Scam - or NOT a Scam ?

[veritas]

I don't know about that. You seem like a decent guy.

Thanks, Steamer -- I'm actually QUITE a "decent guy" ...    But go read "Almost-total newbie here" for the full scoop ...

Kevin

[Sculpto]

This one is an Orchid Agency girl.  Perfect subject for scam testing. 

You can meet this girl in real life.. two or three EXPENSIVE dates and maybe a shopping trip and thats it.. she will disappear "not interested" afterwards.

OMG, one of my 3 SmokinHotKova's -- from a D-M post of mine in ANOTHER thread -- allegedly "wrote" me, teddy and all:

http://www.dream-marriage.com/profile-Single-Ukrainian-Lady-Anastasia-948090.html

Hello Kevin

You seem to me very nice and strong-willed man. I would like to know more about you and with great pleasure I will tell you about my life and my personality. At least I hope that we will become friends. I hope that you are open and easy person ;-)) I want to dive in the whirlpool of love and affection with you, do you want to do the same?

I want to propose you my monologue and you will see my inner and world. Let’s talk about the beginning of people. Do you know the legend? I’ll tell it. Once roll creatures existed on the Earth, they had four hands, four legs and two faces. These unique creatures consisted from two lovely bodies and two hearts. Gods gave them all for ideal existence, but than creatures stopped to adore with Gods. Gods divided creatures on two halves and brought them all over the world. So people appeared and now they are looking for their own half. I hope to find my half. And you?
I think we have to try to communicate and may be you are my half.

Waiting for your answer,
Anastasia
__________________________

The "whirlpool of love and affection"??  From a smokin' hot 20-year-old in Kherson??  What TRIPE ...

Kevin

P.S.  I'll try to put a lid on my posting here -- for now, anyway ...

P.P.S.  HER PARTICULAR LOOKS are actually my "dream girl" sorta looks -- and 5' 10" to boot!    Hey, works for ME! 

[veritas]

This one is an Orchid Agency girl.  Perfect subject for scam testing. 

You can meet this girl in real life.. two or three EXPENSIVE dates and maybe a shopping trip and thats it.. she will disappear "not interested" afterwards.

Wow, thanks, Sculpto ... I was hoping you'd recognize one of these girls ...

And folks, I'm sorry for hijacking this thread and making it all about ME ...

Kevin

[Jooky]

What can you prove, however?

That's a problem. We can compare the Anastasia experience with a more reputable dating site and we can make educated guesses about what's going on, but it's hard to prove anything.

I can see already that trying to make a valid comparison between Anastasia and other sites could get expensive real quick!

Trying to put things into perspective:

Before my first trip to Russia I spent over four months communicating daily with the girl I went to visit. Back and forth, we exchanged over 100 emails and probably spent over 200 hours chatting online (and this is a low ball estimate!). When we met in person, we didn't click. She didn't seem like the girl I'd spent all that time chatting with (but I know for sure it was).

If I had done the same through AWeb, it would have cost me over $5000 bucks just to get to know this one girl. I probably would have felt scammed...

In a case like this, how could I distinguish a scam from a simple case of no chemistry?

How about another comparison. On a free or cheap dating site I wouldn't think twice about send out a hundred introductions. Some guys have sent out 500, 1000 or even more intitial intros in order to narrow their choices down to a dozen or so ladies. To do the same on AWeb, you can run through $5000 or more real quick, and that's just the first step.

And again, how would you sort the women that are interested you from the ones interested in turning a profit? (Or the ones interested in both?)

I think a better experiment would be to find a woman who's willing to reveal the full AWeb experience from the other side. Maybe some of the ladies that post here would be interested?

[BillyB]

Yes, it is a scam.  And some RWD members have reported their feelings that they believed this happen.  And one man (I forget his name, the articulate Hispanic from SoCal) reported that his woman later admitted that it was her job.

We do not know the percentage split of the communications between authentic and contrived.  One should be enough to avoid the agency.  End of story.  Is there a need to document the specifis steps to dupe a man into this trap.

Over the years of reading forums, there were a lot of men who reported meeting women that talked about the shady agency tactics they know of or required to do to fool men into thinking they had a serious girl interested in them.

A lot of men with good intentions, not having access to a forum with info, and fresh into dating women again don't expect the agency that is supposed to bring people together to screw him over. Helping people find love is a good thing, right? How much harm can they do?

