Is there any real value in writing women ahead of time?

[rkn777]

I was asked in a PM why I did not write anyone before my recently scheduled trip.   Perhaps it is becasue I am such a lousy typist (I find it tedious and I still hunt and peck) or perhaps it is becasue I was so screwed on my failed WOVO trips in 2004.  

Is there any real value in writing other than perhaps an intro letter or a couple quick screening letters to weed out real and obvious incompatibilities (like I want no more children she wants 10 more children).    I think little can actually be accomplished by writing someone you don't know.   I think it creates fasle impressions and expectaions and that simple meeting people and THEN writing them is a better idea.

I do think the limitation of my WNVM method is that you must make multiple trips, but I am lucky and not encumbered by a 9-5 job or financial limitations that would keep me from making multiple trips.   In fact, If I wanted to I could go every month, and if I met the right girl probaly would (I made a monthly trip to see the girl from Kursk in Septemebr, October and Novemer).  

I would rather just go, meet people through introductions or wherever, and THEN write between trips AFTER already meeting.

I really think everyone is different and becasue I can run my business form anywhere in the world (laptop and cell phone and a long-time business manager of 12 years)that WNVS is the best for me.  Perhaps if a guy only had two weeks a year writing makes the most sense, and I relly dont want to turn this into a WNVS vs. WOVO debate, so here is my real question:

Did writing *really* help you or did everything change in that first meeting?   I just fail to see any benefit or reality in writin ahead of time.    It is emotional rather than factual, and everything will change upon meeting anyway....

Richard

PS   I got a "D" in high school typing and have not made any progress since.

[jb]

Please, Richard,

When men type with just two fingers, we like to say the use the  "Biblical Typing Method", otherwise known as "seek and ye shall  find".  When women type with just two fingers, we say they are a,  "Huntin' Pecker".

[Maxx]

Hello Richard. I am glad to see you here.

I copied this from a post by ConnerVT on this subject and put it in my files.

I tend to agree that writing more than a letter of two doesn't make too much sense.  There are some inherent problems with a long correspondence period.  People tend to hide behind words, and put themselves in the best light.  Next, unless both people are fluent in the language that is written, there will be misunderstandings that will either be taken very badly, or dismissed as a minor problem when they should not.  But these are minor compared to two other larger pitfalls.

First, there is always the problem of falling in love with a 'virtual person', the classic "photograph and letters" the person writes, and not the person themselves.  It is a big punch in the chest to travel half way around the world (or be visited by your foreign friend/love) only to find out quickly this is not the person you thought they were.  It's been described in many ways, but many will say the "chemistry" isn't there.  I had an experience where the woman I wrote to seemed very intelligent and reasonable in her letters, but it was quickly felt (by both myself and my trusted interpretor) that she was borderline crazy.

Second, there will be the desire (perhaps on both parts) to salvage a less than exciting meeting between people to protect the investment of time, money, and energy spent corresponding.  Something like "...Well, they are not the person I thought they would be, perhaps in time I will begin to like them more..."  This is quicksand.  More time is invested, and now it becomes more difficult to cut one's losses and move on.  For all that's involved in an international relationship, I feel it's important that the two people really have strong feelings for each other, else only trouble waits down the road.

So, an introduction letter and 1-2 follow up letters are good for screening if there may be a mutual interest, but it really takes feet on the ground to truly accomplish the goal.
 
I only propose what was successful for me.  I chose to be introduced to women who were a reasonable match.  I avoided the party girls, the hot model type, etc., and met with women that I could envision spending my life with.  I am not rich.  I am not retired.  I do not have tons of free time.  But this is not an endeavor for those who want to do things on the fast and cheap.  The risks are just too great.  If done correctly, even though it is an investment of time and money, the rewards are outstanding.

