Scam - or NOT a Scam ?

[Admin]

Scenario when joining Anastasiaweb:

Step 1. Register an account
Step 2. Upon Registration, complete a profile providing information about yourself

Note: 20 complimentary credits are given upon registering an account

Step 3. Immediately upon registering an account, pop-ups appear that suggest women wish to chat with you online. Online chat requires payment of 1 credit per minute (see attached screenshot)

Step 4. Open the "Mailing System - Inbox". There are 4 'letters' awaiting me. To "Read the letter" will cost 10 credits for each letter I read (see attached screenshot)

Step 5. There is an option to "Purchase Credits" (see attached screenshot)

To this point, I have opened an account. I have provided profile information. I can perform searches to find ladies who might interest me. I see pop-up windows that automatically minimize after a short time. I have been provided 20 'credits' for use.

I have NOT made contact with any women - though I have sufficient 'free' credits to enable me to do so.

Do you see any SCAM yet?

[ECOCKS]

No. I see a romance introduction site combined with a softsell sex/erotic/whatever you want to call it fantasy site designed to separate guys from their money and provide income to Yuri and Oleg plus some paid hourly work to some young to middleaged females.

[Admin]

No. I see a romance introduction site combined with a softsell sex/erotic/whatever you want to call it fantasy site designed to separate guys from their money and provide income to Yuri and Oleg plus some paid hourly work to some young to middleaged females.

I am only just beginning.

Aweb is considered by many to be the worst scam agency in existence. I'd like to explore exactly where the scam occurs.

I note that we have one vote claiming the scenario described above is a scam. Gotta say, I do not see it. There has been no loss of money - which is a requisite for a scam to exist.

For those of you who are experienced with these agencies - GUIDE ME. Tell me what to post - in the profile or elsewhere. Tell me whether to chat - or email - or whatever. I will follow your lead and will make screenshots and faithfully record the experience - at least, so long as I am allowed on the site.

In this way - maybe we can SEE exactly where the SCAM occurs - if one exists. I really want to SEE it - and expect you all would as well.

So guide me.

What next?

- Dan

[ECOCKS]

And I thought I clearly said I see it as the soft sell of erotic/romantic fantasy. That is with regard to the part of girls ONLINE waiting to chat NOW! They are using a honey-trap approach and luring you into chatting with your so-called "free credits" in order to get you to buy more once you have been hooked by their chat girls. No different than the Vegas comp system which gives you $100+ in free chips to get the pump primed and standing at the tables. Vegas now even has deals where you get $100 for blackjack, $50 for roulette, $100 for poker and so on as they try to identify your desires and weaknesses. I see this as no different.

The search feature usage, so far, shows no "scam" in place in my opinion.

[Gator]

I hit "yes" when I meant "no."  

My answer is "No" at this point of the transaction.

What we see is the beginning of an illusion for the purpose of separating a man from some pocket change.  There is no false representation at this point, although all the experienced men believe a deception is coming.   Unless someone unwittingly has bought the fantasy, we subscribe to this belief based solely on hearsay.  Maybe this time the girls will be real, writing real letters.


We don't know what the letters contain.  Perhaps the letters from the pretty women contain useful information about how to navigate the site.  I would need to see what the women say in their letters.

If a man opened one letter, no money has exchanged hands yet. He opened his letter (or chatted) with free credits.

Dan, your following statement is misleading:

Step 3. Immediately upon registering an account, pop-ups appear that suggest women wish to chat with you online. Online chat requires payment of 1 credit per minute (see attached screenshot)

In contrast, I would interpret that the women are available for chat, not that they wish to chat with "me" in particular.



Dan, you have a good legal mind.  Is a scam the same as fraud?

From Wiki:

Common law fraud has nine elements:

a representation of an existing fact;
its materiality;
its falsity;
the speaker's knowledge of its falsity;
the speaker's intent that it shall be acted upon by the plaintiff;
plaintiff's ignorance of its falsity;
plaintiff's reliance on the truth of the representation;
plaintiff's right to rely upon it; and
consequent damages suffered by plaintiff.

