The End of Men

[IAmZon]

Before I ready this article, I thought most of the gender decline was due to laziness on behalf of the male.  NOPE.  It looks like there is more substance to these changes than meets the eye!

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-end-of-men/8135/

[Vinnvinny]

I didn’t have time to read the whole article. Did it mention anywhere that we can expect a healthy increase to the payments made by sperm clinics as I could do with a new hobby and some extra income?

[Jooky]

I also was too lazy didn't have time to read the whole article, but I'll throw out some observations of what I like to call the 'men's liberation movement' that's being pioneered in California.

Here's what I see happening...

Women liberated themselves from the burdens of the 'house wife' and joined the workforce. Still, someone needs to care for children and the home. Over time, the job of the home maker was made easier (less children per family, less social pressure to maintain pressed clothes and a clean home) and passed along to modern appliances, fast food joints, tv dinners, child care services and nannies.

For a while men and women worked side by side in the workforce, while domestic chores, once the domain of the woman, were taken care of after work hours, by another woman (a nanny or maid) or not taken care of at all...

Then men got smart.

Realizing that life of a cubicle dwelling middle manager or key pusher sucks they broke free, finding opportunities to 'work from home' or become a stay at home dad. Easy enough to convince the wife. Man as a provider is out. Man as a slacker and player has been hot since the early 90s.

Sounds like I'm making all this up?  

I see this every day in Cali. I know a lot of stay at home dads. What do they do all day? Some run their home businesses. Most just walk the dog, go on hikes, take the kid to cool places (when the kid is not in school - and notice I say kid, not kids), smoke doobies, work on their motorcycles and play the video games I make.

Forget being a man. These guys get to be perpetual boys!

Women are clever though. They'll catch on soon enough and put their men back to work as providers...

Or maybe they won't.  

[Shostakovich]

Eh-heh, heh.

Saw this article on the news stand, thanks for saving me the 4 bits to read it, which I did, though at an increasing rate as it got to be more of the same old as I went on.

Quiet revolutions always interest me and indeed it seems to me the times now change far faster than they ever did when Dylan sang his song.  Women moving up?  No doubt.  Many of reasons were touched upon in the article.  For me the significant factors are:

1. Women are better and more patient learners - critical as mastery of difficult material is gating for participation in a more complex economy.
2. Women are better lateral, integrative thinkers, also important in the emerging economy that emphasizes collaborative, multi-disciplinary efforts.
3. Related to #2, women are often better and more natural communicators than men.
4. Physical strength is not a factor in the office.

So by in large, women, move up and the ones who move up the most are Asian and Indian women who, relative to their Western counterparts are by far the most patient and sacrificing learners. 

A factor that largely goes unwritten in the article is that this feminine advance goes and can go only so far.  Men have always been the creative force in the world and no amount of equality programs will change that.  I see it over and over in the sciences: the fellow with the checkered academic performance trumps the 4.0 chic when creative problem solving is required.  Men will occupy the advance guard, and thus generally lead.  But, truth be told, most organizations do not require much creative work or driving leadership.  In fact, the male vanguard increasingly favors a well-educated feminine workforce to execute its will -- less territory to defend you know, and males always need something to fight over.  I think men will out pace a women if they get their game on.  Increasingly, however, many males are getting passed over long before they even knew what hit them and women, just doing their work, did not know they were in a race.

You know that many people in the US are on a downward escalator.  Gonna be very interesting in the years ahead, I think.         

[IAmZon]

There is a sea change underway and it is going to be a long running narrative. 

So let me get this straight - the next generation is "the Age of Austerity and the Age of the Cougar"  I think I am going expat and sit this one out.

Check this out ... http://www.yesmrsrobinson.com/toyboy-tips/why-a-younger-man-should-date-an-older-woman/

[Jooky]

I think I am going expat and sit this one out.

Naw, think about it this way. While the 'modern young man' is chasing Mrs. Robinson, it leaves all the young chicks free for geezers like us. 

[OlgaH]

Envisioning a World Without Men
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=4725121&page=1

"Men are genetically modified women," explained Sykes. But unlike other chromosomes, the Y chromosome can't repair itself and will, says Sykes, disappear altogether in about 125,000 years.

Female-Only Reproduction
"Within the next few years you will get two women having a child who is the biological child of both of them," Sykes said. "And entirely normal in every respect, but always female."

[Shostakovich]

There is a sea change underway and it is going to be a long running narrative. 

So let me get this straight - the next generation is "the Age of Austerity and the Age of the Cougar"  I think I am going expat and sit this one out.

