Men marriage material

[BillyB]

Billy you are missing the point. If any of these guys get on the holy grail for perfection, they won't find it. No woman is perfect or man for that matter. We all have imperfections, some more than others. After numerous trips and dates with multitudes of women at what point does the man say to himself, "hey, maybe the problem is me?"

Maybe they are the problem, maybe they aren't. Regardless, if a man or woman has to find the holy grail to be happy otherwise they would never get married, then they better not get married until they find the holy grail. Anything less and they will enter marriage unhappy and with a mediocre attitude.

Some guys have never been married and of course we got to ask if they have a problem but in the end, it's no concern of mine. If a guy has a problem, that is for his dates to figure out. If he is getting dumped more than he is dumping, then he needs to figure out what he's doing wrong.

I never stated it was a negative.

Actually I was quoting SMS but forgot to switch the names. He stated what I quoted as a negative.

[Jooky]

the thrill of the chase

From trip reports, the chase usually seems more frustrating and exhausting than thrilling.

I think what Gator said is key:

Perhaps those who never have married recognize how serious it is, the high odds for divorce, the consequences of divorce.  They rather live alone.  Or they have met someone resembling my golfing buddy who remarked one day, "If I had murdered my wife when I first wanted to, I would be out of prison now."

From what I remember, most of the guys with a long ongoing search are never married, relatively younger (30s to early 40s) guys.

I’m in that boat and though I’d like to get married, I don’t need to get married. Being alone is a better option than the crap I’ve seen most of my friends go through and put up with. This makes me think very hard before taking that final plunge. Sad, but true.

[Boethius]

When my husband was seven, he asked his Grandfather what love was.  His Grandfather told him it was when a man feels a woman in his heart, not his member.

Think with your heart, not your penis, and nine times out of ten, you won't have crap in your life.

[Blues Fairy]

Think with your heart, not your penis and nine times out of ten, you won't have crap in your life...

...and leave the brain alone, too - and you'll be crap-free 10 times out of 10.  

[Jooky]

That's all very nice, but in regards to the comments about 'settling' above, I think many people do 'settle' and that's not a decision made from the heart.

[Boethius]

Exactly. 

Heed Dedushka's words.

[ECOCKS]

Unfortunately, I'm not so sure that searching for perfection is a real reason. For many it seems to just be a handy excuse.

[Gylden]

IMO, flexibility is one of the keys to life, in many respects. Knowing yourself is the key to being flexible. Obtaining a level of confidence lends one to better able to assess maters, without the conflict of insecurities interfering.

To sum it up. There is no true perfection, life is a culmination of compromises. I don't see that this is a problem in obtaining achievement, it is IMO only and aid to it.

[GQBlues]

GQ

I know you are a big proponent of the VM but, you actually swam the waters and came out on the other end with a wife. I am seeing more and more guys that just enjoy swimming the waters. Seemingly hoping they don't catch a wife. Those that do practice this subconsciously or not are not marriage material, are they?

The FSU adventure was a one shot deal with me. I would have been satisfied to be a one-n-done guy with this if things didn't work out on that trip. I'm not as glassy-eyed as many here seem to be about Russian women. AWs were never at all bad candidates for me.

As for your topic, there are men who do put a dark cloud to the term 'VM'. Anywhere from sex tourists to folks who make their own version of what WMVM ought to be and simply takes advantage of the opportunity in FSU with which they couldn't possibly do at home. Why not, after all, it takes two to tango.

Some have legitimate reasons for not getting married within an acceptable(?) time frame, others, well, legitimacy (justification) offers a multitude of each individual's personal definition. That's just life.

On the flip side, this MOB knife cuts both ways. Women of FSU aren't exactly naive either...

[Misha]

That's all very nice, but in regards to the comments about 'settling' above, I think many people do 'settle' and that's not a decision made from the heart.

Why? You can love someone including their imperfections, and hopefully they will love you in the same way in spite of your own flaws. The question is whether men are seeking a standard that no living woman could ever achieve. The question therefore is whether they are pursuing a mirage that they will never attain or meeting women to find one that they could love and would be willing to spend their lives with.

[Faux Pas]

The RW have a guideline that something is wrong with a man who has never been married by 40.  So don't worry about TBB - he has a few more years left.

I'm not worried about TBB or anyone else for that matter. The RW might be on to something as the very few AM I know that have not been married by 40, there usually is something wrong with them

I have no problem with a man not marrying.  Marriage is something sacred.  Perhaps those who never have married recognize how serious it is, the high odds for divorce, the consequences of divorce.  They rather live alone.  Or they have met someone resembling my golfing buddy who remarked one day, "If I had murdered my wife when I first wanted to, I would be out of prison now."

Perhaps I have been a bit misleading. I have no problem with men going to the FSU and not marrying. However, failing to develop any serious relationships that likely could lead to a marriage is highly questionable. Often we read about the guys who go, meet 20 women and go home. They beat around the boards and the next thing you know they are on another WMVM and the process repeats itself all over again.


I am by no means against WMVM and I know it is a difficult task to find a woman for a lifetime of happiness (Lord knows I know). I believe with proper due diligence whether a man is a WMVM or a WOVO he can find and meet women who have a demm good chance of being that life partner. Whether a man chooses to just meet 1 or 50 doesn't really matter, if he is not prepared to make a choice and some sacrifices. I don't think many of these guys are.

[Faux Pas]

Unfortunately, I'm not so sure that searching for perfection is a real reason. For many it seems to just be a handy excuse.

Ed I think we can agree that perfection won't be found. What in your mind is the most common reason?

[ECOCKS]

I think the biggest problem involves:

* Expectations of living a fantasy (bringing home the new trophy to show the other guys).

* Just living out their sex dreams.

