The Emancipated Housewife (and Traditional Values)

[I/O]

I used to know an American literary man, educated on the Continent, who married a woman because she had exceptional gifts in this department. Years later, at one of her dinners, a friend of her husband's tried to please her by mentioning the fact, to which he had always been privy. But instead of being complimented, as a man might have been if told that his wife had married him because he was a good lawyer, or surgeon, or carpenter, this unusual housekeeper, suffering a renaissance of usualness, denounced the guest as a liar, ordered him out of the house, and threatened to leave her husband.

The woman was justified. The revelation was why her husband married her (Nothing about her motives mentioned) and she blew her fuse as I suspect any woman would.

How many guys would be happy to hear their wife married them because he is a.................{you fill professional the gap}? It might actually be how it is but most won't like it. Boys ahuntin' abroad take note...............................

And.................what's changed in 100 years?

[Misha]

What's changed? According to a piece in today's Globe and Mail there are more women now in the work force now both in Canada and the United States. If there is a sole breadwinner in a family now it is now increasingly more likely to be a woman

[Misha]

In America, 2 generations ago, a wife working a job was helpful but not usually needed to make ends meet. 3 generations ago and prior, a working wife and mother was an oddity. It wasn't required to make ends meet and families were, by in large bigger then. A typical married couple had more children and less conveniences. Then, a woman's place was indeed in the home out of necessity.

Go back another generation or two and most women would have worked. If you had gone into one of the 19th century textile mills of New England, you would have seen entire families would have worked in the factories. Only the extremely young and the very old would not have worked.

[Doll]

So, what's the OP point?

[Voyager36]

I am not going for how she did it, I don't blame her for not accepting the very essence of what she heard. It was a doubtful appraisal. They didn't complimented her , they complimented her husband.
So I do not blame her at all.

Hmm yes, I could agree "I mainly married her for her wonderful cooking" is a pretty half-assed compliment.
However I would hope that she might have replied with a witty (perhaps sarcastic) remark to put him in his place, instead of throwing a tantrum.

[Doll]

People act the way they act. We don't know what her husband  said or why would she threaten to leave him.
Ok, we were not there, but to tell the woman that she married her husband because he was this or that professionally is rude and the reaction was reasonable.
When people tell me I am smart because I married my husband I no longer get mad- I pretend death.  I don't react, if they insist I only keep asking,"What did you say?" If they think I didn't understand what they say and say it again, I ask this "whatdidyousay" again, so they understand
I consider these talks rude and ignorant.

[Daveman]

People act the way they act. We don't know what her husband  said or why would she threaten to leave him.
Ok, we were not there, but to tell the woman that she married her husband because he was this or that professionally is rude and the reaction was reasonable.
When people tell me I am smart because I married my husband I no longer get mad- I pretend death.  I don't react, if they insist I only keep asking,"What did you say?" If they think I didn't understand what they say and say it again, I ask this "whatdidyousay" again, so they understand
I consider these talks rude and ignorant.

Ahhh, so you fall to the floor and pretend to stop breathing... do you clutch your chest and scream in agony first?  Or just drop like a stone?  Or some other dramatic fashion?   

[Doll]

Sorry- DEAF! hahaaaaa

[Jumper]

I do, so I would like to make it clear- AW don't "tell me to", they " tell me that".
See the difference?
Do I learn from them though? Absolutely. Actually I learn more from men  

ok, semantics Doll..

They tell you to "depend on men is risky"
or
they tell you that   "to depend on men is risky "


In either case it has little to do with them personally being independent or a self feeling of social relevance.
That is up to them to accomplish in whatever means they feel.
a confident woman who knows her independence or value , can easily also depend on someone .

someone insecure and needing to
"prove" their independence is not uncommon ,
but certainly doesn't make them any more socially relevant because they choose to
 pay their own bills.. instead of working as a partnership within the context of a family.

People of course can choose any direction ,and still be just as socially viable .

Those who fear losing their independence ,man or woman,are often the ones that are  insecure with themselves.

 To want to be independent  is   perfectly normal decision as an individual,
to fear being "looked at" as less of a person because of filling some more  traditional family role ..?  It is a silly fear ,, if you are a confident accomplished person ,as there are a million different ways to be constructive and very meaningful socially!

It is one thing to need to work , or to want to have a "meaningful" career..
most people do ,or at least hope to?
but to wear it as some red badge of courage , being *more* socially relevant?

[Doll]

ok, semantics Doll..

They tell you to "depend on men is risky"
or
they tell you that   "to depend on men is risky "
 

Phraseology
Ok, lets look at the language
your words are

The AW you speak with ,tell you to not trust AM?

See the difference? They don't TELL me to do or not to do anything, they just share which is "that". This "that" is just omitted in your

They tell you (that) to  "depend on men is risky"

[Doll]

To want to be independent  is   perfectly normal decision as an individual,
to fear being "looked at" as less of a person because of filling some more  traditional family role ..?

NO!You don't get it- this independence is the matter of security.
If a woman is independent then there is no fear to be abused or hurt.
Almost no fear.
The OP woman (who stays at home) can't just go because she doesn't like her husband (what ever the reason might be)- she depends on him totally.
If the wife is professional (which is money and something else) then she is free to stay or to go.
This is what my AW-friends and I are talking.

[XMan]

Having just read all the posts on this topic, I would like to ask a question.  

So what should a man think if a woman says she would like to have a child or children and stay home to "take care of family?"  

That she lacks intelligence?
That she lacks ambition?
That she just wants someone to "take care of her?"  
That she simply would like to stay home and watch TV, or lounge by the (in my case imaginary) pool?  
Should one assume it is a negative, a burden, a red flag?  