Check this out ... http://www.yesmrsrobinson.com/toyboy-tips/why-a-younger-man-should-date-an-older-woman/

Cougar Schmougar -- some things only happen in movies and newspaper articles. 

But I do think that as women gain ascendancy that men, as an expression of their inherent will to power, will identify with their more feminine aspects leading, perhaps to an increasingly amorphous sexuality.  I think that trend is already in play. 

Along with that will go the pathetic men's liberation movements.  Also too, truthfully, the decreasing pool of males in flush economic circumstances will have their pick of the girls.  And maybe too we'll see a faction of disenfranchised men who go hyper masculine route (or at least talk it up some).   

[OlgaH]

Along with that will go the pathetic men's liberation movements. 

If you, men, will not be in the IUCN Red List along with other endangered species by that time 

While the 'modern young man' is chasing Mrs. Robinson, it leaves all the young chicks free for geezers like us. 

geezers? In Russia we usually use "старый козёл"  and/or "стрекозёл" 

[Gator]

One of my 30-yo son's  friends has long pursued the older doctors and lawyers.   He is good looking, charming and evidently a good lover.  He is also lazy and looking for the easy, quick way (his grades in school were the minimally acceptable). 

He moves in with these cougarettes and for some reason unknown to me lasts only a year or two. 

My son hardly sees him now because he supposedly is doing the oxycontin thing.

[Gator]

geezers? In Russia we usually use "старый козёл"  and/or "стрекозёл" 

Geezer is a somewhat derogatory term used to describe older men, often having some odd ways about them. 

OlgaH, please help me with the Russian expression "старый козёл."   My impression is that "old goat" is more derogatory than geezer.   A man must be old to be an "old goat," but not all old men are "old goats."  To be an old goat a man must also chase young dyevs with lewd intentions.

[brad5959]

the problem with women who think they want "equal" rights is that they are not very good at math to begin with. 

[Boethius]

The article was not about equal rights, brad.  However, why would you object to women wanting equal rights?

 

[brad5959]

the answer is right there in front of your face.  if you don't think the article pertains to "equal" rights than you should re-read it.  feminazi's don't want equal rights, they want superior rights.

[brad5959]

The article was not about equal rights, brad.  However, why would you object to women wanting equal rights?

 

that's like saying why would you object to picking up the check, and for the next five thousand years??  don't talk about equal rights until you want to also talk about equal responsibilities.  men and women are not equal, they are different and that is the way they prefer it to be.

[kievstar]

Brad, I agree women and men are different and equal rights makes no sense for everything. 

[Boethius]

that's like saying why would you object to picking up the check, and for the next five thousand years??  don't talk about equal rights until you want to also talk about equal responsibilities.  men and women are not equal, they are different and that is the way they prefer it to be.

Did a feminist spit in your soup, Brad?

Most women have no problem picking up cheques, or in having equal responsibilities.   Most working mothers, on average, have, I think, more responsibilities than most working fathers.

Different and equal are very different concepts.  And, incidentally, I'll put my math skills up against yours any day.

[Jooky]

What rights do you guys think women shouldn't have?

[Boethius]

the answer is right there in front of your face.  if you don't think the article pertains to "equal" rights than you should re-read it.  feminazi's don't want equal rights, they want superior rights.

From the article:

“The attributes that are most valuable today—social intelligence, open communication, the ability to sit still and focus—are, at a minimum, not predominantly male,” explains Rosin, who also makes the point, “The well-paid lifetime union job has been disappearing for at least 30 years.”

The point of the article is there is a profound shift occurring in society.  It has nothing to do with "equal rights".  I don't happen to agree with the article's conclusion, but that's neither here nor there. 

[brad5959]

Did a feminist spit in your soup, Brad?

Most women have no problem picking up cheques, or in having equal responsibilities.   Most working mothers, on average, have, I think, more responsibilities than most working fathers.

Different and equal are very different concepts.  And, incidentally, I'll put my math skills up against yours any day.

you mean most women have no problem picking up the support check from their boyfriends or husbands.  I know you are not claiming that women will offer to pay for lunch or dinner, the mortgage payment, etc etc.  which men have been doing for five thousand or more years.  so really, if you want to be equal--than you and all the other feminists can pick up the checks for the next five thousand years, than we can talk about "equality".  since we both know that's not going to happen, I will be happy with a woman with traditional values--i.e. she puts her family before her career, and she is willing to be a stay at home full time mother and wife during their child's youth.  In case you are not aware, when you factor in all of the extra costs of two people working (gas, insurance, two car payments, etc etc) the american family was better off in the 1950's in real income when the man worked outside of the home, and the woman traditionally worked inside of the home. 

as for math skills, that was a joke which went right over your head, but unfortunately it's also true.  a woman's concept of 50/50 is more like 80/20.

