The Emancipated Housewife (and Traditional Values)

[BC]

On all counts - visas, jobs, partners ?

Based on my last trip there (and has been a while), as far as partners go bez problem..

I went out with a business partner and posed as an Italian that could not speak English... took about 5 mins in a bar for a woman to state that she wouldn't hesitate to 'boink'...

UK is a fun place, but yes.. lacking Slavic looks.  Just turn the light out and you'll be fine.

Breakfast sucks.

[Velena]

I should probably go to the bar more often rather then to look for the love of my life on the internet! As far as visa and work  concern no complains at all.

[BC]

I should probably go to the bar more often rather then to look for the love of my life on the internet! As far as visa and work  concern no complains at all.

Velena,

Yes, don't let the Internet limit your choice.  The world is much bigger than your keyboard.

[Jumper]

Doll-
lol ..
i get it ,certainly as much as you do.
the"that" is still semantics dear teacher.

"risky to depend on" is what we are REALLY talking about.
that is what i was pointing out.  

 They feel a completely understandable need to be established first ,, or in a good job.
but what is the primary reason for having this need?
self validation?
a fear of dependency on anyone ?
a fear to rely on?
if confident in their own abilities no need for this "worry" or validation!
while it can be a confident person,  it is generally not born of confidence.

You think i've never known a confident ,*independent* women in my life?
you truly amuse me sometimes..

I certainly respect them.. and generally that is my *type*..
the key is  I don't find an independent minded person any different if they choose one of several roles to play in any given family situation.
It's a personality or character trait,not a situation.  

My grandmother couldn't have possibly been more independently minded or of independent character.Yet she did not work in the workplace.
Dollushka , just imagine ,she was well educated, of the strongest character ,both mentally and emotionmally , and simply did not feel the NEED to somehow validate herself by having a workforce career.  Why is this concept so alien to you?

They (AM) can say anything, but this is how it really is.
Otherwise this is (can be) the love for a pet (or a cook, or a cleaning lady).

Nostrodollmous,
i know you love a good debate..
but why tell "how it is"
on such a subject?
It is very presumptive.

There is a LOT of ground between a man having equal respect for  a woman in either role.. (or both)
or him only wanting a *pet* or cleaning lady. .

That is just ridiculous.

Did it every cross your mind that a man may love a woman for who she is,her personility ,her  character? She can have completely independent mind, and character ,
and choose one of millions of career paths, inclusive of being a mother/ housekeeper.
 As you well know , she may ,and probably will change these roles  during their years together..
So if the mans respect, is based on her path on a given day..
instead of on the person she is ,they don't have much do they?

Listen ,if your husband did not really respect a *stay at home mother* ,that's  him,
obviously he made comments you did not appreciate,and yes  others may share his view!
 also many will not share it!
There is no "how it is" on such a subject.

It is individuals ,and individual situations.
so the feeling and genuine thoughts on such a subject will vary widely,and are correct for each.

You perhaps will tell me ,and other posters,
how we really feel about some other subjects as well?
too funny!!

How about  a dose of reality ..?
I  feel the same level of respect for a stay at home mother ,
as for one working, it is respect for the PERSON,who they are,  not the situation.

I  would respect my wife's choice in either direction,
and have in the past.In both scenarios.

I'm neither exception, or the norm, but many men feel as I do.
You can choose to actually accept that ,
 or keep debating about which you can't know of certainty , to somehow prove you know how others actually feel.  

[acctBill]

Life in US seems to be so hard! Hard to get visa, hard to find decent job, hard to find a good partner........... I wonder why so many Russian women want to move there. Things are much easier in UK!  

Velena I don't know how many Russian women want to move to the US but I know from personal experience that there are a lot of Russian women in the UK.  When my wife and I lived in London we were always running into a Russian woman or man working in a shop or while out for dinner hearing Russian spoken in a restaurant or bar. Even my daughter would comment on the number of Russian children in her school or that she met on outings.  Unfortunately Canada doesn't seem to have anywhere near as many.

[Misha]

I should probably go to the bar more often rather then to look for the love of my life on the internet!

Do you really think the men will be better in a bar? As everywhere you will have jerks, married men looking for adventure, narcissists and every other type of man as you would find on the net.

[Doll]

The discussion has seemed to be directed to questioning the motives of a man who respects or seeks out a woman who desires to primarily focus on creating a home for her family and motherhood.

Is this thread about men's motives? I read the OP over.