On my way back to America I sat near a man who used AnastasiaDate. He said sending letters and using their phone service were very expensive and couldn't get the contact info of the ladies he was interested in.

He wished he could learn more about the lady he was visiting so he decided to go there to find out. After spending $1000 on interpretation services he's not sure she's into him as much as he would like. "Cold" was the word he used to describe her at times but she blamed it on her culture.

He had his suspicions about the agency. Previously he phoned other ladies and they wouldn't remember anything talked about in letters which he thought strange. On video chat the young girls would be wanting to chat with him when it's 2-3 AM FSU time. He watched one girl reading her messages and he hadn't received a message from her in minutes yet without her typing, he received a message from her as almost as if someone else is assisting on video chat to keep the flow of messages to customers steady.

He didn't seem a disgruntled customer that is looking to slander the company but just a guy who felt something didn't feel right. I gave him some other sites to use if he decides not to get into a relationship with the lady he visited.

[kievstar]

Aweb is fine just need to know how to use them.  More men get married on Aweb than any other RW site.

Key is quit the stupid letter writing.  Just meet women face to face.

Sculpto, that woman you posted is 20 years old.  Anyone who would visit her and expect marriage????

[Jooky]

Key is quit the stupid letter writing.  Just meet women face to face.

How?

Can men just drop into AWeb affiliates and request meetings? Agency locations aren't listed on the site and dropping in doesn't seem like a service offered directly through the site.

According to the site you need to exchange 10 letters (5 each way) just to request a meeting. At that point, if you're writing to a non-existent or non-interested lady, she can turn down your request.

[BillyB]

How?

Can men just drop into AWeb affiliates and request meetings? Agency locations aren't listed on the site and dropping in doesn't seem like a service offered directly through the site.

According to the site you need to exchange 10 letters (5 each way) just to request a meeting. At that point, if you're writing to a non-existent or non-interested lady, she can turn down your request.

Jooky, Kievstar isn't serious. He justs likes to bug me since I promote correspondence before visiting a woman. Giving advice to spend $3000-5000 to visit a photo of a woman listed at an agency isn't sane without prior correspondence to figure out if she's walking the same path in life.

Men are not getting married to RW at Aweb more than any other site. Mamba.ru is the place where men are getting married to RW more than anywhere else on the internet.

almost 15,000 RW at Bride.ru and it costs a few $ per full contact info, postal, email addresses, and phone numbers and there is no charge from the site for sending out emails or calling which a guy can do on his own sending out hundreds of emails and spending hours on the phone with the ladies and not breaking the bank doing so.

Over 20,000 RW at freepersonal.ru and millions of RW at mamba.ru and there is no charge for sending messages to RW through their sites and women are free to give out their contact info if they like a man.

Women at those sites aren't influenced by agencies on what to write or pressured to write and date men they aren't interested in and their correspondence with men isn't controlled or done by Igor, the employee of the month.

A guy can expect more rejection from less beautiful but non photoshopped ladies at those dating sites but the fact is the women behave there more naturally rejecting massive amounts of men and there is a very small chance they will write men first. A guy may feel more rejection but the most important thing is that the attention he does get is real. All a guy would have to watch out for is the occasional scammer, pro dater, and gold digger that no dating site or agency can prevent 100% from listing a profile.

[Jooky]

Giving advice to spend $3000-5000 to visit a photo of a woman listed at an agency isn't sane without prior correspondence to figure out if she's walking the same path in life.

I agree. Now, if you can just drop into an agency and set up dates for that day or the next, I can see it as a viable method to meet women. I just don't see how this is practical or even possible for the normal guy using AWeb. That's why I ask how it's done.

Men are not getting married to RW at Aweb more than any other site.

I don't see the evidence either. AWeb lists about 20 success stories for this year so far, and these include successful 'meetings', not marriages. That seems like a low number for such a popular site.

I also recommend bride.ru, freepersonals and mamba. I've found them all to be very easy ways to meet real women without agency interference.

Women at those sites aren't influenced by agencies on what to write or pressured to write and date men they aren't interested in and their correspondence with men isn't controlled or done by Igor, the employee of the month.

That's the biggest problem I see with agencies such as AWeb.

I imagine this scenario:

I write to 100 women on AWeb and a write to 100 on bride.ru.

On bride.ru I'll get a few responses from scammers and gold diggers, but they are easy to spot. Women that aren't interested will just not write to me. So with one email I get in touch mostly with women that have a real interest.