[Misha]

However, failing to develop any serious relationships that likely could lead to a marriage is highly questionable. Often we read about the guys who go, meet 20 women and go home. They beat around the boards and the next thing you know they are on another WMVM and the process repeats itself all over again.

Perhaps it is tied to the addictive nature of the search itself. The numbers of eligible women willing to meet you dwarf the number of comparable women in most of our cities, and there are always new women signing up to dating sites such as the mamba network. There are always a seemingly unlimited number of new possibilities and the search itself can be intoxicating IMHO.

[GQBlues]

What in your mind is the most common reason?

Most common reason? Surely you know the reason, FP.   

No different than folks who drove into a wide open parking lot, which otherwise is a normally very crowded parking lot, only to take a relatively longer time deciding which 'open' space to park in.

So when folks come and say that they can date as many women at home as they please, then react the way they do to things they confront in places like the FSU, one ought to always take what is said with a grain of salt.

[Jooky]

* Just living out their sex dreams.

If you're talking about G-Rated sex dreams, that don't involve any actual sex, then I agree. 

[Faux Pas]

Most common reason? Surely you know the reason, FP.   

No different than folks who drove into a wide open parking lot, which otherwise is a normally very crowded parking lot, only to take a relatively longer time deciding which 'open' space to park in.

So when folks come and say that they can date as many women at home as they please, then react the way they do to things they confront in places like the FSU, one ought to always take what is said with a grain of salt.

Good analogy

If you're talking about G-Rated sex dreams, that don't involve any actual sex, then I agree. 

Jooky, if these guys do not have sex then likely they were not much of a player at home either thus, the attention alone was as good as sex. If they were a player at home I suspect most had no problem in the FSU either and likely R or XX rated dreams. Eventually, most men that travel these roads figure out that women are pretty universal.

[ECOCKS]

If you're talking about G-Rated sex dreams, that don't involve any actual sex, then I agree. 

Nope, those aren't the kind I'm talking about.

[Gylden]

Looking at divorce rates around the world, it seems obvious that there are plenty of men (and women) getting married in the first place for the wrong reasons. In today's high paced world IMO there is a underlying problem of not knowing ones self well enough to be able to understand the difference between the social expectations of marriage and the relationship itself.
The social expectations can be quite a broad area, everything to do with society i.e. arm candy, wife and kids (expectations of a family), fulfillment of a fantasy, etc.
If a person doesn't know themselves very well, the tendency to fall prey to the social expectations increases and depending on the individuals living environment including friends, job, education etc., will determine what course of action will be taken in this pursuit.

 

[Jooky]

Nope, those aren't the kind I'm talking about.

Maybe I've missed out on some juicy trip reports?

From what I remember, most of the guys making trip after trip to meet many women don't get too far with any of them.

I really think every situation is different and everyone is marriage material for someone.

There's a lot of luck and randomness involved. All I have to do is look back at my own experiences. I spent many hours a day chatting with one girl for 4 months. I was sure she was 'the one', but our in person meeting was a disaster. Then I make a by the seat of my pants decision to fly out and meet a girl who hadn't even seen my photo after one ten minute phone call. From the first few seconds I knew it was on. That led to a few years of serious dating.

Still, some guys make things tough on themselves expecting that instant chemistry. It doesn't always happen and lining up date after date can be counterproductive.

[Gator]

Think with your heart, not your penis, and nine times out of ten, you won't have crap in your life.

...and leave the brain alone, too - and you'll be crap-free 10 times out of 10.  

Both of you ladies are smart, observant and expressive; however, I think you are missing something.  The best relationship is one that marries mind, body and soul. 

The heart is the soul, and I appreciate its importance.  To ignore the brain and the penis is to ignore the mind and body. 

Blues Fairy, based on your long correspondence I would make a bet that you and your hubby seduced each other's mind long before you had deep heart-felt feelings or sexual feelings.  I am not expecting an answer.   

[Gator]

There is no true perfection, life is a culmination of compromises.

It is paramount to find perfection with regard to one aspect……reaching compromises and accommodations because such are a daily part of every relationship.

[GQBlues]

...In today's high paced world IMO there is a underlying problem of not knowing ones self well enough to be able to understand the difference between the social expectations of marriage and the relationship itself.

The social expectations can be quite a broad area, everything to do with society i.e. arm candy, wife and kids (expectations of a family), fulfillment of a fantasy, etc. If a person doesn't know themselves very well, the tendency to fall prey to the social expectations increases and depending on the individuals living environment including friends, job, education etc., will determine what course of action will be taken in this pursuit.

Yeppers, in a roundabout way that is what happened to me. Maybe I knew myself too well and consequently didn't feel marriage was something I needed/wanted/hoped for in my life until I began life in my 40s. I was having too much fun being single, and because of it I undoubtedly let go of an idealistically perfect woman who I was lucky enough to have shared a short time of my being - and unlucky to ever let go.

Such pressures of life with it's misgivings, gifts, smiles, sorrows that come a'tumblin' down the hill for each of us like a snowball becoming larger and larger as it barrels down in time only to melt upon the feet of those who waited much, much too long.

Men being marriage material, as Faux Pas queried, is a simple matter of individual choice - from 'want' to 'being'                                                Seeker  

[Gator]

Jooky,

A woman can easily put 2 and 2 together and realize that you have been in and out of Russia for a long time, yet you are still dating.   Do they say something about "your women,"  implying that you are a player?   Or do the RW accept this as they would with a RM?    

[Gylden]

It is paramount to find perfection with regard to one aspect……reaching compromises and accommodations because such are a daily part of every relationship.

Even in compromise I don't believe you can find true perfection. IMO in relationships the secret  about compromise is to find a partner who's demands don't exceed your abilities for compromising (from both sides).