Could I get your opinions on this? Could this be a scammer?

[baldhiker]

Well, gents. I set up a time yesterday to call her, tried at least six times to get through, one using the international operator's assistance, and no answer. I sent her (him? them?) a message today saying so long, and don't let the door hit you in the ass. Oh, well, onwards!

[Gator]

Well, gents. I set up a time yesterday to call her, tried at least six times to get through, one using the international operator's assistance, and no answer. I sent her (him? them?) a message today saying so long, and don't let the door hit you in the ass. Oh, well, onwards!

Hiker,

Good decision.  This adventure is difficult enough with good communications.

Do you have the bug now?  If so, we can direct you to more reputable agencies and successful approaches.

[Faux Pas]

Well, gents. I set up a time yesterday to call her, tried at least six times to get through, one using the international operator's assistance, and no answer. I sent her (him? them?) a message today saying so long, and don't let the door hit you in the ass. Oh, well, onwards!

baldhiker, thats too bad and I hate it for you. Before the experts on telecommunications chime in and decry it's bad lines, bad systems, bad equipment, bad timing, bad breath, you should keep trying. I think you made the right move. Not only does it put you one step closer to reality, you'll quit wasting your time on a woman who doesn't wish to speak with you. If in fact she was a woman at all. If you question your own move here just ask yourself, what would you have done to a local woman who did the same thing?

[Jumper]

Well I would certainly not say he should keep trying.lol
This smelled bad from other reasons than just the missed calls,and add them together
it's was time to bail....

overall it isn't if you can't get thru in a few attempts ,
as problems  can and do happen . (right now i'd say about 2 out of 3 mobile calls go thru to a mobile ,with sms being more reliable  )

The real issue is if  the other person WANTS to contact you ,then it will happen.
they will be proactive about it too,
they will be disappointed and make a real attempt for another time, or tell you  call any reasonable hour that you can get through.

In this case, you had your answer.



but for just a bit of advise ,  any real scammer ,worth a kopek,
would have followed through here.
even if its Yuri, he  can easily find a local dev to answer the cell *at some pre designated time*
 Honestly to me it's more strange that some chickskaya did NOT answer.

*I* could easily have arranged some girl to answer that call ..
 So i'm pretty sure a local  *entrepreneur*  in lungansk could.
and you have to keep in mind if their intent was a WU..
(for travel emergency or whatever came "up")
then it has to be sent to a name, and likely you arn't going to fall for a mans name..
so a real scammer has the loose ends covered.
To me, they way it played out . this was either someone
just not that into you , a *soft* scam ,
or a not very talented scammer.

 In the future i'd advise to just keep an open mind ,and open eyes, like you did,
but with no need to be paranoid about it at all.

you wern't going to send money anyway ,so no need to worry.
If you have 3 months of pretty decent contact ,
it should graduate to  the phone often and likely be able to tell a lot by how open and timely that  communication is.
(just like in this case)
 

Good luck!

[daveyj]

Well, gents. I set up a time yesterday to call her, tried at least six times to get through, one using the international operator's assistance, and no answer. I sent her (him? them?) a message today saying so long, and don't let the door hit you in the ass. Oh, well, onwards!

Baldhiker, a question for you...

You say above the "I set up a time yesterday to call her...".  Did you and her mutually agree on the time, or did you unilaterally advise you were going to call at a specific time.  And also, I'd be curious to know exactly what you wrote in your final email to her.  Did you actually say "don't let the door hit you in the ass"??

Not accusing, just asking.

[GQBlues]

Well, gents. I set up a time yesterday to call her, tried at least six times to get through, one using the international operator's assistance, and no answer. I sent her (him? them?) a message today saying so long, and don't let the door hit you in the ass. Oh, well, onwards!

LOL. FWIW, I'm with Davey on one aspect of your post. Did she even acknowledge receiving your email when you set-up the time or did you just assumed she did?

Anyway, scammer is as scammer does. No harm, no foul....

I do have my reservation about this whole check-up on her business, man. That's as creepy as that silly secret profile special. That was a dandy! It all smacks of someone who's likely to stick a Lo-Jack up his GF's popka just so he can track her butt by satellite when they're apart. One can only hope that the beeping beacon isn't sending loud audible signals too as it can certainly be too darn embarrassing, yah kno'.

Is common sense isn't as common as it used to be?

