Dumb Question 46 (Money)

[Doll]

You don't consider paying in rubles as paying in cash?

I do. My point was that to get rubles when you have dollars you need to go to the bank and change. Banks work from 9 to 3 mostly, so, if you're out of money after 3 or 4 then what? ATM work 24/7
Also, cash can be stolen easily.

[JohnDearGreen]

WU has never struck me as a long-term solution for money transfers as ATM cards were convenient and always safe for me. Carrying lots of cash also stuck me as foolish since it could be spotted and mark me as a target.

I stayed in a soviet era run-down apartment building near the end of the red line in south Moscow.  Each morning I would go south one subway stop where there was a big mall, a small warehouse mall, and some ATMs and get $100 in rubles each day.   One day it was out of big bills, and spit out a 2 inch tall stack of small bills.  It drew a few stares.

[Faux Pas]

I do. My point was that to get rubles when you have dollars you need to go to the bank and change. Banks work from 9 to 3 mostly, so, if you're out of money after 3 or 4 then what? ATM work 24/7
Also, cash can be stolen easily.

Doll it does require some degree of thought and planning on the part of the traveler. It's really not that difficult to anticipate how much cash one will need from one point to another. Banks usually had the best rates thus, plan on exchanging between 9 and 3. Should something happen to where that isn't possible, then go to an exchange. It's really not brain science.

I recommend carrying cash mostly because I have never had anyone in Russia refuse cash. Adversely, many times my debit or credit card has been declined at ATMs and other places then, guess what? You wind up paying cash anyway. Depending on a credit/debit card will disappoint a new traveler in Russia. It's almost a guarantee. I have learned after numerous trips some tips to help insure it doesn't happen but, normally it will happen at least once. (Murphy's Law). I would advise to plan on using cash, using credit/debit cards as a back up

[kievstar]

Couple of things to do.  First $100 bills make sure the face is perfect meaning no wear, than make sure no pen or pencil markings, than make sure the bill is not wrinkled.  You can always order brand new bills from the bank - just give them a month notice.  Usually at a bank for every 100 $100 bills they have 10-20% will be useable in Ukraine (reason to order to good bills).  I am only speaking about Ukraine know nothing about Russia.

Regarding ATM I have never had an issue in Ukraine and used my card to take money all over the cities numerous times and 1-2 per day on average (easily have taken more than $500,000 usd out of atm's as i used to do business and live in Ukraine).  If your not bringing cash make sure your credit limit per day is up - there are a couple nice atm's in Kiev where you can take up to $10,000 usd on one transaction.  In many of the machines each transaction is limited to less than $300 usd and some $60 usd.  You gather a lot of attention when you have to do 100 transactions in a row to get the money you need (plus you have a meter high of small bills).  A lot easier with a good high limit machine with high notes.  You will find the high limit machines where the fancy cars are and the mafia type figures are taking there eye candy.  

I have used my credit card 3 times (credit not debit) in Kiev at restaurants and it was stolen 2 times.  So I pay cash now.  

Another tip is to have 3 bank accounts.  One you use in USA only.  One you use in Ukraine only.  One for savings.  So you have 2 debit cards and can move money around your accounts on your phone or computer for free through Wells Fargo.  The Ukraine card I have a very high limit per day for withdrawal but the USA card is very small withdrawal as use credit card.  The Ukraine card is for only travel and never carry in USA.

So many people get robbed in USA at gun point near ATM's wise to have small withdrawal limit otherwise there going to take you to your house next.  With less than $300 usd daily limit there not going to waste to much time with you.  Savings account is just a good idea to get 2-3% on access cash (current rates).

All my Wells fargo accounts are free meaning I can use my debit card 300 times a day in Ukraine and no fees from any bank.  

To summarize carry cash and use your debit card only with atm and have a special card for Ukraine.  

The person above regarding fraudulent charges 6 weeks later we need more details as they will hit your card right away not wait 6 weeks.  I had a debit card (USA card) used fraudulently in Germany recently as well and that is the card that never sees Ukraine.   Idiot bought a ticket and police got him on arrival as I get notices to my phone.  The man was not from FSU either.  

 Regarding carrying a lot of cash in Ukraine.  If you look like a tough guy no issues.  If your not be careful.  Dress sharp and walk confident and you can carry a ton and no one well mess you.  That is the beauty about Ukraine as street thugs stay away from upper class.  Dress like a tourist and look weak they will hit you every time.  Keep hair very short as well.  No money belts or man purses that will make you look like a target.  

I feel comfortable carrying $10,000 usd plus in Ukraine but in USA only feel comfortable with less than $300 usd.  Crime is just to high all over USA compared to Ukraine.  