[TigerPaws]

[color="blue"][size="4"] A lot has been written about this at http://russianwomendiscussion.com/forum3/1110.html take sometime to read through the thread.[/size][/color]

[Oosik]

I had been writing alot over several years, but by the time you weed them out and they weed you out, it's alot of time!! Then the letters suddenly stop.

I decided to minimize the writing, just do a matchmaker service, write a big ol letter, and let the agency contact girls until they had dates for me. I would say do this 2 months in advance. one or two letters to each lady would be the most (so you don't invest too much, if these women get a local guy, you can be out of the pix in a heartbeat). Use this tool to meet women and get chemistry in person, then go from there. You can meet women without email and those who live in small towns too, they get much less contact than city girls. Of the 4 i met in Chernigov, only one had met a foreigner before.

But yes, the WOVO trip reports seem more romantic.

[rkn777]

My WOVO was pretty romantic -- until the taxi scam, hateful bich attitude, the intruding mother in-law, the nights alone while she banged her hubby at home and then demand for a yacht.   It all culminated with me throwing $100 to her and telling her to find her own ride home (we were in Yalta).   Then I went to Germany and banged a girl from Greece, before catching a morning flight.  Otherwise, it was pretty romantic....   LOL     No more WOVO for me.

Richard

[philb]

I made about 8 trips to the FSU that were all pretty much VO before I met someone whom I will actually end up marrying.  I was a bit luckier than you in that none of them were like what you experienced.

At first, I wrote several women at a time over a period of months before narrowing it down to one and going to see her.  Gradually, I came to the realization that writing for any length of time was pretty much a waste of time.  Write a few letters over a 2-4 weeks (might not even need that much time) and get your butt over there. 

It always amazes me that some guys will write for months and then propose to a girl after spending a few days with her. 

I wrote to Alla for about 3 weeks before we met.  One and a half years, 5 trips by me to Kiev, one trip by her to the USA and we will be getting married in February.

[docetae]

Hum. Writing one or two letter per day since 2 months and half to just one girl ...same number from her to me. Will meet her in one month and half ...

The agency I use , altough not recommended offers webcam. And as I grab all images, I know she is writing herself all letters. We will meet directly at the airport ...

I guess the trip report will be interesting whatever happened ...

[philb]

Keep in mind I only offer the above as my "expert" opinion.   Keep doing what your doing go,meet her, and have a nice time.  If it works out great.

Just remember be in a hurry to meet her but don't be in a hurry to marry her.

[Oosik]

...

It always amazes me thatsome guys will write for months and then propose to a girlafter spending a few dayswith her.

I wrote to Allafor about 3 weeks before we met. One and a half years, 5 trips by me to Kiev, one trip by her to the USAand we will be getting married in February.

Well, if you write for months, you learn the important things, then you meet, and you establish chemistry. Why not? Taking one and a half years is silly in my view. All that time alone that could have been spent loving her in person and showing your commitment. Unless your chemistry was not there at the start, and had to be coaxed for quite a long time. There is no evidence that a long courtship makes for a long marriage.

In the post-WWII era, your case would be considered a freak and mine would be considered romantic, albeit a little bit reckless. Back then, there was a shortage of men, so the women were motivated in the US. It made for what we all consider the golden age of the US, the 50's. It also made for some very long lasting marriages. I think FSU women are ready willing and able to decide on marriage to a particular guy very quickly, just like US women were right after WWII.

[philb]

Well, if you write for months, you learn the important things, then you meet, and you establish chemistry. Why not?

 

Yeah, most people I know learn the important things about others through exchanging letters.

Getting to know someone over a period of a year and planning a wedding over 6 months is silly?

I guess exchanging letters for a few months and proposing after a couple of weeks together must be logical then.

[docetae]

I agree with you and I know if everything is fine with the lady,  I will not wait months to decide to ask her about the next step .

Waiting more will bring nothing in this case.

