The Emancipated Housewife (and Traditional Values)

[SFandEE]

I actually did. What was the result? In my firm opinion, men, especially American like strong women which means "a professional woman who makes money".
They can say anything, but this is how it really is.
Otherwise this is (can be) the love for a pet (or a cook, or a cleaning lady).
Look at the rate of divorces. Any thoughts?

Love of a woman for her child and her family.    Not love of money or power.

Several American men have tried to communicate on this thread respect for a woman who chooses motherhood and you post comments challenging their statements and usually refer to the need for the woman to have her own money.   :usdeyes:

[Velena]

Here we go again, a lot of noise about nothing. To work or not to work......the answer depends on personal circumstances.  

[Doll]

Love of a woman for her child and her family.   Not love of money or power.

Oh! This is my favorite subject!
So, my beloved son (sons) don't eat or wear clothing? Or this stuff is free in the stores to the "truly loving" mothers?
 

[Doll]

Several American men have tried to communicate on this thread respect for a woman who chooses motherhood and you post comments challenging their statements and usually refer to the need for the woman to have her own money.   USD Eyes

Am I not supposed to challenge American men's posts?
Come, do you know what may "hide" behind this respect?
You sure do. The power over another person.

[SFandEE]

Advice has been given that your personal circumstances are not for public comment.

[Daveman]

Am I not supposed to challenge American men's posts?
Come, do you know what may "hide" behind this respect?
You sure do. The power over another person.

Of course you can. But, why must there be something 'wrong' about a woman or relationship if she desires to be a homemaker?  How in the world is the man holding her back if that is really her desire?  Should he punt her butt out the door and demand she goes to work just so she can have her 'own money'?   At any rate, to disparage a woman or a relationship because the woman is a homemaker by her own choice is just ludicrous.  

The choice should be up to the woman to do whatever fulfills her in this life.  

What if she wants to be a homemaker when she marries, but later changes her mind and wants to pursue a career?  What about the opposite?

Personally, I just want a woman who "pretends death" whenever something crosses her.  God that mental image was hilarious.  And a flat head to hold the beer... and huge cleavage for the remote.

[Doll]

Advice has been given that your personal circumstances are not for public comment.

I am not talking of my personal circumstances. Thanks for the advice though.

[Doll]

   Should he punt her butt out the door and demand she goes to work just so she can have her 'own money'?

No

[Doll]

God that mental image was hilarious.

Sorry- I am between packing and talking

[SFandEE]

Am I not supposed to challenge American men's posts?
Come, do you know what may "hide" behind this respect?
You sure do. The power over another person.

You continue to question motive.  This is personal.  Your assumption is that if a man respects his wife's desire to make family and home her priority or seeks a woman who has this desire he is seeking power over her.

This is your personal stuff.

[pitbull]

The choice should be up to the woman to do whatever fulfills her in this life.  

What if she wants to be a homemaker when she marries, but later changes her mind and wants to pursue a career?  What about the opposite?

I believe that there are so many different situations as to whether a woman works or doesn't.

However I don't agree that to work or not to work should be up to a woman. It should be up to what would be best for the family in given circumstances. Both husband and wife should very well understand the consequences of this decision for the family.

Personally I believe in equal partnership. I do not believe it is fare to have the man bear 100% financial responsibility for the well-being of the family. This is too stressful ans risky and getting less and less possible with the state of economy.

Anyone can stay home and be a "homemaker". This is basically unskilled routine that doesn't require education or training. On the other hand how many "professional homemaker wives" can step up and support the family in case the working husband loses his job/becomes sick etc.? Also fatherhood is as important as motherhood. A father cannot be pregnant, give birth and breastfeed. He can do everything else as well or better than a mother.

I really don't believe in "traditional" women's and men's roles in contemporary society. Both should be able to step up the plate big way. Family is a team effort and it is crucial that both partners are flexible.

