Ah yes, Russia, now in the Enlightened Era

[ECOCKS]

Sweet, friendly Russia.....

Russian police arrest Kremlin opponent at rally

http://www.kyivpost.com/news/russia/detail/76323/

[acctBill]

The Kremlin is breaking the Russian Constitution, who'd have thought that could happen in Russia.  I wouldn't worry, Boris Nemtsov will soon hire a lawyer who is an expert on the Russian constitution and he'll get the charges thrown out of court, probably sue the Kremlin for damages. 

[ECOCKS]

Maybe the US will get lucky and he'll hire Oblamer to be his lawyer......

[Shadow]

Lets see what the idea is here.
There was a rally of 100 people on the Red Square for which no permission was asked or granted. In such cases the organiser of the rally is held responsible, and will be arrested.

Freedom ? Go stand with 100 people on Times Square or in front of the White House unannounced and without permission and see how long you can stay there without anyone being arrested.

Obeying the law is of course only needed for those who follow the government. Those who call themselves leftist freedom fighters have the right to break the law.

[Boethius]

You're barking up the wrong tree on that one, Shadow.  The Teabaggers frequently have fairly raucous protests.  The only one I can remember being shut down was the one in front of the White House, and even then, the Secret Service only shut it down when someone in the crowd threw a box over the fence.  Look at all the protests of Arizona's immigration law.  None of those protests has been shut down either.

[Ranetka]

You're barking up the wrong tree on that one, Shadow.  The Teabaggers frequently have fairly raucous protests.  The only one I can remember being shut down was the one in front of the White House, and even then, the Secret Service only shut it down when someone in the crowd threw a box over the fence.  Look at all the protests of Arizona's immigration law.  None of those protests has been shut down either.

What is the law in the US, does permission need to be granted to held a rally/protest?

[Boethius]

I'm not American, but I believe such a law would be unconstitutional.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

[brad5959]

most rallies do require "permission" and/or advance notification.  for example a rally by KKK.  imagine if they did not get advance notification.  there would be violence without the police escort/protection.  I think the difference is that in the USA the permission for a rally is given, where as in Russia it is almost always denied.

[ECOCKS]

Most "permits" involve one of two scenarios. When the use of facilities/services (auditoriums, electrical outlets, grills, exclusive use of parking lots, security provisions, etc.) is desired or the blocking/use of roadways, entrances, exits, security zones and the like will be necessary.

Until the WTC attacks and the subsequent enlargement of the White House security zone, you could, in fact show up, out in front of the WH whenever the mood struck you and shout, camp, have a party, occasionally even smoke a joint or six and protest whatever you desired without "permission" or hassle from authorities as long as you stayed away from the fence, gate and didn't block traffic or bother the tourists with anything more than your voice. Some folks had semi-permanent tent homes across the street in the park. Times Square is much the same, make your own sign get a hundred of your closest friends and walk around and protest all day. Just don't touch anyone, impede access to businesses or residence, watch the noise level and don't advocate insurrection, racial violence or mayhem.

For the most part, our Constitution is still taken seriously. Well, except by the current President.

[Gtex]

Shadow:  

Are you not aware of the background of the series of "31" protests?  Your comments sound down right "Old School" Stalin in attitude.  Are you also agreeing with Putin on the "Greatest Tragedy of the Twentieth Century!"  

As for uninformed, you can still yell, scream and shout across the street from the White House with out much notice.  During Reagan days there was a drum beat on the second, 24/7 for more than a year.  

There is no limit to the expression of outrage that will be repressed there (Russia); as there is no limit to the stupidity we indulge here.  You should feel at ease when visiting (here).  As for obeying the law, some governments do not obey their own (laws).  

Could be time for a new script in those super heavy lenses, and drop the side-blinders, your getting tunnel vision...
or could be cataracts.

[Shadow]

I guess that the American habits are different from the European.
Any demonstration in Holland which was unnanounced or not given permission for would have the same effect. It is a matter of public safety.

Regardless of the cause, the right to assembly is not equal to the right to stand anywhere you want without permission, just like freedom of speech is not freedom to say whatever you like.

