HRB/RLM Again

[Sculpto]

Well, there is something very interesting going on the other forum.  It appears HRB/RLM has managed to suck the brains out of the heads of some people I thought were fairly smart. 

It appears there may be some sort of a merger.. which would make the other forum completely useless.  I am guessing about the merger.. but the language and things that are NOT being said seem to indicate there is something serious going on behind the scenes.  There is also a lot of justifying taking place.  Its freaking weird. 

[Jooky]

Agree with Fiction, who pointed me to that thread.

To see the likes of AndrewFi backing up agency practices and TomT who's often stood up against the posting of private conversations and details being ok with viewing archived supposedly private correspondence is bizzare.

I must be really missing out on something...

$$$?

[azureroo]

Can someone please point me to this other forum, as I also have a particular interest in the practices of that company. Thanks

[Admin]

I am pretty sure he means the site over at RUAdventures.com.

- Dan

[Admin]

Agree with Fiction, who pointed me to that thread.

To see the likes of AndrewFi backing up agency practices and TomT who's often stood up against the posting of private conversations and details being ok with viewing archived supposedly private correspondence is bizzare.

I must be really missing out on something...

$$$?

Andrew and Tom are both members here:

Andrewfin -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=profile;u=156
TomT -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1022

Feel free to send them a PM and ask them to stop over sometime.

- Dan

[Voyager36]

It appears there may be some sort of a merger.. which would make the other forum completely useless.  I am guessing about the merger.. but the language and things that are NOT being said seem to indicate there is something serious going on behind the scenes.  There is also a lot of justifying taking place.  

Greetings Dan, members.
You may know me as "Voyager" elsewhere.

Sculpto, if you you are hinting about some collusion between HRB and the Moderators of the other forum, you are incorrect. I would know, as I am the Mod for that room.  
Members are free to ask questions and post their experiences with the agency, good or bad.
The agency is also able to answer comments, although most don't.
Tom was invited by HRB to visit the agency, and give his opinion.

[Shadow]

I hope someone will invite the manager over here.

The idea looks interesting, and I am sure that the business looks different from inside as from outside. It also is a bright idea to let some members endorse an agency for fitting compensation. An idea that seems to fit in the general business model of HRB. 

[Sculpto]

Dan.. thanks for saying the name.. I didn't want to.

Voyager.. I don't know or not.. but.. the attitude of some people is shocking.  There is so much evidence of deception over such an extended period of time I am just shocked that people are apologizing for the actions of that site.

Lets break it down...

Dozens or hundreds of known complaints similar to my own.

The owner suing former members for speaking in public about their experiences.

The owner suing Jim, who as I said in that thread is not even close to someone I like, but even so.. it is clear the lawsuit against Jim was spurious and intended to break his back financially.

Hundreds of profiles with photos at least 5 years old from girls that never come on cam.

And of course, the queen of all BS MOB girls.. Elnara.   (I bet Elnara has generated over a million bucks in sales revenue.. the girl doesn't have a job except for occasional modeling gigs which she is getting too old for yet has a nice car.. travels all over the place when she wants and spends hours and hours every day sitting on cam)  I haven't checked to see if she is currently on or not.. she does take breaks on occasion and will close her profile for periods of time. 

And the thing is.. Elnara isn't the only one on the site with the same kind of behavior and track record.  I can go down the list of ladies and show you every single one that is full of crap on that site.. and there are many.

Anyway..

[kievstar]

They also have Jim for the agency list who is well known to receive money to make certain agencies get a higher rating.  The other board is great for casual talk.  If you want to know about RW and dating stay on this forum.

Jim is the biggest scammer of them all.  Anyone ever meet Jim in Russia or Ukraine in person?

[Jack]

Jim is the biggest scammer of them all.   

ahhh, little wonder why Jim does not like RWD?   

I received an e-mail from a guy about a month ago who posted some questions to Jim on the other Russian discussion board. He was sent a PM by management saying that if he did not stop with his line of questioning towards Jim he would be banned from the site.

Great thing about RWD, they do not ban members for speaking the truth.

Here is something interesting some of you guys may find with regards to business's that are hiring girls to work as video chat models for dating sites.



Direct communication , capturing emotions , unlimited audience!

you talk to real people, but you can create your own any image and be what you want when communicating with them , because they do not know about you anything except what you tell them about himself , and everybody understands that most likely will never meet.


http://russianwomenadventure.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=77&sid=fc3f52abf124a238958d4d55561122ba

[Sculpto]

Damn.. good find Jack. 

Now.. can you prove a link between that Orchid Agency in Odessa and the site http://www.model.mk.ua/ or any other agency that is affiliate to HRB or any other major player?

[Voyager36]

Dan.. thanks for saying the name.. I didn't want to.

