She has a Visa?

[jdaco70]

Hey Everybody, just thought I would give everyone an update! By the way, thanks for all the replies!! Anyhow, moving to the meat of it all. She did show up, and we met. I must admit, it was a tad dicey at first, she speaks english well enough, but there were still some communication difficulties, and yes, she was who I saw, and actually even prettier in person, simply put, she was gorgeous. So, long story short, we really did end up having a great time together. Stayed in NYC for a few days at my sisters, drove back to NC by way of Washington DC, stayed in NC for a few days then went to the beach for the weekend prior to her leaving. She was here for almost 2 weeks.

With the fun we had together, I must admit, I am a bit confused. Maybe it is a culture difference, but to my understanding, a true Russian or Ukrainian woman would never ask a man to buy her many gifts, would they? Is this something that is expected? Now, I only ask this for opinions, as a good friend of mine is native Russian, and he said that would never happen if she were sincere and a good girl. But who knows, he has been here for almost 18 years now, so maybe things have changed? Anyhow, the entire trip was basically her seemingly trying to get me to buy her different gifts, shoes, dresses, you know, blah blah blah.  To her defense though, she never came right out and asked me to buy anything, but it was HEAVILY implied by her actions, So, everytime she would get something, she would pause, and kind of wait as if I were to jump in and pay for her, and when I didnt, you can see the look of dissapointment in her face. At one point, she was looking at this dress, and I told her how nice that would look on her, and she in an almost angrily way, told me that If I felt that way, I should buy it  for her. Well, that didnt happen..Quite frankly, I was shocked!

My thoughts are, I just met the girl, and our meeting was not supposed to be a shopping spree, and me buying her gifts all the time. I was shocked. It seems to me that love shouldnt be measured by the gifts you buy someone. Anyhow, I actually made a game out of it with her, and she ended up giving in (probably because she was stuck here), and then all went quite well from that point on. Of course, dinners, and being gentlemen like with her at all times, and I did end up getting her a few misc. things that I felt were appropriate. It was just the whole expecting it thing, that really threw me for a loop. So, at the end of the day, I was definately pleased with the meeting, and experience, but can say that she is most likely not going to be the one for me. ))

[Daveman]

...and actually even prettier in person, simply put, she was gorgeous.

...

...but to my understanding, a true Russian or Ukrainian woman would never ask a man to buy her many gifts, would they? Is this something that is expected?... her seemingly trying to get me to buy her different gifts, shoes, dresses, you know, blah blah blah.  To her defense though, she never came right out and asked me to buy anything, but it was HEAVILY implied by her actions, So, everytime she would get something, she would pause, and kind of wait as if I were to jump in and pay for her, and when I didnt, you can see the look of dissapointment in her face. At one point, she was looking at this dress, and I told her how nice that would look on her, and she in an almost angrily way, told me that If I felt that way, I should buy it  for her. Well, that didnt happen..Quite frankly, I was shocked!

This is generally how it goes - the more "gorgeous" the woman, the more guys tend to throw money at her to impress... so she comes to expect it..

And/or,some women really are looking for a sugar daddy type almost always directly proportional to how "gorgeous" she is...

And then, some are very materialistic and want everything under the sun and expect the man to buy it (just because that's a man's job)... a rather parasitical existence, but hey, there it is..

Then there's also that vein of envy she can tap with her friends...

The point is, there are many reasons why a woman will expect a man to buy her stuff, some valid, some parasitical... but with the attitude you portray of her, she definitely comes across as "high maintenance" which you can decide for yourself whether you want to be a maintainer...



I think it's natural for a woman to expect a man to do/buy/whatever some natural, normal things, however, if she's over the top and demanding, or always expecting everything she sees to jump into her hand (via your wallet) then you probably won't have such a happy future together unless you a) like that kind of thing b) are ridiculously rich and can afford to throw money in every direction (because the demands will always increase)...

But, glad she showed, and glad you had a wonderful time, whatever the future holds

[Shadow]

There are two things to take in to mind.
First of all she saved you the cost of taking a trip yourself, and I guess you did not pay her back the cost of the trip, so she might at least have expected you to be generous in giving some gifts.
On the other hand, it could be her way of getting a good value for holiday by taking home a bag full of gifts...

Trust your feelings if you think she is not the one, let her go.

[ECOCKS]

Sounds exactly like what I continuously advise guys to avoid. Too many still persist with this frenetic gifting when meeting a gal and engaging in the dating process in an effort to not being perceived as "greedy" and end up setting an unrealistic expectation for the future, be it themselves or other western guys in the gal's future.

Don't do it unless it is your normal action to buy gifts, give flowers, always eat in restaurants, take exotic vacations, etc. Many just don't seem to understand the "training" they are giving the lady.