Most jurisdictions in the United States require that each element be pled with particularity and be proved with clear, cogent, and convincing evidence (very probable evidence) to establish a claim of fraud.

[Admin]

I hit "yes" when I meant "no."  

My answer is "No" at this point of the transaction.

What we see is the beginning of an illusion for the purpose of separating a man from some pocket change.  There is no false representation at this point, although all the experienced men believe a deception is coming.   Unless someone unwittingly has bought the fantasy, we subscribe to this belief based solely on hearsay.  Maybe this time the girls will be real, writing real letters.


We don't know what the letters contain.  Perhaps the letters from the pretty women contain useful information about how to navigate the site.  I would need to see what the women say in their letters.

If a man opened one letter, no money has exchanged hands yet. He opened his letter (or chatted) with free credits.

Dan, your following statement is misleading:
In contrast, I would interpret that the women are available for chat, not that they wish to chat with "me" in particular.



Dan, you have a good legal mind.  Is a scam the same as fraud?

From Wiki:

I just edited the poll to allow people to change their vote. If this topic develops some interest and we continue in the process, there may be things develop that would inspire a member to change their vote in either direction.

In terms of a definition for "Scam" - this, from the RWDpedia Glossary:

Scam: The act of depriving by deceit.

This simple definition begs the question - deprived of what? I offer that it is deprived of anything of value - be it time, money, or emotional investment.

Comments and thoughts?

- Dan

[Shadow]

It is always hard to find the proper way in to such a scenario.

When you have just registered and given basic profile information, it is very likely that the 4 letters in the inbox are generated by an automatic matching system, not by women who saw you register and 'fell in love'.

The devil is in the details here. If there is anywhere mentioned that there is no automatic process, the deceit has started. Otherwise the automatic system has matched, and the women may or may not exist and may or may not be notified and/or interested.

Before progressing you should make a decision on which path to follow.

A. The absurd. A 300 pound, 4 foot midget of 80 years old wishing to meet a 20-23 year old lady should theoretically not gain iny kind of interest. However if automatic matching systems are at work, there still will be.

B. The genuine. Completing a profile that may garner sincere interest, but it will be hard to measure. However doing so only to investigate does mean you are trying to deceive, and a reverse scam could be taking place.

C. The incredible. Completing a profile that shows a movie star women that might attract women. Hugh Jackman comes to mind. Would be an obvious deceit from your side, but might attract sincere interest.

[GQBlues]

Thoughts for now from me...

I think the time you (an unsuspecting person) actually responds to the invitation to chat despite using the token credit, by technicality, is already a scam.

The word 'free' credit no longer applies if the act of inviting him for a chat was in fact a well-orchestrated act by the agency to separate him from his 'free credit' and thereby exposing him to pay for additional credit from here on in.

A deception already occured if the invitation to chat was designed to pull back the 'free credit'.

[Lazarus]

SCAM??
I don't see one yet Dan.
But just to be on the safe side, if I were you, I would give all of your credit cards and banking information (PayPal, etc.) to your RW tonight before she retires to sleep for the evening. :evil:

Laz

[ECOCKS]

Thoughts for now from me...

I think the time you (an unsuspecting person) actually responds to the invitation to chat despite using the token credit, by technicality, is already a scam.

The word 'free' credit no longer applies if the act of inviting him for a chat was in fact a well-orchestrated act by the agency to separate from his 'free credit' and thereby exposing him to pay for additional credit from here on in.

I don't see a "free" membership so I don't count the credits as "free" either.

[Gator]

I just joined the AnastasiaDate.com site.  My experience was somewhat different than Dan's experience.