[baldhiker]

Here's what I'd sent her this weekend (below) and here was her reply;

Jack, dear, why are so angry, please, i am sorry but in fact i have nopthing for what i need to apologize.
Dear, you know Friday was my first day of job in the cafe where i was an animatpr for kids (I didn't know about this, she sent me an e-mail that really didn't make sense to me), i ahd 6 kids from the age of 2 till 6 and i was with them, that wa sstressful , i didn't have my phone next to em, and on weekend i was workign , and returned just now.
Jack, please, why are you so cruel to me. if you knew my life ehre, you would forgive me, and understand everything.
Please, write to me soon again, i need your news.
Jana



Sat, 19 Jun 2010 12:28:24 -0700 (PDT) письмо от Jack Keenan <jack_knn@yahoo.com>:

>
>
> I tried calling you on Friday, June 18, between 7-8 p.m. your time. I even asked the international operator to try and put me through,because Icould get no response. I am no longer interested in speaking to you, or communicating via e-mail. Do not contact me again.
>
> Jack


I honestly don't know what to make of this. If I was mistaken and she's on the level, then I've hurt her and that makes me feel pretty badly. Any advice?

[facetrock]

  You didnt hurt her/him. I think it was Gator who said this is hard enough with communication. Its hopeless without it. If this woman is real which I doubt and was interested in you, you would have been chatting away on the phone for hours by now.
  I like the part about having to take care of little kids. Scammers love to play on your emotions.
Real or not forget about her and find someone who actually will communicate with you.
I have chatted with women from the FSU online and within an hour have had them on the phone. Most women prefer using a phone or skype. They really dont like typing or sending emails in English since its not their first language.
Time to move on.

[daveyj]

Consider if this was an American lady living in another town.  After several months of pleasant email correspondence a man emails her announcing he will call her at a specific time (presumably without her prior agreement?).  He then calls her 6 times, and when she doesn't answer he writes here the her the email as above and tells her to never contact him again.

In this scenario, I think most of us would agree the man is behaving somewhat churlishly?

I think you've alllowed the scamhunting mentality of the board to poison your perspective of her.  If she was a scammer, she would have asked for money a long time ago.  And $30/daily for a place in Yalta is a bargain basement price.

Maybe she is an incompetant scammer, or maybe she is just a woman corresponding with a white knight from a a foreign country and is a little scared by the whole process or is simply having doubts.  You are the man, and it is your job to place her fears ahead of your own and act appropriately to address her concerns.

If it was me? Having invested 3 months of emotional time, I would treat her like a lady until such time as she actively does something concrete to deserve otherwise.  I would email her and explain that a friend of yours (aka the board) told you horror stories about unscrupulous FSU women who deceive romantic western men, and that you were frustrusted and hurt because you weren't able to speak to her on the phone when you have so much interest in learning more about her.  As her if you can put this behind you, and ask her to suggest a time you can call.  If the call goes well, then perhaps consider sending her some flowers afterwards.

Scammers are obvious.   They don't email with you for 3 months without asking for money.  If this is a scammer, then he/she will make themselves obvious in very short order as you talk (or don't) on the phone.  But consider that you may have false accused an innocent lady. 
my 2 cents.

[baldhiker]

Exactly my thoughts. I treated this person badly and I feel like an ass for doing so. I think it's time to do some damage control. Even if this doesn't work out to be a long term thing, I still don't have the right to treat someone this way if they're completely innocent.

[facetrock]

  Dayeyj. In this day and age of Skype and cheap phone cards I cant imagine a woman that was really interested in a guy communicating by email for 3 months would not be delighted to hear the guys voice. I really cant fathom it or believe it.
  Even if she isnt a scammer, and dont ever think they cant be patient, it just isnt worth the time and game playing excuses not to be able to talk to her on the phone. Also the bad connection excuses are crap. Maybe five years ago that was a problem but today the connections are very good. Maybe some of the Stan's can be a problem but not Russia and Ukraine.
  As far as emailing an American woman for 3 months and still not able to call her. Screw that too. As far as an FSU woman being away from their cell phone. That hasnt happened to any FSU women in years!!!
We will have to agree to disagree here.

[daveyj]

  Also the bad connection excuses are crap.

Sure. No harm in agreeing to disagree.  But wrt the connection problems, I call Kiev 2-3 times a week.  My experience is that it usually takes an average of 3 dials for me to get a ring tone (the other two just stay dead).  And further, 1 out of every 3 connected calls has connection problems and I need to redial.