[Misha]

The "original post" was published in 1922 based on what I found on Google Books

[Doll]

what is the primary reason for having this need?
self validation?
a fear of dependency on anyone ?
a fear to rely on?

All above which is called SECURITY

[Doll]

The "original post" was published in 1922 based on what I found on Google Books

yeah, I know, but I don't see how it is about just men's point of view

[Doll]

AJ and guys, how do you define "respect for the wife to stay home"?
What exactly do you  mean?

[SFandEE]

Motive challenge

Am I not supposed to challenge American men's posts?
Come, do you know what may "hide" behind this respect?
You sure do. The power over another person.

Personal stuff assigned to others.  A lot of fear.  Some of us are suggesting this is not universal.

NO!You don't get it- this independence is the matter of security.
If a woman is independent then there is no fear to be abused or hurt.
Almost no fear.
The OP woman (who stays at home) can't just go because she doesn't like her husband (what ever the reason might be)- she depends on him totally.
If the wife is professional (which is money and something else) then she is free to stay or to go.
This is what my AW-friends and I are talking.

When suggested to analyze love--you actually did!  For all of us!

I actually did. What was the result? In my firm opinion, men, especially American like strong women which means "a professional woman who makes money".
They can say anything, but this is how it really is.
Otherwise this is (can be) the love for a pet (or a cook, or a cleaning lady).
Look at the rate of divorces. Any thoughts?

Your most recent question is one more example of an accountant approach to love and marriage.  Scorekeeping.

Since this is not something you respect on its' own, you challenge the motives of others.  The problem is I have seen people live happy, fulfilling lives in this manner.  You advocate for an escape plan for when things get tough.  They took the adventure and enjoyed the ride.

By the time this response has been put together and posted there are likely a few new posts. I don't think you are asking questions for interest.  Feels more like trying to build a case.  If you don't hear but one thing, please hear this--don't assign your issues to others.  There are people living a life with happiness that you insist is not fulfilling.  

[SomeGuy]

I actually did. What was the result? In my firm opinion, men, especially American like strong women which means "a professional woman who makes money".
They can say anything, but this is how it really is.
Otherwise this is (can be) the love for a pet (or a cook, or a cleaning lady).
Look at the rate of divorces. Any thoughts?

Do you believe that someone is only strong as measured by how much money they make?  I hope not.
The two are not synonymous in my book.  

What were you suggesting about the rate of divorce, which is quite high in many places?
Someone might believe it is because both people over time became more focused on themselves, instead of the relationship and working as a team.
I'm not sure that has anything at all to do with a professional making money, nor in strong or weak men or women.

[Doll]

I'm not sure that has anything at all to do with a professional making money, nor in strong or weak men or women.

If we look at the chance of a woman in the case of divorce, then who is in a better situation- a housewife (ex) or   a professional woman? Lets say she is 35, 40, 50.
At 40 to enter the job market with no skills or experience is close to impossible.
A cashier or a cleaning lady? Which is what- $7-8  per hour? Or all the ex-housewives are well provided after the divorce?
Look, ok, Doll is saying nonsense  , but have you ever read the financial advice to women? 

[Jumper]

Doll ,
how do you want to  define respect?

You *seem* to be searching for some way to change what I stated,  reinterpret it , or redefine it.

 I can't make it any clearer ,
whether man or woman , I respect the person that they are ,their integrity ,character, personality.
It simply is not based on the position, or career,  they choose.
 
 I do completely understand a women wishing for self security and independence..

This is  a bit different than the woman saying *that* it is risky to depend on  AM..
of course they are correct?as it is *risky* to trust anyone but yourself 

You won't seem to  acknowledge it , but depending on someone else for certain things within the family context,  takes its own brand of a confidence ,a certain courage that you seem determined to portray as something else.

No one said the homemaker couldn't already be an established person , who has a career to fall back on if they choose?
No one said they need to give up their career at all?

For myself, I simply stated I  respect either choice , equally.

and you surely do not think that I agree with all the thoughts in a book written in the culture of the 1920's! ???

Have fun in Russia!
Instead of wasting time posting here ,find me  a good girl! 

I'm too busy cleaning house and cooking to look!   

[Doll]

AJ, I don't think you need to "read my mind", say something that I "might think", ok?
Not sure if "Doll won't acknowledge" or  "Doll seem to be searching" is what you say about another person unless you're a psychic.
Thanks!
 

[Doll]

Instead of wasting time posting here

I find it very rude. I do forgive you  but no girls then, you're in time out