"I think what we have here is a failure to communicate..."

[OlgaH]

"resting close to nature" ?
Would you say this is tent camping? or a spa? or weekend at the dacha? A picnic? etc.

There is no doubt that the OP didn't quite understand exactly.

I don't know all the English expression, sometimes I have just an idea what an expression means, but I see nothing wrong to ask what exactly it means and to see if I'm right or wrong in my guessing and I have never considered it to be a mockery if somebody asks me. Time to time it happens when somebody ask me "Olga, I did not get it. What does it mean?" especially when I use a Russian expression in English translation

[Gylden]

I don't know all the English expression, sometimes I have just an idea what an expression means, but I see nothing wrong to ask what exactly it means and to see if I'm right or wrong in my guessing and I have never considered it to be a mockery if somebody asks me. Time to time it happens when somebody ask me "Olga, I did not get it. What does it mean?" especially when I use a Russian expression in English translation

100% agree, it happens to me with Norwegian all the time.

[OlgaH]

Precious moments of my first days in US

Robert was discussing a case with a lawyer. Of course there were things lost in translation for me. I heard "dead duck". During our lunch with that lawyer I was still bothered with that "dead duck" I quietly asked Robert "Does a man kill a duck?". The lawyer heard it and I was not offended with his laugh and "Olga, you know, that was cute"

When I was trying to explain my headache to our doctor I pronounced "hammer" as "hummer". For God's sake I even did know such word. Our doctor and the nurses that were around almost wet their panties. When they explained me it was my turn to laugh.

In a store: "What a cute strip dress". Robert looked at a salesmen: "She meant stripe dress".

I have never been offended with smiles, laughing, "cute", "funny".  If it is funny it is funny. Sometimes it is really difficult to restrain yourself from laughing. I think it is understandable and I never felt uncomfortable. 

[Ranetka]

When I was trying to explain my headache to our doctor I pronounced "hammer" as "hummer". For God's sake I even did know such word. Our doctor and the nurses that were around almost wet their panties. When they explained me it was my turn to laugh.

Yeah, on my second year in the UK my ESOL teacher explained I would be better off saying I can not instead of  I can't. Same very reason,  ham or hum can or cun  still the same sheet   to me.

[I/O]

She too has much to learn about communicating with foreigners.

She certainly does and the first thing she needs to realise, as do a few others in this caper, Russian is NOT a worldwide international language, English is. You wanna play in the international scene, figure out how to speak and figure out how to "communicate" effectively.

If this had happened over a cafe' table in Russia then I see it differently, he's there, it's up to him to fit in but such is not the case, they are on an international platform online, sulky childish tantrums don't cut it.

[Manny]

[2:44:19 AM] ME: you are driving out of the city?
[2:44:26 AM] RW: for resting close to Nature
 [2:44:42 AM] ME: i love this about you guys
[2:45:02 AM] RW: ??
[2:45:40 AM] ME: "resting in nature"
 [2:45:51 AM] RW: hm

"You guys" is an Americanism. Translated literally it will refer to men. Confusion starts there. One should speak in international English rather than use Americanisms. Avoid slang and abbreviations.

Putting 'resting in nature' in double quotes might be him highlighting bad English; laughing at her. (Not all English versions use double quotes for everything).

Note the "Hm" where her cogs start turning.......

[2:46:06 AM] ME: what does "resting in nature" mean exactly?
[2:46:18 AM] ME: like a vacation?
[2:46:33 AM] RW: r u telling about my chinese english maybe?

There go the double quotes again. The next line shows he knew what she actually meant. By 'Chinese English' she means foreign English.

[2:47:40 AM] ME: in Russia do many people have weekend rest in nature type houses?
[2:49:46 AM] RW: yes
[2:49:59 AM] RW: can imagene?
[2:50:20 AM] RW: imagine
[2:50:23 AM] RW: : ))
[2:50:25 AM] ME: this is great
[2:50:32 AM] ME: i want a house like this
[2:51:16 AM] ME: maybe i should move into one and live in the woods 8-)

Dachas are serious things for Russians. A flippant comment meant in jest was obviously taken as a further put down.

[2:52:58 AM] ME: tell me what you do when you "rest in nature" all weekend
[2:53:24 AM] ME: do you swim?

Again, double quotes suggesting something about that phrase. Now she knows she is being spoken down to and starts to think she is a freak show.

[2:53:49 AM] RW:  that's why don't cavil at every word
 [2:54:29 AM] RW: I don't like ur style of communication
[2:54:29 AM] ME: cavil?

He shows here he doesn't know his own language by querying the word. The definition of "cavil" is "to raise irritating and trivial objections; find unnecessary fault with". Yup, for sure she didn't like it. She thought he was laughing at her.