On AWeb, what if I get 100 responses? How could I differentiate between women that are really interested, women that are just talking to me because they are paid, or women that are even talking to me at all but might be interested if we met in reality?

[seraphimangel]

Wow! What's captured my interest is that Gator referred to me in a very nice way 

***Caveat, this really only applies to beautiful 18-22 year old women, I can't talk about anyone else, I haven't had any experience****

Ok, but seriously, I have no idea what my experience will add to this, but I can honestly say that I really don't think AWeb itself is the culprit as much as the whole system.  If a system exists where pretty girls can make money through the stupidity of lonely men while not having to have sex with them either.... how can you expect this not to occur?

I mean, I believe the phone rule is 3 correspondence exchanges both ways... by the way. 

In any event, I was able to get direct phone numbers and emails of every girl I tried to contact on that system.  I had my own translators to calls these girls after, and they all remembered me from my voice on 2nd call and referred to me by name, my stories and knew me personally.  Hell, I called one gorgeous Blonde v. brunette contestant 4 months after not talking and as soon as I said hello she said "OMG ##### it's you! Where have you been?" I mean, all these girls are real... I can (from my experience) say that they all look like that... minus the photoshop work and are real human beings...

What bothered me was that after spending time getting to know them personally, they (all but one) seemed over the top nice to me.  I mean, people are generally nice, but ego stroking and worship is beyond normal.  They all eventually had traumatic life experiences which gave me the opportunity to save them.  Something about this just rang false.

If a girl tells you she isn't getting paid, she may be lying.  If she says that she isn't aware people are paid, SHE IS LYING.  If she says she's only talking to you, SHE'S LYING.  If texting is too expensive, SHE IS LYING.  ... it's 1.5 UAH... or... 17 cents.  Considering their rough pay... in less than 1 day of work... she's earned enough to send you over 150 text messages.  So when she runs out of minutes, it just means she doesn't want to bother, or between you and the other guys... she doesn't want to spend on you anymore.

This has later turned out to be more right than I care to explain as some of them are real life friends now... and knowing them personally.. I have skype, emails and everything necessary to screw AWEB and people to walls if I wanted to.. but.. I like them all as people personally. I've even met one in real life, and she's a really amazing girl... just not for me... and I found myself saying no, ... that's just life.

The one who was not as nice to me seemed real because she had her ups and downs.  She, in fact used very sneaky tactics to give me her phone number and email through video chat ... she wrote on a paper and put it up to the camera and said.. I don't want you paying for our time. 

.... long story short... she and I ... .did not work... she admitted that it is work and that she is paid for the time she speaks to guys.  She took pride in having 50 guys daily writing to her (I insulted her when I guessed 20 when she asked).  She took pride in knowing their stories enough to keep them on a string. She laughed at how she could treat some of the "dirty old pigs" who write to her.  She admitted that she had no desire to marry any foreign man and that most of her friends didn't either as they had options at home.

Also, someone here once warned me about this... and it's probably the most important thing I learned.  THEY ALL TALK TO EACH OTHER!!! If you flirt with a 20 year old girl in Puerto Niko  I promise you that the 21 year old girl in Nikolaev you're also flirting with, knows this... and you are automatically a pig now.  Expect to be played with an scammed through letter/video/phone usage.  God I hate their liberal use of the word pig to describe bad guys.  Anyhow, they trade stories like trading cards.  I ONCE clicked favorite on a girl who was 28 from Niko only to have my ear chewed off 2 hours later and have crying in my ear because I'm insincere and nothing but a typical American pig.

Plus I have heard this phrase often ... "I like to party on Anastasia, Dream Marriage, blah blah blah".... so know, their mindset is.. this is a game. 

The only reason these girls are my friends now, is because I simply don't care anymore.  I canceled my accounts.  (actually ... 2 of them canceled theirs too... see... some of them have moral issues with this too)...

Some wrote to me in email to apologize for treating me like that and to ask if we could start from the beginning as friends.  I thought this was scam version 2.0 because this happened after I canceled my accounts.  But, they are very different now with me.  Behavior wise, they are actual humans with bad days (normal bad days, not dramatic save me days) and good days.  They chastise me like real friends when I do wrong, and are generally very supportive when right.  They approve or disapprove of who I date in the U.S.  They even give me occasion advice... which ... sometimes works... they know something  I receive emails, post cards, I even have a strange beadwork palm tree for my office made by one.  I get text messages saying "can you go on skype later please, I had a bad day and need to talk".  Go figure? 