[philb]

I am going to put out an APB for LP

[sammy]

sharks, russian mafia, the marriage agency mafia, sure, pay up boys,,, be fools and write to keyboard sashas months before you travel. that's real smart, especially when there's only 8,000-12,000 international American marriages a year, and european connections cash flowed 20 million dollars in 2004 off them letters... uh huh... you all do the math yet?  F.B.I. and u.s. embassy warns repeatedly of the ScAMMING involved... and ole good cop bad cop routine in the biz....  they got the wolves watching over the sheep, and they'd prefer it that way....

[TigerPaws]

[color="blue"][size="4"]sammy,[/size][/color] [color="blue"] [/color]  [color="blue"][size="4"]

 While for the most part you are  right there are ways around the direct through the agency approach but it is up  to the man to pursue them. There is no reason a man has to use an agency as an  intermediately, men do this because they are lazy or to inept to think of  anything else and the people running the agencies are more than happy to  seperate them from their money.

 There is noting inheartly wrong in a letter  writing approach, if you read the thread about this at http://russianwomendiscussion.com/forum3/1110.html you will  find a pretty good and at times heated discussion about this very subject.  Rather than reinvent the wheel surf on over and read through the thread then see  what you think.[/size][/color]

[Oosik]

Yes, I think a year and a half is silly. I know I am in the minority in this. But after a failed marriage that involved a 6 year dating/living together thing, I realize now that in the first weekss of meeting I saw everything that I needed to see to warn me off, but I didn't because I was a dope.

I think of how valuable time is to these women, and one year before a proposal is a long time for them. What if you never proposed? She would have had a year of youth and beauty wasted on you, when she could have been trying to find her future husband.

Just my opinion, and I'm not married to it.

[Son of Clyde]

I guess if you choose not to write there is an air of mystery about you.

I wanted her to get to know me a little before we met.

We spoke on the phone a number of times and then I went to see her. It went very well. Still I think I should have spent more time if I could have afforded it. The money and the annual leave was not there for multiple visits so I made two visits. I was lucky to find someone honest. 

It is a matter of choice and hoping you find an honest woman. There are some out there.

[Daknack]

30 or more years of life (30 in my case maybe more in many other cases), experiances, thoughts, opinions cant be boiled down into small amounts of time.  You can get a small idea of who someone is, what they are about but not much.  Alot of these trips people take are a week or two, two or three times (at most for many)  Personally I think that someone would be very foolish not to write someone at least for a few months and discuss the important things.  Tell each other stories about your life and things you have done.  If you were dating an American woman for a month and a half (the time someone spends on visits usually) and got married you should be slapped around for being a ninny.  At least with letters you have something like dinner date conversation without the dinner and the vocal aspect.  Now Im not in favor of multiple years and non-sense like that, I did it and much like a previous poster I should have read some of the signs.  When you go, you should feel like you seeing a long lost friend (At least IMO).  A letter or two then going over to "see what happens" seems to me to be little different then walking around the US asking random women out.  Sure its fun, but it can hurt your wallet in the long run.  Marriage isnt something you want to rush into without knowing someone.  Of course you cant know someone 100% through letters but you can know alot.  Someone mentioned that women risk losing a year of youth and beauty, we risk just as much (quite probably more).  None of us get any younger in the process, and we risk some pretty massive financial damage should things fail.  If writing letters helps you to get to know someone I think you would be wise to type it out and stop being lazy.  If you cant type get one of those voice recognition programs or something.  For the record I typed this out on a laptop and they suck for typing.

When all is said and done the only thing lost from writing letters (minus a possible translation fee) is time.  If a woman wants to bolt because you want to extend your letter writing, shes probably likely to bolt if you get laid off from the plant, or some equally sucky problem comes along.  Its like the experiment with children and the marshmellow.  Give a kid a marshmellow, and tell them if they wait an hour or two to eat it they can have two.  If they want they can eat it then but they only get the one.  The kids that scarfed the Mallow, tended to be poor students as things went on as well as having worse jobs, money, and security.  Those that waited tended to do far better in life because they were willing to wait.

