Marriage is about convenience?

[Faux Pas]

Blues Fairy, a lot of women I met who want an older man tell me this because they want to avoid the childish acts of a young man they had experience with in a previous relationship. If Aloe's husband is calling her names often, they are having much more problems than Aloe is admitting. Verbal/mental abuse is worse than physical IMO. In America it is considered domestic violence.

Me thinks your lust for a 20 something year old wife has completely taken over your personality and now justifying its own self

[Blues Fairy]

Blues Fairy, a lot of women I met who want an older man tell me this because they want to avoid the childish acts of a young man they had experience with in a previous relationship. If Aloe's husband is calling her names often, they are having much more problems than Aloe is admitting. Verbal/mental abuse is worse than physical IMO. In America it is considered domestic violence.

Billy, you are not getting it.  Aloe is not one of the many "women you met", your experience is irrelevant in this case.  What's relevant is that telling a married woman what husband to choose "next time around" is completely unacceptable.  It's bad taste and rude.  She's still married and loves her husband, you know.  

[BC]

Personality may not be the problem since Aloe likes him. How he handles issues that get out of hand depends on his maturity and muturity and age almost, not all the time, go hand in hand.

Out of bound of what should be posted? Thanks for being there for me earlier.

Blues Fairy, a lot of women I met who want an older man tell me this because they want to avoid the childish acts of a young man they had experience with in a previous relationship. If Aloe's husband is calling her names often, they are having much more problems than Aloe is admitting. Verbal/mental abuse is worse than physical IMO. In America it is considered domestic violence.

Yes, mature would may have been a better word.

Those 'lot of women I met who want an older man' likely never had a long term relationship with an older man and are just guessing - as you frequently do.

Forget the 'In America' stuff too as they don't live there.  The laws are basically the same but interpretation can differ.  The 'no tolerance' stuff you live with is mostly BS produced by lawyers and judges with their hands tied.

[GregfromGa]

Of course this is a place for Aloe to come and vent and not be ridiculed by some ladies or men here because you can bet that their collective circumstances are not remotely similar to hers now or ever. I applaud BillyB for trying to offer up needed emotional support at this time of need. I think it's mighty nice of him to do so. He should be commended for this. Everyone needs a shoulder to cry on from time to time. BillyB is just listening and making observations. I'm sure he has no motives beyond just helping her emotionally. Now if she just happens to get a divorce sometime down the road  because her husband is  obviously neglecting her and then she just happens to remember BillyB for being nice to her well then you never know. That's kinda the way I see things. Keep up the good work BillyB. Your on a roll lately with some very astute observations. You bring a lot to this table. Although your not married, you have walked the walk and talked the talk over the years.

[Faux Pas]

Of course this is a place for Aloe to come and vent and not be ridiculed by some ladies or men here because you can bet that their collective circumstances are not remotely similar to hers now or ever. I applaud BillyB for trying to offer up needed emotional support at this time of need. I think it's mighty nice of him to do so. He should be commended for this. Everyone needs a shoulder to cry on from time to time. BillyB is just listening and making observations. I'm sure he has no motives beyond just helping her emotionally. Now if she just happens to get a divorce sometime down the road  because her husband is  obviously neglecting her and then she just happens to remember BillyB for being nice to her well then you never know. That's kinda the way I see things. Keep up the good work BillyB. Your on a roll lately with some very astute observations. You bring a lot to this table. Although your not married, you have walked the walk and talked the talk over the years.

I think Billy could have shown more good taste and sympathy by asking for her phone number. C'mon greg his remark was in completely bad taste and his tongue is hanging out

[BillyB]

 What's relevant is that telling a married woman what husband to choose "next time around" is completely unacceptable.  It's bad taste and rude.  She's still married and loves her husband, you know.  

I apologize to Aloe and everyone here if they are offended. I made my post out of anger.

About half the RW I've met admitted to me they have been subjected to domestic violence. Two of them had their nose broken. Most of the women that have admitted this to me are in their 30's and 40's and not 20 as Faux may want you to believe. All their problems came from previous relationships where their man was only a few years older and both in their 20's. One RW told me she denied for years that she was getting abused and tried to love her husband and it took years for her to feel comfortable around another man after she divorced him. All their experiences came from young Russian and Ukrianian men except for one.

There are 3 reasons I feel are justified for people getting a divorced. Abandonment, infidelity, and mental/physical abuse. I did not get worked up when BC made the "packed bags" comment because grounds to leave may be present if she's getting called more names than she admits. Aloe already has a mental scar. I hope it doesn't get worse and I'm not promoting her to break up but her husband needs help if he is calling her names.

Faux, your comment that my tongue is hanging out lusting for Aloe and asking for her phone number is definately in bad taste.