[2:54:48 AM] RW:  that's why wish u good night and bye
[2:54:56 AM] ME: what is wrong?
[2:55:26 AM] ME: I don’t understand RW
[2:56:17 AM] RW: u r talking with mockery
[2:56:32 AM] ME: i don’t mean to be
 [2:57:23 AM] ME: I'm sorry if i insulted you RW
[2:57:33 AM] ME: if i did so it was unintentional
[2:57:51 AM] RW: because u r not so clever man it seems

She knows words you don't. To her, you just busted your credibility. Added to what she thought was laughing at her, it is time for her to exit.

[2:58:13 AM] RW: I don't like american like american don't like russian

Many women don't like the idea of an American (yes, really). Many will open their mind to the possibility. Our hero proved to her (in her mind) that the stereotype she probably knows is true. She freaked out and made a sharp exit.

To the OP: Next time, speak international English. Avoid the "you guys", "y'all" and similar Americanisms. Use double quotes less. Do not highlight a strange (to you) phrase and beat it to death. Avoid humour and sarcasm; they don't translate so well. She apparently looks good enough to post provocative pictures, and is in Moscow. Moscow has opportunity for pretty girls. Remember that. You are not the prize; she is. You should treat her that way. I guess its safe to assume you are at least a decade older than her? If yes, she doesn't have to try so hard. Times, they are a changing.

For the OP, this is inexperience in international communication only. He meant well, but bungled. For her, he was mocking her English and then proved he didn't understand his own language by querying an entirely correct word she used. She confirms that here:

[2:57:51 AM] RW: because u r not so clever man it seems

And that is enough for her to make her exit. As she did.

[OlgaH]

She certainly does and the first thing she needs to realise, as do a few others in this caper, Russian is NOT a worldwide international language, English is. You wanna play in the international scene, figure out how to speak and figure out how to "communicate" effectively.

I met once a woman with attitude who said "I write him only in Russian. If he wants to communicate with me he must translate and I told him to send me letters only in Russia. When I translate his English I can not understand what he writes"  

It is never hurt to ask if you don't understand and learn, but attitudes, ill imagination and suspicions will not help.

I would say a guy should not be surprised if he will ask a woman "Have you already had a lunch today" and get an answer "Do you, Americans, think we Russians can not afford a lunch"  

I just can imagine how she would react if an Australian man "threw" a little bit of his Australian slang  

If a woman doesn't like the idea of an American, Australian, Chinese or whatever she better to mention about it in advance in her profile than to chat with her already attitude. 

[cranehand]

Remember what I SAID ABOUT MISSUNDERSTANDINGS T-n-B.  You will see that much of what you say is taken in a literal sense, not only in skype but also in voice communications.  Our American humor is not well understood in FSU.  You were being yourself and that is most important.  She did not like it OH WELL!!!! move on.  The more time you spend diong this the easier it will become.  If you do not have High speed internet your voice and video will be crap on skype.  You also must understand that infrastructure in the FSE is not good.  Moscow is cutting edge compared to 90% of the 9 different time zones in the country and it is still not that good. 

My suggestion (KISS) system (KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID) This is not meant to be insulting,  but untill you find someone you really click with.  When she says resting in nature. Agree with her then mention maybe that you also like going to forest, going to beach or going to garden. Don't focus on specifics just yet.  Chances are that you can relate to the statements.  They do not get sarcasim even if your are joking, she obviously thought you were being rude and condecending.  Don't sweat the petty s**t. To many fish buddy.

BTWhttp://imtranslator.com is also a good one with back translation you will see that many words we us have completely different meanings.  If she starts using words that YOU need to lookup then lookout. have fun.  Russian language seems to me, a very straight forward language. Not alot of small talk.  In this journey if you can find someone that gets your jokes and understands when you are joking and can return to you this feeling then you have struck GOLD go with it.

[OlgaH]

Remember what I SAID ABOUT MISSUNDERSTANDINGS T-n-B.  You will see that much of what you say is taken in a literal sense, not only in skype but also in voice communications.  

Yes, misunderstanding are unavoidable, but it is about how people handle misunderstandings 

Our American humor is not well understood in FSU.  

as Russian in US. I already experienced it. 

You were being yourself and that is most important.  She did not like it OH WELL!!!! move on.  The more time you spend diong this the easier it will become.  

That's right. Be yourself.

Using Americanisms? I have been living for 4 years in US and everyday I learn some new Americanisms. I even bought a dictionary "Talkin' American" so when I watch American movies or comedians I can understand what exactly they say 

[brad5959]

Olga H,

I'm just curious.  what did they tell you that Hummer means?? 

[cranehand]

Olga,

You should check out (Talkin Texan)  It has Texanisims 
 

Get your head out of the gutter Brad

[Misha]

Manny, you did a great job of explaining why she was frustrated. I would add, that if a woman puts herself down, you should not agree with her for God's sake. If she says that her English is not good (however she may phrase it) you disagree and say that you are impressed with how well she speaks. If you can't think of anything positive to say, then better to say nothing!

