Dumb Question 46 (Money)

[Aussielion]

Im off to the Ukraine next month. How do I sort out the money side of my travel? Do I just use my credit card? Open an accountover there?

[ML]

Theft of credit card and debit card info is institutionalized in FSU.  It happens with people who work in the banks.  Nothing so simple as people watching you punch in pin numbers or having sleeves in the ATMs, etc.

I suggest you set up a paypal account and obtain a debit card from paypal.  Then set up a system to transfer from your bank account to your paypal account.  This sets up a barrier between your big stockpile of money and the scammers who can clean out your debit card balance.  This barrier does not exist if you use your bank issued debit card.

However, even this barrier is not fool proof because if you read the fine print, all prepaid debit card systems (of which the paypay system is close) have the right to go after your assets if somehow someone overdraws from your prepaid balance.

Some banks in past have reimbursed their clients whose debit card info has been stolen by the FSU banking people, but some banks are now saying they will not reimburse if you use your debit card in a high risk country.

Aside from using debit card to get cash, the other alternatives are:

1) Carry enough cash.
2) Have a friend wire you money via Western Union, MoneyGram, etc.
3) Set up a system to transfer money from your bank account to the bank account of a trusted friend in the FSU.

[Doll]

I regularly go to Russia, used to have both cash and debit cards, but this summer- just debit card (meaning I withdrew money from ATM). Fraud is possible but I was watching all the transactions online. Nothing bad happened. I even left (forgot to take) my credit card on the counter in the store! Was not sure how to claim it from there, so I just watched it online. Nobody used it.
So I am recommending debit cards and online banking. Also, take some cash but not much.

[daveyj]

In march I was in Kiev.  Over the course of my visit I used two different credit cards for cash advance from the same ATM (located at a bank, but outside on the street).  6 weeks later there were a series of cash advances on one of the cards from Germany, and fortunately my CC company's system noticed the irregular withdrawals and quickly blocked the card and called me.  The next week the exact same thing happened on the second card, this time from Sharm El Sheikh (a popular vacation destination in Egypt for Ukrainians and Russians).  Again, my CC company's system noticed something was off and they put a hold on the card.  I was lucky, in both cases my CC company's quickly cleared the false transactions and I never had to pay anything on them.

My advice is to use only one ATM, preferably inside a bank rather than outside on the street.  And if possible use only one card, and with a relatively low limit.  (So that if they put through false transactions, the downside is limited).  And then pay cash wherever possible.

To be fair however, I have used credit cards many other times (purchase and cash advance) with no problem.  Make sure you tell you CC company when and where you expect to be traveling. 

Finally, if you have any doubts or worries then after you get home just call your CC company and tell them you lost your card and they'll send you a new one with a new #.

[ML]

My advice is to use only one ATM, preferably inside a bank rather than outside on the street. 

Davey, the scammers are employees of the bank and the banking system.

[Gylden]

If one is worried about using ATM cards, I would suggest to go online and inform ones self on the different things to look for when using an ATM machine. There is plenty of good stuff about it. Also to have good communication with your bank. Keep all of the receipts from the ATM machine and make a log of time and place where you make withdrawls. If anything out of the ordinary happens report it to your bank at once.

 

[acctBill]

My wife maintains an account at a bank in Moscow.  We keep a little money in there when we're not in Russia and then transfer more in when we are planning on visiting Moscow.  Anyone else have accounts in banks in Russia or other FSU countries?   

[daveyj]

Davey, the scammers are employees of the bank and the banking system.

Sometimes, but not exclusively. 

The ATM PIN lift happens one of four ways.  One, from a bank employee.  Two, from a secretly placed video camera at the ATM and then getting your card number from a receipt you discard.  Three, an overlay on top of the ATM card slot and keyboard (it extracts the info from your card and pin for future use, and simultaneously feeds the data into the real ATM cardslot and keyboard so you don't realize what has happened).  Four, an employee of the ATM service company for the remotely placed kiosks.

Limiting one's use of ATM's to an ATM inside the bank helps to avoid the risks from #s 2-4, but admittedly not from #1.

[SMS60]

I'm off to the Ukraine next month. How do I sort out the money side of my travel? Do I just use my credit card? Open an accountover there?

A fresh stack Benjamins is all you need with some type of bank card as back up. Pretty simple.

[Faux Pas]

Im off to the Ukraine next month. How do I sort out the money side of my travel? Do I just use my credit card? Open an accountover there?

I have found nothing works better than cash but, that is in Russia. Can't speak for Ukraine. I also carry a debit and one credit card just in case and leave the rest at home. I've used both debit and credit card with no mishaps. I usually anticipate how much cash I'll use on any given trip and order it from my bank in brand new $100 bills (very import for highest exchange rate) after arriving and just a side distraction watch every exchange place and bank for their current rates. I usually exchange $4-500 at a time. I prefer to use cash but do not hesitate to use a cc

[Doll]

I have found nothing works better than cash

I find cash very inconvenient because you can only change it when the banks are open, ATM work 24/7

[Faux Pas]

I find cash very inconvenient because you can only change it when the banks are open, ATM work 24/7

Thats an exchange problem, not a cash problem. 