Voyager.. I don't know or not.. but.. the attitude of some people is shocking.  There is so much evidence of deception over such an extended period of time I am just shocked that people are apologizing for the actions of that site.

Lets break it down...

Dozens or hundreds of known complaints similar to my own.

The owner suing former members for speaking in public about their experiences.

Sculpto, my own personal belief is that having agencies (& commercial members) participate on a forum is a good thing, it shows that they are willing to face criticism, at least. There are people on a forum who question the actions of those who feel they have been scammed, as a certain amount of responsibility rests with the consumer to exercise due diligence.

I know that this particular agency has sued Jim, but do you have a link to the case of their lawsuit against a disgruntled customer?
I would be very interested to see that.

The owner suing Jim, who as I said in that thread is not even close to someone I like, but even so.. it is clear the lawsuit against Jim was spurious and intended to break his back financially.

I agree

[Sculpto]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/civil/article898382.ece

[Voyager36]

They also have Jim for the agency list who is well known to receive money to make certain agencies get a higher rating. 

That is an allegation that has been made, I've never seen any proof of that offered.
As such, it might be considered to be a slanderous allegation unless some basis in fact can be presented.

Jim is the biggest scammer of them all.  Anyone ever meet Jim in Russia or Ukraine in person?

There are certainly those that are Jim's detractors.
Here's my own point of view:
When I started this adventure some 4 or 5 years ago, I didn't even know that there were crooked agencies & rampant scamming going on. I assumed (like many others in the US, Canada) that if you ordered a product online, you would get the product delivered as described. I had not seen or know of the forums. I read Jim's advice about the different scams out there, and then I investigated further. He recommended Elena's, which I used*, and against HRB & Anastasia, which I didn't use.
*(not based only on his recommendation)

I read his disclaimer -

Information found on this site has been reported to me. I base my findings on thousands and thousands of reports over 10 years of operating my site.
I have operated this site since 1999. I think I know a thing or 2 about scamming.
Don't take my word for it. Draw your own conclusions.

I didn't pay anything to use his site, and I didn't base my choice based only on his advice. From my point of view, it is just another tool for the informed consumer.

[shakespear]

It appears there may be some sort of a merger.. which would make the other forum completely useless.  I am guessing about the merger.. but the language and things that are NOT being said seem to indicate there is something serious going on behind the scenes.  There is also a lot of justifying taking place.  Its freaking weird. 

Hardly surprising you're guessing wrong.  There is no "merger".  There is some "fact finding" and "independent investigation" going on by some members of good reputation on RUA at the invitation of senior management of HRB.  I'm sure HRB believes their agency will gain some credibility by the results if this investigation.  There is no merger between HRB and RUA.  There is no endorsement by RUA of HRB.  There is certainly nothing going on "behind the scenes".    

[Voyager36]

I received an e-mail from a guy about a month ago who posted some questions to Jim on the other Russian discussion board. He was sent a PM by management saying that if he did not stop with his line of questioning towards Jim he would be banned from the site.

I don't know if that is the same chap that I dealt with earlier, but it may have been.
I don't have any problem with members posting their experience or opinions of agencies based on interactions with them.
If you had a bad experience with agency "ABC" and want to tell about it, I have no problem with that.
We have another topic about Jim's lists, and this member posted his negative opinion of Jim, and recommended members not to use his site. I didn't have a problem with that.
The member asked Jim if he takes money to put bad agencies on the gold list, Jim replied that he didn't.
The problems began when the member began trolling on every topic that Jim was involved in - on a topic about XYZ agency he would ask "Why does Jim recommend ABC agency?"
Also repeating the same allegations ad nauseum.

There is a legal term Asked & answered
Once a question has been answered we don't expect someone to repeat it endlessly.
Suppose that someone asked Jack if he invited scammers on his social for a % of the cash extracted.* Jack replies that he never allows scammers on his socials.
(*disclaimer - I've only read about two guys that went on Jack's socials, both were pleased with the service given)
Now, if the same guy kept following Jack around and on unrelated threads stating "Jack rips people off and invites scammers to his socials" I would delete that as 1.) The question has already been answered by Jack, and 2.) there is no proof offered to support the allegation. 3.) the statement is unrelated to the topic at hand.

 If the same guy had posted "There seemed to be lots of scammers at that social" or "I felt that I was ripped off", I wouldn't have a problem with that post, as it is his observation (provided it was in the relevant topic.)

Do the moderators of this section (Daveman, Boethius) have a different policy? I would be interested to hear.

[Sculpto]

Hardly surprising you're guessing wrong.  There is no "merger".  There is some "fact finding" and "independent investigation" going on by some members of good reputation on RUA at the invitation of senior management of HRB.  I'm sure HRB believes their agency will gain some credibility by the results if this investigation.  There is no merger between HRB and RUA.  There is no endorsement by RUA of HRB.  There is certainly nothing going on "behind the scenes".    