You also need to keep in mind that likely shes not writing to just you.  Same as your likely not writing to just her.  So this worry that whoever your writing to is going to die some old maid if you dont go see her is probably a false premise.

Theres really only two reasons not to write.  Lazyness which is not a good reason, or your not overly good looking and have a feeling shes going to take a look at you and say "your not my type".  In which case just go and think of it as a vacation, if it works great if not dont sweat it.

[jb]

My 2 cents.

There is a further reason to write for an extended period.   Whether or not you know it, letter writing is not a part of the Russian  social habit.  Due to the extended period of recent history when  travel was hugely restrictive in the FSU, families did not scatter in  the same way American families did.  If all your friends and  family are pretty much all in one place there isn't much need for  letter writing.  We learned how to write letters to friends and  family, they did not.  There was no need.  Later as  technology developed, Russians learned to simply pick up the phone for  social contact, so did we, but they were mostly calling across town  while we had to call long distances to chat with our buddies.  We  still wrote letters across the country and the USPS realiably delivered  those letters for a pittance compared to old LD phone rates, while the  Russian Postal Service was not able to inspire much confidence.

If you are engaged in an extended letter writing relationship with a  Russian woman, and she hangs in there throughout several months, it  seems to me that she is demonstrating a great deal of real interest in  you.  If she weren't truly interested, she'd get bored very  quickly and tire of the effort.

So, I recommend letter writing as a good "get-to-know-you" method, it  may reveal bits of her character you wouldn't otherwise get to see  during a short vacation trip together.  You may cuss and discuss  "chemistry" til the cows come home, but I fear you may mistake  momentary lust for chemistry and miss all the real signposts that lead  to happiness, or possibly to ruined marriages.

[Leslie]

I have posted my views on this many times.

Writing for months via any agency translator before meeting is IMHO a complete waste of time.  The only people who benefit are the agency owners.  This is the main "gravy train" of the MOB business.

If you want to develop a relationship by writing choose a woman who speaks and writes English and has access to a computer at work or home.  Or learn Russian!

My strategy was simple.  I never wrote more than half a dozen letters before meeting - often only 2 or 3.  Just an introduction.  But I face to face dated nearly 100 women. 

Finding someone is a numbers game

Writing after you have met is different.  I did this with all the women I had a serious interest in.  I never used an agency or translator for this communication.  You are talking about personal stuff. 

No way is a stranger going to read this:shock:

Writing in Russian is a good idea !

WOVO does work.  Some people are lucky.  Many settle for the first reasonable partner they find.  A lot of people fail and we never hear a word from them because people write about success not failure.

WMVM does work.  Success will take several trips.  It is expensive in time and money.  But that is a different topic....

[TigerPaws]

[size="3"]
[/size]
[size="3"]My strategy was simple.  I never wrote more than half a dozen letters before meeting - often only 2 or 3.  Just an introduction.  But I face to face dated nearly 100 women.  [/size]

[size="3"]Finding someone is a numbers game [size="4"][color="blue"]More men need to understand this[/color][/size][/size]

[size="3"]Writing after you have met is different.  I did this with all the women I had a serious interest in.  I never used an agency or translator for this communication.  You are talking about personal stuff.  [/size]

[size="3"]No way is a stranger going to read this:shock: [/size]

[size="3"]Writing in Russian is a good idea ! [color="blue"][size="4"]This is where using your own professional translator really pays off.[/size][/color][/size]

[size="3"]WOVO does work.  Some people are lucky.  Many settle for the first reasonable partner they find.  A lot of people fail and we never hear a word from them because people write about success not failure.[/size]

[size="3"]WMVM does work.  Success will take several trips.  It is expensive in time and money.  But that is a different topic....[/size]

[Albert]

As to the original question:  Is there any real value in writing women ahead of time.  My answer is Yes.  But the amount of value you (and the woman) gets out of this varies greatly depending on a few factors.