So... is AWEB a scam? NO!
Do they overcharge for something others provide as well? Yes.
Do they feed a scam industry? Yes. And for this reason, as the most popular, you should know that the probability one meeting with insincere people is very very high. 
Are all the girls scammers? No.
Are girls who are 18-22 usually scammers? Depends on your definition but a higher probability exists that these girls are not serious at all about anything of significant value. 

... most of them tell me that guys don't usually follow through and visit, so there is really little risk to them... they simply flirt and play with you and receive white pay and some envelope money as well.  The ones who are scammers are the ones who have learned to enjoy you visiting and getting from you and leaving.  I don't know any of those (but they have linked me some of the girls that do do this).  The ones I know, have enjoyed getting men to send them stuff, and in return.. they fulfill male fantasy by pretending that a young, beautiful, model quality girl is actually interested in this 40 year old, overweight, balding man who promises a BMW... as if this was beyond her reach?

Anyhow... at the end of the day.. your experience will be your own.  My advice, stay away from AWEB if you're looking for a young girl.  I gained very little of value from Aweb with these girls towards anything of value while using the system, anything of value came after I closed my account... BUT... it is also the reason I have some friends there too now.

So, ... learn more... don't use AWEB.. make friends there.... whichever place you want to go... visit... it will vastly change your perspective.

I'm off to sleep, I'm sure there are horrible typos and bad grammar, and incoherent thoughts and ramblings.. but I'm sleep deprived at the moment. 

[Jooky]

Ok, but seriously, I have no idea what my experience will add to this

I think it adds a lot! Thanks!

I really don't think AWeb itself is the culprit as much as the whole system

I don't think it matters. What's important is to determine if AWeb is a viable way for guys to meet sincere women looking to marry foreigners. From your experience, it sounds like the answer is 'no'.

I went back and read some of your earlier posts. You are:

32 +
In good shape (hit the gym) +
Outgoing +
Have no problems dating in California +
Were contacting women that are average by your US dating standards +
Must have a cool personality for several women to come clean with you about AWeb +

If you were in Russia, good looking 18-22 year olds would be well within your league. I'm telling you, you would have zero problems lining up real dates with girls in Russia. I'm sure you know that now. 

It sounds like you had fun on AWeb, but the whole system works against you if your goal was to meet a girl that could be your wife.

I have a few questions:

1) Did you converse with any ladies that contacted you first? If yes, do you know if:

- They really contacted you first.
- They were spamming just anyone to drum up business.
- The agency sent out introduction emails for them.
- Some other option.

2) How many ladies did you exchange emails or converse with in total?

3) Did you actually make a trip to Ukraine or Russia yet? You say you met one of these girls in real life, so I'm guessing you did. Did you travel just to meet her?

Thanks for sharing everything. It sounds like you had a very unique experience with AWeb, and this information can help a lot of guys who are on the fence about using these big agency sites.

[Gator]

Hi Seraphimangel,

Thanks for showing up.  Your experience is very relevant and insightful.

Wow! What's captured my interest is that Gator referred to me in a very nice way 

There was no other way to describe you unless I wanted to lie.

So... is AWEB a scam? NO!

This puzzles me because you were told directly by the young women that they are paid by AW to flirt with men.  Do they not encourage a typical caller, yet are more interested in stringing the guy along for revenue rather than learning more about him and hoping it leads to something?

You have keen insights into women and quickly understood the "game" they were playing.  Would you feel it was a scam if you were an Average Joe and had paid $1000 in chat and webcam fees to get to know her?  Then you made an expensive trip to Ukraine only to discover that the UW is indifferent, suggesting that she never had a sincere interest in you? 

The RWD archives are replete with the example that I just gave you.  You are the exception.

IIRC, when you came to RWD you had not dated RW, yet were intrigued from brief encounters with them around your city.  Still intrigued?

[kievstar]

Should have said more men from USA marry RW from A-web than any other marriage agency. Number one is through work and not agency or free personal.  Easiest way to get married is go work in FSU.  I have met dozens of men married through anastiaweb tours.  I am not listed on A-web as being married and technically I met my wife through A-web.  Agencies lose track of women as once a man meets them they leave the agency and rarely is their follow up.

Very easy to find A-web local agencies, remember there affiliates.  You can look on Jim's list he breaks it out.  Has agencies by cities.  If he no longer has that info, let me know and there are several other ways to get it.