[ECOCKS]

Be yourself.

Low-class, sophisticated, vulgar, suave, rich, poor, goofus or glib snake-oil salesman makes no difference in the long run. If you pretend to be something you're not, then you're screwed.

[OlgaH]

Olga H,

I'm just curious.  what did they tell you that Hummer means?? 

Common Brad, you know, of course a truck what else  BTW they also told me that at Office Max I better to ask for eraser instead of rubber 

cranehand,

thanks for Texanisims. I still try to understand what our local rednecks say   

[OlgaH]

OlgaH,
If Tag did not understand "resting close to nature" he should have asked an open ended question such as "What type of nature do you prefer?"  Her comment would reveal more.  

Gator, about understanding of a foreign expression or having a slight idea about it  I wrote above. Actually Tag asked her "what does "resting in nature" mean exactly? like a vacation?"  And what did she reveal?

[Gator]

Misunderstandings happen in both directions.

During my first year I tried to say "one minute" in Russian to a waitress when she asked for our order.

It came out as my ordering one of OlgaH's trucks.

My date laughed.  The waitress did not.  Upon explanation, I had a big laugh.  

Dating RW is fraught with misunderstandings and mistakes, some rather serious.  It is important to show patience and to give each other the benefit of the doubt.  Until you marry, then everything is the man's fault.

[OlgaH]

Misunderstandings happen in both directions.
 It is important to show patience and to give each other the benefit of the doubt. 

Gator, exactly for both sides.

[brad5959]

Common Brad, you know, of course a truck what else  BTW they also told me that at Office Max I better to ask for eraser instead of rubber 

cranehand,

thanks for Texanisims. I still try to understand what our local rednecks say   

that's hilarious.  it's great that you have a sense of humor.   

[Jooky]

I disagree with the comments about humor.

The Simpsons, Jim Carrey, Will Ferrel, Pixar, South Park, you name it... all kinds of American comedies are popular in Russia. Some people like silly humor, some like sarcasm, some have no sense of humor at all. Just like anywhere else.

Your sense of humor is what is going to attract the right woman! If you have to walk on eggshells around a woman rather than be yourself, move on.

This woman is a prime example of why some hot young girls are looking abroad. She flips out over nothing two days in row. She has a grudge against Americans, yet she spends her time chatting with an American old enough to be her dad.
Trust me, however sexy her thong tied derriere might be, the marriage prospects aren't lining up outside her door.

Tag-n-Bag, just be yourself and you'll find a match. And if you don't find anyone, you're better off looking back home.

[OlgaH]

Jooky, yes all American comedies popular in Russia are with the adapted  translation  

When you are familiar with a joke's subject there will not be problem to understand the joke.

[I/O]

Trust me, however sexy her thong tied derriere might be, the marriage prospects aren't lining up outside her door.

I tend to agree.

[chivo]

"You guys" is an Americanism. Translated literally it will refer to men. Confusion starts there. One should speak in international English rather than use Americanisms. Avoid slang and abbreviations.

While I agree that you should simplify things when talking to another person where English is a 2nd language, "you guys" is a very well known phrase here in Moscow to mean a group of people as opposed to just men.

Putting 'resting in nature' in double quotes might be him highlighting bad English; laughing at her. (Not all English versions use double quotes for everything)
Note the "Hm" where her cogs start turning.......

There go the double quotes again. The next line shows he knew what she actually meant. By 'Chinese English' she means foreign English.

Maybe, maybe not. You're making too many assumptions here IMO.

Dachas are serious things for Russians. A flippant comment meant in jest was obviously taken as a further put down.

Again, double quotes suggesting something about that phrase. Now she knows she is being spoken down to and starts to think she is a freak show.

Dachas are not that serious, come on. Most, with all due respect, are little holes in the wall outside the city center that need constant work. Just a place they can go to get away from the hustle and bustle and not even used in the winter.

He shows here he doesn't know his own language by querying the word. The definition of "cavil" is "to raise irritating and trivial objections; find unnecessary fault with". Yup, for sure she didn't like it. She thought he was laughing at her.

Russians when learning English for instance, use many words that are out of some textbook or a book written by an author like O'Henry that haven't been used in centuries.
http://www.ask.com/bar?q=phrases+by+O+Henry&page=1&qsrc=2417&dm=all&ab=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.literature-web.net%2Fo_henry%2F&sg=e9%2FJb6oV5s3ae9zIzvtXutL0eOaVA3madMFwRkjZqcI%3D%0D%0A&tsp=1280733818328 Read a couple of his short stories to get my drift. Stories they won't really understand but like because of the phrasing, and many are apt to pluck a strange word or two out of it and start using it.