First, you want to make it time efficient for yourself.  This means you should have some very well prepared 'canned' letters that do not at all look canned.  Each of these letters addresses the issues that the women are interested in.  i.e. Your background, education, work history, family, cultural interests, sports interests, music, etc., etc.  Each letter also asks them some questions, and addresses something personal pertaining to each individual lady.  Best strategy to minimize your customizing time is to anticipate all the questions they have so that you cover these items before they ask, and to take the offensive by asking them many questions.  The more you keep them busy answering your questions, the less time they have to ask you new questions before they will eventually read all the info about you anyway in your 'canned' letters.

Second, you do not want to carry on this letter writing process too long.  For me, this means I don't make initial contacts until about 6-8 weeks before my first visit to a particular city.  Then I limit the e-mails exchanged to 6-10 or so and only on a weekly basis after the first two.  This short time frame serves two purposes.  The gals know you will be showing up shortly, so they are more interested in corresponding with you.  And, the short period mitigates against boredom that could set in during a longer time period of message exchanges.

Third, you have to choose if you want to correspond with the gals you want to meet . . . . or do you want to correspond with interpreters and translators, and pay money to boot.  If the former, then you have to limit yourself to English proficient gals.

So what do you get out of this 'prior' correspondence.  Many things, at least for me.

First, it eliminates the potential awkwardness of the first face to face meeting.  In my case, the gal and I start blabbering right away about what is happening with our animals, our children, sports teams, museum exhibits, jobs, etc.   We each already know many details about each other in these respects, so it is just like talking to an old USA friend you haven't seen for awhile.  You avoid the seeming 'interrogation' aspect that you will be put through by the gals in first meetings when they know nothing about you.  Many, many, many gals I meet in FSU tell me that, after a couple of days with me, they feel like they have known me for 5-10 years.  I attribute much of this to the prior exchange of info in e-mails.

Second, you can rule out during the e-mail exchange phase those gals with whom you have absolutely nothing in common with, or who tells you she is not interested in some of your hobbies, preferences, etc.

Third, you can get some sense of what type of person she is.  This is not foolproof, but I have actually only met about 5-6 gals out of over 155 who turned out to be substantially different than I had expected from the exchange of e-mails.

 

 

 

 

 

[TigerPaws]

[size="4"][color="blue"]albert,

 Well said, in addition to what you said writing for 6 to 8 weeks will normally eliminate the scammers.[/color]
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[Vaughn]

All are pretty good arguments pro and con. Albert's thoughts on writing parallel my own, although due to limited time off from American-based work, I was willing to write for a longer period of time. In the beginning I did use the letter writing to express my interest as well as a tool - to eliminate. Generally, I've been an avid writer most of my life, and considered it a very valuable use of time in getting to know my future wife. I never once considered that my time invested MUST have a payoff. Amidst the e-mails, which were translated very well at a bargain 50 cents to a buck each, we sent snail mail back and forth as well. It helps to know some Russian, especially for phone calls. Except for e-mail, we never employed translators.

That's just my experience. Many will assign letter-writing a range of value based on their own experiences and preferences. I would suggest to a serious new guy that he practice a method that proves comfortable, and not base his tactic on a small sample of success/horror stories.

[Photo Guy]

[size="3"][color="darkred"]Before meeting her, many guys communicate through emails and/or phone calls, which may or may not involve translations. Of those, the results are very mixed with some guys saying she turned out to be just like her emails and other guys saying she was nothing like her emails. Why are the results so mixed? I think there are dozens of different reasons and here are some of the significant variables:
[color="blue"]1- accuracy of the translations
2- ability of the individuals to be open and sincere
3- ability of the individuals to judge character and other personality issues
4- how much the individuals fantasize
5- general writing ability
6- how well the individuals know themselves, which determines their ability to project an accurate picture of themselves [/color]
That's all I could come up with right now- I'm sleep deprived... been up since 1:30 AM.[/color]
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