[Turboguy]

I have to agree that the "next time around" comment was not Billy's best moment and probably was not in good taste.  I am glad he has apologized and that shows he is the good guy we all knew he was.  We talk a lot about the problems with age gap marriages but sometimes young people can have their own problems they need to deal with.  When I think back to my first marriage I had some pretty immature ideas myself and I am sure I wasn't the only young person who was in the same boat.

They are in love and hopefully will work their problems out.  Long ago I read the first few chapters of Man are from Mars .... and the only part I recall is that men tend to be fixers and women tend to deal with their problems by venting.  That when a woman has a problem she wants to vent and wants someone to sympathise with her and understand the difficulties she faces.  Men want to fix the problem.  So, if a woman is having trouble with her boss and tells her husband she just wants him to understand her problems where he will want to go see the boss and tell him what for.   Hopefully we have been able to help by listening and understanding what difficulties she is going through.

[Blues Fairy]

I did not get worked up when BC made the "packed bags" comment because grounds to leave may be present if she's getting called more names than she admits. Aloe already has a mental scar. I hope it doesn't get worse and I'm not promoting her to break up but her husband needs help if he is calling her names.

Not sure if her husband calling her names can yet be qualified as mental abuse.  I'm more worried about him denying her the right to feel the things she feels.  I see it as a rather clumsy defense mechanism on his part.  What exactly he's defending against, the feelings themselves or her way of expressing them, is another story.  I would suggest they see a marriage counselor and get help outlining their current communication mechanisms and finding ways to improve them.  Could work miracles, especially as they are young and there's plenty of room to grow.  To see this marriage as failed is way too premature, IMHO.

[Faux Pas]

Billy, I think you are a good guy and I like you. My belief about you is confirmed in my mind with your apology to Aloe, who is the only person here due an apology. Your ego I have noticed has been zipped up a few notches on the testosterone level lately. You inferred her problems could be over with an older man which, also infers her husband isn't enough. Both couldn't be more completely wrong. Apologize is the first step, regret it would be the next than just simply step away. Attempting to chastise me for pointing it out is okay of it makes you feel better. I don't mind

[BillyB]

Apologize is the first step, regret it would be the next than just simply step away. Attempting to chastise me for pointing it out is okay of it makes you feel better. I don't mind

If apology is a good thing, then try it. Your post implying I'm trying to steal Aloe from her husband was meant to hurt me or get a major reaction as did SJ's earlier post, right? You didn't get a major reaction from me. Guys, don't get worked up emotionally reading my thread and carry your feelings all over the forum messing up other people's threads.

[Faux Pas]

If apology is a good thing, then try it. Your post implying I'm trying to steal Aloe from her husband was meant to hurt me or get a major reaction as did SJ's earlier post, right? You didn't get a major reaction from me. Guys, don't get worked up emotionally reading my thread and carry your feelings all over the forum messing up other people's threads.

Billy you made the statement to Aloe that justifies an apology and you did. You are a stand up guy for doing so. I didn't make such a statement to you. If you are looking for an apology from me for what I said to you, don't hold your breath. It ain't going to happen

[tim 360]

Not sure if her husband calling her names can yet be qualified as mental abuse. 

I don't know BF, many would say that would be psychological and emotional abuse.  Words can hurt.  Words can be weapons and some people will be hurt by words alone, especially coming from the guy you love.  For Aloe I think it should be clear that her relationship does have some problems which should be addressed before it escalates.  Not many women will continue to love a guy who calls her a beach.  This is not a healthy situation and I hope she finds the strength to deal with it.

[BillyB]

Billy you made the statement to Aloe that justifies an apology and you did. You are a stand up guy for doing so. I didn't make such a statement to you. If you are looking for an apology from me for what I said to you, don't hold your breath. It ain't going to happen.

 I focus on writing my posts to help Aloe. Some people felt I did wrong. I took note of that and reread what I said and I realized I wrote the post in anger.

The ladies did a much better job convincing me I was offensive in one post.  My goal is to help Aloe not hurt her so an apology is due since I may have said some hurtful things. Your and SJ's goal to me was not to show the error of my ways and help me, but to hurt me. I recognize that and understand apologies will not be coming. I'm a big boy. I won't cry.

[SMS60]

Would you guys cut all this apologetic crap out. 

[Ade]

I focus on writing my posts to help Aloe. Some people felt I did wrong. I took note of that and reread what I said and I realized I wrote the post in anger.

The ladies did a much better job convincing me I was offensive in one post.  My goal is to help Aloe not hurt her so an apology is due since I may have said some hurtful things. Your and SJ's goal to me was not to show the error of my ways and help me, but to hurt me. I recognize that and understand apologies will not be coming. I'm a big boy. I won't cry.

Billy, I don't care enough about you to want to hurt you. The fact is, everything I said in my post about you is taken from what you've said yourself. If I'm wrong please show me where.