[Shostakovich]

What rights do you guys think women shouldn't have?

The rights anything has is determined by what they can do.

[brad5959]

The rights anything has is determined by what they can do.

that's a good point, but in reality it is not true.  take female firefighters for example.  they often do not have the upper body strength to do the job, but because of lawsuits and imposed "equal rights"--even though they were not equal to men, or capable of doing the job properly, cities are forced to hire them.  I pity the child who dies in a fire, in order to offer "equal" rights to a woman who is inferior and incapable of properly doing the job.

[BC]

Blame it on the pill..

Can't just knock em up anymore and expect them to stay home.

It's a worldwide phenomena.

With all the film star and music group publicity, not to mention men's desire for girl/girl and/or femdom porn that increasingly piques womens curiosity and interest, it's becoming quite acceptable socially for girl girl relationships to form and exist without being frowned upon, much more so than with men/men.  Almost mainstream.

Guess we got what we wished for!.. LOL  Women love power just as much as men do.

Yeah, we're doomed, likely destined for servitude and for occasional entertainment purposes.  For those with good genetic properties a few forced visits to the sperm bank in our 20's will provide our 5 minutes of fame and fulfill procreational instincts.

Get used to it.

[Boethius]

I knew you were joking about the math, Brad, but Ukrainians have a saying which translates roughly to "in every joke there is the kernel of a joke and a large part of the truth" (meaning your particular perception).

I don't know any women who are picking up "support cheques" from boyfriends or husbands.  I do know women who stay at home raising children while their husbands work, and I know men who stay home to raise children while their wives work.  This is not a "quid pro quo", but the structure of a family.

so really, if you want to be equal--than you and all the other feminists can pick up the checks for the next five thousand years, than we can talk about "equality".   Since we both know that's not going to happen,

I know plenty of women who pick up the cheque for lunch.  I regularly make our mortgage payment, and I know plenty of other women who do as well.   And you know what, Brad?  I worked while my husband stayed home with our kids.  I worked right up to my due date in each of my pregnancies, in fact, I was closing a deal when I went into labour with my third child.  I worked during my maternity leaves.  I have been the primary bread winner in our family since my husband emigrated so you are barking up the wrong tree when you yap about my personal situation.  After our second, my husband returned to work, he works evenings, I work days so one of us is always home with our kids.  I still outearn him, by a fairly wide margin.  But, it's not mine/his, it is ours.

I will be happy with a woman with traditional values--i.e. she puts her family before her career, and she is willing to be a stay at home full time mother and wife during their child's youth.  In case you are not aware, when you factor in all of the extra costs of two people working (gas, insurance, two car payments, etc etc) the american family was better off in the 1950's in real income when the man worked outside of the home, and the woman traditionally worked inside of the home.

Most women do put their families above their careers.  Most women work out of necessity, not desire, and your idealized view of the family unit is one that existed only for a very small layer of US society for a very small period of time.   US wages have been stagnant since the 1970's.  That is why most women work.  However, a smart woman knows that putting all her reliance on a man is a mistake.  Even a good man can lose a job, and there are plenty of men who decide to "trade up".  With the rise of the "feminazi" has also been a corresponding rise in Peter Pan men.

While women pick up the cheques for the next 5,000 years, perhaps you can raise the next 3,000 generations of children.

[OlgaH]

Geezer is a somewhat derogatory term used to describe older men, often having some odd ways about them. 

OlgaH, please help me with the Russian expression "старый козёл."   My impression is that "old goat" is more derogatory than geezer.   A man must be old to be an "old goat," but not all old men are "old goats."  To be an old goat a man must also chase young dyevs with lewd intentions.

Gator, I really don't know how more the term "old goat" is derogatory than "geezers", but the "old goat" in Russia usually is applied to any man who is chasing much younger than him dyevas (maidens) with lewd intentions or not.

One of my 30-yo son's  friends has long pursued the older doctors and lawyers.   He is good looking, charming and evidently a good lover.  He is also lazy and looking for the easy, quick way (his grades in school were the minimally acceptable).  

The same we can say about some young women who are looking for the easy, quick way and will not think for long time to be a lover for an older man (who could be her father) or marry him for the same purpose