I have posted many times on RWD never write though A-web.  Just meet women face to face.  I know several owners of affiliate A-web agencies and they make money off agency workers writing on behalf of serious and non serious women.  Women are not going to waste there time writing letters through an agency.  They let the agency handle it and meet men in person. 

I posted in a different thread months ago how to use an agency and spend little time and money.  Remember if you have a close relationship with the agency you will meet the best women.  How many men actually try to make a relationship with agency? Your not making a relationship with the local agency by writing letters.

If you do like to write than use free personals.  Have fun doing it.  Just remember thousands of men are visiting every month and thousands more work in FSU.  Longer you spend writing the higher chance of RW finding someone else.  There are more and more flights to FSU every month so it is very easy for men to fly now.  Plus more hotels and Euro 2012 is going to bring men like crazy to Ukraine. 

Many methods work - so if you like to write use free personals and never agency.

Jooky - billyb is very pro write free personals.  I am more of use best approach based on person which includes using several methods.  Do not throw A-web aside as many of the A-web women are also on EM and free personals.  But A-web only works in person and never write. 

I met more than 50 women in person through A-web and every woman I wanted to meet was a real girl.  I used to live in Ukraine so made it easier.  I even met women other men said were scammers if they were over 26 years old.  Never found one of them to be a scammer.  But they would take a men shopping if he bragged about having money or fancy house. 

A good looking man with good personality and younger than 40 can show up in any agency and within hours have many women willing to meet you.  Than be very nice with agency and not be a typical cheap ass like most foreigners looking for RW and they will tell you which are the serious best girls.

[Jooky]

If he no longer has that info, let me know and there are several other ways to get it.

I think a comprehensive list of small agencies like this and their locations would be much more useful than any further investigation into the AWeb site.

Maybe someone wants to make a project out of this?

[seraphimangel]

1) Did you converse with any ladies that contacted you first? If yes, do you know if:

- They really contacted you first.
Some, yes.  But I can't really confirm the intro letter.  There were times I would receive two letters at once.  The second was real, the first was admittedly a letter they are told to send to everyone to start.  
- They were spamming just anyone to drum up business.
Yes, many times.
- The agency sent out introduction emails for them.
Yes, this is true too.
- Some other option.
While this is something which may not be highly advised, most of the girls I know were video girls at some point.  They'd send intro lines, i'd read their profile, then I'd make fun of their horrible intros, if they had no sense of humor, I never wasted money on a letter.  If they shot back or understood, I knew they knew english well enough to get along.  Plus, it worked as a quick litmus and block in many ways.

2) How many ladies did you exchange emails or converse with in total?
Really don't remember.  I must have exchanged with over 50 and I only continued more than 1 or 2 times with like 8.  All of which I have personal information for.

3) Did you actually make a trip to Ukraine or Russia yet? You say you met one of these girls in real life, so I'm guessing you did. Did you travel just to meet her?
Yes, not for a girl, in fact, I went to meet a couple.  I called while there and she took a train to meet me while I was there.


Thanks for sharing everything. It sounds like you had a very unique experience with AWeb, and this information can help a lot of guys who are on the fence about using these big agency sites.

From Gator:

This puzzles me because you were told directly by the young women that they are paid by AW to flirt with men.  Do they not encourage a typical caller, yet are more interested in stringing the guy along for revenue rather than learning more about him and hoping it leads to something?

Yes, but I don't think Aweb is to blame directly for this.  It's like blaming a gun maker for shootings in inner-cities.  I think the marriage agency culture as a whole is to blame, mixed with the idea that foreign men help create this situation as well with how they treat these girls.  You basically arm girls with a weapon, then you taunt them and expect them not to shoot.  It's a dangerous game for everyone involved, and the people that get hurt worst, are those who were sincere and good people, who are even more rare than you imagine. I hate to say this, but just play the numbers guys, you are not all quality people.  Like that guy who wants to meet a girl he doesn't know and have a quick marriage, he needs maturing... when he has a bad situation happen, he'll run back here crying foul for a problem he himself created.  A comparable example is going to Vegas, getting drunk, meeting a hot chick and marrying her, then being angry at her for not being everything he imagined... who cares if she was lying or not.... he was stupid to get married and not really know her.  What do you think they think of us, when people like that run into their country and create chaos?  We are both feeding each other more fuel for this.  Best answer is ... be friends with people... LOL... and get there before 2012 Euro cup ... that's when all hope will be gone.