[Doll]

Faux Pas, actually, I do the combination of cash-debit card-credit card. Also, online banking which is in this case- just watching on the computer. I was able to watch, transfer  funds from one account to another, etc. I did have some cash with me but didn't use it, brought back.
Yes, we all need to plan ahead, but ATM card is much less work 

[Faux Pas]

Faux Pas, actually, I do the combination of cash-debit card-credit card. Also, online banking which is in this case- just watching on the computer. I was able to watch, transfer  funds from one account to another, etc. I did have some cash with me but didn't use it, brought back.
Yes, we all need to plan ahead, but ATM card is much less work 

I completely agree if it actually works. It's when it doesn't that causes the problems.  Back on topic Aussielion is a first time traveler? I couldn't recommend depending on credit/debit cards in Russia for a first time traveler for the reasons I stated.

That said, later and subsequent trips I tend to carry less cash just because I was carrying too much but I still don't depend on the ATMs or credit card. It's asking for trouble

[Doll]

Like somebody said above, I only used the ATM that were inside the banks (not really INSIDE because the access was 24/7, so they just belonged to those banks).
I checked my accounts daily and had no problems at all. I did keep the balance low, but was able to transfer the funds from saving to checking.
We did have   one "accident"- my son lost the card, but I immediately removed the money from that one (nobody else tried to use the card BTW). Just 3 clicks of the mouse 

[Doll]

That said, later and subsequent trips I tend to carry less cash just because I was carrying too much

"too much" of what?

[Faux Pas]

Like somebody said above, I only used the ATM that were inside the banks (not really INSIDE because the access was 24/7, so they just belonged to those banks).
I checked my accounts daily and had no problems at all. I did keep the balance low, but was able to transfer the funds from saving to checking.
We did have   one "accident"- my son lost the card, but I immediately removed the money from that one (nobody else tried to use the card BTW). Just 3 clicks of the mouse 

For me personally, thats just paranoia. I know people like you that check their accounts several times daily. I can go weeks without checking it but I do have alerts for unusual amounts, merchants or suspicious activity. I have safeguards in place protecting my assets. I'm just not going to worry especially while on vacation in Russia, if my money is safe. Take the usual safeguards and continue on living I say

[Doll]

I'm just not going to worry especially while on vacation in Russia, if my money is safe

I am.You're funny, Faux Pas, you've posted so much about how unsafe it is to deal with money in Russia and  now you are not going to worry!
Cash is the least secure thing there.

[Faux Pas]

I am.You're funny, Faux Pas, you've posted so much about how unsafe it is to deal with money in Russia and  now you are not going to worry!
Cash is the least secure thing there.

You must have me confused with someone else.   However, it is "unsafe" to deal with currency of any kind anywhere. The FSU is no different. The most advice I would post on the subject has more to do with convenience than security. If one does not take care of security of their assets on a regular basis why would they do any different going to the FSU? I personally would not like the idea that I landed for the first time in Russia with only pocket change and a debit card. It would likely make for a cash strapped trip.

For instance, I found out after my first trip that unless someone from my local bank has used an accepted network with their debit card in the FSU, chances are my debit card would be rejected. My debit card was rejected on my first visit everywhere, ATMs and even banks. Upon returning my banker explained that my local branch hadn't been included into that particular arm of the network. She fixed it and it worked about half the time on my next visit. It has worked sporadically ever since. It's not completely reliable is the only point I have tried to make with you here. Cash is pretty reliable  

[daveyj]

The person above regarding fraudulent charges 6 weeks later we need more details as they will hit your card right away not wait 6 weeks.  

The reason why I trace it back to that Kiev ATM is that I used only two cards there, and they were the same two cards that had cash advances 6 weeks later, and one week apart.  Seems like too much of a coincidence.  Also, one of the cash advances came from Sharm El Sheikh, a popular vacation spot in Egypt for Ukrainians.

My guess is they waited the six weeks to cover their tracks and blur the link to the original transaction when they lifted the # and PIN.  This would suggest that there is someone working for the bank who is lifting the data, and trying to be discreet.

But this is just my armchair sleuthing, and I don't know for a fact that the numbers were lifted in Kiev.

[ECOCKS]

Can you explain this; how can it be spotted?  You surely don't mean that you would display in public a large stack or roll of USD.

Of course not, yet accidents happen. As someone mention upthread, you have to take money from ATM's or WU as well as count for transactions and such. Carry large amounts if you wish. I find it foolish for the reasons I stated. I kept a thousand or so in my apartment but rarely carried more than $50 or so unless I was going straight to the exchange kiosks or a bank. As I said, the ATM card worked spectacularly and the cash stash was always for backup.

As for the discussion on large bills, I've had $50's and $100's refused at change kiosks but never banks in the past and worn bills refused at both types of locations. I remember buying a torn $20 off some guy in front of me once for the full exchange rate and my wife was upset that I did so until I explained the worst that would happen is it would be in the stash until returning home.

[Olga_Mouse]

I can go weeks without checking it but I do have alerts for unusual amounts, merchants or suspicious activity.