[GQBlues]

With the fun we had together, I must admit, I am a bit confused. Maybe it is a culture difference, but to my understanding, a true Russian or Ukrainian woman would never ask a man to buy her many gifts, would they?

Let's put things in perspective first...did you get laid or did you go blue? 

But seriously, you did fine. For future reference, never chalk up bad behavior to cultural differences. In this instance, expecting you to buy things for her is bad behavior. But you held your instinct intact and didn't give in to what is usually a tough situation for many guys. Either way, I estimate you were out at least $2,500.00, and that's with you being greedy. 

Curious though, she wasn't just prettier in person than you thought she is in her pic, but even gorgeous to boot. She's nice and both of you had fun and a great time together..why isn't there a future? Was it all about because of her taste to shop?

[GoodOlBoy]

I suspect from your description of her behavior she has had "contact" with other WM or EM and expected you to "behave" in a certain manner. (desperate)
It sounds like you did all the right things.
Let her go.

GOB

[Aloe]

I suspect from your description of her behavior she has had "contact" with other WM or EM and expected you to "behave" in a certain manner. (desperate)
It sounds like you did all the right things.
Let her go.

GOB

It sounds like she has had contact with russian men In Russia when a man is with a woman, he is expected to pay for everything. Thinking back, i realize when i met a guy, and we were buying something, like in a pharmacy, i give the item to the sales person, they say the price, i remember looking at the guy. He did hesitate, i guess he didn't know he's expected to pay But that's in a pharmacy. Pulling someone into a shopping mall(during first meeting) and then expecting them to pay strikes me as ill behavior.
But i must add, it depends on how she is perceiving you. If she thinks you two are in a relationship, then your not paying for her is certainly frustrating. I think first meeting (albeit lasting 2 weeks) is more like a prolonged first date, you can't expect to take a man on shopping sprees and him pay for it. However when i perceive being in a relationship with a man (2nd meeting and afterwards), then that is totally expected that he pays for everything, including shopping. Although i've never taken anyone to any shopping malls on any meetings, first, second or third, but if i did, then i'd expect him to pay (except 1st meeting)

[Patagonie]

It sounds like she has had contact with russian men In Russia when a man is with a woman, he is expected to pay for everything. Thinking back, i realize when i met a guy, and we were buying something, like in a pharmacy, i give the item to the sales person, they say the price, i remember looking at the guy. He did hesitate, i guess he didn't know he's expected to pay But that's in a pharmacy. Pulling someone into a shopping mall(during first meeting) and then expecting them to pay strikes me as ill behavior.
But i must add, it depends on how she is perceiving you. If she thinks you two are in a relationship, then your not paying for her is certainly frustrating. I think first meeting (albeit lasting 2 weeks) is more like a prolonged first date, you can't expect to take a man on shopping sprees and him pay for it. However when i perceive being in a relationship with a man (2nd meeting and afterwards), then that is totally expected that he pays for everything, including shopping. Although i've never taken anyone to any shopping malls on any meetings, first, second or third, but if i did, then i'd expect him to pay (except 1st meeting)

Aloe what do you mean exactly "by being in a relationship with a man" ?

[Mike78]

So she has at least $5k in the bank and cannot afford $670 for an airfare?? Hmmm... I have a 26 yo Slovakian girl coming this Sunday for 3 weeks and she bought her airfare by herself. We will do some traveling (roadtrip around Southwest) and I'll probably have to pay for most (or all) of it. Which is fine, as I know I make much more money than her. But there's no way in hell I'd buy her the airfare. Let the woman show that she's willing to sacrifice something as well...she'll appreciate you more that way.

[jdaco70]

Yeah, kind of what I thought. Of course, I covered her airfare, dining, and expenses of the trip as a whole. It was a fun time regardless, just the whole expectation of gift buying is what threw me off. It was the first time we met, so my thoughts were that this whole trip was a matter of us seeing how we actually get along, and if anything long term can come with it. It just got to the point where I couldnt help but feel like I was being used. Thats when I basically clammed up.

We have had some conversations about it afterwards, and she still maintains that I should be paying for everything, what seems like to maintain her lifestyle there even, she states that this is how they do it there, it is the european culture. When I questioned her reasoning behind this, as in, is true love measured off what material items you get?, she just got very angry, and basically tried to insult me, and make me feel guilty, also told me to find a village girl. haha.  I was shocked,  It was apparant to me, that her love is based off material items,  and what I can buy for her. Anyhow, she is definately not what I want nor expected.  So.... moving on.....NEXT!! 

P.S. I have read about the so-called Professional Daters? Maybe she is the new and improved version? Coming to a home near you!!

