has the job that pays the bills.

[Blues Fairy]

Aloe, you really need to drop your victim attitude.  That's exactly what makes your husband blow up and act like an "arsehole" as SJ puts it.  

I know you sometimes feel wronged, but the way you express your feelings is bound to be taken as an attack.  When people feel constantly attacked, they become reactive and attack in turn.  You both need to learn non-reactive ways of communicating with each other.

[kievstar]

Aloe might be a good time for you to take a vacation to Egypt to a 5 star resort. When I worked in Brussels most of the people used to go to Egypt in May and October to 5 star all inclusive resorts for less than $2,000 per person.  4 star will be a lot cheaper. Numerous charter flights out of Brussels airport every Friday and Saturday. If you go in July and August even cheaper to Egypt but very hot. Most 5 star hotels in the world are not 5 star but there is no rule a hotel has to say there a 5 or 4 star. Very few real 5 star hotels out there.  So a 4 star hotel can be better than a 5 star.

I would advise the both of you go see a marriage counselor. You sound more like my first marriage where I married young and had a couple of  key differences. My current marriage has no issues because I made sure we were both on the same page. Best to find out now if you and your husband can live together.  

[facetrock]

  Aloe, with all due respect these problems in your marriage dont go away. You can hide them and try to forget about them but they will rear their ugly head again someday. Might be 1 week or 2 years from now but they will come back unless you both sit down and take the time to solve the problems now.

[Jumper]

Aloe-

I think BF gave good advice.
you feel a bit wronged (and justifiably)  but the way you approach it with him is always going to put him on the defensive..
and in this case a work trip he has the ultimate defense anyway ,and feels wronged as well.

I'm not sure what to suggest as far as approach ,but you do need to take a different angle ..

*perhaps*
calmly explain to him why you feel this way.

You've been a married some time ,
he has never taken you even to nearby brussels (closest city),for even one day together..
much less a weekend, or any other relatively close cities or points of interest.

since finances are a factor ,but do not prevent a day together  somewhere other than his village...
it really seems to be the core issue you two need to work out.


frankly , you knew while dating when he complained if you had a second drink , because it was a couple of euros, that he was a bit stingy  


 i'm joking -
and i do think he needs to pull  his head out of his butt and see that you sitting at home for a year  or so, without any sign of going and spending some time together,
 "just anywhere"  is odd.
He knows that his traveling bothers you, this isn't the first time, ,and he knows you feel a bit trapped in this village ,both by its size and the language issues,, and needs to make some attempt to alleviate that..
by the way, how is the dutch coming along?
He is young ,sometimes a young man needs a smack upside the head with reality.



 shadow said

Then you will be sitting bored in your hotel room as he has to spend time working and you can not join him, at a price of $1500 for one week. For that money you can go on holiday and enjoy together when he takes some free time.
The 5-star room is nice but mostly useless when you are on a business trip.

Shadow i agree with this ,,
and having traveled extensively with my job , often ran into similar scenarios.
(and sometimes  i did take her with me , or make plans to go somewhere together on my return ,even if it was just a weekend somewhere)

but there is more to it?

aloe likely would not even be slightly upset if he was offering to go "anywhere" with her on his return..

kievstar egypt? (yes i've been there ,it's great)
you guys dont get it .
 he has never taken her to amsterdam or nearby brussels for just a day together
  
she would not be posting if they had a egypt trip planned, or even hope of one anytime soon..  


The context of what aloes husband said, is important to understand his meaning ..
and understanding their general situation is important to understanding the issues as well?


In a year or two of marriage -
he has not ,nor shows any sign of , ever taking her to the closest city to them,
 even for a day or weekend  
(he sent her there on the bus to get her documents sorted)

she has clearly been stir crazy before , her husband should easily recognize it and not blow up ,when he knows the root cause ,
even if his  trip is of course work ,and nothing he can avoid or change the trip, he can
easily respond to his wifes real concern.

so far after quite some time , he has not ,,
and maybe i sound harsh , but  at this point i think it's convenient ,and cheaper ,not to

From this and many tother instances he just  seems to meet the stereotype of a greedy Belgian/dutch boy..(sorry)  
and with that awful stereotype hovering , regardless if it's accurate,   i'm shocked they ever get past the russki border..  



