Novosibirsk Doesn't Believe in Tears: TwoBit's Sixteen Days In Novosibirsk

[diverboy70]

Just my two things

I have the most respect for Two bit, we seems to  be a lot of persons just sitting around and have a lot of opinions. I do not agree with his way of doing it, I am a very WmVO buy. But he really got out there and did it.

I also have been out there meeting women. For good and for bad.

I have a problem with guys like Kievstar, men trying to be serious. I have had a long talk about this with my girl. She is a normal girl looking for a serious man.


Moderator, moderate this if you feel it is needed. Just hearing  Kiew makes me sick! You are just talking about all of this as a business deal!

You are just trying to find the perfect woman, Reading your posts, you will have a very hard time finding a serious woman, But I guess a partner for Egypt will work as fine for you.

Reading your posts, I see that you want to find a vacation, not really making a relationship.

My girl is really updated on my situation. And I will not talk about this or her with some stupid situation

[Aloe]

"I know perfectly he and she and all about their three years relation, but it's out of the topic.
The summarize of the section is here :
Common sense seems to tell you that. But take everything you hear with caution. Sometimes what a women says is totally diffirent from what she actually wants. This all has to do with emotions, feelings, fairy tales, ect..... you know.... normal women....compared to reality.

Keep this in the back of your head.

Never take relationship advice about dating women from women." SMS60

again, you are making some assumptions that she wants something different than what she stated based solely on her going off to have sex with some guy. My point is, she may have sex with him once or twice or 100 times, doesnt mean he is relationship material, just means she wants fun.

[GQBlues]

GQ, if you could figure out and write down what made it so easy for you to attract women you could make millions. Seriously, you should see what these former geek PUAs charge for their training camps!

First off, I wasn't implying that the measure of TBB's success is just to get laid. I did gather he was very attracted to Anna and likely 'hoped' for a chance to see if the relations may have had the chance. I just 'sensed' ('guess'  sitting in LA) something happened, or didn't happen, during their dates.

As for the other things, Jooky, seriously I wouldn't know what to tell you or anyone. I can't even begin to understand where or how to start. Everything I've done and experienced is pure improvisional, it has all been reactions more so than 'pro-action. It appears to be an initiation from my part since I am the one who would normally 'act' for the moment, but words and ensuing actions wholly relies on each individual woman initial signals. That's why even when my friends would ask before what my lines are, or what I say to these women, I seriously do not know or ever even had one. Not once. Even now, if I tried to think back what were the best things I ever said to anyone at first 'speech', I am hard pressed. What is clear to me is how deeply I will key into any woman's movements and eyes nano-seconds I ever see her. I don't have to be looking directly at her, or she to me. It's almost like a 'sense'. The second a woman looks my way when I approach her, it serves as a cue to say exactly what I need to say to her'. Like as if she's dictated things for me to tell her that she's wanting me to say. Does that make sense? Will you learn anything from what I just said? Likely 'no' Jooky. You can't teach these things anymore than Michael Jordan can 'compartmentalize' what are otherwise his own 'reactionary instincts' when he played B-ball. To further exemplify this point, when ask why great players are great and dominating, they universally reply, " :::shrug::: I just take whatever the defense gives me!" They react, they improvise.

This is largely why it's hard for me to agree with TBB's PUA concept. It's too rigid, too structured, too confining, and hardly 'reactionary'. Like he's following a program REGARDLESS what the woman is already screaming at him (exaggeration). To try and compartmentalize these conditions in a small book seem rather confining to me. I said that upthread. But hey, a little bit of something is helluva better than nothing. The only thing I will caution TBB, these theories may in fact help him in general, just be very careful having to fully rely upon it because it will likely fail him at the worst possible time.

There's so much variables to these Jooky. There really is. I'm sure you've heard people try to explain moments they find those 'sweet spots' in whatever it is they're doing when they just can't miss, or do anything 'wrong'. They will always say, "I don't know, man. I was just in this 'zone'!". You can't explain it, those things and moments just 'happens'. The trick is, finding the path that leads directly to that zone, and maybe that's what helps my cause - maybe being around 'women' a bit more than other men helps a little bit...maybe, maybe, and some more 'maybe'.
 
Besides, women are in fact very 'individualized' yet they all seem so simliar in their wants, needs, moods, and desires that we mortal men simply label them as 'unpredictable'. Even some women believe that about themselves. For now, you need to know based 'solely' from my own observations - that is so far from the truth. They are for me, as 'predictable' as the next rising sun. In some strange way, because I listen and they tell me....all in one nano-second.