What if one takes it a step further and says this is a university graduate, someone who has worked and supported herself in the past?  

Is there the possibility that she actual does want to be a "stay-at-home mom?"
Or is it a ruse to get a man and milk him for whatever he is worth?
Is there a chance that a woman already feels comfortable enough and confident enough to choose what is now a less common path or role, without being concerned about being judged by others as incompetent or unworthy (since she does not have a "real career" outside the home)?
 
I do not in any way mean to imply disrespect here.  I am quite serious in my question(s).  

[Doll]

So what should a man think if a woman says she would like to have a child or children and stay home to "take care of family?"  

That she wants to have kids, stay home and take care for the family.
 Though, these  desires can change  

[Doll]

XMan, it all depends on who said, when, how old  the person is, where she is from and stuff.
You need to specify.

[XMan]

Well, I could give several examples from recent communication (several ladies over the past 2 years). 

How about:
1) 32, has 1 child, wants at least 1 more, 2 degrees, works 2 jobs currently, Ukraine.  (Don't know if that is enough information)
2) 34, no children, software engineer, Ukraine.  (Again, not sure if that is enough information to understand intent.)
3) 30, no children, doctor, likes medical research and may want to continue that "sometime in the future," Ukraine.
4) 31, 1 child, fitness instructor, Ukraine.

Many more said they would prefer to continue to work, but "family comes first" (a phrase I have seen or heard MANY times).

Thanks.

[SFandEE]

There are men on this board who communicate respect for women who choose to focus on committing their time to motherhood and creating a home atmosphere that fosters a good life for all members of her family.  Selflessness is  lovely quality, just as is independence.  For those who prefer independence to selflessness, perhaps their life will have a different path.  It will be theirs though--since they chose to have it.  Of course there is the concept of having it all too.  Don't see that in reality often, but it exists in theory.

I do not see how anyone could be correct or coming from a good place in challenging the respect these men communicate.  Data will not change the correctness--some people do what they do for love.  Analyze love.

[Doll]

Well, I could give several examples from recent communication (several ladies over the past 2 years). 

How about:
1) 32, has 1 child, wants at least 1 more, 2 degrees, works 2 jobs currently, Ukraine.  (Don't know if that is enough information)
2) 34, no children, software engineer, Ukraine.  (Again, not sure if that is enough information to understand intent.)
3) 30, no children, doctor, likes medical research and may want to continue that "sometime in the future," Ukraine.
4) 31, 1 child, fitness instructor, Ukraine.

Many more said they would prefer to continue to work, but "family comes first" (a phrase I have seen or heard MANY times).

Thanks.

Do all of them want kids with you? If they do, then they are thinking of some time to raise them. Remember? Women in FSU can stay home up till the kid is 3 years old.
Also, you yourself could let them know you wanted a stay home wife.
One thing is clear- they all are professional (which may change here  because of educational and language issues ).
I myself was going to have a relaxing life at home. Didn't happen, will never do.

[Doll]

SFandEE, how long this motherhood? 3 years, 7, 12, 21? I mean the age of the kids.

[SFandEE]

SFandEE, how long this motherhood? 3 years, 7, 12, 21? I mean the age of the kids.

Motherhood is an amazing leap of faith and love.  Not a contractual obligation with an end date.  Perhaps the child has special needs and will require her daily care for the rest of her life.  I imagine this is a problem for some women.  I know women for whom this is not a problem.

They are happy too!

[Doll]

Motherhood is an amazing leap of faith and love.  Not a contractual obligation with an end date.  Perhaps the child has special needs and will require her daily care for the rest of her life.  I imagine this is a problem for some women.  I know women for whom this is not a problem.

They are happy too!

ok
I know the woman- she is a bank teller, we talk quite often. She has a daughter who is disabled (really- it is a wheel chair since she was born), 19 years old ( the daughter). Her dad left them when the girl was 6.
I am not telling you the story of this woman's life, but how about an amazing leap of faith and love? Guess how many jobs she has (the mother).
My friend (next door) was raising 2 boys when her husband filed for the divorce.
So how about leap of faith? She has to work days and nights.
Both women are born Americans with parents, friends and everything that born Americans can get from the government(unlike we, RW).

[SFandEE]

Analyze love.

You offer or request data.  The approach of an accountant.

Perhaps you advocate abandonment to an orphanage to resolve the data problems, but then she might have a broken heart.

[Doll]

Analyze love.

You offer or request data.  The approach of an accountant.

Perhaps you advocate abandonment to an orphanage to resolve the data problems, but then she might have a broken heart.

Who "she"?

[Doll]

Analyze love.

I actually did. What was the result? In my firm opinion, men, especially American like strong women which means "a professional woman who makes money".
They can say anything, but this is how it really is.
Otherwise this is (can be) the love for a pet (or a cook, or a cleaning lady).
Look at the rate of divorces. Any thoughts?

[SFandEE]

Who "she"?

She is the woman in the first part of the sentence who would choose to solve her financial/work problems by sending her handicapped child to an orphanage or the care of businesspeople or government workers.

[Doll]

She is the woman in the first part of the sentence who would choose to solve her financial/work problems by sending her handicapped child to an orphanage or the care of businesspeople or government workers.

Ok
I am not advocating the abandonment, no way. My kids are my life, I really mean  it. Will never ever put myself before them. This woman raised the girl, she has just graduated from high school. Good for her (them).
This is a real motherhood, so are we still talking of staying home?
No, we are not.