she was a scammer all right (lost $1200)

[GQBlues]

FWIW, my experience with unsolicited emails are the ones I get in my mailbox every single time following my signing in with RWD.

I don't have any profiles on any site, nor get them in my other email addy, yet I get 'em with the same email addy I used when I signed on with RWD. I wonder what the percentages are these women (from those unsolicited emails) are real and sincere?

[Gylden]

I sent my wife money before we met too. It was for tickets etc. to meet me in the place I chose. I have a feeling the rules about sending money apply more to the following circumstances;

If you are a man like this... who is in contact with a woman like this...DON'T SEND MONEY!!

[LEGAL]

Olgah, you know friendfinder is a porn site for men and women to meet.  What are you doing on that site?

kievstar Do you know OlgaH is NOT Olga_Mouse

[Vinnvinny]

Well, that isn't restricted to FSU scammers.   The same can be said of a myriad of Nigerian scams, Western pyramid schemes, free holidays, free gym memberships, etc.

IMO you are comparing apples with oranges here. There is no 25% of $250 million waiting to be collected once I reveal my bank details to a relative of the late Prince Obayomi. Anyone who believes that there might be is an idiot. A pyramid scheme is not specifically a scam, just an unsustainable business model with the entry being high risk. As for free holidays, a gym membership etc then nothing is for free and again, anyone who believes that it might be is an idiot.

The MOB scam industry is significantly different to those examples you mentioned as it mirrors the possibility of a loving a caring relationship leading to marriage with a lady from the FSU. This is exactly the same that the genuine segment of the industry offers, which most members here will know … does exist.

I stand by my original point that when a WM is stupid enough to send money to a lady he has never met and even worse when there is evidence of some red flags, then his actions have contributed to the dirty waters that guys like myself are forced to swim in.

Whist I agree that we are unlikely to stop guys thinking with their little brain then I don’t see why should accept it and not make an effort to explain that this little matter of $1,200 will no doubt of made our scammer increase his/her activities, and their search for higher and more lucrative paydays will be expedited.

Cons have existed since the beginning of mankind.  They're not going to end, no matter what we wish.

Agreed. What shall we do then? Stop trying to educate other guys, give up and go home?

[Jack]

What shall we do then? Stop trying to educate other guys, give up and go home?

This Russian discussion board really offers great advice for those smart enough to take it. 

No disrespect to anyone but I want to point out,  "for those smart enough to take it".

I look at the advice given baldhiker.  Seems it didn't matter.   You have to wonder sometimes why guys come here, ask for, seek advice, from guys who know a thing or two, or in the case of vinny, three things, and then totally go against the wisdom offered.   :noidea:   Sometimes some of you guys have to think your wasting your time by trying to offer help to those who you see most certainly need it.

The advice many of you guys gave in this case, it had to be for other guys, baldhiker figured his woman was the exception.

It's funny how many men think their woman, their situation is the exception.  And most the time, they were not.

[ECOCKS]

Vinny, in fairness I think the context here was the comments that he not continue to seek some retribution or expect that punishment would yield anything positive.

Cons work because people buy into a fantasy. Ripping off grandma for cut-rate roof repairs, taking some guy's $100K in a secret investment scheme or convincing some guy he's going to be married to a porn star all have this fantasy sale in common. People will continue to get "taken" whether through greed, desperation or stupidity.

Of course those people who do this should be punished and the old cliche of "all it takes for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing" applies BUT as non-FSU citizens we cannot effect much control over the laws of Ukraine or Russia. My take was that the advice was simply that the key is education and wisdom are solutions rather than expecting lawyers or some attempt at blacklisting the scammers will have positive results.

[Lily]

Olgah, you know friendfinder is a porn site for men and women to meet.  What are you doing on that site?

 It is not a porn site but has some definite erotic inclination. Nevertheless, there are a number of good men on them, you just have to be specific in your profile about who you want to meet. 

[Boethius]

Vinny, in fairness I think the context here was the comments that he not continue to seek some retribution or expect that punishment would yield anything positive.

Cons work because people buy into a fantasy. Ripping off grandma for cut-rate roof repairs, taking some guy's $100K in a secret investment scheme or convincing some guy he's going to be married to a porn star all have this fantasy sale in common. People will continue to get "taken" whether through greed, desperation or stupidity.

Of course those people who do this should be punished and the old cliche of "all it takes for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing" applies BUT as non-FSU citizens we cannot effect much control over the laws of Ukraine or Russia. My take was that the advice was simply that the key is education and wisdom are solutions rather than expecting lawyers or some attempt at blacklisting the scammers will have positive results.