Trust me, if it wasn't for the moral police, and respect to the integrity of Dan's site LOL - I can cite you actual events that would absolutely blow your mind.

As an aside: Are you serious they actually have 'training camps' for these?  

[diverboy70]

Aloe, are we taking about sex? We have a very good report on that. Doo you want to tell me everything about my sex life?
I miss my sex, But I miss my darling more.

[Patagonie]

again, you are making some assumptions that she wants something different than what she stated based solely on her going off to have sex with some guy. My point is, she may have sex with him once or twice or 100 times, doesnt mean he is relationship material, just means she wants fun.

Aloe please, and without offence you.
This girl was absolutely in love with him and lost three years of her life in a non well balanced relation, all people around her shaking their heads hoping that she jettison him as soon as possible. And at bed he was not a good one. Ok ? May we stop.

[Aloe]

Aloe, are we taking about sex? We have a very good report on that. Doo you want to tell me everything about my sex life?
I miss my sex, But I miss my darling more.

Im talking about this post by Patagonie

Typical AW story, i have tons of sort of this story.
We are sixty persons to have a dinner and disco. Near to me, all along the dinner a female in her mid thirty was explaining about what she want for her romance : "oh i need a gentle, kind guy. I'm a real serious women and i want only serious relations, faithfulness is important, i need time to know people + many minutes of BS.
Two hours after she began to dance with the well known f**cker of the party. Four hours after she was in the car of the guy car in the car park all lights off (she already had the driving licence for your information).  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cool  Roll Eyes This is the reality, this is experienced, this is not opinion, bla bla.

So basically he is saying that he made the conclusion that she wants something other than she stated in the conversation, based solely on the fact that she went and had sex "with the well known f**cker of the party".
Im saying, just because she had sex with him, which could have been for a multitude of reasons, does not mean she wants something other than what she stated.
Now if she went and had a relationship with the guy that was opposite to what she described, and she knew he isnt what she described, and she persisted to remain in the relationship for years and years, that would be proof that she wants something other than she described, and NOT that she went and had sex with someone. Fact that she had sex with the guy, no matter how many times, proves nothing.

[Misha]

If she sees a super sexy guy, albeit a known a-hole, she may go and have sex with him for fun, but she wont be planning a relationship with him for sure, because he lacks the qualities she looks for and needs.

Or she will spend years trying to unsuccessfully change him and then spend a few more years afterward whining about the experience 

[Aloe]

Aloe please, and without offence you.
This girl was absolutely in love with him and lost three years of her life in a non well balanced relation, all people around her shaking their heads hoping that she jettison him as soon as possible. And at bed he was not a good one. Ok ? May we stop.

Now scroll up to your original post, and show me where this is stated in it? Its not. If you want to tell some kind of story to support your opinion, then at least make it more understandable than you did the first time around. What relation are you talking about anyway? You said her GF was in relationship with the guy. Nothing of her being in any relationships was ever mentioned.
On a side note, how do you know if he is good or bad in bed? haha

[kievstar]

Diverboy,

I am happily married for a longtime.  Your just mad as I called you out on your beatdown in Russia and that you have failed several times.  I think your reading comprehension is not very good and I know English is not your first language.  

Where do I say this is a business deal?  Anyone that thinks marriage is a business deal will fail.   Regarding Egypt where did this come from?    

Have fun in Kiev and hopefully this one works out for you. But from your wording you already feel she is out of your league which is not a good start.  Its your wording and not mine.  I probably know this girl as well if she lives in Kiev.  

[kievstar]

Diverboy, have you actually met your girl in person yet?  From your other post you said no. 

[Aloe]

Diverboy,

I am happily married for a longtime.  Your just mad as I called you out on your beatdown in Russia and that you have failed several times.  I think your reading comprehension is not very good and I know English is not your first language.  

Where do I say this is a business deal?  Anyone that thinks marriage is a business deal will fail.   Regarding Egypt where did this come from?    

Have fun in Kiev and hopefully this one works out for you. But from your wording you already feel she is out of your league which is not a good start.  Its your wording and not mine.  I probably know this girl as well if she lives in Kiev.  

Dont know about your approach to marriage, but your approach to finding a wife was business like, i think. The fact that she had to be 176 cm or higher (or how many exactly was it?) and not 5 mm shorter and not 100 gramms heavier than your desired weight (to the point where you actually put your future wife on the scale to verify her words about her weight) definitely sounds odd. But as somebody said, different strokes for different folks

[Jooky]

As an aside: Are you serious they actually have 'training camps' for these?