Oh and yes, you're right, my post wasn't intended to help you at all but this thread ain't about you now is it?

[I/O]

Packed bag tests and other "foot stamping" ultimatums? Be very careful what it is you ask for as you just may receive it.

[Daveman]

that's true, but there has to be some way to help him be more receptive and consider the possibility that the way i say im feeling is the actual way it is?

Yes there is, unfortunately you are trapped in a pattern.  When you start speaking now, in any way which contradicts what he envisions, he tunes you out as making a big deal out of nothing.. because for him, what you are talking about is trivial, but the fact that you ARE talking about it is an invasion to his peace -- thus the over the top "bitch" comments, which are unacceptable. Unfortunately, that is the only way he knows (or thinks) at this point to get you to "get off his back".  He's probably feeling trapped by circumstance and feel that you are attacking him rather than supporting him. It makes little difference if that it true or not-- it is *all* about perceptions. 

Now, you *may* be able to find a way without an unbiased third party (counselor) guiding both of you to a better place.  The indication that he is now telling you how/what you really feel makes arriving to the level where you are truly listening to each other much more difficult. 

I still say, without a doubt, the best thing to do is to allow someone to help you both learn to communicate with each other effectively.  We go to a dentist twice a year; we have annual checkups for our health... there is absolutely nothing wrong or taboo about getting professional help with one of THE most important aspects of your life.. your marriage.. that is, if you are both open minded and not simply looking for the therapist to validate your own positions.  You both have problems. You both need to make a change in how you perceive, receive, and communicate... and you need to make this change together.

One thing I can say with about 99.99999999 percent certainty is that the path you are currently marching along will not lead to a very happy place.  The pattern rarely changes by chance.  Take an active approach.  Go to a counselor alone at first if he will not go with you.  Even minor changes in very small areas can make major differences long term.

[Faux Pas]

Very good stuff there Dave

[Blues Fairy]

Superb advice, Daveman!  That's exactly what I'm thinking. 

[I/O]

I suggest a lighter vacuum cleaner, I'm still thinking that's the main problem. 

[Aloe]

I would be more than happy to go to a counselor, but he won't go, i already asked. And also i dont speak enough dutch to explain my feelings. And for some very very odd reason, doctors speak worst english of everybody around here, worse than anybody else i come across. Or it seems that way. I've met only one doctor who was fluent in english so far, and he was a radiologist. That is a very odd fact. I suppose most of the local population learns english from the TV (vast majority of TV channels is in english with dutch subtitles), perhaps doctors dont have so much time for the TV in their life?

[Aloe]

To clarify a few things, I'm not going to make any packed bags tests
I'm not thinking of divorcing, hopefully neither is he.
He only called me a bitch during that one argument, what i was emphasizing was that during that particular argument, he called me that many times right in the face. Honestly id forgotten all about that until somebody brought up name calling. So i think it's too early to speak of "emotional scars" from name calling. There is a lot more "scarring" from the 2 times i think he implied getting divorced as a threat, one of which was the subject of my other topic, where some say he didn't mean divorce at all. Sometimes i feel like im walking on a very very shaky bridge around here. One wrong step and you fall off. Thats not a very comfortable feeling.

[Aloe]

He isnt going to come on this forum, because his free time is reserved strictly for having fun, and writing/talking about feelings does not fall under that category. Thats part of the reason why he doesnt tell me when something is wrong and keeps it bottled up until explosion, because he doesnt wanna endanger his fun and relaxation at any time.

[Aloe]

I know im not painting a good picture of my husband here, but the purpose of this and other topics is to try to understand why he behaves the way he does, and how to try to change it a little? You won't describe a problem by saying how wonderful he is, because that's not a problem. He is a very good person but with a few quirks, like all of us here, and it's them i'm trying to figure out

[Shadow]

He isnt going to come on this forum, because his free time is reserved strictly for having fun, and writing/talking about feelings does not fall under that category. Thats part of the reason why he doesnt tell me when something is wrong and keeps it bottled up until explosion, because he doesnt wanna endanger his fun and relaxation at any time.

Does he do something for fun that involves getting rid of those feeling ? Thing is that by reserving his free time strictly for having fun" he is actually putting tension on himself to have fun and relax, which will often accomplish the opposite.
Your husband is used to find his way alone, and seems to have a wall around his emotions and thoughts. That is not something bad, however he has to learn to include you in this wall, and make you the only person who knows what is going on behind it.
You can help him by trying not to react strongly on negative news. Probably you are much more emotional than he is, and used to throw out anything you like or do not like on the spot. As his nature is exactly the opposite, you need to understand each other. He needs to know that your emotional reactions are not to disappoint or hurt him, while you need to understand he will just keep things to himself if every negative news causes a new outburst.