One example is of a student of mine who told me when asked about his weekend that he was "perambulating" with his child on Saturday. Oh, ok . He now knows simply to say "went for a walk with" and we laugh about the word as I use it to talk about walking with people on occasion. He also has a normal sense of humor without the pretense of being special unlike this RW.  

She knows words you don't. To her, you just busted your credibility. Added to what she thought was laughing at her, it is time for her to exit.

Seriously, how many times has any native speaker truthfully heard or used the word "cavil" in their lifetime in a conversation? Not read it heard or used it? If you said over 3 I think you're either lying or weird.

Many women don't like the idea of an American (yes, really). Many will open their mind to the possibility. Our hero proved to her (in her mind) that the stereotype she probably knows is true. She freaked out and made a sharp exit.

The vast majority of RW like Americans. One of the reasons I like it here so much is because the Russians treat me better than the Americans do. Yes a FEW don't like America/ns, but there is no comparison to the number who do.

If you're talking about the distance as compared to Europe then you'd have a bit of a case, but nothing that any normal guy couldn't overcome.

To the OP: Next time, speak international English. Avoid the "you guys", "y'all" and similar Americanisms. Use double quotes less. Do not highlight a strange (to you) phrase and beat it to death. Avoid humour and sarcasm; they don't translate so well.

100% agree with this. But let's not underestimate the level of English in Russia these days. If we were talking about 5-10 years ago then I'd be more understanding of HER actions, but not today.

Especially the English level in Moscow.

She apparently looks good enough to post provocative pictures, and is in Moscow. Moscow has opportunity for pretty girls. Remember that. You are not the prize; she is. You should treat her that way. I guess its safe to assume you are at least a decade older than her? If yes, she doesn't have to try so hard. Times, they are a changing.

Again, no she isn't. She's a dime a dozen here and it's the men who are the prize here if you are decent, make a decent living, and have some things going for you. Age is down on that list. Believe me my cup runneth over with pretty RW who are 20 yrs younger than me.

Just for the record, yes every woman you're interested in should be treated special.

For the OP, this is inexperience in international communication only. He meant well, but bungled. For her, he was mocking her English and then proved he didn't understand his own language by querying an entirely correct word she used. She confirms that here:

And that is enough for her to make her exit. As she did.

Yes he bungled. And the bottom line is correct as you and others have pointed out, he is inexperienced. His intentions were not rude or condescending. Hopefully he learned from it, but let's be honest here. He was going nowhere with this woman, and it's not surprising that she's looking for foreign men because she seems like a woman no RM (or foreigner living here for that matter) worth his salt would put up with.

Just a side bar; I was talking to a well-respected, well-travelled Russian lawyer friend of mine recently about an argument 2 people were having over the quality of education here in Russia at the university level (as compared to the USA). I told him how it escalated into a rude conversation and he quickly said this "don't tell me, the Russian was the one who became rude'. I asked why he said this and he said, and I quote "if someone tells me that 2 people are talking and things got rude and out of control, I'm sure it was the Russian who started it".

Now I'm sure it's not always the case, but you want to talk about stereotypes, we can start there.

[BillyB]

If they are like that woman it's not such a big loss 

 She was polite saying good bye to Tag n Bag. Many RW would just ignore a guy when they get tired of him. Who knows? If she met a man that knew how to tickle her fancy, she may be a great woman for that guy.

Even though Tag n Bag was American and we think the RW he talked to doesn't think highly of Americans, the RW gave him 20 minutes of her time but Tag n Bag failed to make an impression on her. If Tag n Bag projected himself better, she may want to learn more about him and even give him her number. If a woman feels that man she's communicating with is a quality man, she won't want to lose him.

[I/O]

Greenhorn meets Beotch, result, effall, next....................

[ECOCKS]

some good stuff in here but quoting these really long posts takes up space and the message gets swallowed.

Some comments.....

I agree that they (guy and the gal) are both the prizes in each's stated attempt at a relationship across cultures and nationalities.

Americans pretty much use the " symbol as quotes and for emphasis, rarely the ' which is most often considered only an apostrophe for use with possessives.

The old textbooks used to teach English in Russia along with the UK's success in marketing all those reprinted O'Henry and Agatha Christie stories does put some weird vocabulary words and phrases back into play. My wife still doesn't understand why hardly anyone in America ever says "My, that was tasty!"

He was too informal, she was typically in that defensive mode we all know and love in FSUW.

Dachas are usually minimalist retreats. People on the other side of the world tend to picture summer cabins at the lake but the ones I saw in Ukraine are mostly less than 80 sqm and many still have outdoor plumbing.

Does anyone really think this relationship had a chance given their personalities, inexperience and immaturity in approaching an international Internet chat with the goal of eventually getting married?