Yup! $1000 / person /  day. I'm telling you, you need to figure out how you do it. I'll invest.  

It's too rigid, too structured, too confining, and hardly 'reactionary'.

I agree, but I've also seen these tactics work.  

[SFandEE]

Fact that she had sex with the guy, no matter how many times, proves nothing.

Maybe it supports anecdotally that those men and women who idealize women as the stalwarts in maintaining family stability, keeping themselves free of disease (condoms do fail), and providing a higher benchmark for proper social behavior to men are wrong.

[Misha]

I agree, but I've also seen these tactics work.  

Reading this thread, this is my question: would you actually want to marry any of the women on whom these tactics will work? Would you really want to marry the dysfunctional 30+ woman bent on banging the bad boys out back? Would you really want to spend a lifetime with the woman who only dated you because you could successfully manipulate her?

My read on this: the games are good for young men (usually somewhat attractive) who are looking to maximize their one-night stands. They will work on women whose intent (conscious or unconscious) is to find a boy for a one-night stand. IMHO, if you want to find someone for a RELATIONSHIP, then you should skip all these PUA games, and I agree with all that Chivo has written, that this is especially true in Russia.   

[Gator]

Im saying, just because she had sex with him, which could have been for a multitude of reasons, does not mean she wants something other than what she stated.

Exactly.  That evening, organic food was not on the menu.  Yet she was hungry, so she had greasy hamburger and fries.

Now if she went and had a relationship with the guy that was opposite to what she described, and she knew he isnt what she described, and she persisted to remain in the relationship for years and years, that would be proof that she wants something other than she described, and NOT that she went and had sex with someone.

Some people know hamburgers are unhealthy, yet love the taste.

[Patagonie]

I would make a little summarize of the topic (not the TR, it's TBB's)

Few man get laid often
An a lot a few

These man are natural
Those who are not natural (or not really)  had work a lot
 
There a mistery around this attraction
The master of them are called PUA
Game is the name of this skill
Game is mastered for the very first meeting to few meetings. It doesn't help really in the long term relationship.

Real or false PUA, and all specialized forum deliver learning and informations to a lot of potential interested people (since 14 to ??).
Theory and practice are (for those who are not the natural PUA and for all who want to enhance theirs skill) the two roads to go. But learning without practice is totally ineffective.
Learning and practicing is a hard way. Many years are normally required.

Game add not only worth with woman, but also at work and with all social relationship in general. It's a way to modify, change, and have a better life, as powerful as psychoterapy.

About all who are interested fery vew will become PUA. A lot will improve their life anyways. A few will learn anything and will do counterproductives things.

Is the game raise the attraction ? Does the game allows you to date more women ? Yes. Do you have more pleasure with women (i don't speak about sex !) ? Yes. For all who had work, no doubt about results.

Does a woman detects a "good" player ? No. So believe, girls, that you will recognize him is a lie or a fairy tale to protect your proud.   Why ? Because he is not really playing, HE IS. He is what he had become : a worthly man.

After the player can choice, have a funny quarter of hour with her and dump her.
Share one hour with her and gets her phone number and dump her.
Spend one evening with her and return at home and dump her.
Spend a second evening with her and kiss and hugh her and dump her.
Make an ONS, the third evening (or the first evening) and dump her, OR NOT DUMP HER
And for the proud of all woman here, and because it's absolutely true, at each step of the process the girl CAN also dump the man, probably less than an ordinary guy but it happens : it's better to be HONEST about the reality of the field.
and the guy can begin after few weeks or few months a TRUE and REAL relationship oriented in the long term. Perhaps during this beginning as he is experienced he will do that a lot of AW do : he will keep all the same a lot of contacts like they usually do.

SO remember each big love story begins by one night in a bed (if you prefer in the forest or in a garage it's your problem)

So game is exactly like martial arts : you can fight on the car park of the disco each saturday night (f**ck few times per week --> ONS)
OR
you can lead your life to change your soul, your body, your food habits , have the right thinking, share your knolewdege and advice and help people in the tojo. --> As you take control of yourself and responsability of what you do, and as you meet a lot of girls with success you can choice the GOOD one, and be the GOOD one for her too.
 Exemple rather than say this girl is a bitch (she get laid with you neighbour, the hell's angel with the Harley) it's perhaps better to analyse your behavior, and try to understand what you did stupid. Exemple of stupids things wich decrease interest of any AW girls : calling her all the time in firsts days, doing always what she wants and with no delay, asking her what she want to do all time, asking her if he can leave her trouser before sex. Believe me, i had listening a lot of girls in my life, and they had met at least one time in their life this sort of guy acting in this way.