What's a problem is when you wish to spend and only have a card and the vendor/merchant doesn't take your card. The ATM's are very "unreliable" for a Western card. Some work, some don't. I've found very few in Russia who won't take cash for payment.

Through trial and error I now exchange about $200 at the airport when I land no matter the exchange rate and it is always lower there. I find it easy enough to anticipate how much cash I'll need and plan accordingly. I make a little game out of finding the best rate.

[XMan]

I pay for whatever I can in advance (apartment, for example, assuming you know and trust who you are dealing with). 

The rest --- cash. 
Your mileage may vary, but there isn't an ATM or bank in all of Ukraine I have any faith in.  I worked in bank technology too long.
A card for backup, with appropriate precautions in place to protect you from large losses (as mentioned within this thread earlier) is a good idea, as is having someone who can wire you cash if needed through Moneygram or W.U.  Don't carry all your cash in your wallet, and keep your wallet in a front pants pocket.  I carry emergency cash in what looks like a traditional belt, but with a zipper.  Quite handy. 
By all means, make a copy of your passport.  Handy to have in speeding up the replacement process should you lose yours.  And you should, by the way, have your passport with you.  It can be requested by police at pretty much any time anywhere.

Oh, and try not to be as paranoid as I sound. 
 
I like to take precautions.  If I have backup, I don't have to ponder possible disaster...much. 

[Seeker]

I pay for whatever I can in advance (apartment, for example, assuming you know and trust who you are dealing with). 

The rest --- cash. 
Your mileage may vary, but there isn't an ATM or bank in all of Ukraine I have any faith in.  I worked in bank technology too long.
A card for backup, with appropriate precautions in place to protect you from large losses (as mentioned within this thread earlier) is a good idea, as is having someone who can wire you cash if needed through Moneygram or W.U.  Don't carry all your cash in your wallet, and keep your wallet in a front pants pocket.  I carry emergency cash in what looks like a traditional belt, but with a zipper.  Quite handy. 
By all means, make a copy of your passport.  Handy to have in speeding up the replacement process should you lose yours.  And you should, by the way, have your passport with you.  It can be requested by police at pretty much any time anywhere.

Oh, and try not to be as paranoid as I sound. 
 
I like to take precautions.  If I have backup, I don't have to ponder possible disaster...much. 

I don't think you are being paranoid at all.  Of course on my last trip I was pick-pocketed and lost cash/cards/passport/etc... Keeping it all separate is wise (which I didn't do), as was the copies of passport (which I had) and list of phone numbers I might need, and did.

I have found the ATM's to be the best way to get cash, before your ATM card gets stolen.  Of course this was St Petersburg.... very tourist friendly.

[Boethius]

My husband's debit card was compromised here.  He found out when he tried to pay for groceries, and the card was rejected.  Fortunately, I had set a $500 daily withdrawal limit, and we were within 24 hours of the first withdrawal.  So, it's not a situation restricted to foreign travel.   

What I learned from the experience is that one should change the ATM password monthly.  I'd suggest anyone travelling abroad change his/her bank and credit card passwords upon returning home.

[XMan]

I don't think you are being paranoid at all.  Of course on my last trip I was pick-pocketed and lost cash/cards/passport/etc... Keeping it all separate is wise (which I didn't do), as was the copies of passport (which I had) and list of phone numbers I might need, and did.

I have found the ATM's to be the best way to get cash, before your ATM card gets stolen.  Of course this was St Petersburg.... very tourist friendly.

Something like that can take the wind out of your sails pretty quickly. 
Hope that the rest of the trip was on the whole far better than that unfortunate experience. 

My husband's debit card was compromised here.  He found out when he tried to pay for groceries, and the card was rejected.  Fortunately, I had set a $500 daily withdrawal limit, and we were within 24 hours of the first withdrawal.  So, it's not a situation restricted to foreign travel.   

What I learned from the experience is that one should change the ATM password monthly.  I'd suggest anyone travelling abroad change his/her bank and credit card passwords upon returning home.

Excellent point.
I've had credit cards compromised 4 times in 10 years, all in the USA. 
I use a monitoring service for unusual activity (regarding credit in general) as well.

[Doll]

I've found very few in Russia who won't take cash for payment.

All the payments are made in rubles.

[Doll]

Before I went to Russia I made my accounts low, informed the banks I was going to stay there from-- till certain dates. I had more than one debit card (just in case), also, watched all the transactions online. Everything went perfect.

[Faux Pas]

All the payments are made in rubles.

You don't consider paying in rubles as paying in cash?  