We will see how that plays out.. I just seem to recall Manny responding to my comments to CEO that I had asked Nadia to create a private forum for paying members of HRB so that men could share notes, help each other, and deal with potential scam issues.  Manny Asked.. "why not do that here" to which I replied.. the men at HRB don't typically know about the forum and we have no way to reach them.  Anyway, the hint was there..

Sorry but Tom is not going to find anything wrong in his investigation.  I swear to you right now I am going to get some girls to come forward if this deception by CEO and the cheerleading at RUA continues. 

HRB has demonstrated by their lack of willingness to allow the men to communicate with each other that they have something to hide.  There is no other reason to not allow members to communicate with each other.  They have also shown how they despise their customers.  I can see how their office meetings go.. in between the ridicule of specific clients they figure out how to keep those very same clients spending. 

Privacy concerns fall into the toilet when they have every chat and every letter archived indefinitely.  I requested when I quit that my records be destroyed.. they have not.  What reason is there for that at this point?  They only have my private communications on archive to use against me at some later date.  There is no other reason to keep that information archived.

[kievstar]

Voyageur, there is proof.  The other board likes the business Jim brings to that board and certain agencies like him.  I see you are new to RWD.  I had personal conversation with Jim and concluded he is a scam.  Has anyone ever met Jim in Ukraine or Russia? Voyageur have you ever met Jim in person?  
 

[BillyB]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/civil/article898382.ece

The guy signed a contract with HRB/RLM to remove all the hurtful things he said about them on the internet. He was to be paid $2500 for his efforts but failed to remove all the things and breached the contract.

$2500 is nothing for the agency to pay considering they could lose dozens or hundreds of customers off his complaint. He alone spent $7000 on HRB/RLM with nothing to show for it.

I'm sure HRB believes their agency will gain some credibility by the results if this investigation.

I'm sure of that too. The chosen ones given a free vacation to FL already have positive things to say about HRB/RLM. The chosen ones should insist on inspecting the feeder agencies in the FSU and request unrestricted access to employees and the women that do video chat.

HRB/RLM gains credibility and free publicity. If just 5 new customers sign up after reading a no wrong doing report and spend $5000 each before they wake up and realize they paid for a fantasy, the cost of the vacations paid by the agency is worth it. Smart business move on HRB/RLM part.

[Admin]

They also have Jim for the agency list who is well known to receive money to make certain agencies get a higher rating.  The other board is great for casual talk.  If you want to know about RW and dating stay on this forum.

Jim is the biggest scammer of them all.  Anyone ever meet Jim in Russia or Ukraine in person?

ahhh, little wonder why Jim does not like RWD?    

I received an e-mail from a guy about a month ago who posted some questions to Jim on the other Russian discussion board. He was sent a PM by management saying that if he did not stop with his line of questioning towards Jim he would be banned from the site.

Great thing about RWD, they do not ban members for speaking the truth.

Here is something interesting some of you guys may find with regards to business's that are hiring girls to work as video chat models for dating sites.



Direct communication , capturing emotions , unlimited audience!

you talk to real people, but you can create your own any image and be what you want when communicating with them , because they do not know about you anything except what you tell them about himself , and everybody understands that most likely will never meet.


http://russianwomenadventure.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=77&sid=fc3f52abf124a238958d4d55561122ba

I don't know if that is the same chap that I dealt with earlier, but it may have been.
I don't have any problem with members posting their experience or opinions of agencies based on interactions with them.
If you had a bad experience with agency "ABC" and want to tell about it, I have no problem with that.
We have another topic about Jim's lists, and this member posted his negative opinion of Jim, and recommended members not to use his site. I didn't have a problem with that.
The member asked Jim if he takes money to put bad agencies on the gold list, Jim replied that he didn't.
The problems began when the member began trolling on every topic that Jim was involved in - on a topic about XYZ agency he would ask "Why does Jim recommend ABC agency?"
Also repeating the same allegations ad nauseum.

There is a legal term Asked & answered
Once a question has been answered we don't expect someone to repeat it endlessly.
Suppose that someone asked Jack if he invited scammers on his social for a % of the cash extracted.* Jack replies that he never allows scammers on his socials.
(*disclaimer - I've only read about two guys that went on Jack's socials, both were pleased with the service given)
Now, if the same guy kept following Jack around and on unrelated threads stating "Jack rips people off and invites scammers to his socials" I would delete that as 1.) The question has already been answered by Jack, and 2.) there is no proof offered to support the allegation. 3.) the statement is unrelated to the topic at hand.

 If the same guy had posted "There seemed to be lots of scammers at that social" or "I felt that I was ripped off", I wouldn't have a problem with that post, as it is his observation (provided it was in the relevant topic.)