[kievstar]

Jooky, visit Jim's list he has all the agencies where there located and what there affiliation.  goggle Jim's list.  This has been out there more than 5 years.  How do you think I found the 30 plus agencies in Kiev alone. 

I have yet to find anyone who really understands how to use the agency to there benefit.  Marriage agencies have been around 10 plus years in Ukraine but foreign men yet to understand how to use them rather than be used themselves.  Using agencies is an untapped market if you know what your doing.  Remember there are many women not listed on the agency website as there agreement with agency is only men in person and no photo for public display.  Your not going to meet these women unless you really know the agency.   

[Jooky]

Hey Kievstar,

Yeah, I looked at Jim's Lists again yesterday. It could be done much better. He has some addresses listed, some not, and the main goal is to categorize agencies based on his criteria of what's good and bad. I think it's a mess.

Anyways, I'm not looking to use an agency, I just think a good comprehensive list on this site with advice on how to properly use an agency to your advantage would benefit a lot of guys here.

[kievstar]

Jooky, you will find every man has a different approach on how to use an agency. 

Couple tips I have.

Rent apartment from agency even if $20 usd more a night.  That extra $140 usd a week is a drop in the bucket but helps cement your relations with agency.  Do bring chocolate and small gifts for the agency workers on 1st meeting (1st impressions are important).  Dress like a stylish RM as well.  How you dress is important more than how much you hit the gym.

Agency workers really know the girls and who would be a good match for you.  Do listen to the agency on girls you should meet.  Let them pick the first two dates.  Another $100 down the drain but you need to spend some money and act like there in charge.  Never complain about money if you do visit another agency as your going to be known as cheap. 

The agency workers in many cases are very friendly with the agency girls.  Women like to talk.  You come across as a good catch and let the agency take care of you you will be surprised on the service and girls you meet that are not on the website.

Most important date in your league.  Date outside of it the agency will view you not serious.  This is where 95% plus men fail and the remaining 5% tend to be cheap. 

Average man who visits the agency will meet a young girl in the mix and immediately that is a negative.  Agency will milk you for all you have and waste your time.  Many men also try to negotiate price.  Come across cheap and they throw the non serious girls at you. 

Hard to write how it works but you need to treat the agency like a close friend.  Having them become your close friend is something very few do.

I can tell you in Kiev there are many women who will only meet men after the pass the face to face inspection by the agency worker assigned to her.  These women are not all out of town suddenly or have a sick grandmother.  Agency does this not to hurt someones feelings when in reality the man is not in the league of what the women is looking for.  If the agency lets this man meet and girl pissed she has many other agencies to go to.  Agencies have to be very careful to steer the non serious men to non serious girls.  Agencies carry a supply of women to meet many demands.

Many men date out of their league and really should spend more time on improving themselves to have a bigger pond to fish successfully.

[knighta]

I didn’t read a single page but my experiences has been this.

 A couple of years ago I was on Aweb for a couple of years.  I made a few trips.  Prior to when I left for my first trip to Ukraine Aweb told me they could no longer get ahold of the lady.  I decided to go anyways.  My lady wasn’t there so being my first time in this country I treated it as a tourist trip and had a good time in Kiev.  Aweb also refunded all the credits for our correspondence.
 
My next trip I went to Belarus my first time.  The lady I gave her some money prior to when we met for train tickets so she and her friend who was our translator throughout the trip could meet me in Minsk from Gomel and we met at the airport.  My suitcase never did arrive from the US.  My lady I was seeing invited me to her home and gave me her bed while she took the couch.  Which I was a little surprised with since I would have been have to sleep on the couch but she insisted.  Her and her parents lived there. Later on during my stay there she took me to a market to get some new clothes and gave me a couple of her brother’s clothes until my suitcase arrived.  The past several days she made several phone calls for my suitcase to arrive in Minsk.  She also took me to the theater, a museum, the circus and a couple of other places.  During this time we found out we were not for each but parted on good terms.  She also gave me a gift. 

My third trip the lady I visited lived in Kherson but wanted to meet in Odessa.  Shortly afterward we found out we weren’t for each other.  The pictures from the Aweb website and even personal pictures sent through snail mail looked nothing like lady I was with. 