[Boethius]

Yet there was nothing in the protest linked which would have been prohibited in the US (or Canada, for that matter), either on the grounds of speech or assembly.

[Shadow]

Yet there was nothing in the protest linked which would have been prohibited in the US (or Canada, for that matter), either on the grounds of speech or assembly.

The subject does not have to be prohibited to make the demonstration itself prohibited.
Basicly if there would be 100 people standing to support the government without permission the same may happen. It would just not reach the newsin Ukraine...

[acctBill]

I guess that the American habits are different from the European.
Any demonstration in Holland which was unnanounced or not given permission for would have the same effect. It is a matter of public safety.

Regardless of the cause, the right to assembly is not equal to the right to stand anywhere you want without permission, just like freedom of speech is not freedom to say whatever you like.

Shadow surely you've been to London, demonstrations there all the time very few have permits and if they're reasonably orderly the police will standby and watch.  

[Boethius]

The subject does not have to be prohibited to make the demonstration itself prohibited.
Basicly if there would be 100 people standing to support the government without permission the same may happen. It would just not reach the newsin Ukraine...

How many pro government demonstrations have been broken up, with arrests, by police in Russia? 

[ECOCKS]

About as many as were honestly conceived by the grateful, average citizens as a form of thanks and appreciation for their leadership which has worked so diligently to improve the quality of their lives?

[Shadow]

Shadow surely you've been to London, demonstrations there all the time very few have permits and if they're reasonably orderly the police will standby and watch.  

Actually I never saw any demostration in London, nor do they reach the news. 

[Shadow]

How many pro government demonstrations have been broken up, with arrests, by police in Russia? 

Ask ECOCKS, he is following those kind of things.
I am just pointing out that Mr Nemtsov seems to be in dire need of money and/or publicity as his party leader Mr Kasparov seems to have disappeared.
I find it very interesting that the new episode which took place during the St Petersburg convention was not reported here. It would have made a much more interesting case against the Russian government if the report I read but could not get confirmation of was to be true. 

[Shadow]

Just for the information.

Permission for the demonstration was applied for by the opposition, however was denied on July 19. The reason was that an auto and motor event was held on Triumphalnaya square July 30 to August 1.

Opposition was offered to hold their rally on other places in the city, but they denied that offer. They believe that the date and place is theirs and any permission for another event is an effort by the authorities to prohibit their rights of gathering.

Without a doubt they will try again next month, as they try every 31st. Lets see what happens then.

[tim 360]

How many pro government demonstrations have been broken up, with arrests, by police in Russia? 

"Without law and order our nation cannot survive".  Adolph Hitler

[Shadow]

"Without law and order our nation cannot survive".  Adolph Hitler

4. Hitler and “Law and Order”

The following statement is cited less often today than it was during the 1960s, as news of its falsity has gotten around, but it still shows up on a number of web sites:

    “The streets of our cities are in turmoil. The universities are filled with students rebelling and rioting. Communists are seeking to destroy our country. Russia is threatening us with her might and the Republic is in danger. Yes, danger from within and without. We need law and order! Yes, without law and order our national cannot survive. . . . Elect us and we shall restore law and order. We shall, by law and order, be respected among the nations of the world. Without law and order our Republic shall fail.”

There are lot of things wrong with this statement, beginning with the fact that Hitler wanted the Republic to fail, and was open about it. It had its origins in a communist newspaper, and popped up in the movie Billy Jack (1971). For full details, see that most useful book by Paul F. Boller, Jr. and John George, They Never Said It: A Book of Fake Quotes, Misquotes, & Misleading Attributions (New York: Oxford, 1989), pp. 45-46.

[tim 360]

"Without law and order our nation cannot survive".  Adolph Hitler: November 6, 1933

[Shadow]

"Without law and order our nation cannot survive".  Adolph Hitler: November 6, 1933

Fake quote, just as fake as the constant propaganda spread against Russia, in the hope people will regard it once again as the Big Enemy.

[brad5959]

shadow, are you a Russian propagandist/spy planted in western europe by Putin?? 

[Ranetka]

Just as I thought. Shadow did the work for me. Nomtsov asked for the permit knowing the place was already taken, showed up so he could be photographed when taken away by the police. Publicity stunt.