Do the moderators of this section (Daveman, Boethius) have a different policy? I would be interested to hear.

It strikes me the JimsList issue is tangential. It may be argued the legal actions taken by HRB against Jimslists make it relevant, but it remains a tangent to the OP. There is plenty of information found elsewhere at RWD regarding Jim and his sites.

Hardly surprising you're guessing wrong.  There is no "merger".  There is some "fact finding" and "independent investigation" going on by some members of good reputation on RUA at the invitation of senior management of HRB.  I'm sure HRB believes their agency will gain some credibility by the results if this investigation.  There is no merger between HRB and RUA.  There is no endorsement by RUA of HRB.  There is certainly nothing going on "behind the scenes".    

>>There is certainly nothing going on "behind the scenes".<<

Brad, it seems to me you are speaking out of both sides of your mouth. On the one had stating clearly that there is "fact finding" and "independent investigation" but nothing "behind the scenes."

Of course there is plenty going on "behind the scenes." For example, you make the presumptive statement that HRB is expecting to benefit by offering an expenses paid trip for Tom to come review their operation. Did HRB actually state that? If so, what are those explicit expectations?

My point is this - everyone ought to just settle down a bit. Focus on FACTS and not on emotional hyperbole.

TomT is a guy whom I have never met, but somehow, I feel a sense of trust of Tom's integrity - to the extent one can gain that sense from solely internet interactions.

There are ALWAYS things going on "behind the scenes" - and any suggestion otherwise is either naive or disingenuous. Every organization, website and/or individual involved in this has some personal interest. Does it matter what that interest is? Maybe - and maybe not.

I can easily imagine HRB wanting an 'independent' review of their operations - and it could be for several reasons. One is - they may genuinely want to have an outsider review what they are doing and gaining the benefit of that to improve their operations. They may, of course, want to be able to cite a favorable review to offset unfavorable reviews. There are various motivations we might speculate about - but the fact is - they DID something that no other agency I recall has done. They invited an outsider, unknown to them, to come review their offices - AND - they put their money where their mouth is and PAID for it. Kudos to them for taking that bold step.

Let's all see if we might stop the mass speculation and focus on the FACTS.

If you want to help - maybe give Tom some ideas on the kinds of things you want him to look into. Perhaps it is too late for that, I have no idea - but the very same things you will suggest to be investigated are likely areas for guys to look closely at any agency.

- Dan

[Voyager36]

Voyageur, there is proof.  I see you are new to RWD.  

Kievstar, my username is spelled "Voyager" without a "u". Not that it bothers me, but there is another guy on the RW boards known as "Voyageur", but that's someone else. Just FYI.  

HRB/RLM gains credibility and free publicity. If just 5 new customers sign up after reading a no wrong doing report and spend $5000 each before they wake up and realize they paid for a fantasy, the cost of the vacations paid by the agency is worth it. Smart business move on HRB/RLM part.

On the other hand Billy, anyone reading that thread will also see comments by Sculpto, yourself and others with less than complimentary accounts of the agency. If anyone still wishes to use them after reading the whole thread, they can hardly complain that they weren't warned.
I've always believed that a customer has the obligation to do due diligence before spending $1,000's on a service, so if a google search for "HRB" leads to that thread (or this one), I think we've done our part to get the word out.

[Manny]

I just seem to recall Manny responding to my comments to CEO that I had asked Nadia to create a private forum for paying members of HRB so that men could share notes, help each other, and deal with potential scam issues.  Manny Asked.. "why not do that here" to which I replied.. the men at HRB don't typically know about the forum and we have no way to reach them.  Anyway, the hint was there..

2012isfiction (Sculpto): I think you misunderstood the thrust of what I was saying.

You asked:

HRB/RLM CEO, what about the idea of having an open forum where your members could post about experiences?

To which I suggested:

Surely better to refer them here as we are beyond HRB's control and have no axe to grind either way?

The thought being that a forum controlled by the agency might be accused of selectively editing contributions. An independent forum would be beyond their control and thus not subject to those potential allegations. I agree there would be a difficulty in reaching their clients for this purpose, and it would require the (unlikely) co-operation of the agency itself.

The point was that an independent forum makes for a far better venue for objective uncensored discussion than an agency controlled forum.

I can assure you that there is no kind of "merger" on the cards. I apologise if what I wrote was easily misconstrued. I hope I have cleared that up.

[ECOCKS]

Damn!

Another monolithic, capitalist conspiracy theory refuted......

[BC]

I had to look twice after reviewing this thread to see if I really was where I thought I was.

Interesting.

[Voyager36]

I had to look twice after reviewing this thread to see if I really was where I thought I was.

That would be in Ireland, right?