1.  I received no letters from RW in my inbox other than a welcome from management.

2.  Management's welcome letter explained the complimentary credits as follows:

Welcome to AnastasiaDate.com, the easiest and most advanced way to meet the most beautiful and eligible Russian Ladies imaginable.

To get you started, we have placed 20 complimentary credits on Your Account! Enjoy them with any of the great ways Anastasia offers to help you get close to the many thousands of delicious Ladies here.

Eager to meet someone right away? Choose one of Anastasia’s ravishing Online Ladies and start chatting immediately. You can step it up by seeing her chat you up real time with Live Chat with Video.

3.  Popups of pretty 19yo - 25yo RW came every few minutes under the banner: Start chatting right now.   The RW checked boxes such as:  "I am here,"  "I’m online," "Hi nice man," [they obviously have confused me with someone else, maybe newkt ]  "Let’s chat," and  "Invite me."

Also, I did a search for women 43-49 yo.  Half the women were not attractive IMO. Almost all of the upper 25% were consistent with RW whom I have dated seriously.  I recognized a few from searches with other agencies.  A few RW did seem like "ringers," perhaps because of old photos from their younger days, professional photos and/or photoshop on steroids. Many of the "desired ages" for men were implausible. 90!?

What I saw was NOT a scam.

[Faux Pas]

I don't see it as a scam myself. Certainly unsavory practice and not a shred if legitimacy but, not what "I" would define as a scam. It reminds me of what one might find on a porn site. Slimy and designed to milk a credit card. If they did not follow through with what they say, would make it a scam. Chatting, getting matches, showing pictures and letters are all easy enough for them to do. It's not a scam if you get what you pay for, IMO

[SANDRO43]

In terms of a definition for "Scam" - this, from the RWDpedia Glossary:
Scam: The act of depriving by deceit.
This simple definition begs the question - deprived of what? I offer that it is deprived of anything of value - be it time, money, or emotional investment.

I agree, and it's an AND/OR relationship . When has this fisherman actually 'scammed' his fish? Only after walking ashore with his catch:

But setting out nets, lines, hooks, bait, etc. can be construed as a deliberate, wilful and necessary preparation for it . Thus is scam only in the conclusion depicted above, or already discernible in what preceded it?

IMO, you current situation as member of Anastasia is just that lures have been properly arranged, and taking the bait now is up to you. Not much of a chance given your experience, but what about those others newer to the sport?

We've all been 'netted' one way or the other by these fishermen . Many managed to wiggle away with minor damage, others fell into the frying pan .

[ECOCKS]

Reminds me about the pirates who aren't pirates because they weren't successful. Turns out under US law there is no crime for attempted piracy, you actually have to seize the ship, steal and/or injure someone. Splitting hairs.

[Steamer]

Is it a robbery when the hot decoy distracts you or only after your wallet is lifted?

[Sculpto]

dope dealers always give you the first hit for free.. SCAM!

[Admin]

With an UNrepresentative sample of a mere 7 votes, we have 3 Yes, 3 No, and 1 Undecided.

Given that kind of result, it is no surprise the blacklist sites do such a brisk business.

To this point, we have no wrongdoing - unless one follows GQ's logic (a legitimate line, I should add) and counts the time lost responding to chats and emails of dubious (HIGHLY dubious) origins.

Let's draw a parallel.

My wife has absolutely destroyed the WMF knife set that was new when she arrived. As a result, I have been looking at cutlery sets. I found a couple of sites that provide reviews of various manufacturer's products such as Henckels, Wustof, and the ones I am likely to purchase, Messermeister (unless I get a wild hair and decide to splurge for the Misono UX10's). When I visited the site containing reviews of these different knives, I was barraged with advertisements for each of the product lines. I saw banners left right and center - and those annoying pop-ups when you rollover certain text. Still, I was able to discern useful information from the site to aid me in making a decision.

Is Aweb any different?