We only have aloes side, i'm sure her husband has his ..

but the reality is they have not gone anywhere together? perhaps the local bar or restaurant or his families homes.
he has made trips with work ,shes been stuck at home in a small town ,in a country she is learning the language for .

did any of you just put their wives on a bus to go to the nearest city to get their documents
after she arrived ?
she's an adult and capable ,so not a  a big deal?
 but if he had went with and made a day out of it i'm sure it wouldn't have cost much ,and his boss would be fine with it.

so i take his *convenient* comment out of this context and it looks pretty poor and selfish.


I actually don't think he meant it that way..
i feel he meant two people working together to make a better life .
and maybe din't express exactly what he felt at the moment of some argument.


but i do  see a young man that has always lived at home with mommy ,
first time on his own ,that needs to seriously grow up in his marriage.

[Boethius]

Aloe, you were wrong to be so petulant about this.  Traveling, even if you're staying at 5 star hotels, gets old pretty quickly (I know, because I used to travel a fair amount in my work).  It would also be a little strange for a spouse to go along on business travel.  Not unheard of, but strange.  In this context, I think what your husband was saying was you were being selfish, and you were.  You should be supporting him, rather than thinking of your own needs.  I think  that is what he was saying, not that marriage is about convenience, but about supporting each other and wanting what is best for your partner, even if it is inconvenient, or unpleasant for you (as AJ also noted).

I understand you're young and want to travel, see and do interesting things.  Since money is an issue, during his vacation, why don't you suggest a trip to Moscow?  You could stay with your parents, you can get there cheaply, maybe visit a few clubs, and you don't have to go anywhere expensive.

Today, I am home taking care of my husband.  I read him your post.  He said he understands you're alone, but if you wanted to travel and be around your husband all the time, you should have stayed in Russia.  It was your choice.  He also said your post is all about "me, me, me", and that you probably grew up in a home where you were the center of your parents' universe.  I think what he is saying is you need to grow up.  You seem to have a good husband.  Appreciate him.

[GregfromGa]

Aloe's husband is wrong to never take his wife anywhere but their little village. She's a young beautiful woman and she probably didn't bargain for the hand that she is being dealt. People here are telling her to just suck it up, that's life, grow up whatever well put yourself in her shoes for while. The girl is in a foreign land, doesn't speak Dutch the best in the world and she has hardly any friends. yes she needs to maybe explain herself better to her husband but it's time he realizes she is young and she's not asking for too much to want to go some place from time to time. If I were a single man, I'd be more than ready willing and able to show her around a bit. Strictly as friends mind you because she's married. She's a beautiful girl and this ole boy better get his act together sooner rather than later and start appreciating what he's got at home.

[Boethius]

She loves him, so there was no "bargain".  She willingly moved to the village. If she is stir crazy and the family budget can afford it, she should take an excursion for a day herself while he's away.  It would be inappropriate for Aloe to go anywhere with a single man, unless the man is gay.

Her husband is young and building a career.  She needs to support him.  As for all the excursions, unlike this young man, most of you married later in life, when you had assets.  I have been in the situation where vacations were impossible.  You play the cards you've been dealt.  There will be plenty of time to enjoy excursions later.

[BillyB]

Don't be afraid to tell him he's an arsehole for saying those things

If spouses get to the point of calling each other names, they got more problems on their hand. I've been angry at ex's before but never called them any names. Sometimes name calling can escalate into more vicious name calling and possibly domestic violence. Being mature during a disagreement is the best solution. Aloe's husband reaction to hers was not mature either.

Aloe, I know from your past postings that you husband never made much money and you knew that going into the marriage. I will not tell you to go on a vacation because you show hesitation yourself about being in the hole and causing more financial problems which can lead to further problems within your marriage. You are wise to understand that.