Don't you guys just have a service called "mobile banking" here?

Costs 60 roubles per month for Visa Classic; already included in annual charge for Visa Gold.

Each time there is a transation with your card - purchase, transfer, annual charge, WHATEVER! - you're INSTANTLY receiving an SMS with the information about transaction type, amount and the company that handled that transaction?  ???

[Faux Pas]

Don't you guys just have a service called "mobile banking" here?

Costs 60 roubles per month for Visa Classic; already included in annual charge for Visa Gold.

Each time there is a transation with your card - purchase, transfer, annual charge, WHATEVER! - you're INSTANTLY receiving an SMS with the information about transaction type, amount and the company that handled that transaction?  ???

No I don't. Never even heard of "mobile banking" unless it's accessing your accounts with a cell phone which, I opt out. I have alerts as I said for unusual transaction, cash withdrawal, suspicious activity and purchase over certain amounts. It is a service of my bank. I pay nothing extra for it. I have a number of cards and pay nothing for any of those services.

I'd prefer not to be notified of every transaction but, I guess thats just me.

[Boethius]

It's available in Canada, so it likely is available in the US.  I don't use it, but I don't text much, either.

Visa is also developing a platform to allow you to make Visa purchases using your cellphone.

[Gylden]

The US is a little behind when it comes to banking services, at least to the consumer.
Every one has a little different approach, the main point is to just use a little common sense whenever you use cash and credit cards/ATM cards.

 

[Seeker]

The US is a little behind when it comes to banking services, at least to the consumer.
Every one has a little different approach, the main point is to just use a little common sense whenever you use cash and credit cards/ATM cards.

 

Glyden, you and Faux Pas make the best points.  Be smart, and be aware.  I got complacent for less that a minute.  If this had happened in the US there would have been a gun or knife involved.  Not only do I not have any bad feelings about what happened (the local police and US Embassy were VERY quick to respond and helpful) it reminded me not to be stupid.  I wouldn't have been as lax where I live.  But I allowed myself to be in a foreign country.  My bad, my lesson.  A very inexpensive one considering the alternatives.

[Doll]

You must have me confused with someone else.  

Yes, I did, sorry 

[SANDRO43]

Don't you guys just have a service called "mobile banking" here?

My bank provides that service for free, I could have any transaction from my account/CC SMSsed promptly to my cell phone if I wanted.

[Doll]

Don't you guys just have a service called "mobile banking" here?

Costs 60 roubles per month for Visa Classic; already included in annual charge for Visa Gold.

Each time there is a transation with your card - purchase, transfer, annual charge, WHATEVER! - you're INSTANTLY receiving an SMS with the information about transaction type, amount and the company that handled that transaction?  ???

I don't have it. When I go to Russia I can't use my cell phone, I just shut it down.
I am ok with online banking.

[Olga_Mouse]

Never even heard of "mobile banking" unless it's accessing your accounts with a cell phone which, I opt out.

And that too - for example, you can transfer funds from one card to another, pay for the mobile phone, utilities, etc. simply by sending an SMS with certain combination of digits and letters. I've used it a couple of times only, though... 

[Faux Pas]

And that too - for example, you can transfer funds from one card to another, pay for the mobile phone, utilities, etc. simply by sending an SMS with certain combination of digits and letters. I've used it a couple of times only, though... 

I've had something similar offered by one of my banks but, I opted out. I don't really trust the technology yet. Yet being the keyword. Like Doll, I mostly use the internet and I am not comfortable with it to be honest but it is convenient.

Something to keep in mind while banking, if you can access your account on the internet or on the phone, other people can too.   

[SANDRO43]

To beef up security on Internet accesses, a few years ago my bank issued to all customer a small gadget called O-Key (made in China ) that generates a 6-digit number for a few seconds in its little LCD window after pressing a button, a number that must be used at logon along with UserID and PW. Any online transaction, say a bank transfer, requires providing a new number obtained in the same way.

Such numbers are apparently random - I don't recall seen repetitions - so what is personalised is possibly the seed number used by the randomiser in the gadget .

[XMan]

I think it was Steve Martin who said "if you're being mugged, just throw up on your money." 
I never have been able to spontaneously projectile vomit. Probably a good thing. 

There is no completely safe technology. 
I don't care what you've heard, read, seen, etc. 
There is always a way to hack it.  Always. 
Precautions are good.  Having a monitoring service, talking to your credit card company in advance, etc. 
Unnecessary risk is pointless.

I would seriously think twice about using wireless or cellular technology to access accounts. 
You may have done it once or twice or ten or one hundred times and everything was fine, but it does not then become empirical evidence that it will therefore be safe every time you use it forever afterward.  It is a matter of time.  It's really that simple. 

Cash is king.  Keep some stuffed in your shoe if you must.  But I would not put all my faith in plastic.