[facetrock]

  Baldhiker. Some good advice for you. Dont get emotionaly involved with your penfriend because thats all you really are.
You dont owe this woman any apology. You've been more patient than anyone I know. After three months of emailing you want to take it to the next level. If she doesnt want to she really isnt interested in you or has another agenda.
  Its time for her to either sh1t or get off the pot

[Gylden]

Well, I know I could be way off base here, but FWIW I would like to say that when I was "dating" my wife, I had plenty of trouble getting through to her on the phone, both mobil and land telephone.

[Gator]

Baldhiker,

Baldhiker, you are nice man, perhaps too nice in that:

1.  The agency hype is that RW want a nice man above all else; appearance, money and age do not matter.  That is buuuuulsheeeeet.   And the problem is that nice  guys believe that line.

2.  Nice guys also fall for the "white knight" trap - rescuing a young desperate woman from a terrible life in Ukraine.   Most of the UW/RW have a life worse than yours, yet most will not use that as as angle to get you.  Most have pride and will not admit their plight until you really know them (as in spending time together).

3.  Nice guys are the frequent targets of scammers.

Let's forget the nice guy part for now and concentrate on her.  

IMO it is a 25% chance at best that she is sincere.  I say only 25% because:

1.  She is 20 years younger than you and she wrote  you first.  It happens in the FSU (even in the US - last week I had a date with an attractive, intelligent, decent income AW 20 years my junior who wrote me first, and she wants to see me again and calls me frequently).  Only you can answer whether you and this UW are a reasonable match.  1-2 steps above what you usually date in America is okay, but not 3-4 steps.

2.  The lack of phone contact is plausible yet concerns me for all the mentioned reasons.  I have not heard your explanation whether she suggested the 7-8 pm.  If her, she is unreliable (and I already mentioned above that she could be a "no show").  "I didnt have my phone next to me" is inexcusable.


Because she wrote you a decent letter, you can write her again.  Do not apologize, yet explain your reasons.

Remind her that communication is a two-way street.  Stress that emailing is not your preferred way of communicating.  You want to talk on the phone frequently.

Give her one more chance.  List 3 optional times for her to choose when you will try to call her.  If you do manage to call her, let her  do most of the talking.

You still have a long way to go before deciding to meet her.  Good luck. 

If she gets tossed, do you plan to contact other RW?

[Misha]

The last few times that we tried to call,we would not get an answer. This last time, after Anastassia tried to call, I made the call. For some unknown reason, Anastassia's call would not go through, but my call did. So this could be some kind of problem with the phone system.

My wife and I have noticed that the phone connections to Russia (outside of Moscow) are getting progressively worse. Sometimes, we have to call for a week or more until we actually get through  And, we try to call cell phones, different phone numbers (various friends and family) and nothing goes through...

[Gator]

I call Chelyabinsk, Ekaterinburg, Moscow and Arkangelsk frequently.  I say that 90% of my calls go through on the first attempt.  And I use a cheap calling card.

[baldhiker]

Thanks, Gator. I'm just sitting here feeling lousy about this, and I probably shouldn't. I'll use your advice and suggest three or four times we should talk. I was actually the one who suggested the time slot on Friday, and checked my e-mails beforehand to see if she'd replied that wouldn't be good for her (which she didn't). This is all new to me, so my first thought when I couldn't reach her was "Done".

[Gylden]

It is OK to feel lousy, this is one of the pit falls of these kinds of relationships. The uncertainty of things beyond your control, can and will provide stumbling blocks along the way.  Even if she was legit, from your description it very well could be that it wouldn't have worked out in the long run and a much more invested "bad feeling" was potentially avoided.

[Gator]

I was actually the one who suggested the time slot on Friday, and checked my e-mails beforehand to see if she'd replied that wouldn't be good for her (which she didn't). This is all new to me, so my first thought when I couldn't reach her was "Done".

Ah ha!  Davej was insightful with his question:

You say above the "I set up a time yesterday to call her...".  Did you and her mutually agree on the time, or did you unilaterally advise you were going to call at a specific time.

With this new information, you should apologize.  But not because you feel lousy, but because she may be a sincere woman.  Considering your strong email to her, most RW would feel insulted and would delete and forget you.  So you may have a good one, good as in well adjusted.  An animator for children sounds more interesting than a cashier at the equivalent of Walmart.  Yes, you may have something.

How to salvage it?  Explain that you are a decisive man (RW respect strong, decisive men) and you thought she was not reliable.  Add that you want a reliable woman because you are reliable.  Then apologize with an  explanation that you are new at this and thought communication would be easier.    Conclude with, "The past is past, and let us move forward as if this never happened." 