[XMan]

Do all of them want kids with you? If they do, then they are thinking of some time to raise them. Remember? Women in FSU can stay home up till the kid is 3 years old.
Also, you yourself could let them know you wanted a stay home wife.
One thing is clear- they all are professional (which may change here  because of educational and language issues ).
I myself was going to have a relaxing life at home. Didn't happen, will never do.

All of them expressed a desire to have children and to stay home. 
As far as going back to work afterward (for example, when a child began school), each expressed a somewhat different level of interest.  I got the impression in a couple of cases that they were expressing an interest in returning to work because they thought that is what I wanted to hear.

My response was that anything was possible, and I agreed that staying home until a child was school age was a wise thing to do.  Also, that family finances would be improved, of course, if 2 people were working, since I am unfortunately not independently wealthy. 

A doctor, or other professional, would have to become accomplished in English to the point where she could return to school to be able to become a professional in the USA.  That would also require time and money, so I made certain that we discussed that as well.

[Misha]

Love of a woman for her child and her family.    Not love of money or power.

Several American men have tried to communicate on this thread respect for a woman who chooses motherhood and you post comments challenging their statements and usually refer to the need for the woman to have her own money.   :usdeyes:

It is not just about the money, though extra money never hurts. It is also about women wanting to feel accomplished and have a sense of achieving something outside of the family. There is also the fact that for many women staying at home will become quite dull. If a woman does not have a social network of other moms who stay at home, it could get get quite dreary quite quickly staying at home all day, and this is compounded if there are no children or the children are already at school. When this happen, the woman is likely to start bringing up the idea that she feels like a bird trapped in a gilded cage. 

[Doll]

XMan , they don't know the reality, neither do you. To be a doctor here is very hard for the immigrants.

[SFandEE]

It is not just about the money, though extra money never hurts. It is also about women wanting to feel accomplished and have a sense of achieving something outside of the family. There is also the fact that for many women staying at home will become quite dull. If a woman does not have a social network of other moms who stay at home, it could get get quite dreary quite quickly staying at home all day, and this is compounded if there are no children or the children are already at school. When this happen, the woman is likely to start bringing up the idea that she feels like a bird trapped in a gilded cage.  

Two things.

The discussion has seemed to be directed to questioning the motives of a man who respects or seeks out a woman who desires to primarily focus on creating a home for her family and motherhood.  Not outsourcing those "menial chores" to hired help.  This is where a woman might fulfill herself to work essentially enough to pay for hired help to take care of her home and her children.  If she finds a man who wants that fine--just be honest about what you are about.

The fulfillment question is another thread/topic.  Community service, quality friends (not whiney company over cocktails or coffee), and being part of an extended family are all consistent with a commitment to family and also can be highly fulfilling.  Getting paid money seems to be the real need for those who are questioning motives.

Should a man work a non-fulfilling job if the income is supportive of his family?  Many, many times this is done and because there is money given it is observed as rewarding.  Maybe there are some bad jobs out there that pay well because the guy is good at it and he does it because it meets his family's needs and doing this unrewarding work allows him to be the kind of provider to which he aspires.  Should he quit that job and work at the ice cream parlor counter because he loves to see happy faces all day!

[Misha]

Community service, quality friends (not whiney company over cocktails or coffee), and being part of an extended family are all consistent with a commitment to family and also can be highly fulfilling. Getting paid money seems to be the real need for those who are questioning motives.

Then, I have to ask, why are you seeking a woman from the FSU? Her extended family will be thousands of miles away. Community service is challenging at first if you are not a native speaker of English and trust me it is not that easy for a woman to make quality friends when moving to a new country. I will question the motives as they are not realistic IMHO. If you truly want the kind of family you are describing, you would be much better off finding a very traditional religious woman in the United States as she is more likely to want what you idealize and she will have the language, cultural background and social networks to really be able to lead a happy, satisfying life as you describe.

[SFandEE]

Then, I have to ask, why are you seeking a woman from the FSU? Her extended family will be thousands of miles away. Community service is challenging at first if you are not a native speaker of English and trust me it is not that easy for a woman to make quality friends when moving to a new country. I will question the motives as they are not realistic IMHO. If you truly want the kind of family you are describing, you would be much better off finding a very traditional religious woman in the United States as she is more likely to want what you idealize and she will have the language, cultural background and social networks to really be able to lead a happy, satisfying life as you describe.