There has not been a single penny spent/lost. It mystifies me how anyone could consider this a scam - at this point (maybe later). Even the argument about time spent seems pretty hollow - right now, anyway. Were I not in the market for knives, I would not be searching. If one is not seeking a relationship, they would not join Aweb. Once the decision is made to BE in the market, then it follows there is going to be a time investment. That is hardly a SCAM - it is a choice.

What am I missing that HALF of the (admittedly too few) respondents would declare this a scam AT THIS JUNCTURE?!?

- Dan

[ECOCKS]

Are any of those knives professing the potential to be YOUR one and only knife forever and ever? Did you pay to be bombarded by these ads promising cutlery fidelity for eternity?

Seriously Dan, the knives aren't waiting to talk with you on a credit-per-minute basis, they want you to buy them and accept shipment when they arrive at your home. These knives have no intention of spending a night in your drawers. Do you really believe that anyone of the girls Online NOW! waiting to chat with you are willing to seal a deal and arrange their actual transportation to your home for the purpose of wedded bliss?

No, I don't really see it as a scam, I see it as the marketing of sex to someone who is supposedly looking for a LTR. In your analogy it would be more like paying to join a knife-buying club and then immediately being deluged with offers of ornate katana's and authentic cavalry sabers and bastard vorpal swords all of which are going to be more than happy at a lifetime prospect of cutting your ribeye steaks into bite-sized chunks.

[Sculpto]

Dan.. I am curious.. how far do you wish to go with this experiment?

[Steamer]

When Aweb gives you a few credits and then overwhelms you with model types to spend your credits on and buy more when that runs out seriously sounds like a scam. I don't care what it sounds like in court. I'm not a cop or a judge. It sounds like someone is trying to pull a fast one on me using sexy photos.

[SANDRO43]

Seriously Dan, the knives aren't waiting to talk with you on a credit-per-minute basis, they want you to buy them and accept shipment when they arrive at your home.

Besides, there might be a "Money back guaranteed if not satisfied" clause that I doubt Anastasia's knives offer .

[SANDRO43]

With an UNrepresentative sample of a mere 7 votes, we have 3 Yes, 3 No, and 1 Undecided.

There should be another possible answer: "Too early to tell with assurance" . I haven't voted yet, but with my foreknowledge I'd vote YES.

One can diagnose sickness from early symptoms, and not have to wait for a post-mortem certificate .

[Daveman]

Perhaps closer to "Sham" than "Scam".....

Sham (n) : a trick that deludes : hoax <feared that the deal was a sham>

[Admin]

Dan.. I am curious.. how far do you wish to go with this experiment?

Good question.

RWD has the resources to spend a few $$ in this - if y'all want to go that direction. For that matter, I am happy to make a visit to the FSU to see if the person on the other end is real. Having said THAT, the challenge becomes one of maintaining ethics and integrity for ALL parties. As everyone knows, I am married. Notably Aweb has that option in the profile, so I can complete that honestly and continue the exercise - but then the exercise no longer takes on a parallel to what most of our members might experience.

Further, in the definition of "Scam" offered earlier, I intentionally defined it as anything of value including emotional investment. If we take THIS experiment very far, we run the distinct risk of someone in real life in the FSU beginning to make an emotional investment that is based on my/our fraud. We then, become the scammer, and I cannot do that with a clear conscience.

So y'all tell me. Where do you want to take this?

I think the exercise has merit. How do we conduct it in a manner that is honest and ethical and considerate of all parties - AND - exposes a scam *if* there is one?

- Dan

[ECOCKS]

Just one guy's opinion....

I'd say we'd need a single member to do an honest profile and detail it like a good, objective TR as to how it played out. Any married member would risk trouble even from a good FSU wife who mostly understood.

It should be one person to stay consistent and the person selected should be able to make the trip and spare the time to possibly "waste" on this project. If it came to that. There should be a general understanding of keeping it on a reasonably moral path by general social standards.

Arranging to meet 3-4 girls at most would be interesting.

On-going TR's would be fun to catch the comments and feedback.