[Shadow]

Baldhiker, I would agree with people that you have been treating her with a bit of paranoia.

However.
If she is 20 years younger than you and looking well enough for you to want to see her, than after receiving such a mail from you there are two options.

1. You are God's gift to women. Looks must be a mix of Johnny Depp, George Clooney and Brad Pitt, and a bank account that matches all three of them together.

2. She has plans to make sure at least that bank account of yours will not be as big soon.

If you would write such a mail to a "standard" RW, you would with a large certainty never get any reply. If you would get one, it would probably contain a number of Russian words that online translators do not offer.

Move on, and do not feel bad.

[tim 360]

baldhiker don't feel guilty.  You've been emailing this lady for 3 months and can't get a phone call through to her.  Something is amiss here.  I've only had a hanful of times, like less than 10% where I would make a call and not get through.  But, 15 minutes or 30 minutes later--no problem.  And most people there tell me they do have phone problems sometimes.  But not your sort of problems.  So I have been late a few times with a call at a certain time but never a strike-out.  This is also with a cheap calling card and even to small cities in Ukraine with a population of only 20K.  Also,  many times they have called me without any pre-set times and we talk for 20 minutes.  This is from small, larger and big cities so, to me this whole phone thing sounds strange.

To me,  something is way-off when 2 adults email for 3 months
and yet can't get it together for a simple phone call.   Something smells.

[Daveman]

Thanks, Gator. I'm just sitting here feeling lousy about this, and I probably shouldn't. I'll use your advice and suggest three or four times we should talk. I was actually the one who suggested the time slot on Friday, and checked my e-mails beforehand to see if she'd replied that wouldn't be good for her (which she didn't). This is all new to me, so my first thought when I couldn't reach her was "Done".

Here's the problem as I see it. Are you generally the paranoid type?  If so, then that inner voice makes a habit of wiggin' out and you can see demons where there are none.  If not, then there is a reason the inner voice is making itself heard. It may have deeper reasons than merely the phone problem.  Usually that voice is dead on target. It can sense when "something just isn't right" and let's us know it.  

That's why I thought it would be a good idea to talk to Alex to get over the hump one way or another.  You are having trouble with either letting go, or moving forward.  True, if a woman discovers you are checking her out, she just might kick you to the curb, however, you are currently stagnant, moving neither forward nor backward - just sort of hanging in limbo.  

You are emotionally invested in the pen pal. It happens on both sides of this.  As I mentioned before, nothing in this is outrageous, but everything taken together seems "off" to me.

Of course, I'm (we're) not omniscient and are extrapolating possibilities from a few paragraphs of text.  I suppose everyone is different, but here's my experience.  I have never had a woman with interest in me not want to speak after a very short time of communication -- days, not months, and I cannot imagine it being to the stage of writing about a visit having never at least talked (a lot) on the phone.  Not saying it doesn't happen, but from my experience (which may be directly related to how I go about this) this is weird.

Gator's suggestion of the three suggestions are good. And if she does speak with you, make sure that she is cognizant of topics which were discussed in email (as opposed to oblivious which would indicate that the voice you hear is not connected to the brain which read/composed the emails).

And most of all... R E L A X.. this is neither panacea nor apocalypse.  OHMMMMMMM.... ohmmmmmmm.. ohmmmmmmm... relax man.. the situation will become more clear.

[facetrock]

  I'm just not buying this. The story of taking care of little children, not understanding her life, the phone not close by and repeated attempts to call but never an answer. Complete BS in my book. Remember, when a woman gives you a phone number its for a reason, its to call her unless things have changed recently.
  Come on guys its been 3 months of emailing, phone number has been given but still no contact and flimsy excuses that try to pull at the OPs heart. Plus she is 20 years younger.
  Another thing. After the last letter you sent her, if she was a real woman the next letter you would've got from her is one telling you to piss off. Not some crybaby crap asking you why you are so cruel to her.
  
  
  

[Nat]

I'm not saying the girl is a scammer, because nobody can prove or deny that with so little information. But you know what? The girl is so desperately in need for money to pay for her room, that she, being a teacher of english?, does overtime in a cafe/restaurant. At the same time, she offers to pay for the house in Yalta. And she manages to find a big house only for 30$ during the season, when you pay 30$ for the lousiest rooms. Well, ok, her friend made a huuuuge discount for her, that's possible, but working so hard to pay for her rented room - she offers to pay for vacation? If she really isn't a scammer and if she WILL really pay for the vacation, then you would be a scammer, baldhiker, accepting this proposition