I avoid personal conversations--since I don't want want input from everyone on this board.  My motives are fine and extended family is not just her family and there are plenty of RW and UW who have family join them as well.  So dissecting each point and finding an exception does not mean that a woman cannot find fulfillment in ways other than making money.

My efforts are not exclusive to FSU.  I will trust and confirm that RW/UW will not lie to me about their motives for family and coming to US to be with me.

I will pass on the advice--no thank you.

[Gylden]

The whole bit about emancipation is about the control over another person.

IMO this includes women who belittle other women for the desire to be a housewife/mother.

I know of a few women, who control their husbands.

I know of men who badger other men, about who is the man in their family.

[Misha]

I will trust and confirm that RW/UW will not lie to me about their motives for family and coming to US to be with me.

It is not even a question of lying. My wife also thought that it would be nice to stay at home and not work. That lasted a couple of months and she was very happy to go to school and work when she had a chance. Simply put, a woman may truly believe one thing before marriage and have a change of heart once in her new country.

[Boethius]

Yes, Misha, but your wife doesn't have a child.   A parent home with children is working.

[XMan]

XMan , they don't know the reality, neither do you. To be a doctor here is very hard for the immigrants.

Actually, I did take time to research it.  It's incredibly involved, requiring a lot of steps, courses, tests, etc., etc.  
It would be a huge undertaking, and that is how I responded to her.  For someone who has already gone through medical school, would she really want to repeat a lot of that experience, and in her non-native language?  I don't know.  Seems extraordinarily challenging to me.

[SFandEE]

I will question the motives as they are not realistic IMHO. If you truly want the kind of family you are describing, you would be much better off finding a very traditional religious woman in the United States as she is more likely to want what you idealize and she will have the language, cultural background and social networks to really be able to lead a happy, satisfying life as you describe.

My desires have not been expressed.  No need to question motives without a position. I am defending against people who are critical and question the motives and ability to have a fulfilling life without getting paid to work outside of the home for money.  Perhaps these detractors would be satisfied with a salary to be a mother, hours from 8 to 5, health insurance, and three weeks vacation.  I am glad it is not me who has to worry about whether or not such a person is happy.

I find it wrong to question the  motives of people who may be happy doing roles that are more strongly defined.  In a strong relationship there would be sacrifice by both and also opportunities for change--but not dramatic turn on a dime pronouncements of "I'm not happy!" or "I'm not fulfilled".

There are so many RW/UW here in the US that are parts of their community and if getting paid to do a job helps them feel more of that community I think that is just fine.  I just don't see how a paycheck makes the difference in leading a fulfilling life.  I do see how having a quality family life leads to a fulfilling life.  I do see that money gives them the freedom to leave their family commitments for individual desires.  Is that what this is about--RW and UW need an escape plan?

Do these same women see the money provided by the man as his money, even if it is money used for family expenses?  Or are those his responsibilities and her money can be used freely on herself and his money is for the family?

I sense this is just a protracted conversation that is going nowhere.  I am not trying to convince you that you should live a different way or give advice--why do you guys give unasked for advice?  Just leave a man and woman who have decided to be happy building a life the way the choose to build it alone.  Try not to insult her or question his motives.  Maybe they are happy.  Good for them.

[Velena]

Life in US seems to be so hard! Hard to get visa, hard to find decent job, hard to find a good partner........... I wonder why so many Russian women want to move there. Things are much easier in UK!  

[Misha]

Yes, Misha, but your wife doesn't have a child.   A parent home with children is working.

Yes, but even then the children will eventually go to school and she will spending most of the day home alone. Also, she may decide that the logical decision is to have her parents come and live with them to take care of the children A woman has a right to change her mind.

[SANDRO43]

Life in US seems to be so hard! Hard to get visa, hard to find decent job, hard to find a good partner...Things are much easier in UK!  

On all counts - visas, jobs, partners ?