My fourth trip was in Mariupol and this lady left a message and waited an hour in front of my door a couple of days into my trip.  Prior to when I left I gave her my apartment address.  If I remember correctly I would have to check our correspondence to make sure, but I believe the agency wouldn’t give it to her.  I think she had to pester them.  Later that evening she came back to my door by herself and stayed maybe only five minutes.   Just to talk on the phone with a translator and make plans for tomorrow.  During our trip we had a good time and in the end she gave me a gift and wanted to see me again.  Later on she became my fiancé. 

One person from Sandro43’s Double Dealer website is #38 Tatiana Malyuga was on Aweb.  Another person who wrote me I noticed her birth date was different on a different website.  Aweb canceled her membership until she corrected it. 

[tim 360]

When does a scam begin?  Most scams really begin when the scammer sets the trap/bait for a sucker who will soon enter the picture.

Lets say it's an email scam.  The scam begins when the scammer has composed and then sent that Nigerian email out to thousands of suckers.  

Or lets take the Russian wallet scam.  As soon as the scammers set-up the "dropped wallet" for a sucker--the scam has begun.

With marriage agencies:  When they fraudulently take your money letting you think Anna wrote the letters--when really it was a terp who gets paid to write letters for the girls.

With your Madoff investment:  It began as soon as Bernie knew he would use your money for other things than honest investing.

There is also conspiracy to defraud--but...

Now with your Aweb scenario:  This is to me a very subtle manipulation of guys, especially gullible guys.  Aweb definitely sets a trap/bait but then the new mouse goes for the cheese.  I also think some guys get scammed more than others.  Never used them so I don't know enough but it seems like a set-up which will abuse the customer.

[Gylden]

The only way to 100% avoid not being scammed by an agency is to not use one. Then if you get scammed there is no one to blame except yourself.

The End
 

[tim 360]

+1.  Agree, but many like to blame others instead of their own flawed judgement.

[Eduard]

I don't know any more whether to laugh or cry when I read all these posts about Aweb and other agencies on the forums as well as getting emails from guys almost on a daily basis that tell always a very similar story (this is an excerpt from today's email) : "I already went to Odessa to meet a girl from the website “Anastaisa”  the girl was real, but she was not excited to meet me, as she said she was in her letters.  Now I’m writing to girls in Kharkov,  I GET SO CONFUSED AND FUSTRATED! "
It is beyond my comprehension why so many WM choose to waste years of their life and tens of thousands on this path of BS when things can be accomplished so easily, quickly and relatively inexpensively when you think just a bit outside the box... Any reasonable man with realistic expectations can find and meet a number of FSU women who are real, sincere and genuine and not ever deal with scam and prodaters.
I find it so frustrating to read these endless threads about the same thing, so I've been staying away and not posting much lately... Sorry for this "scream in the dark" interruption, carry on.

[tim 360]

I don't know any more whether to laugh or cry when I read all these posts about Aweb and other agencies on the forums as well as getting emails from guys almost on a daily basis that yell always a very similar story (this is an excerpt from today's email) : "I already went to Odessa to meet a girl from the website “Anastaisa”  the girl was real, but she was not excited to meet me, as she said she was in her letters.  Now I’m writing to girls in Kharkov,  I GET SO CONFUSED AND FUSTRATED! "
It is beyond my comprehension why so many WM choose to waste years of their life and tens of thousands on this path of BS when things can be accomplished so easily, quickly and relatively inexpensively when you think just a bit outside the box... Any reasonable man with realistic expectations can find and meet a number of FSU women who are real, sincere and genuine and not ever deal with scam and prodaters.
I find it so frustrating to read these endless threads about the same thing, so I've been staying away and not posting much lately... Sorry for this "scream in the dark" interruption, carry on.

Ed,  I totally agree.  It is crazy that so many guys get scammed by these various agencies like Aweb and HRB.  Take heart in PT Barnum, "A sucker is born every minute."  Sad but true and nothing we can do about it.  Scream away...

Most of these guys would be far better off hiring you to seperate the wheat from the chaff than paying crooked agencies and have to deal with the BS themselves with their limited knowledge and skills.

[Gylden]

Most of these guys would be far better off hiring you to seperate the wheat from the chaff than paying crooked agencies and have to deal with the BS themselves with their limited knowledge and skills.

I'd take it step further and say IMO most of these guys would be better off forgetting the idea of finding a foreign bride, and most likely a portion of them should forget about a long term relationship, until doing a little soul searching and maybe a little house cleaning.

Sorry to anyone if it sounds a bit stern, but IMO needs to be said.