So it's important to understand game is a tool, who enhance forgotten skills. Your goal is what you aim. TBB aims a marriage relation. Me the same, and many guys here, on RWD, too. As i said game helps to enhance the worthy of the men in the few firsts meetings. In the marriage course, and as there are many cultural differences between AW and RW a lot of things are important too. I agree.

Now i would advice who don't know nothing about game and have only opinions, to search information and spend at least few weeks, and preferentially few months AND after they will express themself. Like searching a eastern/western partner it's a complicated, wiser, atypical and disturbing topic, too complicated to summarize in game = bad, game = ons.

Patagonie

[Misha]

SO remember each big love story begins by one night in a bed (if you prefer in the forest or in a garage it's your problem)

This sums us nicely the mindset of the PUA crowd versus my own. For me, each love story begins with a soul-touching conversation. The rest is simply icing 

[Jooky]

Reading this thread, this is my question: would you actually want to marry any of the women on whom these tactics will work?

Yes, no, maybe, I dunno.  :noidea:

From what I know about 'game', mostly from reading one book (called appropriately 'The Game'), watching some junk on VH1 and reading some ebook a friend shared with me:

Much of what these PUAs teach are self-improvement tactics (get in shape, dress better, learn to be comfortable in crowds, learn to relax around women). Would I marry a woman that fell for those tactics? Yup. I think that's all good stuff.

Many tactics are things I normally do or not do. (Don't try to impress with material things, be playful and tease, blah blah blah). Would I marry a woman that falls for these? Yup. I have no choice!

Some tactics are geared towards creating initial tension (or attraction) with women who will chase you instead of you chasing them. (Like not responding to an SMS). Would I marry a woman that falls for these? Probably not. I like first dates that stretch on forever and if a girl calls me, I answer. The girls that get the disinterested treatment from me, I'm not interested in. 

Would you really want to marry the dysfunctional 30+ woman bent on banging the bad boys out back?

What would I know about 30+ women?  Seriously, 'game' attracts all kinds of women, not just the bad boy banging type. It's mostly about improving yourself and your social skills. Nothing wrong with that.

[Misha]

Much of what these PUAs teach are self-improvement tactics (get in shape, dress better, learn to be comfortable in crowds, learn to relax around women).

Not exactly rocket science here. A guy should do this all the time.

I like first dates that stretch on forever and if a girl calls me, I answer. The girls that get the disinterested treatment from me, I'm not interested in.

Ditto. Likewise, I dumped pretty quickly any woman who was playing too many games. 

Seriously, 'game' attracts all kinds of women, not just the bad boy banging type. It's mostly about improving yourself and your social skills. Nothing wrong with that.

Well, if you define "game" as simply having basic social skills and hygiene, I agree that it won't hurt, but I don't see the need to pursue all these convoluted rules and strategies to somehow create attraction where there was none.

[Jooky]

I like first dates that stretch on forever and if a girl calls me, I answer. The girls that get the disinterested treatment from me, I'm not interested in.

I'll add this though.

Part of 'playing disinterested' is in order to reverse coming across as desperate. The advice is geared towards guys that show too much interest of the type that sends the message "I am desperate to get you in bed, please please please", such as showering a girl with gifts or meaningless compliments or in general trying too hard.

[Misha]

I'll add this though.

Part of 'playing disinterested' is in order to reverse coming across as desperate. The advice is geared towards guys that show too much interest of the type that sends the message "I am desperate to get you in bed, please please please", such as showering a girl with gifts or meaningless compliments or in general trying too hard.

The problem, IMHO, is that rather than not appearing desperate, the men appear, well, indifferent. That is where a guy is likely to fail miserably if dating in Russia. You have to put some effort into the seduction  :evil:

[brad5959]

the OP wears elevator shoes, wingtip shoes and long sleeved dress shirts on a hot summer day while on vacation.  maybe he's too uptight to be a PUA??  and maybe he's not hip enough for 24,25 year old girls.  maybe he's trying to date out of his league?

[OlgaH]

oh, all these games...

[ML]

oh, all these games...

Great to be a woman with no testosterone problems; isn't it Olga?

[OlgaH]

Great to be a woman with no testosterone problems; isn't it Olga?

The most important is to have normal testosterone and estrogen levels  
http://women.webmd.com/normal-testosterone-and-estrogen-levels-in-women