Yes, and that you can't eradicate this.  It's part of human nature.

FP and Olga, I think you are talking over one another.  I get what Olga is saying.  She would prefer to be more in control.  She would prefer not to deal with men who have preconceived notions, and who are seriously looking for a partner.  If one has read some of Rina's previous experiences (in the Russian language thread) in this quest, you can hardly blame Olga for her perspective.

[Gator]

This Russian discussion board really offers great advice for those smart enough to take it. 

I look at the advice given baldhiker.  Seems it didn't matter....
It's funny how many men think their woman, their situation is the exception.  And most the time, they were not.

Baldhiker had the balls to return and say we were correct.  He even admitted how much money he lost.  It takes a man to do that.  He will be all right, and I doubt he will make the same mistake twice.  This may help him in other matters.

$1200 :usdeyes:  I consider that serious money.  Must have been a very clever team that did Baldhiker.  A little bit there...some more here...and suddenly it is $1200.

[Jack]

well your right about that Gator.  Most guys would not have have come back and admitted what had happened.

I think baldhiker has learned a lot and will end up ok.

[Faux Pas]

I just saw it as a response, with neither of you "hearing" the other.

I don't think it's about control.  Though every person wishes to be in control of his or her own destiny, I think in this case, it's also about not having to experience humiliation.

Boethius

Then you didn't get it. In fact you're not even close

[Boethius]

Well, we'll see when Olga responds.  I think I get what she was saying.

[Boethius]

No, I got your point on the "MOB hype" and what you perceive to be the contradiction.  I just don't think you two are that far apart.

[kievstar]

Lily, if your using adult friend finder and think men are not using it for porn / sex you need to educate yourself a little better. 

[Shadow]

Friendfinder actually had a clear police at the time I was looking. Anyting that was adult material would be pointed as adultfriendfinder, to keep the general sites clean.
While over time policies can fade, their intention is to keep the adult stuff limited to the designated site.

[Faux Pas]

No, I got your point on the "MOB hype" and what you perceive to be the contradiction.  I just don't think you two are that far apart.

Not far apart? Actually, we are parallel. She took one sentence of my post out of context, made an argument with it, then attacked it while attempting to attribute the argument to me. Her posts reflect she has some serious control and self confidence issues.

I took umbrage with her inference that WM who seek RW are abnormal or not normal. I questioned her on it. She is obviously broad stroke stereo typing all WM in this pursuit. Getting her to answer a question is like nailing Jello to a tree.

I don't care how, what, when or where she snags her next victim. Makes no difference to me. But her reference that WM seeking international relationships are all in a "hype" and not "normal" yet different from her in her quest to seek an international relationship is bullkaka.

You are usually pretty perceptive Boethius but, you missed the boat on this one even if you do feel a kinship with OM

[Sculpto]

some serious control and self confidence issues.

A man who persists in insulting a lady, in particular with the above quoted reference, ought to have a look in the mirror himself.  And i see you are expanding your attack to now include B.  Whats the matter Faux?  Did you forget to polish your head this morning?

[Faux Pas]

A man who persists in insulting a lady, in particular with the above quoted reference, ought to have a look in the mirror himself.  And i see you are expanding your attack to now include B.  Whats the matter Faux?  Did you forget to polish your head this morning?

Oh wow LOOK! It's Mighty Dog to the rescue yet again? And his sexual references to hide his own inadequacies. Gee Sculpt, too bad. Sexual frustration? All the way to Piter, met lots of woman and still left to "take matters in hand"?

[OlgaH]

Regarding scamming there is an article "Київські шлюбні агентства обдурюють іноземців" - Kiev marriage agencies swindle foreigners" When an agency gets money that was send to women for tickets or English lessons and the women know nothing about it.

Also Der Spiegel posted in 2006
http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-47514650.html
"Natürlich hat der Software-Profi die Warnungen im Internet gelesen - dass Odessa zur Betrügerhauptstadt im ukrainischen Heiratsgeschäft aufgestiegen sei und dass bei "40 Prozent aller Briefe, Blumen oder Süßigkeiten", die Jack Braggs Agentur im Namen westlicher Verehrer abliefern wolle, verheiratete Frauen oder kräftige Männer im Türrahmen stünden. Sofern die Adresse überhaupt existiere.

Randy hat trotzdem vor Reiseantritt drei Dutzend Briefe an Ukrainerinnen verschickt, die er im Internet besichtigt hatte. Etwa die Hälfte von ihnen ist dann auch zum Rendezvous erschienen. Nicht alle konnten sich gleich an einen Briefwechsel mit Randy erinnern."