Doll, there seems to be a bit of hysteria concerning money, transactions, yadda, yadda, yadda in the FSU. I try not to perpetuate that. People get pick-pocketed all the time everywhere. Bottom line is protect your wallet and money just as you'd do in any crowd or any strange place. If you are careless in the FSU someone is liable to take advantage of that. Just like they might do in Rooster Poot, Mississippi. Xman's advice was good. Use a money belt, don't keep all your cash in the same place, copies of the Passport and one debit and/or CC. Use those as little as possible. From my experience it's not much different from any other place in the world other than, one's electronic banking may not work.

[ECOCKS]

In three years of continuous residence in Ukraine I used ATM cards a minimum of 3 times a month and never had an issue. This included ones in front of banks and, more rarely, the most dangerous type, the wheeled ones located in gastronoms and grocery stores.

I had two accounts and two cards for each account. I was pickpocketed once and list one of the cards but it was never used and replaced within a month or so.

When traveling out in the country and in the EU (probably 8-10 times), I did have a family member pop two to three hundred dollars in WU for emergencies and kept the transaction number written in several places. Again never had to use it but it granted some peace of mind.

I also kept my ATM PIN codes (and WU transaction numbers) on my phone and maintained lots of credit on my phone account just in case. After the pickpocketing this saved me since I could immediately call family (and the embassy) to get money into WU the first time, which is when I realized that made a lot of sense when traveling around in a foreign country with criminal issues.

WU has never struck me as a long-term solution for money transfers as ATM cards were convenient and always safe for me. Carrying lots of cash also stuck me as foolish since it could be spotted and mark me as a target.

[acctBill]

A fresh stack Benjamins is all you need with some type of bank card as back up. Pretty simple.

I hope your kidding about the $100 dollar bills.  There are some banks in Europe and lots of companies that won't take American $100 bills because of counterfeiting concerns.   In Ukraine the problems of exchanging new American $100 bills for Ukrainian currency is going to be more difficult.  If you are in a Ukrainian city that doesn't regularly see a lot of American currency then the problems are going to be far worse.     

[Olga_Mouse]

I hope you're kidding about the $100 dollar bills.

No kidding here before that post of yours, actually   ...oh, and I hope that acct in your screen name isn't standing for "accountant"? 

There are some banks in Europe and lots of companies that won't take American $100 bills because of counterfeiting concerns.

There are some banks in Europe and lots of companies that won't take 200EUR or 500EUR banknotes; but all banks and most exchange offices in Ukraine and Russia have special machines that detect if the banknote is real or fake. If there is no such machine, then the cashier would be well-trained and know how to tell a fake.

In Ukraine the problems of exchanging new American $100 bills for Ukrainian currency is going to be more difficult.  
If you are in a Ukrainian city that doesn't regularly see a lot of American currency then the problems are going to be far worse.      

Considering savings under mattress are usually kept in USD, these are exactly $100 bills that are the most common here. Some small exchange offices might refuse to accept $1 or $5 bills, because they won't be able to get rid of them; but I have yet to see a bank or exchange office that would refuse a new crispy $100 banknote  

[Faux Pas]

I hope your kidding about the $100 dollar bills.  There are some banks in Europe and lots of companies that won't take American $100 bills because of counterfeiting concerns.   In Ukraine the problems of exchanging new American $100 bills for Ukrainian currency is going to be more difficult.  If you are in a Ukrainian city that doesn't regularly see a lot of American currency then the problems are going to be far worse.     

Thats the first I've heard of that. In fact, most banks will reject perfectly good $100 bills for the slightest blemish, ink marks, torn or worn. Most exchange places will take such bulls at a considerably less exchange rate. Every exchange and bank I've ever been to in the FSU inspected all bills to the umpth degree. I have no doubt they all are experts at counterfeit detection or they wouldn't be there.

I would highly recommend brand new uncirculated bills over any circulated money. I've never really understood however why slightly worn bills are so frowned upon but without a doubt, it is.

[ML]

Carrying lots of cash also stuck me as foolish since it could be spotted and mark me as a target.

Can you explain this; how can it be spotted?  You surely don't mean that you would display in public a large stack or roll of USD.

[ML]

There is absolutely no problem in getting $100 USD bills exchanged almost anywhere in the world, where an exchange facility exists.  USD is still the currency of the world, even as the Euro has made considerable inroads.

I have only had one bill refused in over 50 trips to other countries.  It was rejected by a machine reader in Turkey, but was later accepted by another reader in Austria.

As stated by others, just be sure to take new UNMARKED bills.  Before my trips, this is a lengthy procedure to go to several banks until I achieve this goal.  No writting in ink or ink stamps, and no yellow 'test' marks.

As others have stated, stash the cash in various places, with very little in an exposed pocket.  Money belt in your trouser loops, a larger waist/chest band higher up inside your shirt (buy these at WalMart and many other places) to hold the largest stash of cash along with your passport and credit cards, and legbands.

Then back it up with WU and MoneyGram sources, a PayPal debit card with a small balance but with transfer privileges from your bank account, and previously set up transfer possibilities (this takes a lot of work and time to set up the first time) between your bank account and a friend's bank account.