BF is right on when she said you are playing like a victim. Do you think your husband doesn't wish to make more money to make you happy? Have you considered getting a job to help save money for a nice vacation?

You mention you get jealous but does he give you reason? Do you think he's meeting other women on business trips? Have you watch the way he spends money?

Money is nice but the best things in life are free. One being love and if you feel your husband truly loves you, embrace it and build on it.

[Ade]

If spouses get to the point of calling each other names, they got more problems on their hand. I've been angry at ex's before but never called them any names. Sometimes name calling can escalate into more vicious name calling and possibly domestic violence. Being mature during a disagreement is the best solution. Aloe's husband reaction to hers was not mature either.

If was meant figuratively but sometimes, with some people, things need to be said literally and quite explicitly for it to sink in.

And FWIW, if a relationship and the people in it are so broken that a disagreement can escalate into domestic violence then there's not much of a relationship there to begin with, not one worth having anyway.  

[BillyB]

If was meant figuratively but sometimes, with some people, things need to be said literally and quite explicitly for it to sink in.

SJ, figure out who you're giving advice to and the fact that person is in a relationship. Is what you said above going to be your excuse if Aloe came back here crying that your advice didn't work?

[Boethius]

SJ's advice was that Aloe's husband should tone it down because his method of conflict resolution bothers her.  If it's not working to resolve the conflict, he should be told, so SJ's advice was good.  It's not rocket science.  

[BillyB]

SJ's advice was that Aloe's husband should tone it down because his method of conflict resolution bothers her.  If it's not working to resolve the conflict, he should be told, so SJ's advice was good.  It's not rocket science.  

Everybody here read what SJ said except you it seems. Here's what he said "Don't be afraid to tell him he's an arsehole for saying those things but give him enough room to apologise for them too; if you make it too hard for him, he may very well not apologise and then you may be left with lingering doubts as to if he meant them or not."

If Aloe's husband should be told that he is bothering her with his words and actions, then he should be told in those words without the "arsehole" included. "arsehole" does not resolve conflicts, it escalates it and that word should never be used as advice to resolve anything.

[SomeGuy]

There's been some good advice given by SJ and a few others here, and overall, I'm impressed.  Far too often someone asks for relationship advice of some sort on a forum, and the advice is worth exactly what they pay for it, or often less.

Aloe, no one here can see anything beyond what you write and tell us.  Even a best friend doesn't know everything about someone else's relationship, and people have many different styles of interaction with others.  Always bear that in mind when you read advice, especially anything you are considering following.

From what you've said, I do agree on a few things, which are of course worth what you paid for them.
1.  When upset or angry, people can and sometimes do say things they don't mean.  It's unpleasant, but occasionally happens to most of us.  If this is an ongoing problem, you both or individually may need to work on your problem resolution skills, maybe take a break in the discussion to avoid escalation.
2.  I don't know how long you've been married, but I do agree that you both should have taken at least some trips together.  They may not be to a dream location, but somewhere.  
3.  What you've written does come across as someone frustrated, but also somewhat self centered, instead of trying to see both sides of the story.  I can't guess if this is the usual attitude or not, I can only say that while not always easy, trying to understand or at least see both sides (his and yours) often can help, as can the next item.
4.  Probably most importantly, you and your husband need to be talking about this, far more than people on a forum.  It seems likely that at least in this case, neither of you really understands the other persons viewpoint here, and the two of you understanding is far more important than anything anyone here might say about it from the outside, looking in.

[Boethius]

He didn't mean it literally, Billy.  SJ was referring to behaviour in general, and for Aloe to say something along the lines of  "This bothers me".

If you think that was bad (it wasn't, it was sound advice), you'd be apoplectic at my husband's advice (which I didn't post).

[BC]

Do anything to get out of the 4 walls.

For the working WM, it's often nice to just come home, but for the women involved, being cooped up, feeling unproductive, etc isn't a piece of cake either.

A job, any job paid, unpaid or volunteer would probably be a good starting point and help get rid of that feeling of being, well, a nuthin.