[ECOCKS]

Regarding scamming there is an article "Київські шлюбні агентства обдурюють іноземців" - Kiev marriage agencies swindle foreigners" When an agency gets money that was send to women for tickets or English lessons and the women know nothing about it.

Also Der Spiegel posted in 2006
http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-47514650.html
"Natürlich hat der Software-Profi die Warnungen im Internet gelesen - dass Odessa zur Betrügerhauptstadt im ukrainischen Heiratsgeschäft aufgestiegen sei und dass bei "40 Prozent aller Briefe, Blumen oder Süßigkeiten", die Jack Braggs Agentur im Namen westlicher Verehrer abliefern wolle, verheiratete Frauen oder kräftige Männer im Türrahmen stünden. Sofern die Adresse überhaupt existiere.

Randy hat trotzdem vor Reiseantritt drei Dutzend Briefe an Ukrainerinnen verschickt, die er im Internet besichtigt hatte. Etwa die Hälfte von ihnen ist dann auch zum Rendezvous erschienen. Nicht alle konnten sich gleich an einen Briefwechsel mit Randy erinnern."

Translation available from someone?

[OlgaH]

Translation available from someone?

"Of course, the software-professional has read the warnings on the internet, that Odessa has become the capital city of fraud in marriage business, and that 40% of the flowers, letters or sweets which Jack Brigg's agency tried to deliver on behalf of western admirers were gotten by married women or sturdy men standing in the doorway. If the address could be found at all.

Randy, however, sent 3 dozens of letters to ladies in Ukraine before he started his journey, all of them he had seen on the internet. About half of them came for meeting, but not all of them were able to immediately recall a correspondence with Randy..."

[ECOCKS]

TY!

[Jack]

ECOCKS, Der Spiegel, which I understand to be one of the largest magazines of it's type in Europe, sent a reporter to interview me and attend some of our parties several years ago.  

The reporter had asked me how it seemed our clients were able to meet so many real ladies, why no apparent scammers from the meetings the men were having (he interviewed several of the men) as well the ladies he had seen at the parties.

I told this reporter one thing we do is to verify the ladies are real when men buy ladies addresses from various sites like AFA, Anastasia, Angelica Agency, Bride.ru, etc.  One of the many services we offered, as I told this reporter, was to hand deliver the man's letter of introduction with a single red rose, sometimes with candy.

What we found when hand delivering these men's letter of introduction to these ladies from these many agencies were that some ladies were married, some had been living in other countries for years, some ladies were living with local boyfriends and some sweet ladies named Olga were really Yuri.   At that time, and it varied by agencies, but about 60% of the addresses were real.  Angelica had a higher percentage, Anastasia had the lowest percentage of good addresses that men had bought.

Often times we would deliver a flower and letter to the man who answered the door who said Natalia, or Elena, was not home, he was her husband and would be happy to give to her.  Most the time the husbands just laughed.   The boyfriends did not take it so well.   One mother I recall said her daughter had been living in Italy for several years, even had children,  but that married with children lady was still having her address sold over and over again by Anastasia.

[OlgaH]

Actually Der Spiegel article "Caravan of confused hearts" doesn't make a pretty picture.

A so called social at the Night Club Metronome in Odessa.

Western men don't speak Ukraine and Ukrainian ladies barely speak English. The signals from their confused hearts are translated by interpreters. But guests also can make their own conclusions: the distance between heels and skirts is 90 centimeters.

"The greater want the shorter skirts," - an employee of the agency First Dream sums up.

... Jack Brag organizes the tours for men around 12 cities of FSU. For 49 days of "presentation of a marriageable girls" he gets $6,200 from each member, without the cost of the flight, hotels, food and transportation.  

Randy came from the American Pacific coast, where he lives with his parents. He is 40 y.o., overweight , wearing glasses, his incisor teeth slightly stick out, he wears a moss-green suit with matching tie... "Since the college I did not have even one date. Here I have 5 dates per day"...
 
The tour-operator Jack Bragg says that soon Odessa and Kiev will be excluded from the program because "Local girls have become too spoiled". The caravan is moving on: ""Smaller towns such as Sumy, Vinnitsa and Nikolayev are full of beautiful ladies with serious intentions."

This is what the big, heavy man from Texas says. Then he gets up and slowly moves into the night life of Odessa. Jack goes for a date. His Ukrainian wife has just left him in US.


The articles' ending sounds more as a didactic example

[Aloe]

Whatever happened to e-tickets? If you wanna meet a lady so badly that you dont mind paying for her tickets, just buy her an e-ticket, so worst case she wont show up, but he/she wont get their hands on your money either.