[GQBlues]

We have had some conversations about it afterwards, and she still maintains that I should be paying for everything, what seems like to maintain her lifestyle there even, she states that this is how they do it there, it is the european culture. When I questioned her reasoning behind this, as in, is true love measured off what material items you get?, she just got very angry, and basically tried to insult me, and make me feel guilty, also told me to find a village girl. haha.  I was shocked,....

Good for you, man. You seem like someone with a good perspective in how to handle these types of women. But don't be shocked by women like this because the truth is there are men who do in fact ride that type of approach in their dealings in FSU. One good example of that is the 'Judge Judy' thread below. The guy spent 45K and now he's in tears.

Better luck with the next one...

[jdaco70]

The way I look at it is this.... Of course, you have to show that you can support her, financially, but at the end of the day, It shouldnt be all about the money, and I dont even mind spending money on a lady, I am very generous, so long as it is for the right reasons. Last thing I want, is to get into a relationship with a lady based on all the wrong reasons, and then end up in a divorce later on down the road.

[tim 360]

The way I look at it is this.... Of course, you have to show that you can support her, financially, but at the end of the day, It shouldnt be all about the money, and I dont even mind spending money on a lady, I am very generous, so long as it is for the right reasons. Last thing I want, is to get into a relationship with a lady based on all the wrong reasons, and then end up in a divorce later on down the road.

Good idea to move on after paying for her vaca and she wanted more and more.  I have a feeling she would have had you buy her new clothes etc everyday if she could swing you there.  I've known a few Russian guys over here on short biz visas and I was absolutely amazed at how much money they would spend here buying gifts for their drop dead gorgeous girlfreinds back in Russia.  I'd tell them they were spending way too much and they'd tell me I just don't understand their country or their girlfriends.  They would tell me they had to spend that much on gifts if they wanted to keep their girlfriends because plenty of other guys there would...if they didn't.  I saw photos of their girlfriends and they were stunning.  But these young (25+ age) guys would spend their last dollar on gifts for their girl.  I think for some girls--a lot of gifts are expected.

[Faux Pas]

The way I look at it is this.... Of course, you have to show that you can support her, financially, but at the end of the day, It shouldnt be all about the money, and I dont even mind spending money on a lady, I am very generous, so long as it is for the right reasons. Last thing I want, is to get into a relationship with a lady based on all the wrong reasons, and then end up in a divorce later on down the road.

I echo what these other guys are saying but to add; it's not about money, at all. Obviously to her it is which is an excellent indication you should chalk her up as a learning experience and kick her to the curb as I believe you have done. Yes you can expect to pay for things with FSUW. Hell you can expect to pay for things with an AW too but, any woman looking to get through your wallet like schit through a goose is not a woman worthy of marriage, IMHO.

[ECOCKS]

LOL - so much for the girls with visas being a fundamental change in the equation.

You're well-rid of this one. Spend some time searching and qualifying, then build a relationship. As more and more guys are discovering, shorting the face-time in an effort to save money is a prelude to a train-wreck.

[SomeGuy]

The way I look at it is this.... Of course, you have to show that you can support her, financially, but at the end of the day, It shouldnt be all about the money, and I dont even mind spending money on a lady, I am very generous, so long as it is for the right reasons. Last thing I want, is to get into a relationship with a lady based on all the wrong reasons, and then end up in a divorce later on down the road.

Good call.  Call it a learning experience and move on.  It is by no means the norm, as many of the experienced and married guys can attest to.  Perhaps her last boyfriends had quite a bit of cash, or she's simply spoiled or trying to get what she can, but either way, it doesn't seem like a good fit.  My wife makes me answer if we really need something on most purchases over $20 or so, including those for herself.  That hasn't changed during dating nor marriage.

Keep looking, try to pick out someone more compatible with your own spending habits and expectations before the meeting; that may not always be possible, but maybe it's something to pay a little more attention to prior to meeting. 

[Daveman]

...Yes you can expect to pay for things with FSUW. Hell you can expect to pay for things with an AW too but, any woman looking to get through your wallet like schit through a goose is not a woman worthy of marriage, IMHO.

Yep. And I think most of us thoroughly enjoy doing and/or buying nice, wonderful, sometimes expensive things/surprises for someone we care about.  It's the attitude of a woman which makes or kills the desire to give. 

[Al_C]

My fiance produced her travel visa before I bought her a ticket to visit me.  I never asked for it; she just felt that out of respect for me, I should be able to see a document that I am depending on.  So don't read too far into that.

You can get her an e-ticket that she can use only on a specific flight, and you will no doubt pick her up at the airport.  So there is not really much potential here for things to go wrong.

Good luck to you.

[GoodOlBoy]

.....you will no doubt pick her up at the airport.

Being on time, I would hope.

GOB